Polarized opinion on pope fills London streets

“The Hyde Park event was a vigil service to prepare for tomorrow’s beatification of Newman, a great 19th century theologian, apologist, and Anglican convert from Catholicism“.

Mr. John L Allen Jr., I imagine it might just be more appropriate that Cardinal John Henry Newman be beatified by the Queen of England or at least by the Bishop of Canterbury, since as you say he was an “Anglican convert from Catholicism.”

For the rest, I enjoy reading your stuff.

Justiniano de Managua

"VatiCAN'T!"
And people laughed at Sinead O'Connor in 1982.
http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253...

I presume it is a typographical error but Newman was not an "Anglican convert from Catholicism", his journey was from Anglicanism to Catholicism! It should encourage those who today face the same challenges to their faith in the sense of the laity that he did in the aftermath of Vatican I, that he hae been validated by the teaching of Vatican II and his current beatification.
Bill Keane

As the Pope himself said, “In our own time, the price to be paid for fidelity to the Gospel is no longer being hanged, drawn and quartered, but it often involves being dismissed out of hand, ridiculed, or parodied."

10,000-15,000 "secularists and atheists, gay rights activists, victims of sex abuse and others" protesting compared to 80,000 Catholics and non-Catholics there to see and cheer on the Pope doesn't sound particularly alarming to me. I would prefer they protest than be apathetic. This shows that what the Pope is doing is actually working, for it is forcing people to actually decide for or against the Church. The Church has always had opposition. I'll take someone who honestly stands apart from the Church over someone who disagrees and stays in anyway any day of the week. At least the former is intellectually honest.

Those who live in and by the truth instinctively recognize that women represent more than 50% of the population, offer a meaningful presence, and should not be treated as second class citizens in the Catholic Church.

There remains the total disconnect of this pope from reality. It's as if he lives in a "Vatican world" that is unaware of the truths around him. You may look at this reality as either prophetic or ignorant. Joseph Ratzinger grasps at straws to somehow make his church relevant in the society of today which rightly understands that religion is purely a personal matter and should not influence public policy other than in the votes of religious people. The catholic church for hundreds of years has used this argument of divine right to control not only its members but non-catholics as well. I am happy that those days are finally coming to an end.

Last year, I formally covreted to Catholicism. Stories like the protest against the Pope and the Church generally confirm my feelings about the decision. Anything the world hates like this must have something going for it.

"The Hyde Park event was a vigil service to prepare for tomorrow’s beatification of Newman, a great 19th century theologian, apologist, and Anglican convert from Catholicism."

Newman is convert to Catholicism.

I have some idea of what our pope is suffering. He is hated and maligned by many and must feel very alone. I reach out to him in his suffering because it is so like that of Christ's. People in my neighborhood call me a saint and then say that they want me out of my home. I do not fit in and they call me names and slander me. No one in this town loves me or cares about me, so I know what it means to go without love. I am the pope's friend on Facebook and I will write giving him my support and loving care. God bless him for standing up for what is right in the face of such opposition!

"The turnout exceeded organizers’ expectations and straining the resources of the police on hand, who clearly expected a smaller group."

You are kidding, aren't you? On both counts?

there was a severe risk the 'protestthepope' gang would be outnumbered by the police deputed to attend their demonstration. If the attendance exceeded the organisers' expectations, then they have been fiercely backpedalling from tehir stance only a few days ago, when it was clear they were expecting a mass demonstration.

The protestors were outnumbered AT LEAST 10 to one by supporters, lining the route and attending the scheduled events.

The Beatification Mass was attended by 55,000, who waited in a muddy field in Birmingham for up to 12 hours for the Pope to appear. The numbers for the Mass can be verified, as admission was by ticket only - at a cost of £25 a head. The numbers attending the protest rally are open to debate - some police sources say no more than 5,000, the organisers revised their original estimate of 10,000 upwards and were claiming 20,000 by Sunday morning. No-one was buying - the TV news reported their claim but the newscasters could hardly keep a straight face.

The protestors' event was free for all, held at weekend and in London, in the heart of the protestthepope support base. The turnout was pathetic - really, quite laughable. It was embarrassingly small. I tell you, 15,000 people in Hyde Park would not even be noticed. The sound system was noticed, because it was designed for a much, much larger crowd. It had had massive publicity, its leaders and prominent supporters had been interviewed ad nauseam - they had got far far more advance publicity than the Catholic Church, whose spokespeople barely had a chance to open their mouths before they were interrupted, diverted and moved on from. Huge publicity, all the advantages of assumptions of anti-pope sentiment - and they managed 20,000 (their own claim - highly disputable) at BEST? In a city of 7.5 million? In a country of 60 million? Risible.

What has happened is that one of the prominent supporters of the 'protestthtepope' organisation, Peter Tatchell, who has been calling for the Vatican to release so-called 'secret records' about clerical sex abuse has seen his past come back to haunt him. His calls for the age of sexual consent to be lowered and claims that relationships between adults and children as young as 9 could be 'fulfilling and liberating' have been brought to people's attention again. As he is so keen on this whole affair to be cleaned up and brought to a conclusion, one hopes he will set an example and tell pass on to the police the names of the people he claims he knows who have engaged in this illegal pederasty. If he doesn't then he will be exposed as nothing more than another canting hypocrite.

I am surprised to read this article in a supposed Catholic publication. YOur reporter has greatly exaggerated the size and impact o fht 'anit' demonstration. The Pope's visit has been generally very well received - far better than anyone had hoped. His public pronouncements and homilies have struck chords across the demographic and political spectrum. It is not an exaggeration to say it has been an unforeseen triumph. Whether it will be the spark that reignites spirituality and religious participation in the UK remains to be seen but don't be surprised if it gets people thinking.

It was truly remarkable, for anyone who was here and watching, even on TV. From reading this article, that number might not inlude your correspondent.

Polarized? Have you read ncr today? That is really polarized, if not worse.

Police numbers put the protestors at between 2,000-3,000. Where did you get your figures. Chanel 4 or the BBC I presume. This site is about as Catholic as either of those.

I don't understand how words ringing so true just hit the ground and go nowhere.
"Those who live in and by the truth instinctly recognize what is false and, precisley as false, inimical to beauty and goodness which accompany the beauty of truth".
Where are these words going, this is referring to a deep spiritual awakening that is definately not attributed to any defining actions and just dragged along because they sound good and therefore soon forgotten.
What a pity.

Congratulations!

The protestthepope website is quoting NCR as an authoritative voice and is pleased to reproduce the phrase from John Allen's blog"...one of the largest protests against a pope in modern history."

I suppose you must be delighted to find yourselves so warmly embraced by, among others, OutRage!, headed by Mr Tatchell, which has a history of campaigning for abolition of the age of consent, thus opening up opportunities for child prostitution and legalised pedophilia (hypocritical, I know, but there you go). Or perhaps even more by such as the 'Liverpool Humanist Group'; the Richmond-upon-Thames LBGT Group (I believe they cover all of Richmond, not just a bit of it); Southall Black Sisters (Southall is a suburb of London); Woment Against Fundamentalism (doesn't include all women, just those against fundamentalism - and not even all of them, tbh); and, of course, Atheism UK.

Who was it who said 'you shall know them by the company they keep'? When it comes to being associated with that rag-bag of tiny special interest groups, sooner you than me.

"At roughly the same time that some 80,000 pumped-up youth thronged Hyde Park for a prayer vigil with Benedict XVI, an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 secularists and atheists, gay rights activists, victims of sex abuse and others marched through the city for a “Protest the Pope!” rally."

I understand B16 had similar experiences at "pumped up" youth rallies as a young boy. The moral being that only after these young grow up, mature, and form their own conscience will they know whether they were sold a bill of goods.

I wonder how many of the "others" protesting were Catholics who would not classify themselves among the listed groups, but who are fed up with the stonewalling on releasing pediphile records and the loss of subsidiarity in the treatment of their their own bishops by the Vatican as was so blatantly exposed with the rejection of the 1998 ICEL proposed missal followed by the hijacking of the entire process by JP2's Vatican.

The BBC News reported only 5000 persons demonstrated against the visit of the Holoy Father. By the time he reached Birmingham they had petered out to a few tens. Britain is not as secular as some would like us have believe.

Your comparison of the estimated number of protesters with the number of people in Hyde Park for the prayer vigil with the Holy Father omits to mention the 200,000+ (police figures) lining his route to the park. This was a phenomenal turnout, given that the Popemobile route was only publicised days before the event, in contrast with the protest, which had been planned for weeks.

Given the outrageous difficulties faced by most Catholics (and anyone else who might have been interested)- resulting from over-the-top security arrangements completely out of proportion to other papal journeys - in obtaining tickets to any of the papal events, the attendance was very good, and the joyous atmosphere was a direct response to the joy the Holy Father radiates. At last the British public has had the opportunity to see the real Pope Benedict, rather than the one portrayed by media cliches, and they clearly liked what they saw and heard.