Commissioner seen as likely outcome of Legionary investigation

Can anything good come from this bad seed?
Probably not.....
suppress the order, religious and lay, and have them find a home in one of the long established Orders.... we don't need anymore new orders!

Appointing a 78 year old Vatican commissioner would be as smart as appointing a 12 year old. For the most part, this organization is a cult and should be disbanded so that all these people can go home, recover, and join the real Catholic church instead of the parallel and corrupt church that exists today. Anything less of disbanding is a tragedy for the Catholic church and will leave thousands of Catholics faithless.

Once again The VATICAN has not got the GUTS to CUT OFF THE INFESTING CANCER that is eating away the WHOLE BODY of the KINGDOM OF GOD.
ANOTHER FLAW and WEAKNESS in the Roman Catholic Church.

A bewildered Catholic.
13.4.2010

The Legionaries need to be purified. Their leadership needs to be sacked. Everyone who had a personal relationship with Maciel needs to go. Anything less will be a cheap, uneffective band aid.

It's hard to fathom how Cardinal Rode could have desired the awarding a "certificate of good conduct" to the Legionnaires of Christ while pursuing zealously American Catholic sisters for not wearing habits and interpreting Vatican II differently than he does.

Is everything always about finding compromises? Is the are of living in the truth to let good men cover wickedness without its proper expiation? If principles of the faith and truth are our guide, then there is no such thing as "reform" of an evil founding and founder. Dissolution or total re-foundation, please! There is no need to be taken in by the puppy-eyed LCs showing how good and righteous they have been in it all.

The cult-like following of Maciel, a very sick and dangerous and self-absorbed man, cannot be "reformed". God forgive everyone involved in this abusive set-up. The Legion must be suppressed. Benedict needs to listen to us now, and not be swayed by trying to do a kindness when in fact the kindest thing is to cut it out. Those who believed in Maciel must be given help to move out in healthier lives.

You suggest that three men will have influence in this decision: Bertone, Rode, Levada.

Given each of these three's history with sexual abuse, current misleading statements, or Rode's on admittted bias - nothing significant can happen. Bertone's latest public statement - he needs to be retired immediately
Rode - he has already embarrassed the church with his religious sisters' investigation - he needs to be retired
Levada - his track record with sexual abuse; his ties to current powerful figures in the curia - he needs to excuse himself if not find another job.

You do not write or examine reasons for why this community should continue - there is ample history for total suppression especially given the cult like nature of this community; its sordid history, etc.

The Legion is a cult based on a lie perpetrated by a fraud. I leave it to the theologians to decide what good can come of this. However, I do know from history that it cannot be allowed to continue with any of the current leadership at the helm. They must be swept away, unfortunately some good with the many tainted, and a fresh start initiated. Otherwise, the True Believers will lay in wait for years, maybe decades, and then start to rebuild Maciel's image and legacy. Time and money will work on their side. That must not be allowed to happen.
By the way, have they told the seminarians the truth about Maciel yet? Last I heard, they were kept from any contact with the outside world and still believed in Maciel as a living saint.
Finally, look at Opus Dei, Divine Mercy, and all the other secretive, personality cults that have cropped up in the Church over the recent years. Look at them NOW less in several years we ask ourselves, "Why didn't we check them out when we had the chance?"

From my time with the Legionaries I can say that much of the spirituality is tied up with Fr. Maciel, with secrecy, and a host of other bad things. Most of the spiritual reading is from books he supposedly penned. Everyone constantly speaks of Nuestro Padre and his supposedly saintly life, even now, I hear. Their recruiting practices are oppressive - many men where told flat out that it was the will of God for them to join the order after being invited to 'come for a visit' with a friend they had there. Plus, one does not discern a vocation with the Legion, they discern for you! Then there is the issue of money. When I was in Connecticut they told everyone that the Legion was very poor and they could not afford much. We begged for out dated food from a grocery supplier. I could go on, but the point is that the culture is corrupt! I am not sure how a commissioner would be able to reform that.

Dissolve the order, religious and lay and see who finds a home. Dispose of their assets in good works.

Did I really just read that the same Cardinal Rode who is behind the inverstigation of th Women Religius of the the USA, SUPPORTS the current Leadership of the Legionaries???? In fairness, the article states, this support was voiced "at an early stage in the process." I wonder how he feels about voicing his support now!

Yes, indeed, a commissioner should be appointed. But the Vatican should have nothing to do with the appointment or the direction the order should take.

The lay and clergy attached to the Legionaries should spend the rest of their working and praying lives to amend for the sins of their founder and those who covered for him and others like him. I think the order should be re-dedicated to the care of survivors of abuse. The Legionaries money and properties should be turned over to the survivors.

Wouldn't it be smarter to have the investigation first before the sentence is passed?

It sounds as if the Legionary's financial beneficiaries don't want the goose that has been laying lots of golden eggs to disappear. Largesse has it's benefits!

It looks to me like they are going to have the fox guard the hen house.

Gosh - how could John Allen forget to mention the vast wealth of the Legionaries and their generous "charity" to Vatican officials over the years. Surely those "influence" coupons can now be redeemed to enable this cult to continue after a pious mea culpa. To suggest that the likes of Cardinal Rode might be involved in any decision about the future of this group would only guarantee poor Benedict eternal scorn and disbelief.

Anonymous obviously doesn't know any Legionaries; otherwise he/she would know that good fruit has indeed come from this "bad seed." I think I remember Jesus saying that a tree is known by its fruit... not the seed. The fruit of the Legion is holiness, growth, evangelization, peace, and a dramatic increase in vocations.

Looks like God can turn bad things into good after all!

P.S. Read your Bible.

Am I reading this correctly, the same Cardinal Rode who is conducting the women religous investigation, wheren no criminal actions have occured is saying that he hopes to declare the leadership of this order to be of "Good Conduct"? I am a simple lay person who does not know the details of the case but it seems from what I have read concerning these investigations Cardinal Rode is conducting that it may be wise to reflect on the messages and examples we all heard during Holy Week and then lenten season concerning condeming one who has comitted no crime and allowing the criminal to go free because of fear of loss of power or control by those in power. The women religous seem to be on trial because of what they say and do in public places and with full notification to the vatican but this order whose leadserhip committed criminal offenses behind closed doors and cover ups is to be set free. I am having a difficult time understanding how any leader of a Christian Church can justify these actions. Again I am a simple lay person so I hope I am missing some vital information that would make this make some sense.

Interesting potential candidates to be involved in “reforming” the LC.     We now know that prelates of all stripes were ‘on the take’ with Maciel in the Vatican,   and they have a vested personal interest in the outcome for the LC and its deep monetary pockets.     The money trail alone should rule out the vast majority of Cardinal VIPs,   perhaps all of them.
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Cardinal José Saraiva Martins is a most peculiar choice for heading up LC scandal clean-up — his claim to fame being that of a very vocal defender of the Vatican’s indefensible mismanagement of clergy sexual abuse — specifically that it was/is all a grand “conspiracy” against the Vatican and the Pope,   whom he believes to be the “real victims”.     Among his various forays in the media:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/27/dan-brown-wouldnt-in...
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Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone,   also well-invested in a good outcome for the LC,   was off this week in Chile publicly (and wrongly!) scapegoating ‘homosexuals and liberals’ for the sexual abuse of minors among clergy…   and of course (in his mind) the prelates were entirely innocent of wrong-doing in coddling predator sociopaths,   including Maciel.
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Cardinal William Levada is awash in his own scandal baggage and enabling from his archbishop days in the United States.
http://www.mgr.org/LevadaTrajectory-Details.html
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Cardinal Franc Rodé has his own very personal and financial ‘investment’ in giving the LC a “certificate of good conduct”.     This has the appearance of foxes with multiple agendas organized to whitewash the henhouse.
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The Vatican continues to thrive in some alternate reality.     The ‘Peter Principle’ lives on as prelates rise to their highest level of incompetence (and greed).     The Catholic faithful don't expect human perfection among leadership,   but we do expect actual competence,   authenticity   and   integrity.

Bertone, Levada and Rode? What an unholy trinity to be involved in coping with the unholy doings of Maciel!

Just where was Maciel sent to "live a life of prayer and penance"? Was it some desert island? Why was he not defrocked, but permitted to live out his life as an ordained priest? Could it be that he was too important a figure who brought untold amounts of wealth to the Vatican?

I note cardinal Rode wants to give the congregation a "certificate of good conduct". I hope he does the same for the congregations of American women religious he is investigating. Do we have some 'good old boy' stuff going on?

I certainly wouldn't pick either Rode (he can be bought off with rich gifts)
or Levada (who doesn't exactly have a clean slate himself).

Have Mother Millea oversee them---she'll keep 'em straight.

It boggles the mind . . .
I wonder how many plump envelopes Rode has received from Maciel over the years.
I wonder how many more plump envelopes he is anticipating.
I wonder why the American Sisters are investigated by Rode while that same Rode is not only giving a pass to, but actually SUPPORTING this satanic cult of personality hatched by a pedophile priest who supposedly had taken vows of celibacy and then had spawned over the years several children by several women.

To quote Mr. Welch: ". . . Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

Admittedly, there are probably many good people with admirable intentions among the members; however, a cult of personality that demands vows never to criticize the collar-in-charge is far, far from the mandate of Christ. The good people who followed Maciel's Siren song without descending to his level can surely continue in their good works, but the organization must be abolished.

START STORMING HEAVEN, DENVER:
"Pope Benedict XVI may appoint a special “commissioner” to lead the order through a period a reform."
With any luck, and a whole lot of prayer, it will be another case of "PROMOVERE AD REMOVERE" (Latin for MOVE 'EM UP, MOVE 'EM OUT!) for YOUR local ordinary.

Suppress the Legion and retire ALL the cardinals and bishops who support them,
especially those who accepted illicit gratuities from them.

Spiritual direction is about discernment. Discerning what is evil and rejecting it. Learning to do the good. Washing your hands from a bribe.

Are we about the business of a just and merciful kingdom? Or are we about, Power, lust, greed, a show of godliness on the outside, Inside full of dead mens bones. Have we victimized and then calumniated the victims?

What ,"Our Father's", House does with this organization will tell us alot about who we are and where we are being directed to.

It will be interesting to see how Benedict balances the church's interests. What does he view as more important:

(1) demonstrating that church is finally beginning to get serious about protecting minors from sexual abuse ?

OR

(2) preserving an order that raised a lot of money (often used for the protection of evil) and brought many MEN into the priesthood ?

My sister and several friends are members of Regnum Christi and although I have seen good programs and orthodox teachings come from the Legionaries, in my close observation and opinion, this group should be abolished.

There is a type of elitism abut it. They have a history of recruiting the wealthy and influential and then sucking as much money and time from them as they can. People are pressured to give more and more of both. They also are still not admitting, on a local and individual level, that their founder used their money and good will to live a life of luxury and immorality while expecting unquestioned obedience from all followers. That secrecy which seems cultlike is still pervasive.

This mindset so permeates the organization, it would be hard to imagine... as above... "anything good coming from this bad seed."

"suppress the order, religious and lay, and have them find a home in one of the long established Orders.... we don't need anymore new orders!"

They said the same thing about the Franciscans... Yeah, Maciel was a fruitcake, but the Legion in general does the Church a great service. The order is filled with wonderful priests and laypeople, who work very hard to bolster and spread the faith. It just needs better leadership. Much good has somehow already come from this not just bad, but horrible seed. The Lord does indeed work in strange ways.

I, for one, believe that the NYT's smear campaign of this Easter was explicitly designed to intimidate the pope into giving the Legionaries a pass. Carlos Slim saved the NYT from going out of business, and I think he called in his marker.

"Nice reputation you've got there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it..."

I can only pray that Benedict will be angered enough to recognize that he has an obligation to protect his flock from these wolves.

It's time for Benedict to step down --- it's time to elect a leader! A leader with wisdom!!

i had a fine year as an exchange student in one of the Legionnaires' universities in Mexico City -- great families sent their kids there, no "cult" atmosphere, govt officials & working professionals teaching our classes. i even got to be altar boy for Padre Maciel one Easter, considered a really big deal (no, he didn't hit on me.)

that any man in this day & age could create such a vast empire of schools & universities & churches & seminaries has to be considered amazing by any standard, so i suppose it's no surprise that he had huge appetites for other things... it's a true shame that he caused so much pain.

but don't throw the baby out with the dirty water: the Legionnaires have taught & inspired a lot of good. let's now hope that the contradictory lessons of Padre Maciel are used as an illuminating teaching opportunity for all involved.

i do not think that the vast majority of the legion who are good people and do good works should be punished twice. if saint ignatius loyola were found to be an evil person would all the good work of the Jesuits be tainted NO!! do not punish the decent people who have been punished already. appoint the outside leader and let the legion flourish. Do not let Macial's inner cirlce run it however.

Where by in addition might anyone get that sort of data designed in a real ideal way