Dioceses major contributors to repeal same-sex marriage

There is a bright line on this issue. The bishops and dioceses who supported the referendum stand on one side. Jesus stands on the other.

All this talk about how the dioceses were bankrupted by finally addressing pedophilia and its cover-up, and had to close their schools and parishes in those inner cities in order to survive...but, gee, they found some money somewhere again, didn't they? geesh, enough. They are full of the lies and the talk. blather.

Is this not direct political activity by the Church? How close will the bishops skate toward the edge before they land, shredding their tax exempt status? Other denominations are doing the same...this does not make it right...The correct format is reiterating from the pulpit, in church bulletins, etc. how church theology/rules stand on an issue (not a specific law, not a specific politician or political party)...and that's it...it doesn't include raising hundreds of thousands for media...that's direct political involvement!

It's shocking to see so much money going to this cause. I guess this means that the hungry have all been fed, the homeless all have shelter, the naked all have clothing. Congratulations Portland.

It's shocking to see so much money going to this cause. I guess this means that the hungry have all been fed, the homeless all have shelter, the naked all have clothing. Congratulations Portland.

All of it was tax-free, of course. I wonder how long the Catholic church can retain its tax-exempt status when it spends so much of its resources on lobbying and arm-twisting politicians?

I think it is appalling that the Catholic Church is wasting all this money on a political civil rights issue when it could be put to much better use in a Christian charitable way. Shame on you!

I don't get it. Why can't the bishops just instruct the Catholics what the rules of the church are and leave the laws of the country alone. Suppose the Jehova Witness Chruch made laws for the nation that forbade blood transfusions. How would we like that?

If using the almighty dollar to fight equality is not unAmerican, it certainly is unChristian.
Do Americans realize they are the only country in the world that holds referendums to take away human rights that were already granted to a minority? That their Catholic church, and others, is the only one that meddles in local, state and federal politics with massive lobbying and donations?
And the neocons have the audacity to dump on countries like Canada that not only has legalized same-sex marriage, despite the opposition of a few lone bishops, but adopted a sole-payer, universal health care plan decades ago?

Shame on all the contributers especially when we have so many families becoming homeless due to our enconomic situation. Shame.... when we have the highest rate ever of children starving . Shame....when food pantrys are bare. Shame...when soup kitchens are overcrowded. Let people make thier own decisions based on their conscience and use your political contributions for the sick, the poor, the hungry and displaced. Shame, shame, shame

Can someone explain how this is NOT in violation of constitutional statutes requiring seperation of the Church's powers from those of the state? The Knights of Columbus is a private organization, and as such, they are (it seems to me) an appropriate arm for such funding, but when dioceses and individual bishops, from all over the nation, make contributions to influence legislation that governs not only their own flock, but all citizens, we open ourselves up to some potentially problematic issues.

What scares me first about this article is that there is an overtone of veiled support for marriage equality - which is OK but I wish it were more direct and open. The picture gives away the intent of the article revealing a bias in spite of attempts to be strictly factual. This is a problem with reporting for the media in this age of agenda driven intent.

Secondly, I am afraid that the publication of contributors as public record will deter many from offering monetary assistance to controversial causes. The stories coming from California where some in the gay community felt it necessary to harass and shame those in the public record who gave money to causes they considered their enemy tells me that I will be careful where and how my money goes. This cheap tactic of harassment is something that can be used by both sides in any movement trying to effect change, therefore a real consideration of the dangers of involvement in this day and age is sorrowfully needed.

I am doing something now I never have done before, which is giving my name only as anonymous. I hope this is understandable.

It's nice to know with 9000000 children a year dying of easily preventable causes, that our bishops have taken time out from their hectic shuffling of pedophiles and reading republican talking points to address such an important issue. Hey did you see that report of 50000000 hungry in the US?

Seems to me the bishops should be campaigning to outlaw divorce. That's a much greater threat to marriage than my marriage to my same sex partner. But even more, it seems to me that a bunch of guys who couldn't see the problem about abusing school children have no business telling other people about sexual morality.

Before someone goes off the deep end with this, be sure that what the bishops did was conscientious, legal, and within their role as bishops. Regardless of how some may feel about gay rights and civil marriages, at this point in time the bishops were acting within official church teaching and exercising collegial assistance. Regardless of all the other useful ways the money could have been spent, and there will always be other useful ways, the bishops are acting within their duties and roles.

Another issue is the deep engagement of bishops in the political process, whether in Maine through funding a campaign, or with the US in assisting with the health care debate. Regardless of individual perspectives, the bishops are continuing their activeness in the political process of the US. Can morality be legislated? Can it be purchased? Apparently so.

Of course, the irony is what is legal in one state may not be legal in another. What a bishop says in one diocese, another says something different in another diocese. What the catechism says depends on who's reading it.

The emerging church? A symphony or a cacophony?

Fascinating that you ran a picture of Catholics for Marriage Equality next to a story that describes diocesan contributions to sustain the traditional definition of Marriage. I think the next appropriate thing to do is to show the contributors of the rest of the $7 million who were in favor of the extension of the civil law to include the identification of same sex partnerships as marriage. You should then put a picture of the diocese standing in opposition.

By the way, the use of scripture to support same sex unions as equal to the marriage partnership is a story worthy of theological debate.

and praise be almighty God that it was defeated!

Noticeably and properly absent were the (arch)dioceses in California.

As they --- and rest --- should have been.

Fie on those who contributed.

Jesus was totally inclusive. Love has no bounds or exclusions. Sickening - look how many poor could be fed with that money, children educated. And dioceses are declaring bankruptcy from settlements of priests who sexually abused innocent children. I think they forgot the catechism - God created all in His image and likeness. The arrogance of righteousness is greed under the guise of 'holiness' more aptly holeyness. Holes in the souls and hearts of the excluders!

Why should Catholics care about how the government treats marriage - assuming we're not talking about making all marriage illegal? The Catholic church defines marriage as a sacrament ministered by a baptized couple to each other, before a Catholic priest or deacon, witnessed by two others. Everything else (while many other forms may considered "binding") is really outside our concept. So why would we object so publicly and vociferously to a law making legal a marriage between same sex couples. As long as we Catholics are not discriminated against as regards our own narrowly defined ordinances regarding marriage, why would we want to stand in the way of what other people of good will believe? We can, should we decide to, preach against the "evil" we see in such conduct (if we must), but US law allows a lot of things we might believe are sinful: many forms of pollution, divorce, gambling 'til your family's broke and homeless, paying people less than a living wage, hating someone because of their race, smoking, selling and purchasing pornography. All legal.

Come on, we are talking about secular statutes that need to consider a broadly diverse population. Canon law, tradition, doctrine and all the rest are our business. The US Constitution is the arbiter of what's legal and what isn't. Certainly nothing in the Constitution allows us as a nation to deprive a whole group of people access to an institution available from the state to everyone but them.

This frightens me. Brings to mind, the succcessful attempt of the Catholic Christian Social Party in turn-of-Century Austria, lead by Hitler hero, Dr.Karl Lueger, to roll back civil rights for Jews, who were viewed by the church as bio-social social bearers of the corrupt and as agents of the Anti-Christ.

In like manner, the contemporary church regards gays, in their prideful 'pretension' to sexual dignity, as bearers of the corrupt, a similarly immoral minority.

Perhaps wishing to avoid to avoid the Nazi era term "sub-human", Ratzinger labels gays in their sexuality "not human", and does so using the same ends and means argument Thomas Aquinas employed to conclude that women were "only in a secondary sense" human.

As social bearers of the corrupt, gays fill a slot vacated in Vatican ideology by the pre-Holocaust Jew.

All such positions are inherently violent. Obviously and in spite of the requisite good-fellow prologues, whatever else it may do, believing oneself in possession of eternal truths, makes for slow learners.

The Vatican has just said "sorry 'bout that to Jews", called "next!" and moved on to gays, in the belief that this time we've got it right.

Like Robert Bly's '50's man, without an enemeny the Vatican seems to have no socio- political identity.

Ratzinger has even sacramentally cobbled together the gay marriage and woman's ordaination issue suggesting to theologian, Wolfhart Pannenberg, that women possessed of a desire for ordaination are "mainly lesbians".

In the words, of John Paul II, Ratzinger see it as an attempt "to appropriate masculine characteristic contrary to their 'feminine originality'". He is thus subtly encouraging the faithful to view such women and presumably Anglican women priest and evangelical Protestant minsiters as manifesting symtomns of inceptient sexual perversion. He's insidious.

The belief that gays and their partnerws can not be integrated into a Catholic family is destructive of those families. He apparently believes that gays and lesbians are alen sexual invaders from on Mars. And,if not the they should be send there.

Perhaps like the Nazis with respect to Jews, he hopes science will provide with us a technologically effective way of zapping the gay gene and thus of eliminating them only only from the Catholic family but from the planet, in which case, the universe will be better off. Isn't that true..

God bless

Michael McIntyre

Ottawa, Canada

If it weren't for the efforts to undermine the natural family and the natural definition of marriage, that money could have been spent on other things. But opposing an intrinsically evil threat to society is money well spent.

What a sad and sorry statement based in fear and ignorance. The broken body of Christ bleeds...

and yet not one bishop has asked, or gotten, a nickel from another bishop to help meet the needs of clergy sex abuse victims.

when it comes to clergy sex crimes and cover ups, it's 'every man for himself.'

David Clohessy, National Director, SNAP, Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, 7234 Arsenal Street, St. Louis MO 63143, 314 566 9790 cell (SNAPclohessy@aol.com)

not one bishop has ever asked, or gotten, a nickel from another bishop to help meet the needs of deeply wounded clergy sex abuse victims.

When it comes to clergy sex crimes and cover ups, it's "every man for himself."

David Clohessy, National Director, SNAP, Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, 7234 Arsenal Street, St. Louis MO 63143, 314 566 9790 cell (SNAPclohessy@aol.com)

PLAYING HARD BALL: It's about time Catholics[including the bishops]played hard-ball and stopped using namby-pamby Milquetoast methods with the politically-correct terrorists, who dominate the media, academia, Hollywood -- within church and society. Two people can play hard ball without a funny sensation running up and down one's leg. As Peanuts would say: "Bishops, you done good.!"

I am appalled, who gave them the right to spend our money on a political issue! I, for one, will no longer be contributing to the diocese in any way.

This is exactly why I have redirected my donations.

"Michael Guilfoyle, communications director for the Providence diocese, said, “The donation was an expression of clear support by the Diocese of Providence for the effort to defend the Sacrament of Marriage in Maine. Certainly, the proximity of Maine affects the situation here in Rhode Island.”

Since when does the Church need to "defend the Sacrament of Marriage" or any Sacrament to secular government? Freedom of religion is no longer Freedom of Religion if it is Legislated by the Government and mandated for all to obey. This is totally screwed up to mix politics with religion folks!!

If that is the case then, that we are to make the State a Catholic State and have civilians toe the Catholic line regarding its Sacraments, then it should work in the reverse to uphold the laws of the state that currently exist, such as no discrimination in the Church based on sex, marital status, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

The Church has deceived the laity with annual reports of expenditures which are to go to the poor and the needy, help with tuition costs and building maintenance, etc. Money flowing to discriminate against gay persons is outright wicked and evil!!!

No more money should go into the collection baskets to support discrimination of anyone!!!

This money is sent to cripple our own religious freedoms in the long run and at the same time that so many charities are needing money. Catholic Relief Services is asking for Emergency help and the stupid Bishops are sending money to destroy freedom and discriminate and spread the message of ignorance and hatred. A Crime against humanity!!

I really don't understand why Church leaders are so worried about the same-sex marraige issue. They control who gets married in the Church - why isn't that enough? Plus, I fail to see how a same-sex couple getting married would in any way threaten my marraige.

I wonder if all this isn't an attempt to shift the focus away from the Church's mismanagement of the child abuse scandal (where bishops and cardinals have forfeited their moral authority) to an issue where they can stand up and pontificate about a so-called "moral" issue.

Truly wondering about bishop's motivation.

One more reason not to trust the Bishops with donations! That money can be used - as in this case - to promote homophobia and exclusionary attitudes, neither of which practiced, modeled or taught by Jesus.

The Catholic Church stance reminds me of the joke about Soviet equality vis-a-vis privilege... all comrades are equal but some comrades are more equal than others. I guess some love is more equal though I doubt that the God of love would appreciate our distinctions. I would like to know how the Diocese of Portland, Maine, and all other dioceses contributing to Bishop Malone's appeal, can continue to be tax-exempt. If contributing money to a political campaign is not a clear breach of separation of church and state, I don't know what is.

The Diocese of Portland's vigorous and successful national appeal for contributions to defeat the Maine law extending civil marriage to gays and lesbians demonstrates clearly that the Catholic Church in this country is taking a no-holds barred stand to ensure that state laws and statutes that do not support the teachings of the Church will be fought tooth and nail. The political ramifications of this unofficial Church policy are also clear. The overwhelming majority of citizens in this country are non-Catholic and firm believers in the separation of church and state. Is it time to reconsider the tax-exenpt status of the Church?

So let's get this straight...   money that could have been used to help families struggling through severe economic times   (folks without jobs,   food   and   health care,   over multiple states)   was instead funneled into one diocese for the sole purpose of promoting lies and fear,   and thus reversing a state law giving equal CIVIL rights protection to homosexual families.
.
How quickly a distorted theology can be undone and hypocrisy revealed,   once the actual monetary numbers reach the printed page.     This was never about the sacrament of marriage or any threat thereto,   ...it WAS about civil law in a representative form of democracy and equal protection under civil law.     In many European countries they "get it"   ... with the civil contract "ceremony" being clearly separate and apart from religious ceremony or sacrament — no matter what you want to call it.
.
Chris Matthews got it exactly right in his interview with Bishop Tobin — the Roman hierarchs are attempting to use secular civil law on multiple fronts as a vehicle for forcing their teachings down the throats of Catholics and non-Catholics alike — using civil policy/law to do what the bishops have no power to do — to criminalize what they construe to be "immoral".     These religious zealots have become a Catholic Taliban within the United States — a dangerous threat to the 'establishment clause' of the first amendment of the Constitution.
.
We could quickly find ourselves back in the pre-1960s when Catholic politicians for higher office were virtually unelectable because they were believed to be under the dominant control of the Vatican,   and Church monies and power would be used to legislate Catholic morality.

As a former student of Bishop Richard Malone (of Portland, ME) and a priest of the Archdiocese of Boston, I am ashamed that he and so many of his episcopal brothers are unable to see the image of God in God's gay and lesbian children. The bishops' position against same-sex marriage -- and it is clearly the bishops' position, not the position of God's People, the Church -- is gravely unjust and rooted in a limited sexual theology that ignores a century's insights from psychology, medicine, genetics, and human development.

This debate is NOT about marriage, as the bishops and their fundamentalist cohorts are trying to frame it. It IS about whether we as followers of Jesus have the eyes to see our LGBT brothers and sisters as that -- brothers and sisters with the full rights and dignity of God's sons and daughters. The bishops and Vatican documents rightly recognize that sexual orientation is a given - not a choice. Yet they insist on insisting that gay men and women live celibate lives, without exercising the fundamental human right that belongs to everyone to form intimate, loving, and life giving relationships. When I was in the seminary, celibacy was always spoken of "as a gift." Funny how the bishops seem to think that a gift can be required of those to whom it hasn't been given!

This latest news article about the amount of money the bishops have spent on this unjust cause only accentuates the degree to which they have been blinded. In Portland, Richard Malone is known as a "climber." He clearly is seeking to make a name for himself with the hope of earning a larger archdiocese and perhaps even a red hat someday. Apparently the words of Jesus from the Gospel reading two weeks ago meant nothing to him and other religious "leaders." In speaking of the religious leaders of his day, Jesus said: "Beware of the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and accept greetings in the marketplaces, seats of honor in synagogues, and places of honor at banquets. They devour the houses of widows and, as a pretext recite lengthy prayers. They will receive a very severe condemnation."

I am appalled by this news!!! I feel that the dioceses, including my own home diocese of Green Bay, WI, had no business contributing to what is purely a secular political issue. It is one thing for the church to speak out for or against issues like this, but to contribute financially to the effort is in my mind WRONG!!!!!

Bishop Malone seems to DEVALUE gay persons as much as he DEVALUES women. His role in raising this large sum of money from outside the State of Maine is but another glaring example of why so many people feel the Catholic Church and the fundamentalist Protestant churches should lose their TAX EXEMPT STATUS. They are taking away basic equal rights from one group because of their hatred and bigotry, as well as homophobia. It's UNACCEPTABLE! It is never ok to treat other human beings in such a manner and it is NOT what Christ would do. Christ is not on board with bigotry and hatred, yet alone IGNORANCE. The violence of Bishop Malone's campaign against same sex marriage will be his legacy. Shameful.