65 million reasons to be thankful

My bad... I thought this article was going to be about being thankful about things that are truly Catholic such as the Eucharist, our Liturgy, Jesus Christ, the Saints, Our Mother Mary, the Rosary, the Holy Trinity, and many more.

I can't imagine ever being thankful for people that take it upon themselves to decide what is Good and Evil (i.e. Adam and Eve).

It is because of articles like this that I won't subscribe to NCR. I don't want in any way to support with my money the alternative magisterium proposed by overly self-confident--and sadly over-assimilated--northeast and left coast "catholics".

Wonderfully hopeful article to those who struggle with belonging to a church which is fighting to regain top down dominance. I guess the message is an affirmation that the Holy Spirit is alive and inspiring Her people from the bottom up. Hopefully those at the top will see that real morality is accomplished one person at a time, the model that Jesus used, not what happened after his church set up headquarters in Rome.

Gay marriage has been defeated everywhere it has been put to a vote, despite you finding "majorities" supporting it. What you seem to mean by "welcoming Catholic Church" is also disturbing in that you seem to mean one that will look the other way when people are living sinful lifestyles.

Our hierarchy has been exhibiting profoundly partisan, anti-Gospel values. The idea of the bishops spending ANY money on this-ESPECIALLY in this economy when there are so many fundamental needs, like food, shelter and healthcare, going unmet is evidence that my Catholic Church is being led into sin. "Follow the smoke of homophobia, and inevitably you will find the fire of unconscious, unintegrated, homosexuality." Disgusting.

Deeply disappointing to discover my local US diocese in Las Cruces through in even a token $200, when our families are in such great need.

Even more shocking are the tens of thousands of dollars sent from Phoenix, where families are being ripped apart by the "toughest sheriff in America" and where so many suffer from the coming cold, and homelessness, and hunger. Fifty thousand dollars could have bought a lot of little kids a lot of winter coats in that cold high desert; instead all of that money goes to Maine, where children also suffer deep poverty and extreme cold and hunger, unknown.

Can't you just hear the old boys having what lawyers call a pissing contest claiming I am more Catholic than you because I wasted more thousands of diocesan dollars to this lobbyist will-o'the-wisp? Philadelphia also coughed up fifty thousand dollars instead of helping the homeless, jobless, families suffering there this winter.

Diocesan dollars wasted in this way hurts heterosexual families as well as those seeking legal protection at probate court.

See? There IS equity! Everyone gets hurt!

What would Jesus do?

Remember the parable of the buried talents. Jesus teaches how several stewards handled money left in their care. Some heard from the Master for their wise handling of what was left in their care: "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'"

Please see the Reverend Father John Dear SJ's excellent and edifying commentary upon this text over at

www.fatherjohndear.org/sermons_homilies/welldoneservant.html

What will the Master say to these hierarchical stewards who answer, "No. I did not give it to the poor. Not to peace. I gave it to political lobbyists!"

I want to commend Nicole Sotelo for her insightful statement. I am one of those 65,000,000 Catholics (yes, even one of the Pre-Vatican II generation) who believe that our Catholic-formed consciences are far better guides to Catholic and Christian morality than the views of our narrow minded bishops, whose only interest is retaining their own power -- a power, by the way, which allowed them to continue the sexual abuse of our children by Catholic priests for the better part of the last half century.

I have long since recognized that Our Blessed Lord would not act the way the bishops are acting -- that WE are the true followers of Jesus, not the bishops. So with Nicole, I too express my gratitude for the true Catholics who follow Jesus. God bless us all and God help us to remake our society to make it more in conformity to The Divine Plan.

The writer's reasoning is specious at best. The bishops are not "struggling to promote their narrow vision of marriage." They are vigorously promoting their agenda with impunity and with the financial support of the 65 million Catholics to whom the article refers. Most important is the fact that there are no authoritative Catholic voices publicly admonishing them. And there is not a shred of evidence that the bishops' pronouncement doesn't reflect the Church's institutional stance. Quite the contrary, it is the Church's institutional stance at the highest level.

Ms. Sotelo is kidding herself if she thinks her own disagreement and tepid criticism provide any sort of meaningful counterweight to what the bishops are doing. Perhaps the institution will someday reflect the more enlightened views of the laity. But how long will that take if it happens at all? And what about the damage that's done by the institution and its leaders in the meantime? And, by the way, are there examples Ms. Soleto might cite about instances where the Church changed its institutional position to reflect more progressive values of the people in the pews?

She can rationalize however much she wants but as long as she is a Catholic, the values of the Church as expressed by its bishops are the values she is ultimately supporting.

Thank you for the perspective you offer.
As I scan the list of donors, I once more am glad to be in the diocese of Rochester, NY.

I am still always amazed, as this article shows, that when it comes to matters of trust, trust the young people! How anyone could be opposed to people in love making love, confounds me. I am convinced that the Jesus I know, looks at our hearts and not our genitals! May God help those entrapped in their age and morbund concepts and bless those with open minds.

Excellent!!! Imagine being one of the 258 bishops --- with very little respect!

Chuck in Minneapolis

"Massachusetts, the first state to legalize same-gender marriage, was recently found to have the lowest divorce rate of any state!"

An interesting fact, but one that fails to prove anything. Take a course in logic.

"The majority of Catholics believe that the final moral authority on beliefs about gays and lesbians rests not with the bishops, but with their own conscience."

I suppose one could then question whether that "majority" is even Catholic at all.

"When one stops gazing only at the 258 active Catholic bishops, but instead takes a good look at the approximately 65 million Catholics in the United States and their growing acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, there emerges much hope for the future of our church and society."

When one stops following Jesus of Nazareth and His Church, but instead takes a good look at mammon, there emerges much sadness for the future of our church and society.

I do believe that we as Christians need to break down walls of injustice, even those committed against homosexuals. We as Catholics do need to accept and love all people. As Catholics though we accept them for the fact that they are created in the image of God, not because they are "lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender." When I see editorials like this I understand that the author cares, but all they are going to do is create more harm.

Any Catholic bishop who has raised money to defeat equal rights for LGBT human beings should be investigated by the IRS for crossing over the line of separation of church and state. The bishops are actively campaigning for removal of BASIC rights of people who are or are not Catholics. This should lead to a loss of TAX EXEMPT status. If a few cases go to the courts and win, it could radically change the tune these right wing bishops are singing. Bigotry, hatred and disenfranchisement are the key elements behind the bishop's actions to prevent marriage equality. These are the opposite of the love Christ expressed for all of us. The cult like following of reactionary right wingers in the Catholic Church is mirrored in the Protestant Fundamentalist Churches like those of Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell. The same kind of thinking and the same hate filled and violent motives. Most, but not all Catholic bishops do not know how to exercise pastoral care to human beings who come from the LGBT community. This is a pathetic indictment of the crop of hierarchy that John Paul and Benedict have created. They are talking heads for the Vatican line. There are always a few courageous bishops out there who stand up for what is fair and use good ethics but we all know that they are few in number. The corruption of the majority of the cardinals and bishops is so wide spread that the imperial model of the Latin Rite Churches is about to implode. Ignorance is no excuse for the unethical and violent behavior of the hierarchy. They must be taken on and I can think of no greater way to serve Christ and His Church than to drag them to Court and expose and prosecute them for their criminal behavior regarding the cover up of child sex abuse by clergy and some members of the hierarchy itself. They haven't spent a day behind bars in a prison for their crimes. This should also apply to their active campaign to cause great harm to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people by denial of equal rights under the law. Expose these hypocrites, the time for action is NOW.

Thank you for the link to the list of contributors. It is impossible to tell what it means about the dioceses or bishops that did not contribute, but it does provide an indication of where some orthodox Catholics can be found.

Civil marriage should be regulated by civil law, unbiased by religion.

If a couple wishes to have a religious ceremony & have their marriage recognized by a specific religion/denomination, then they should be able to do that following their civil marriage. Their choice, not an obligation.

Many countries do marriage contracts in this manner...

Marriage may be an outmoded as such...it only served to make sure that a man got control of the woman's financial/real estate assets...

As a straight Catholic male, I am so embarrassed that our archbishop, Joseph Kurtz, was the major drafter of the recent bishops' "pastoral" (lolol) on marriage.

He also donated personal money to the Maine bigotry initiative, not to mention authorizing archdiocesan funds to this shameful cause.

He ordered the installation/reinstallation of kneelers in Louisville archdiocesan churches (never mind that Jesus and his Jewish disciples would have stood at prayer).

Pope Bennie: If you're reading this thread, please --- I beseech you --- give this out-of-state hierarch a red hat and --- I beseech you further --- a "do nothing" job inside the bowels of the Vatican.

Thank you, sir.

God knows, Kurtz can only inflict more crap on the Catholics of Central Kentucky!

Nicole this is a very encouraging column in very discouraging times. Here in Phoenix, our bishop has contributed $50,000 to the Maine campaign against equality in marriage, and has signed the now infamous 'Manhattan Declaration'. Many of us pray that he will soon be made a Cardinal and sent
to Rome. There is immeasurable harm being done by all this within and outside the Church. God help us.

well, at least that diocesan money did not go into funding Rode's political inquisition of our Roman Catholic religious women . . .

There is nothing to be thankful for here. If one hopes in evil or the potential triumph of evil, not only does he not truly hope at all but if he know he is acting contrary to the will of God he is among the lowest of the low. It might give people the warm and fuzzies to play the "I'm OK, you're OK" game, but in the end everyone involved is sorely mistaken if they seek to cling to what appears to be good in the darkness rather than embrace what is truly good in the light.

In this case, It is a cause for shock and sorrow that people are losing the ability to realize equal respect for persons who are afflicted with terrible disorders as for those unafflicted does not mean that we need tom indeed we should NEVER, act in such a way as to normalize the impulses caused by such disorders.

Lord knows I have my own sins, but I fully expect that my sins be condemned as evil, I sure do. There is shame and sorrow for the pebbles and stones that weigh me down, because they make me less Christian, less truly human, every time I surrender to them. If every anyone tried to tell me my vices are not so bad, that would be a supreme act of unlove no matter how warm and fuzzy they made us both feel.

You wrote: "On Nov. 3, Maine suffered a profound setback in its march towards marriage equality for its state’s citizens."

That is a lie. What happened was that Maine failed in it's attempted lie to claim that any union not between a man and a woman could be a marriage. From the creation of the human race ("male and female He created them") only that union is the proper one, is possible as a "marriage."

What happened in Maine is simply that the bishops were succesful in defending the truth.

I am a new Catholic and would be very interested in knowing what these percentages are among practicing Catholics who attend Mass weekly, etc.

I don't know that including everyone who calls themselves "Catholic" is really honest, since many seem almost to see "Catholic" as an ethnicity (like Jews vs. Judaism).

It appears that the current crop of bishops are working overtime to make themselves irrelevant to the laity. We long for the generation of bishops who produced the pastorals on War and Peace and the Economy 30 years ago.

The information you have publicize is sad but thank you for helping us nderstand what the Bishops are doing. My question: where does the money come from? I contribute money to the Church to support the church's legitimate activities, mainly help to the poor. Certainly not to promote the bishop's narrow political views, just as not to pay out billions in the abuse cases where the bishop's shielded offenders.

How refreshing to look at the real faith of the beleivers and in contrast with the narrow view of apparachnics who use people money to promote objective that seem so far from the action of Jésus.

So what?

Divine revelation is not dictated by votes or popular opinion. Get over it.
You think statistics really move those of us Catholics who adhere to the Catholic faith in its entirety? You offer no theological or philosophical counter-arguments against the Catholic position. You merely play on emotional strings.

I do not believe in discrimination against gays. Honestly I care little about the gay marriage being accepted in society. The Church will not be permitting the sacrament of holy matrimony to be confered on gays. Its not about prejudice, it is about doing the will of God.

I also question what the word "pastoral" means to you. Apparently, and do correct me if I am wrong, a whole "do as you deem correct" attitude? Nicole, faith can not be something that is subjective and based on what one feels. If you know people who are gay or are themselves and have seen discrimination I am sorry. The CCC states that hatred of homosexuals is a sin. Yet please do understand that we Catholics cannot accept gay marriage for various theological and philosophical reasons.

Often when people look to them selves and their own understanding to discern God's will, The devil jumps in and grabs victory for himself to the hurt of the very people God is helping. I'm so sorry TPTB are trying to fight against a natural and harmless behavior that God really never condemned. Homosexuals do not pose a problem for the church the church poses a problem for innocent homosexuals who want to marry the one they love.
With the divorce rate as high as it is in the Christian Right,How dare they point the finger at Gay men and women? Glean up your own house first! Get the lumber out of your own eye, then you will be able to see what is causing such a disgraceful divorce rate among your own people. Tend to your own sins first.
Were you serving God when you condemned so many to burn at the stake for the heresy of believing the earth was round? How many *witches* did you burn who turned out to be harmless if crabby old women who had no one to protect them from the church. How many people did you condemn as heretics for believing The earth circled the sun?
Your reasoning is just as unsound and just as self serving now. Do you think God will miss your sin, Because you accuse others so vehemently?

I'm sad that Nicole Setelo writes as if she is the only Catholic with the correct understanding on this matter and that everyone with a different understanding is somehow, a dinosaur.
Nicole does not address any of the matters which the Church uses to explain its teachings on why same-sex people are excluded from marriage.
Gender.
The rights of the child for an environment in which to grow up, an environment that can naturally and adequately address all the psycho-sexual-spiritual-physical needs.
etc

Your article, Nicole, indicates that Catholics are growing up and realizing that they can make their own decisions by using their God-given gift called a conscience. As a married person, I agree that the new pastoral letter on marriage is lacking anything of real substance for married couples. I wonder what a pastoral letter on marriage would look like if the bishops actually confered with a wide variety of married Catholics and then draw on the wisdom of these couples to write about married life.

At this point I do not believe that the state should force any religious body to recognize same sex marriages.

But, as a woman very happily married to a man, it is beyond my comprehension how homosexual marriages or civil unions can in any way threaten heterosexual marriages.

If our U.S. Catholic bishops really want to support families, they should work toward an economic renaissance not only in this country but throughout the world.

jean save

I too am grateful to be Catholic and likewise fail to comprehend why the bishops focus on Marriage which they do not understand instead of focusing on priestly celibacy which they only pretend to be committed to. But they are very clever at trying to control the lives of the laity. BISHOPS SHOULD HEAL THEMSELVES. I do feel badly for the good priests for believing that they had to relinquish their own consciences in favor of their boss-bishop. Another form of mind control that bishops are so "clever" at.

It's a very sad commentary that Catholics would accept the notion of "gay marriage" which is an oxymoron. The Church clearly teaches that homosexual activity is immoral and intrinsically evil. The Church has always taught this truth. It is a part of the Catholic tradition and it cannot change. It doesn't matter what the poll numbers are about a majority of Catholics accepting something evil as this.

All that really matters is what God thinks on the matter. God has made his view known through Revelation and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. When the Catholic Church speaks on a matter of faith or morals through her Magisterium, Christ speaks.

The fact of the matter is that homosexual activity always constitutes the matter for mortal sin. Those "Catholics" who do not accept this truth sin against faith. And sins against faith remove the theological virtue of faith from the soul. Once this virtue is gone, the person is outside the Mystical Body of Christ from which vantage point he or she (in this case) cannot be saved.