Popes of the 20th Century: Paul VI

Pope Paul VI is a mixed figure in modern papal history. Conservative Catholics, who would ordinarily be favorable to just about every pope because of the central place the papacy occupies in the life of the Church, have reviled his memory — comparing him in a highly unfavorable way with their favorite pope of all time, John Paul II, whom they now refer to as John Paul the Great.

More objective commentators contrast the two popes’ styles. John Paul II rarely, if ever, had a doubt about the validity of his opinions, while Paul VI was almost always in doubt. And this state of doubt often got him into trouble.

Indeed, Pope John XXIII, who had placed Archbishop Montini at the top of his first batch of cardinals, referred to his eventual successor as a "Hamlet" of "to be or not to be" fame.

At the Second Vatican Council, for example, Montini — now Pope Paul VI — refused to honor the wishes of the assembled bishops, including the influential Cardinal Suenens of Belgium, who urged him to declare John XXIII a saint then and there. The pope resisted the proposal because he thought that it would reflect badly on his own mentor, Pius XII.

Instead he announced the initiation of procedures looking toward the canonization of both John XXIII and Pius XII. We now know how ill-conceived that linkage was. John XXIII has since been beatified, but Pius XII’s cause continues to languish.

Paul VI was also so worried about the concerns of the defeated minority regarding the council’s teaching on collegiality that he authorized an "Explanatory Note" to be appended to the third chapter of the council’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (also known by its Latin title, Lumen gentium) to reassure conservatives that nothing in the document detracted from the supreme authority of the pope.

The conservatives were ecstatic. Cardinal Siri of Genoa spoke for many of them: "Everything is all right! The Holy Spirit has entered the council. ... The pope has dug in his heels."

By contrast the progressive majority of council fathers went home after the third session thoroughly discouraged and demoralized.

On the last day of the session, wrote John O’Malley, S.J., in his book What Happened at Vatican II, "Paul’s face was grim as he was carried out of the basilica through row upon row of bishops, who applauded perfunctorily or, in some cases, not at all. ... No one doubted that the week [known to many as "black week"] had seriously damaged the relationship between the pope and the assembly."

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Just three-and-a-half years later Paul VI would ignore the recommendations of his own Pontifical Commission on Birth Control and reaffirm the church’s official teaching that birth control by artificial means was always a mortal sin.

Many believe that the pope had been frightened into this stance by representatives of the minority view who had warned him that if he changed the teaching on contraception the credibility of the papal magisterium itself would collapse.

And so it did, but not because he changed the teaching but because he failed to change it!

Paul VI was so taken aback by the unfavorable reaction to Humanae vitae, his encyclical on birth control, that he never published another encyclical during the ten years remaining in his pontificate.

Unfortunately his "Hamlet" ways continued well into his pontificate. Nine years after his election Paul VI wrote: "Perhaps the Lord called me to this service not because I have any aptitude for it, or so I can govern and save the Church in its present difficulties, but so I can suffer something for the Church so that it will be clear that it is the Lord, and not anyone else, who guides and saves it."

And yet Paul VI proved also to be a good pope, if not an outstanding one. He continued the Second Vatican Council begun by his predecessor, John XXIII; carried forward the revision of Canon Law; and worked tirelessly for the promotion of peace and justice in the world as well as the unity of the church.

But he had the unhappy task of trying to implement the reforms wrought by Vatican II — especially those pertaining to the liturgy — without provoking a schism within the Catholic Church.

He established several post-conciliar commissions and authorized the use of the vernacular in the Mass and the sacraments. He approved a new Order of the Mass in 1969, infuriating conservatives who mistakenly thought that the Roman Missal of Pius V could never be replaced.

Paul VI would have been appalled by John Paul II’s and Benedict XVI’s approval of two separate liturgical rites in the Roman Catholic Church.

Related columns:

© 2010 Richard P. McBrien. All rights reserved. Fr. McBrien is the Crowley-O’Brien Professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame.

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God bless Paul VI. He

God bless Paul VI. He dispensed me from celibacy and the obligation of the Divine Office....but he refused to lable such as laicization. Once a priest always a priest. There are 40,000 as such who would be back at the altar tomorrow except for celibacy. I recall nine Popes were married and three popes were sons of Popes. Such a waste of talent

The only future for the

The only future for the 40,000 "laicized" as far as JP II was concerned and Benedict 16 is concerned will be in an independent, autonomous/autocephalous, Catholic Church. One outside the Roman fold in union with exommunicated women priests.

This pope is not the healer and the reconciling pontiff John XXIII and Paul VI were.

Beg to differ Durwood, the

Beg to differ Durwood, the canonically-correct appellation for "an independent, autonomous/autocephalous, Catholic Church" these days is PERSONAL ORDINARIATE!

It appears that by yielding

It appears that by yielding to those who desire the extraordinary form, Pius V / John xxiii Missal, the Archbishops of Rome, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have allowed a grounds for the re-introduction of other more ancient rites, like the Celtic Rite(s).

I want to be canonized after

I want to be canonized after my death or even before. Do I have to be conservative? If I do need to be conservative then conserve me in watever form for a later date when liberalism is in the church. If never in the church then let me rot.

I think you have done a good

I think you have done a good job, Fr. McBrien, in delineating the contrasting elements of Pope Paul VI's personality. I hope that history affirms that the Holy Spirit was indeed at the Council, and that we continue to move forward in the development of theology and dogma in the Church. Politics is the name of the game, and the goal of Politics is what is "possible." I think that Pope Paul VI achieved what was possible without schism. However, down the line, some divisions within the Church will nevertheless occur as we strive to be true to the gospel imperative of proclaiming the good news of reconciliation to the world.

"...affirms that the Holy

"...affirms that the Holy Spirit was indeed at the Council...."
Indeed, the Holy Spirit was at the Council, but He refused to participate.

"Without Schism"???? Mass

"Without Schism"???? Mass attendance is down to 25 % in the US. What about the silent schism of the millions of souls who left the Church after the New Mass was introduced? Talking about the success of Protestants who joined the Church while ignoring the millions who left her is like the folly of juggling numbers in a spread sheet. By suppressing the Tridentine Mass while intoducing a new form was in essence and practice the betrayal of trust for millions. Many only went along grudgingly. Many left altogether. And here we are 40 years later and the abuses continue. The contoversary swirls. No one seems to argue the liturgy has been wrought with abuse, deformations, and a banal atmosphere for decades. Yes the NO is a valid Mass, however it is inherently flawed by the way it was introduced. That will never go away. Priests and Bishops of that era had all the pastoral sensitivity of a sledgehammer. And they continue to pay the price for what they have done. At no time in history of the Church has a Pope attempted to suppress its' own Rite and supplant it with something else. There is no precedent and that is why there is not way to look back and see what was done to recover from such a debacle. Sadly the Church being in such a mess is what employs many. Our children and theirs will see how history will look back on the Pontificates of Paul VI and that of Benedict XVI. I would put my money on Papa B anyday.

Actually,research shows a

Actually,research shows a decline from Humanae Vitae in the US. As far as Europe
goes decline was already present before Vatican II starting from the age of englightenment. Pius the XII lamented the drop of vocations in religious life
after WW II. As far as Vatican II goes,the document on the liturgy stated
it is open to new innovations if there^s a demand. Paul the VI saw that a vernacuilar mass would be best & the people responded positively. You^ll rarely
hear complaints about mass in the native language of the people

I have not read this, but,

I have not read this, but, the very fact that it starts with saying that people consider JPII the greatest pope of all time turned me off. He has turned the church backwards and Benedict XVI is continuing the backward motion

Actually, Fr. McBrien is

Actually, Fr. McBrien is distinctly referring in that sentence to what he understands to be the CONSERVATIVE evaluation of the pontificate of John Paul II. Countless of Fr. McBrien's columns, both during and after the previous papacy, would suggest that Fr. McBrien shares your view of John Paul.

JP11 the all time favorite of

JP11 the all time favorite of the conservatives? Surely you jest, sir.

I believe that Humanae Vitae

I believe that Humanae Vitae was the low point of the 20th Century in our Church's history. He caved in to a small minority out of fear that papal authority would be comprimised..."Not on my watch..."
JR

And Paul VI did this after he

And Paul VI did this after he "re-organized' the papal commission formed by John XXIII, stacking it with a majority of clerics, conservatives at that, and when by a large majority they recommended that certain forms of birth control be allowed, he ignored them out of fear and wrote his encyclical that was indeed a disaster.

What wonderful and succinct

What wonderful and succinct article! Thank you Father

I believe that Pope Paul VI

I believe that Pope Paul VI will be judged more accurately by future historians, and will be given the credit that is his due. After all, even if all he had done was to produce Humanae Vitae in the face of the great error of his own Pontifical Commission on Birth Control, his papacy could have been viewed as a success. Fr. McBrien correctly points out that Paul VI provided the '"Explanatory Note" to be appended to the third chapter of the council’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (also known by its Latin title, Lumen gentium).' But reading about the mechanics and development of the Council, one finds that there were many such additions and corrections by this pope (to the extreme dismay of the liberal European bishops) that ultimately kept Vatican II from becoming an even bigger disaster than it has proven to be. Also, and maybe even more importantly, an argument might be made that Paul VI laid much of the foundation upon which John Paul the Great and Benedict (the Greater) have been able to bring about the reforms that will nullify the satanic effect of a failed, pastoral Council which came close to ruining the Church.

Nonsense!

Nonsense!

"Paul VI laid much of the

"Paul VI laid much of the foundation upon which John Paul the Great and Benedict (the Greater) have been able to bring about the reforms that will nullify the satanic effect of a failed, pastoral Council which came close to ruining the Church."

Neither Popes John Paul II nor Benedict XVI have ever, in word or in text, expressed anything nearing your schismatic sentiments on the Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican. Insofar as Paul VI is concerned, the Second Vatican Council, which according to you had a "satanic effect", was HIS council. Blessed John XXIII died before any conciliar documents were released or any reforms were implemented. Do you imagine that Paul VI "laid much of the foundation" for the nullification of a council which he himself presided over?

Read John XXIII Veterum

Read John XXIII Veterum Sapientia. That is groundwork that will forever be an APostolic Constitution. And it goes against that very "Spirit of Vat II" that has been shoved down our throats since 1970.

Richard Mc Brien has once

Richard Mc Brien has once again offered us honest insights into the Papacy of Paul VI. Yes, Pope Paul would be clearly appalled by John Paul II and Benedict's approval of two liturgical rites. He would no doubt see all of these developments as a rejection of the true spirit of reform and renewal that was Vatican II. There has always been a virulent right wing block in the Catholic Church and they have always threatened schism as a sort of tool of blackmail. We must always remember their failed attempts to thwart every major reform of the Second Council. Fortunately, the pendulum is just starting to swing back toward the middle and the right wingers within the Catholic Church are about to become more desperate and contemptible if they do not get their way. This is when they are most dangerous not only to the Catholic Church but to the world at large. This is also when they show their true colors.

Conservatives are in love

Conservatives are in love with Benedict XVI thinking he'll turn back the clock to the pre-Vatican liturgy, restore mandatory latin, or a liturgy largely in latin, impose mass facing east on everyone, abolish communion in the hand, abolish concelebration, and prohibit communion under both species.

This pope is an excellent politician. He knows how to keep everyone guessing about his next move. He's got the right eating out of his hand. Conservatives don't see the pattern to his ways because they see what they want to see, and not what's there in the pope's own writings.

He'll never abolish the novus ordo mass. The Roman Missal's 3rd edition with his own imprint on it in a few places is proof he won't. The vernacular liturgy is here to stay permanently. He is known to have a strong preference for using the third eucharistic prayer in public and private masses. If he planned to turn back the clock, reverse the changes we've seen over the past four decades, he would have done it by now.

With a few incremental changes here and there, with a strong emphasis on returning the liturgy to a thing of beauty, Benedict will placate the traditionalists just enough, but no more. He has a delicate balance to maintain and to think he'll abolish the work of the Council, or radically change the liturgy of Paul VI is an ultra trad's pipe dream. It has no basis in reality whatsoever.

Like Paul VI, this pope won't run the risk of bringing on the very schism Pope Paul and he fear the most.

When Benedict is gone from the scene, his greatest critics will be coming from the right not the left.

No, B16 has not brought

No, B16 has not brought schism. He's simply adding to the Lutheran and Episcopalian congregations in the US. And a growing number of formerly faithful Catholics are simply staying home in disgust over the mishandling of the pedophile scandal as well as the bishops' attempts at interfering with the health care of women. It's not just the Phoenix abortion case but also the issue of sterilization after the 3rd C-section to avoid the increased risk of placenta previa, a potentially fatal condition related to the placenta's abnormal positioning over the cervix. And the requirement that a 2nd trimester infected, spontaneously aborting, way too immature to live fetus be kept in the uterus, even at the high risk of maternal sepsis, until the fetus' heart stops beating. It goes on and on. The lack of priests because there are too few celibate men. Too many priests with an overly dogmatic attitude who insist that abused women or women with husbands who are philandering and possibly bringing diseases home with them not divorce their husband "for the sake of your soul and your children." I see this all the time from my position as the Chief of Staff in a small Catholic hospital in rural Oregon. I hope you also saw the blog about the dearth of Catholic marriages last week. You think that the priest shortage is bad now? Let's see what it looks like in another 25 years. But that is no skin off of B16's teeth as he will be resting in the basement of St Peter's.

Catholic Physician, he will

Catholic Physician, he will be resting in the Kingdom! His body may be in the basement of St. Peter Basilica--until the general resurrection, but Benedict XVI will be among the stars who shine for all eternity!

And when that pendulum swings

And when that pendulum swings back maybe we will get the Mass that Vat II demanded. The one with Latin retained, Ad Orientem, Gregorian Chant, and basically the 1962 Missal with a few modifications that might be deemed necessary for the good of the Church. Not a new Missal entirely constructed out of committee with a sole intent. To create an ecumenical Mass. Not a Mass which in the words of the ArchBishop who created it "will be stripped of its' too Catholic elements". The NO Mass we have today is not want the Council envisioned. Very few argue that. That is the Mass you envision as well when the pendulum swings back, isn't it?

If Paul VI would have been

If Paul VI would have been appalled that his successors granted greater permission for the older form of the Roman Rite, I think it is equally true that John XXIII would have been appalled by the changes that Paul VI actually made to the liturgy.

based on? "would have

based on?
"would have been?"

based on?

The last sentence of this

The last sentence of this column reads: "Paul VI would have been appalled by John Paul II’s and Benedict XVI’s approval of two separate liturgical rites in the Roman Catholic Church."

There is one rite in Roman Catholicism, the Roman rite. This one rite, however, has two forms, the ordinary form and the extraordinary form. Surely Fr. McBrien, who I am a fan of, knows this.

A vocal minority of practicing Catholics desire access to the Tridentine Mass. Why deny them that access? Liturgical diversity is HEALTHY for the Church. The People of God are not called to a rigid, stifling uniformity, either in liturgy or in other such matters. If some Catholics do not find that their spiritual needs are met by the Novus Ordo, but are met by the Mass of Pius V, it seems sensible that Rome would allow them the option of going to their preferred Mass. Moderate and liberal Catholics needn't attend the Tridentine Mass if they, like I, prefer the Novus Ordo, but they should not insist that their personal liturgical preferences be enforced on all.

I am glad to see that Fr. McBrien has given Paul VI a reasonable, mostly balanced evaluation, rather than lazily reducing his entire pontificate to "Humanae Vitae" (as many Catholics on both sides do). For those of you who are interested in finding out more about the life and person of Paul VI, I recommend the Italian miniseries "Paul VI: The Pope in the Tempest", recently made available to US audiences by Ignatius Press.

An error commonly held by

An error commonly held by Latin Rite Roman Catholics: there are many Roman Catholic Rites that are not--and never have been--celebrated in Latin. Check out Wikipedia [or any other standard reference work] for 'Eastern Rite Roman Catholics' and let the light in! Also, the word 'cathlic' does not appear in the Roman Catholic Church's reference to itself in Latin: i.e., Ecclesia Santa Romana!

I am well aware of Eastern

I am well aware of Eastern Rite Catholicism, but I do not refer to Eastern Catholics as "Roman Catholics." For me (and for Eastern Catholics who I've spoken to in the past), "Roman" means "Latin."

As a "conservative" Catholic

As a "conservative" Catholic (that label is unnecessary, one is either Catholic or not, but since Father McBrien used it, I will as well), I do not "revile" the memory of Pope Paul VI. Indeed, he was one of very few people who recognized the danger to the Church posed by the hijacking of Vatican II (it was he, after all, who famously said "the smoke of Satan has entered the sancturary"). Further, Pope Paul VI had the tenacity, strength and courage to oppose the progressive voices who wanted him to alter the Church's consistent teaching on artificial birth control. (And, Father McBrien, just because people refuse to follow a teaching does not weaken or undermine that teaching, or cause the teaching authority to "collapse", as you erroneously suggest. The teaching stands, and those who fail to follow it engage in something called "sin". I'm sure, somewhere along the lines, you've heard of that term.)

Pope Paul VI did have his doubts and he was weak in the implementation of Vatican II, allowing the more progressive radicals among the College, the bishops, and the clergy and laity, to take far too much control over said implementation. This resulted in the perversion of the Council's mission: from being a council that sought to revise the manner in which doctrine is taught, it became a beacon allowing those who doubted or disagreed with the Church's teaching to openly dissent from it! That was never what was intended by either Blessed John XXIII or Pope Paul VI.

Pope Paul was like most of us, a human being with his own foibles, strengths and weaknesses. He did, I believe, the very best he could given the set of circumstanes he was handed upon his election (a Council he opposed calling; the coming sexual revolution, leading to the wholesale degredation of the gift of sexuality; wars and upheaval at home and abroad; the Cold War; and a radical progressive front in the Church devious enough to stop at nothing to get what they wanted).

Finally, just one more clarification: Pope John Paul the Great was not my favorite pope of all time. That would be Blessed Pope Pius IX (thought Saints Pius V and Pius X are right up there as well!).

Pope Paul VI allowed the

Pope Paul VI allowed the Tridentine Mass to be suppressed, often brutally, right before our very eyes. I would think that is more than weakness. Allow for a new form fine, allow a new ecemenical Mass fine, but suppress a Catholic Mass that has sustained the Faith for centuries? What was he thinking?

Pope Paul VI greatest

Pope Paul VI greatest contribution to the Church was his promulgation of the document "Dignitatis Humanae". This document was the Magba Carta of Vatican. What it states is that no hierarch, no governor, no state, no legislative body, no king, no ruler may intrude on the indiviual's right to exercise freedom of conscience. This right is unalienable, it may neither be waived nor transferred to another. Dignitatis Humanae. was largely written by John Courtney Murray. S.J. This effort, alone, redeemed Paul VI's

"Paul VI would have been

"Paul VI would have been appalled by John Paul II’s and Benedict XVI’s approval of two separate liturgical rites in the Roman Catholic Church."

The Ambrosian Rite is a liturgical rite that's more or less under the nose of Rome (or above, if you prefer). It's a distinct rite within the western church that I'm sure a renowned ecclesiologist such as yourself is quite aware of. Never mind the various eastern liturgical rites that I'm sure no one here needs to make a case for.

But why leave an unqualified dangling statement such as the above if you didn't already have an ax to grind. Can't wait to see the entries on John Paul II and Benedict.

Any analysis of the Pauline

Any analysis of the Pauline pontificate must also mention the well-balanced encyclical Populorum Progressio (1967) on development and peace, which anniversary is always celebrated by his successors. Other encyclicals were indeed issued after 1968, and they brought in modest advances. These include Octagesima Adveniens with its further development of social teaching, and Evangelii Nuntiandi with its early promotion of evangelization. We should also not forget that Abp. Jadot was appointed nuncio to the United States during these years, and he was a key figure in the appointment of those bishops whom Fr. McBrien has celebrated in his recent columns.

This comment circulated

This comment circulated during the time of Paul the VI. --"Pius XI wasn't a saint and knew it. Pius XII thought he a saint and wasn't. John XXIII was a saint and didn't know it. And Paul VI couldn't make up his mind."

Father O'Brien's last few

Father O'Brien's last few articles about the Popes of the 20th Century have been most informative. During my life time I remained hopeful as each new Pope was elected, especially with the election of Pope JPII. I thought his experience living under communism and not being Italian would bring some new thinking, but sadly that would not be the case. My disappointed however, started with Pope Paul VI's decision about birth control. I'm looking forward to Fr. O'Brien's commentary on Pope John Paul II's papacy next week because his papacy is the one that troubled me the most and made it very difficult for me to remain hopeful. Pope Paul VI may have been a doubter, but to learn that Pope PJ II was always certain that he was right adds to my concerns of just what kind of personality Pope JPII was.

Paul VI was certainly

Paul VI was certainly controversial. However, let us remember his trips to the United Nations and to Jerusalem/Holy Land. Certainly paved the way for John Paul II Frequent Flyer program!

Fr. McBrien. Excellent and

Fr. McBrien.

Excellent and balanced evaluation of Pope Paul VI. I guess he had human frailty in some areas, like all of us.

In the meantime, could someone please mention in a response to this article where a copy of the ancient Celtic rite (translated from Gaelic into English or French, which I would be able to read) could be obtained? I have been searching for it for years. Most sincere thanks.

he also sold off the papal

he also sold off the papal tiara and gave the money to the poor

and wrote the best bumper sticker of all time

if you want peace work for justice

liberation

I would like Fr McBrien to

I would like Fr McBrien to comment on the "validity" or "invalidity" of the present papacy, that is, in view of the "loading of the episcopal dice" by the selective appointments of John Paul II, in view of the election of Benedict XVI by pre-prejudiced electors (Tridentine revisionists), and in view of the utter papal (episcopal) disregard for the sensus fidelium. If all the above points are wrong as represented here they should be exposed for their error.

Such reflection is wholesome and necessary for the good of the Church and of the people, even if politically risky. Surely, "truth" matters, especially in these times of troubling within the Church and under the urgent circumstances of cultural tumult. Jesus didn't hold back in speaking truth to officialdom of his time.

I think Paul VI did the best

I think Paul VI did the best job he could under the circumstances. The real problem is the Vatican Council II itself. Personally, since it was a pastoral council not a doctrinal one, I think it should be annulled. The whole nonsense with collegiality in an ostensibly dogamtic document shows it is a farce. Collegiality is a heresy on its face! Why the ambiguity? Why not have documents with crystal clarity? The Pope is the supreme ruler of the Church - Defide. Look it up in the book of Catholic dogma!

Obviously whoever wrote that

Obviously whoever wrote that book you referred to was ignoring history.
If collegiality is heresy,why did a African synod of Bishops excummunicate Pope Vigilius ? Why did the bishops at the 3rd council of Constantinople excommunicate Pope Honorius ? Why did the Council Of Constance declare all are to submit to its teachings including the Pope ? In the first 1,000 years the church was collegial. Nobody heard of the bishop of Rome acting alone. It was Emperors who called councils to resolve doctrinal matters. Opinions are fine but
are not historical facts. Vatican II returned to real tradition by reviving collegiality with the Pope as head

"Fundamentals of Catholic

"Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" by Dr Ludwig Ott, 1954

It all depends on how collegiality is defined. But it is never defined as the bishops vs the Pope. In point of fact a heretical pope like John XXII (not 23rd) could be removed. This Pope denied the particular judgment but recanted on his death bed. When John XXIII was on his death bed, his dying words were "Stop the Council, stop the Council! But it is not possible for a group of bishops to excommunicate a sitting non-heretical Pope.

Finally, you make reference to the heresy of conciliarism. So long as a sitting Pope disagrees with what all of the bishops agree to wrt a proposed teaching of a council, the teaching cannot be part of the Council.

This is what happened at Vatican II when a majority of the bishops wanted to push collegiality (in the sense that it could limit a pope's authority) but Paul VI agreed with the conservative minority of bishops (20%) & frustrated the heretical majority. This mirrors the Arian heresy in the Church. However the actual doctrinal teachings of a Council do bind future popes.

It Vatican 1 on the role of

It Vatican 1 on the role of Bishops limiting papal primacy....."It by no means detracts from that ordinary & immediate power of episcopal jurisdiction,by which bishops...tend & govern individually the particulair flocks which have been assigned to them"
Council Of Constance "this synod holds its power directly from Christ,all persons of whatever rank or dignity,even a pope,are bound to obey itin matters relating to faith & to end of the schism as well to reform of the church in its head & in its members"

The Council Of Nicae declared constantinople holds primacy as well as Rome.
If what you say is true give me a example in the first 1,000 years where a Pope
acted separately from his brother bishops outside his jurisdiction. All bishops are referred to as Vicars Of Christ not just the Pope in the first 1000 years.
Yes a african synod of Bishops excommunicated a POpe Vigilius.What Vatican II did was restore collegialty as was once practiced

It certainly is true that the

It certainly is true that the bishop is the authority in his own diocese but this power is still subject to papal review. Why do you think people write to Rome about abuses in their dioceses? This problem only arises today since some of the bishops are modernist heretics. The question of collegiality has to do with the overall governance of the Church. Collegiality per se is not wrong. The Pope should govern the Church in concert with his bishops. I have no problem with that.

But the bottom line is that the Pope has absolute authority in the Church. Not everyone was happy when Paul VI changed the format of the Mass but he was Pope & he had the right to do that. Admittedly, papal authority should be administered wisely, even sparingly, always with prudence & yes in consultation with the bishops. The problem with collegiality comes in when it is used to somehow rein in the Pope. An example would be your false statement about a Council which claimed it had the power to bind the Pope. This is clearly false since conciliar decrees could only be valid if the Pope himself agreed with them.

The Council Of Constance

The Council Of Constance declared a council above pope. Look it Up

And look where that has

And look where that has gotten the Church. Perhaps collegiality was abandoned for a reason long ago. Maybe the lessons of the past have not been learned. The last 40 years have not been good for the Church or even close. If this way of governing is so good why don't countries have 5 to 10 Presidents?

Pope Paul VI was the

Pope Paul VI was the worst.Happily some of his awful changes are being flushed down the bowl.Long live Pope Benedict XVI!

The Catholic Church will

The Catholic Church will indeed change their teaching on BIRTH CONTROL. It has to or it will be one more nail in the coffin for the institutional Catholic Church. Paul VI made a huge mistake when he did not reform the Church's teaching on birth control. This was a fatal error and we are paying a heavy price for it as the world is so over populated that the next generations may not even survive. All popes are very human. Many are great, such as Blessed John XXIII. The right wing elements are increasing the speed of the decay of the imperial model of Catholicism. This model will not survive the next decade. The time for a Vatican III is just about at hand and I have no doubt that major changes and reforms that were not carried out after Vatican II, will be implemented. I see far right elements leaving to form their own "true" Church such as what happened in parts of France after Vatican II. I know we will see married priests, bishops and popes during this century. A return to the pattern of the first thousand years of the Catholic Church. I also believe we will see women priests and bishops and even a woman Bishop of Rome. It will happen. It must happen.

The same old tired refrain,

The same old tired refrain, "change the teaching on birth control". One may ask, "Why?", but of course, we know. People want the birth control teaching changed so that they can have meaningless sexual relationships with anyone they wish, any time they wish, without having to worry about consequences.

Oh, they may couch it in the disguise of "overpopulation", but ultimately it's all about person license. It's all about "ME", as usual.

I an confident that the

I an confident that the papcy, as we know it, is definitely not what Jesus intended. Our RC Church needs a thorough pruning. I suspect our present woes may just be an expression of judgement upon us.

Paul VI can be remembered for

Paul VI can be remembered for many ground-breaking efforts to open up the Church to the real world and the world to the real Church, and I think history can eventually judge him on that basis, but for the largest black mark on his record when he failed to heed the call.

The only way such a positive judgement of history can result is for enough Catholics to demand publicly that the Roman See admit that it is in error and to prove it is sincere by rescinding Humanae Vitae, the root of evil of our time which was the initial blow reversing the Church's modern efforts to minister to today's people of God. That would be a start to calling many former Catholics, perhaps even myself, back to the Church.

In April 1976, after Pope

In April 1976, after Pope Paul VI had condemned homosexuality in a homily, French author Roger Peyrefitte accused him of being a closet homosexual.

In an interview with the Italian magazine Tempo, Peyrefitte, himself gay, a homosexual alleged that the Pontiff’s words were hypocritical.

Pope Paul VI took the unusual step of issuing a denial in a public speech from the balcony of St. Peters.

He called it "a horrible and slanderous insinuation".

Then he implored catholics to "pray for our humble person, who has been made the target of scorn, by certain press lacking dutiful regard for honesty and truth."

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/08/arts/roger-peyrefitte-french-writer-di...

Surely, there is no

Surely, there is no fundamental contradiction between the Montini/Ratzinger papacies. Benedict XVI habitually refers to Paul VI as a great pope, for example, he gave the following Angelus address at the Piazza Duomo, Bressanone on Sunday, 3 August 2008 (the reference to "contemplating the Face of Christ" deliberately identifies a theme of his own papacy with that of Paul VI):

"Now, dear friends, I ask you to join me in a devout and filial commemoration of the Servant of God, Pope Paul VI, the 30th anniversary of whose death we shall be celebrating in a few days. Indeed, he gave up his spirit to God on the evening of 6 August 1978, the evening of the Feast of the Transfiguration of Jesus, a mystery of divine light that always exercised a remarkable fascination upon his soul. As Supreme Pastor of the Church, Paul VI guided the People of God to contemplation of the Face of Christ, the Redeemer of man and Lord of history. And it was precisely this loving orientation of his mind and heart toward Christ that served as a cornerstone of the Second Vatican Council, a fundamental attitude that my venerable Predecessor John Paul II inherited and relaunched during the great Jubilee of the Year 2000. At the centre of everything, always and only Christ: at the centre of the Sacred Scriptures and of Tradition, in the heart of the Church, of the world and of the entire universe. Divine Providence summoned Giovanni Battista Montini from the See of Milan to that of Rome during the most sensitive moment of the Council - when there was a risk that Blessed John XXIII's intuition might not materialize. How can we fail to thank the Lord for his fruitful and courageous pastoral action? As our gaze on the past grows gradually broader and more aware, Paul VI's merit in presiding over the Council Sessions, in bringing it successfully to conclusion and in governing the eventful post-conciliar period appears ever greater, I should say almost superhuman. We can truly say, with the Apostle Paul, that the grace of God in him "was not in vain" (cf. 1 Cor 15: 10): it made the most of his outstanding gifts of intelligence and passionate love for the Church and for humankind. As we thank God for the gift of this great Pope [grande Papa], let us commit ourselves to treasure his teachings."

On overturning the church

On overturning the church ruling on birth control. No need now. The people are speaking every day. Have countries reached a rate of childbearing that won't sustain their population through Church approved birth regulation or abstinence? I don't think so.

What percent of Catholic couples are following Church law? 5%? 2%?

Kevin

"About truth, people and

"About truth, people and institutions"
Are popes, people and Church well-served by the Jesuits?
http://ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/shaken-so-we-can-pour-ourselves-out

I often wonder what Father

I often wonder what Father McBrien thinks of the comments his articles provoke.

Does he care; does he read them; does he respond to any one at any time; does he find them humorous?

Besides giving us historical and theological tidbits is his underlying purpose to make us think?

"... Pius XII’s cause

"... Pius XII’s cause continues to languish."

Notwithstanding his being declared Venerable very recently, right? ...

I remember being disappointed

I remember being disappointed that Paul seemed so weak compared to John and hoping for something better when he died. If we only knew... Ah well John Paul of happy memory probably was a lot better but he only lasted a month. Now if we had 12 years of him and then had 12 years of #2 perhaps we would be in a better place.
Alas, perhaps I have to much attachment to the institutional church. JP2 and Benedict certainly help one to focus on the kingdom. THAT'S where our hope should be ( but there is still the foolish hope that the church could live up to the promise of Vatican II).
Ah well refocus. Live Jesus in our hearts!

Evolution and MORAL

Evolution and MORAL RECIPROCITY: Earth gives back what Earth receives: we belong to Earth as Earth belongs to us.

http://justifiedliving.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978...

Paul VI will never be able to

Paul VI will never be able to shake off the label of the Hamlet Pope, and Benedict XVI will always be known as the Panzerkardinal. Such is the power of labels, justified or not.

Does anyone realize all of

Does anyone realize all of the changes Pope Paul VI made during and after Vatican II, not including the Liturgy? The number is unbelievable. Just a few small examples; he eliminated 11 types of Monsignor's, eliminated the Galero in favor of the Biretta in the ceremony for new Cardinals, and eliminated the Palatine Guard and another order similar to it, leaving only the Swiss Guard. These are only three changes, there are many, many more. I do not stand in judgment of him or any Pope, it is not my place nor am I qualified. I just wish that I had been alive to see the Church as it was before all of the changes.

Paul VI, I think, goes down

Paul VI, I think, goes down as something of the LBJ of the Catholic Church.

Like LBJ, Paul follows a popular, smiling leader named "John", beloved of the whole world, and suffers by comparison to him. Both Johns left messes to attend to after their deaths, and both LBJ and Paul--LBJ with Vietnam and Paul with Vatican II--suffered tremendous unpopularity on account of their handling of their respective challenges.

Someone once told me that he felt that Pope Paul VI "armwrestled" traditional Catholicism out of the Church. I wonder how accurate that is, but the era during which he presided over the Church does seem to have had that effect, to a degree. The sort of Catholic that was once considered mainstream is now considered fringe, and whenever Pope Benedict resurrects a bit of ermine here or a fiddleback chasuble there, he raises eybrows.

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