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PDF versionVatican pressures theology journal
Aug. 29, 2011
In a move some theologians say undermines the credibility of the leading English-language Catholic theological journal, the Vatican has pressured it to publish a scholarly essay on marriage, unedited and without undergoing normal peer review.
The essay, which appeared in the June 2011 issue of the quarterly Theological Studies, published in Milwaukee under the auspices of the Jesuits, upholds the indissolubility of marriage. It was a reply to a September 2004 article in which two theologians argued for a change in church teachings on divorce and remarriage.
The Vatican has been pressuring the editors at Theological Studies since not long after the publication of the 2004 essay, according to theologians not connected to the journal or to the Jesuit order. The Vatican aim is to weed out dissenting voices and force the journal to stick more closely to official church teachings.
The theological sources, who asked not to be identified lest they come under pressure from the Vatican, say the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith pressured policy changes at Theological Studies. The journal’s editor in chief, Fr. David G. Schultenover, announced the changes, following the words “A clarification” printed in bold letters in his editor’s column in the December 2010 issue.
He then wrote for his subscribers, mostly Catholic theologians who carefully read each issue for scholarly purposes, an explanation for some editorial policy shifts in the journal. Schultenover began by making a reference to a controversial essay published in the journal’s September 2006 issue. That essay, sources have told NCR, further raised tension levels between the Vatican and Theological Studies’ editors.
Wrote Schultenover: “Even with the best professional protocols and sincerest intentions to offer a journal of service to the church, an article might appear in our pages that some judge could mislead some readers. This seems to have been the case with ‘Catholic Sexual Ethics: Complementarity and the Truly Human,’ by Todd Salzman and Michael Lawler (September 2006). Some readers might have formed an opinion that because this article appeared in our pages, the journal favors and even promotes its thesis, one that does not in all aspects conform to current, authoritative church teaching. For all such readers, I wish to clarify that this article, insofar as it does not adhere to the church’s authoritative teaching, does not represent the views of the editors and sponsors of Theological Studies. While the journal, heeding the mandates of recent popes to do theology ‘on the frontiers,’ promotes professional theology for professional theologians, it does not promote theses that contravene official church teaching, even if -- though very rarely -- such theses find a place in our pages. If and when they do, our policy will be to alert readers and clearly state the current authoritative church teaching on the particular issue treated.”
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Asked by telephone to explain why the journal now feels it necessary to warn readers when publishing essays believed to contravene official church teachings, Schultenover refused comment. When told other theologians said the Vatican had pressured Theological Studies to make the editorial changes, he answered: “Their conclusions did not come from me.”
In an uncommon note in Theological Studies that preceded the Vatican-mandated June 2011 essay, Schultenover wrote that “except for minor stylistic changes, the [marriage] article is published as it was received.”
This editorial note tipped off some Theological Studies readers to the unusual nature of the article. Fr. James Coriden, canon lawyer, professor at the Washington Theological Union, and coauthor of the original 2004 essay on marriage, said that upon reading the note he immediately concluded Schultenover had been forced to publish it.
“It’s a terrible precedent,” Coriden said, referring both to the publication of the “as is” article and the new editorial policy that singles out theology not in keeping with official church teachings. Coriden is the recipient of the 2011 Catholic Theological Society of America’s John Courtney Murray Award, the highest honor bestowed by the society to a theologian.
John Thiel, president of the Catholic Theological Society of America, said he regrets the Vatican interventions, calling them “misguided” on several fronts.
“First, it wrongly assumes that the journal’s readership of professional theologians is incapable of making its own professional judgments about theological positions. Second, it seems to conflate theology and doctrine, wrongly thinking that theology’s task is the repetition of doctrine. Theology’s long history of playing a role in the process of doctrinal development shows this not to be true. Third, the publication of an article by a fiat in violation of the editorial process calls into question the integrity of the article so published, placing its authors in an unfortunate position.”
Fr. Charles Curran, professor of theology at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, said the Vatican action “is the most serious attack possible on U.S. Catholic theology because Theological Studies is our most prestigious scholarly journal.”
Curran, whom the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith declared in 1986 was not suitable to be a Catholic theologian because of his dissent from hierarchical moral teaching, noted that “once again” it is moral theology and sexual ethics that has become the Vatican’s litmus of orthodoxy.
He said the Vatican actions could doubly hurt Theological Studies, first by encouraging theologians who might be “working on the frontiers” to go elsewhere with articles they think might no longer get published in the journal and, secondly, by forcing Theological Studies editors to “ration dissent” in the publication.
“There’s definitely a chill factor here,” he said. “And if this is going on here, you have to think it is going on elsewhere, in Europe.”
“The Society of Jesus has a cordial, ongoing relationship with Cardinal William Levada, moderator of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,” said Jesuit Fr. Thomas H. Smolich, president of the Jesuit Conference of the United States. “The society fully supports Theological Studies and its mission of theological inquiry and investigation. I am grateful for the fine job Fr. Schultenover has done as its editor in chief.”
The article that first sparked the controversy in 2004 was coauthored by Coriden and Franciscan Fr. Kenneth Himes, former chair of Boston College’s theology department and previous head of the Catholic Theological Society of America.
In an earlier essay in Theological Studies, Himes and Coriden argued for a pastoral approach that would allow divorced and remarried Catholics to fully participate in the Eucharist under certain conditions. However, in the 2004 article, “Indissolubility of Marriage: Reasons to Reconsider,” they go much further and maintain that the teaching of the church on the indissolubility of marriage should be changed.
“We believe the pastoral care of the divorced and remarried in the present situation has reached the stage where honesty requires a reconsideration of the continued divide between the church’s teaching on indissolubility and the pastoral strategies of its ministers,” they wrote, asking “if church teachings remain persuasive.”
“By asking this question, however, we do not wish to be seen as advocates of divorce. The teaching of the Catholic church that marriage between baptized persons is a sacrament that should entail a permanent and faithful union of love between husband and wife is a wise and much needed message in the modern world.”
After years of mounting pressures, exchanges, and at least one rejected rebuttal submission written by Jesuit Fr. Peter F. Ryan, the Vatican finally mandated that Theological Studies publish -- unedited -- an essay coauthored by Ryan and theologian Germain Grisez titled “Indissoluble Marriage: A Reply to Kenneth Himes and James Coriden.”
Ryan is professor of moral theology at the seminary of Mount St. Mary’s University in Emmitsburg, Md.; Grisez is emeritus professor of Christian ethics at Mount St. Mary’s University.
In their essay the authors offer a vigorous defense of church teaching on marriage, saying it can never be changed. “At the risk of seeming presumptuous, we will argue that substantive revision is indeed impossible,” they write, criticizing Himes and Coriden’s arguments.
It is not unusual for Theological Studies to publish a reply to an essay. Normally, however, such replies run half the length or less of the original essay. The Ryan and Grisez reply is an exception, running the length of a full article.
Schultenover took over as editor in chief at Theological Studies in January 2006, succeeding Jesuit Fr. Michael Fahey, who served 10 years in the position. Theological Studies says it has subscribers in some 80 countries. It has a Jesuit board of directors and 13 editorial consultants who assist Schultenover by reading and helping to choose manuscripts. The journal says it typically receives some 200 unsolicited submissions yearly, of which some 35 are published.
This is not the first time the Vatican has placed significant pressure on a U.S.-based Jesuit publication. In May 2005, Jesuit Fr. Thomas J. Reese, editor of America magazine, resigned at the request of his order following years of pressure for his ouster from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In that instance, the Vatican also said America had strayed too far from official church teachings.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith did not respond to NCR questions regarding Theological Studies.
[Thomas C. Fox is NCR editor and can be reached at tfox@ncronline.org.]
It is time for Catholic
It is time for Catholic Theologians to divorce themselves from the pressures of the Vatican. To do less would push them away from studying and writing about truth. The idea that the Vatican has infallible control over theology (also science, medicine, history and philosophy) is preposterous and is only further imploding the Roman institution from within. The idea that the Roman Church is Catholic or Universal and that Rome itself makes all the decisions passed with the Vatican States. It is time for theologians and Catholic Universities to step up as did St. Joseph Hospital in Phoenix and tell the tyrants a firm NO. It is time for the People of God to understand that to be Catholic does not include the action of being a paying member of the Roman Church that has become more cultish each day.
To Dr. Porch, AMEN!! AMEN!!
To Dr. Porch,
AMEN!! AMEN!!
There is a good reason why we
There is a good reason why we have separation of Church and State in this country. The same rationale applies to theologians and the vatican. Scholarship is defeated when regulated by bureaucrats. The 'universal' church is an application, which refers to the church in the 4th and 5th century when Rome usurped all authority and rid itself of the nuisances of having patriarchs in Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria. There cannot possibly be any change without dissent. The legacy of the church is intoleration not progress, not learning...a reactionary church just says NO.
I am a Dutch immigrant
I am a Dutch immigrant (Legal) to this country and it seems to me that this country has not got a clue about what separation of church and state means. I don't know what is more divisive: religion or politics. Both are taken to an extreme by many.
At the moment we have
At the moment we have religious politics and political religion. The people who can be put into those two categories are probably the same people and they probably do not know what separation of church and state means. I don't know how many people belong to that divisive group, but they certainly are vocal, get a lot of media attention and seem to be well funded. I'm hoping that there are "some" rather than "many" who take both politics and religion to the extreme.
Indeed, it is long time for
Indeed, it is long time for them to divorce themselves from the pressures of the Vatican - they should try a conventicle that suits their theology and doctrine. Of course, they would get less attention there. Its always reassuring that NCR pulls out the regular verbiage from John Thiel and Charles Curran for every other article to remind the faithful of the old canard about the difference between theology and catechism. Whiney liberals are boring - they simply pontificate from the talking points of NY Times. Their ilk would not have lasted a day under the commies under whom many courageous theologians died for truth and obedience. If you want an inspiration in faith and fidelity (yes for Catholics those are actually connected) look to the life of Cardinal Ján Chryzostom Korec, Bishop of Nitra (Slovak Republic). At the age of 27 this Jesuit clandestinely received episcopal ordination under the Commies - the youngest bishop ever in the world. Working in a factory for nine consecutive years, he carried on his priestly mission and that of bishop without being discovered by anyone. He was a brother to all. Arrested in 1960, he continued to be the friend of all in prison, and for twelve years he celebrated Mass every day while in prison "There is a man in Bratislava whom the atheist Communist party fears. He is called Ján Korec and he works as an ordinary laborer in a large factory. Although he suffers from asthma he was forced to do heavy labor: to load and unload large drums of tar daily." The Jesuits have many such saints in there history who take up the via crucis in total obedience to the successor of Peter. They inspire.
It is clear you click your
It is clear you click your heels, lock step with the Vatican. Perhaps you will be named the next pope and can call the shots.
Open your eyes and look around once and a while and you will notice truth is not owned by the Vatican. Truth is not owned by anyone. To let yourself be controlled by a small group of self proclaimed demigods is to altogether lose responsibility for your own soul.
Think about it!
Dear Ken George, Yes, I do
Dear Ken George,
Yes, I do try to walk in step with Church teaching, which actually does involve a lot of thinking. I realize Truth is not owned by anyone, but is rather a person whom Catholics believe established a hierarchically constituted Church that teaches truth about the Truth. In any case, this involves thinking about how the nuptial mystery of Christ's union with his Church is effected in the actually reality of the Church today. That is called ecclesiology - thinking theologically about the Church. Theological reflection about the Church involves more than a mindless, knee-jerk, NY times response about throwing off the dead hand of the Church and thinking for yourself and not listing to "a small group of self proclaimed demigods." Thinking for yourself about the mystery of the Church involves real study and reading - I heartily endorse it!
Jesus did not establish "a
Jesus did not establish "a hierarchically constituted Church". Talk about an ahistorical "truth"!
And your reference to "the nuptial mystery of Christ's union with his Church"???
Ew.
You said it, Joseph. It was
You said it, Joseph. It was the hierarchy that established itself, and that acts to protect itself at all costs. The hierarchy is not the Church, not my Church.
why we need theologians . .
why we need theologians . . .
to teach us, not to pull the wool over our eyes to control and manipulate us in darkness
as this Vatican has since "the Year of Three Popes"
Dear GBP, If you are thinking
Dear GBP,
If you are thinking then you know that truth is too complicated for anyone to know all truth unless of course that was the All Mighty. If you are thinking, then you know that the Holy Spirit inspires not only the clergy but theologians (clerical or not), scientists, historians, philosophers. Yes the Spirit will whisper where she may. Therefore the idea that you can study THE TRUTH by reading purely church sources would be idiocy. Yes the Spirit inspires all not just those who believe they have Roman authoritarian power to control leadership. Christ was not a Roman and he did not authorize the form of tyrannical leadership that comes from the Vatican.
So since you are a thinker, you must already understand that truth lies where one finds it and you must continue to consider all the sources. Anyone who claims to have THE source of truth simply is deceiving themselves and trying to deceive others. Since you are a thinker, please consider ALL sources carefully. And afterwards ask the Vatican and its Bishops to do the same thing and to quit attempting to tyrannically make false claims.
R. Dennis Porch, MD
Irvine, CA
It seems to me that the
It seems to me that the Vatican confuses a description of truth with truth itself.
ARB
Your story of Cardinal Korec
Your story of Cardinal Korec is inspiring but irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely, the proper role of theologians in exploring the frontiers of faith and asking the "questions on the edge".
It should not only be the job
It should not only be the job of theologians to "probe the frontiers of faith" but to reconsider all the old territory from mythological, pre-science, and contra-science times up until now. And no thought or research can be honest when there are fences of any kind erected against its free pursuit. In theology, there are no illegal immigrants. The so-called Manifest Destiny of white Europeans to invade the American continent and push out the Indians and Hispanics, evil as it was, has no place in theology. In theology, all people, not just the professionals, must wander freely, consider what they discover in their existence, and choose that which fits the evolution of "faith, hope, and the greatest of these, charity." That was the way Jesus did his theology. Benedict should imitate him. Benedict's problem is that he is convinced he knows it all. That makes God small, indeed, and it erects improper fences at the "frontiers" of the search for God.
I know a former priest from
I know a former priest from Slowakia. The reason why he became a catholic priest was his admiration for a catholic priest who was an opponent of the communist regime; he then went to Rome to study; the reason why he gave up his priesthood was that he realized that the vatican regime was pretty similar to the communist one in being totalitarian; he found out that he had only changed clothes... think about that
May I just add that there is
May I just add that there is no such entity as a 'former' priest. Nor could anyone 'give up' his priesthood. Each priest is ordained 'a priest forever.' The word 'forever' means 'forever,' not just some temporary period of time after which a person might decide however validly that he wished no longer to serve actively as a priest.
Rather, in that case, he would become a 'not presently active priest.' Those priests who have left the active ministry and been laicized, so that under the current Church law of celibacy they could be validly married, do not thereby cease being 'priests forever.' They become 'not presently active priests.' The priest in this anecdote about totalitarianism laudably gave up being a presently active priest. He did not cease being a priest.
The law of celibacy could be changed after the Pope has coffee tomorrow morning. It is absurd to think one who has been ordained a 'priest forever,' would be rendered 'not a priest' in pursuit of keeping this man-made rule, and then when it is changed (when not if) would become a 'priest forever' again.
Moreover, it has been the constant teaching of the Church that a priest, upon ordination, receives the indelible mark of that sacrament on his soul. Again, 'indelible' is 'indelible.' There is no sense using the word unless we adhere to its basic meaning.
So to put this clearly: there is no power on the face of the earth that can make someone who is a "priest forever" no longer be a priest. None. Period.
Then what is laization (sp ?)
Then what is laization (sp ?) about?
What's your real point? That
What's your real point? That you disagree with the opinion of these writers. No one questions the courage of those priests and bishops who served the Church behind the Iron Curtain during those years of the Cold War. However, you forget the Churches persecution and worse of those who dared correctly stray from Church orthodoxy in earlier times. Your ad hominem attack on those who today question questionable Church orthodoxy leads me to believe todays' dissenters would fair no better under you than those who you profess to admire did under Communism.
The point of the story of the
The point of the story of the Confessor Cardinal was that he models a theologian living the "frontiers of faith" and exploring the "questions on the edge" by resisting calls to dissent, disobedience, and infidelity to Rome no matter what the personal cost. Conformity to prevailing cultural dictates of "group think" was forced by the Communists through violence and coercion. In the West this conformity to prevailing cultural dictates is offered in a more shrewd fashion. (Think of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's Harvard Commencement speech.) If you want a cushy Catholic Chair at a major university with lots of perks, honour, and prestige (think of nearly every past president of the catholic theological society of america) simply publish popular articles with talking points taken from the NY Times and adopt socially "progressive" positions while publicly criticizing official Church teaching on the subject matter. I would challenge you to name prestigious chairs in Catholic theology at major research universities that do not kowtow to an aggressively secular agenda. And BTW to challenge one's commitments to secularism is not an ad hominem attack; what is ad hominem is your suggestion that I would use violence to convince people of my opinion.
BRAVO! My feellings too!
BRAVO! My feellings too!
Glad to hear about your
Glad to hear about your feelings. Now submit your will and intellect to the decisions of the Holy Office/CDF.
For those of us who wish to
For those of us who wish to employ our God-given capacity to think, it'll be a cold day in hell before we allow ourselves to become Vatican lackeys.
Thanks, but no thanks, Pastor "John N".
But what if the CDF is
But what if the CDF is contradicting itself? The magisterium recognizes the validity of the sacraments in the five branches of the Orthodox Church. Yet the Greek Orthodox allow for one divorce and remarriage. Either that second marriage is valid or it isn't.
This practice of the Greek Orthodox is the only one known to me. The others -Serbian Orthdox, Russian Orthodox, etc. - may do likewise, but I don't know.
Fr. John N., why did you feel it necessary to use a name (Holy Office) that's been out of use for some time? It wasn't changed by liberals, but by the Vatican.
Also, why do you use the title 'Father' when Jesus clearly enjoins us not to use that form of address? What must he be thinking when some are called Your Excellence, Your Eminence and Your Holiness? I'll bet he's laughing at this silliness.
"I'll bet [Jesus is] laughing
"I'll bet [Jesus is] laughing at this silliness."
You are being much too kind.
I suspect Jesus is weeping.
We also recognize the
We also recognize the validity of Protestant and pagan weddings, so long as the parties are free to marry. Your attempt at making a point fails abjectly. Divorce and remarriage is forbidden and therefore invalid. We would never recognize the second marriage until the first is proven invalid.
I don't understand your discomfort with the term "Holy Office." (The palace in which they are located still bears the name). I included it to provide for historical context that the decrees from that office have always been definitive. Perhaps I should have also included its oldest name: "Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition."
Holy Mother Church entrusts to me the title of Father. The Church's liturgy instructs the servers in the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar to call me Father "...tibi Pater..." "...te Pater..." Who do you think you are, my child, to argue otherwise?
"Divorce and remarriage is
"Divorce and remarriage is forbidden and therefore invalid until the politician pays a substantial fee to obtain an annulment, which is available even for decades-long marriages that produced children."
There, I fixed it for you.
Hypocrites. One set of rules for the rich and powerful, another for everyone else. No wonder you've lost respect and moral authority.
The submission of the
The submission of the intellect and the will to God who reveals and whose revelation is preserved and proclaimed by the Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church, is called Faith. By Faith the intellect grasps truths that do not go against reason but are beyond it. This "surrender" of the intellect which characterizes Faith is not a blind acceptance of contradictions but of adhesion to truths which cannot be known by reason alone unaided by grace.
But from whom do we receive the truths of Faith? The Catholic Church. And the Pope and the Bishops united to him constitute its Teaching Authority. To deny this is the very essence of Protestantism.
Submitted by Father John N.
Submitted by Father John N. (not verified) on Aug. 29, 2011.
"Glad to hear about your feelings. Now submit your will and intellect to the decisions of the Holy Office/CDF..."
...and above all, ignore that foolishness called Conscience.
I am sure God in His All wise
I am sure God in His All wise and All inclusive will condone the Vatican's
claim of exclusiveness.
You raise a strong point
You raise a strong point about appropriate resistance to Vatican pressure, and reestablishing the "sensus fidelium" (sense of the faithful) in the hierarchy's minds. But perhaps to help clarify why theologians haven't taken that route, as someone currently pursuing her second graduate degree in Catholic theology, it might help to realize the price individual theologians inevitably pay for public dissent. You may note that Fr. Charles Curran, mentioned in the article, teaches at a Methodist university--he's been forbidden from teaching at Catholic institutions. Most of us who have dedicated years of our lives to learning about Catholic theology have the desire to share it in a Catholic setting, or with other Catholics.
As much as we hate the warts on our church, we love it also. It's difficult to break from an institution when you've seen it do tremendous deeds of justice and mercy, in addition to its many failings.
What you ask may indeed come to pass. But what you ask is hard.
Might it be that in a not too
Might it be that in a not too distant future, we will find our best Catholic theologians in non-Catholic colleges and universities?
This is already the case, and
This is already the case, and several of those best Catholic theologians have become Anglicans.
Thank you Dr. Porch for your
Thank you Dr. Porch for your great obituary written about the late, great Church of Rome. Quickly the senile triumvirate of dictators (Ratzinger, Sodano, and Bertone)and their tools working in the Vatican's dicasteries sailing Peter's barque are scuttling her and dragging her below the waves.
I fear the Jesuits must now disassociate themselves from Rome after this incident. They have no choice, in order to maintain their venerable prestige but to continue their theological scholarship within a world-wide academic forum totally freed from Benedict's repression at any and all levels, and his assault upon the very right to scholarly inquiry without interference.
He's launched a full frontal attack upon the whole idea of the market place of ideas. If this "Benedictine" Inquisition was ever at war with the Enlightenment and the modern Church, as exemplified by Vatican II and its reluctant plunge into the 21st century, we see it underscored here. Any doubts have now been removed.
Actually, the people who
Actually, the people who caved here were not acting as theologians, but editors of a theological journal. No one dictated what they had to write on any given subject. Rome demanded equal time for their point of view -- and did so from a community (Jesuits) who take a special vow of obedience to the pope.
Rome demanded equal time for
Rome demanded equal time for their point of view -- and did so from a community (Jesuits) who take a special vow of obedience to the pope.
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Rome DEMANDS equal time? Which underlines my original points. Using the old canard that this Jesuit publication owes Rome "equal time" out of obedience to the Holy See doesn't wash in any modern scholarly enterprise or a forum in which theologians can freely express themselves. Hopefully, all American scholarly associations will have something to say about this within an American academic context, and move to deny accreditation to any Catholic institution which continually caves to Vatican or local episcopal pressure of this type.
It's now very clear, the Society of Jesus needs to think of dissolving any further allegiance to the See of Rome. It's service to the pope and the Church has ended.
The Second Great Reformation, "step by step".
The Council of Trent
The Council of Trent condemned any belief in divorce with anathema. It unlike some matters of birth control for example is not susceptible of change or frontier development due to a dogmatic Council condemning it by anathema. Did you give your children freedom to do absolutely everything when they were young? The Church stays away from TS when it deals with the unsettled. This is shown by its non interference in the debates had there on whether the early embryo could possibly be ensouled or not.
Actually the best views seemed to say that identical twinning at day 14 (c.) made that unlikely as did the chimeric individual.
Yet Rome did not interfere. But on divorce, Rome did and should because divorce is a case closed....see Casti C. for Pius XI on that in sections 88 and 89.
I'd appreciate it if Bill
I'd appreciate it if Bill Bannon could give us a direct quote of the Council of Trent's anathema regarding divorce so readers can know what said Council said exactly.
I remind the writer that only
I remind the writer that only Catholic children are children. For Benedict or anyone else to treat any Catholics who have reach mature reasoning as children is a totally inappropriate metaphor. God is larger than all popes, all church councils, and anyone who presumes the right to anathematize conscience rather than respect its sacred right is opposing yet another council, if that matters, the most recent of all, the Second Vatican Council.
Perhaps with as strong a
Perhaps with as strong a disagreement as you have with the Church, you may be happier being Lutherans. If you despise following the successor of Peter then it would be better to leave, than to try and carry other souls to Hell with you.
So you speak for the
So you speak for the Almighty? Do you talk to God on a cell phone or a land line? No man speaks for God, no one, including the Bishops.
Are you saying that being
Are you saying that being happy is the criterion you advise people to base religious decisions on?
Maybe you're right. It never occurred to me before.
Yes! Please, go find a place
Yes! Please, go find a place that welcomes your particular brand of theology, which is at odds with the RC Church.
Adolfo on Aug. 30, 2011.
Adolfo on Aug. 30, 2011.
You stated:
"Yes! Please, go find a place that welcomes your particular brand of theology, which is at odds with the RC Church."
----------------------------------------------
We were baptized into the FAMILY---the People of God, and the Catholic Church. In any large family, there are individuals with whom one does not always agree. Just because some of the elder members (Pope, Curia, and some bishops) are a batch of 'ecclesiastical fruit and nutcakes'---doesn't mean that individuals give up upon the Catholic Church.
From the way you are speaking, you don't seem to know that there are many 'particular brands of theology' within the Catholic Church. Are you aware of the Eastern varieties that are also bona fide?
Congratulations Porch and
Congratulations Porch and those who applaud and repeat your opinion for winning the 'Heretical Statement of the Day Award. Yay!
The speaker is correct in saying that it is not the duty of theology to restate doctrine, but he is incorrect in believing that a Catholic Journal can give a pulpit to heresy, or to suggest that the Church changes what cannot be changed, or open a door to scandal.
Thank you CDF and those at the Journal who are humble of heart!
Yoseph M. Daviyd
It is time for those
It is time for those dissident Catholics to leave the Church. Go join the Episcopalians. Oh, and not the ones who wish to recommunicate with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church after nearly 500 years.
You are protestants in nature, become them in name, please.
Amen!!!
Amen!!!
Wow. Look at this. I'd hate
Wow. Look at this. I'd hate to be a child in your family.
The Catholic Church was never
The Catholic Church was never in greater need in 450 years of more good dissidents than it is now. They surely are in short supply from the lower and higher clergy.
Just as this pope returns to the days of the Inquisition. Perhaps, returning to using the Index of Forbidden Books, and relies upon priest craft of every type to control the unquestioning sheep who remain as Benedict's strongest allies.
And God bless you, too,
And God bless you, too, "Dromig10".
For theologians to call
For theologians to call themselves Catholic while denying divinely revealed truth as clearly put forth by the Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church is certainly sad, if not tragic. Instead of defending the Faith, some theologians set out to destroy it. But Christ has given us his word: "The gates of hell shall not prevail".
By all means -- divorce
By all means -- divorce yourself.
The Catholic Church is not a prison.
If you wish to divorce yourself from her -- you are free to declare said divorce and leave.
As for me and my house -- we, the People of God -- shall follow our God and not you. I re-affirm my love for God's Holy Catholic Church. The Church He founded on Saint Peter.
You can found any other church you wish and base it upon the foundation of a university or a scholarly journal. Go for it!
Actually... it is time for
Actually... it is time for Catholic Theologians to be CATHOLIC!
The Vatican, and in
The Vatican, and in particular, the pope in unison with bishops has sole right to decide what's "Catholic" bub. If you can't stand the correction, or the lack of "input" - for Pete's sake, join another church! Stop spreading untruths, lies and ignorance about the structure of the Church. Or, hopefully someone will throw you out. It ain't a democracy, it's a papacy. Good God in Heaven! Where the hell do you morons learn your cathecism? A box of freaking Cracker Jacks? The Catholic Church has had the same operating plan for 2000+ years - I think it can get along just fine without one more arrogant, self-deluded twit like you.
Well, if it took the Vatican
Well, if it took the Vatican seven years to formulate a reply to the 2004 article I wonder how long their reply to Sr. Johnson is going to take! :)
Cheers,
I have read Sr. E. Johnson's
I have read Sr. E. Johnson's 38 page rebuttal and it is a fine,cogent writing very much like her book. Unfortunately, the 9 Bishops to whom it is address, will probably not find time to read it, or perhaps if they did, I doubt they would understand it.
Yes, but 7 years without
Yes, but 7 years without boredom is a blessing,ain't it? How absolutely grand that Quest for the living God will be a best seller, quaintly by courtesy of CDF. Glory be to God, as we Irish are wont to say!
More power to your elbow Des
It should be clearly
It should be clearly understood that the last surviving absolute monarchy of the West is not bound by any rules of propriety or any other kind. The Vatican sets the rules--and they have nothing to do with Jesus.
"Theological Studies" should
"Theological Studies" should maintain its printed quarterly---as the official publication. But "Theological Studies" should begin an on-line version of itself---to permit those theologians "working on the frontiers" an opportunity to get their ideas out to their peers.
Isn't there an American Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of press? These Rights are being violated by a foreign sovereign city-state.
"These Rights are being
"These Rights are being violated by a foreign sovereign city-state."
No, they're being violated by a Vatican church headquarters, which is afraid of the scholarly marketplace of ideas. Its lackey in Louisville, AB Kurtz, recently informed me (in so many words) that he will not allow publication of readers' letters in the local church newspaper that express disagreement with official church teaching --- apparently even non-infallible teaching.
TO MY FELLOW CATHOLICS STILL IN THE CHURCH OF ROME:
When you put your money in the weekly parish collection plate, you are very, very much enabling this kind of dysfunctional behavior by our hierarchs, both in your home diocese as well as in the Vatican.
Stop the insanity.
Divert your contributions to other causes, Catholic and/or not, that help people in need. God knows, there are millions of our fellow human beings who can use your help right now. Stop funding this Roman foolishness. If you and fellow parishioners cannot (or will not) set up separate parish accounts, not touchable by the bishops, to handle ongoing parish expenses (utilities, salaries, charity), then worship together in parishioners' homes.
Hold your bishop accountable, and tell him that you expect him to hold Rome accountable.
There should be no room for censorship in the Church of Rome.
It's long past time for this ecclesiastical crap to stop!!!
While I am sympathetic to
While I am sympathetic to what you say here, I do have an objection. As a Pastor of a small suburban parish that does a great deal of outreach to homeless, homebound, poor, etc., I have found that making "a statemnt" by withholding monies hurts the local Church more that the "hierarcs"! With a little "inenuity" you can support your local parish programs in ways that are not "taxed" by downtown!
I'm for any arrangement that
I'm for any arrangement that does not involve turning parish monies --- any amount --- over to the bishop.
Any money you put into the
Any money you put into the collection plate unless it's designated in some way for spending on specific projects at the parish (such as a construction project) is the property of the bishop. Period.
Unfortunately, no one is
Unfortunately, no one is violating the free speech rights - the problem is that the editor of Theological Studies caved in to Vatican pressure. Truth be told, he should have stood firm on his moral convictions.
The Vatican can pressure all they want, but they have no direct control over the Journal. A campaign of respectful disobedience is all that would have been required. The editor should have stood by the previously established standard of the Journal and demanded that the essay be treated like any other submission.
Why are we so gutless?
The sacrament of Lobotomy
The sacrament of Lobotomy will henceforth be performed immediately prior to Baptism.
Got a good laugh out of this
Got a good laugh out of this one! Thanks!!
Yes, "lobotomy" -the new
Yes, "lobotomy" -the new circumcision. Since the church is preoccuppied with sex and obedience and the "mind" is the centre of both....
And the Vatican is performing
And the Vatican is performing it time and time again. This is not the church of Jesus but dictatorship in full bloom!
I love the phrase!
Don't give Bennie any ideas!
Don't give Bennie any ideas!
..and if you left &want to
..and if you left &want to come back?
Catholics Come Home
Catholics come home
Catholics come back
Just leave your brain
In the rack at the back
Come back to the sweetness of Jesus
And all the trappings of yore
Come back to your Holy Mother
Just leave your brain at the door
And don’t come back with your conscience
It’s bound to be wrong that’s for sure
Deposit it ever so deftly
On the rack with your brain by the door
I’ll issue you each with a Conscience
Made simple and perfectly clear
More updates will follow with promptness
Once every third or fourth year
So come back to the church of your childhood
To your Mother so Holy and Pure
Come back to the Church of the Remnant
Just leave your brain at the door.
Benikira
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