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PDF versionU.S. Catholic ordinariate for former Anglicans formed
Former Episcopal bishop to head it
Jan. 02, 2012
Detail from the new ordinate website
WASHINGTON — Pope Benedict XVI established a new nationwide U.S. ordinariate Jan. 1 for U.S. Anglicans (Episcopalians) who wish to become Catholic. He named Fr. Jeffrey N. Steenson, a Catholic theology professor in Houston and former Episcopal bishop, as its first head.
The new Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter will be based in Houston, according to Jan. 1 announcements released in Rome and Washington.
In a news release on its new Web site http://www.usordinariate.org/index.html the ordinariate said that more than 100 Anglican priests in the United States and nearly 1,400 individuals from 22 communities are seeking to enter the Catholic Church as part of the ordinariate. Two of those communities entered into full communion with the Catholic Church this past fall after a period of preparation.
After 28 years of ministry in the Church of England and the U.S. Episcopal Church, in 2007 Steenson and his wife became Catholic. He was ordained a Catholic priest in 2009 and was instrumental in establishing the formation program for Anglican priests applying for Catholic priesthood as part of the ordinariate, which has been in the planning stages for the past two years.
Fr. SteensonSteenson is currently a professor of patristics, the study of the early Christian theologians known as the Fathers of the Church, at the University of St. Thomas and St. Mary's Seminary in Houston.
The ordinariate will be in charge of parishes of Anglican use across the country – where former Anglicans now in full communion with the Catholic Church will be allowed to retain some of their Anglican liturgical and other traditions, most notably incorporation of many elements of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer in the 2003 Book of Divine Worship.
That official Catholic liturgical book for use in formerly Anglican communities was first developed in 1983 and revised in 2003.
As an ordinary, Steenson becomes a voting member of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, although he cannot be ordained a bishop because he is married. He and his wife have three grown children and a grandchild.
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The U.S. ordinariate is the second to be formed in the world in response to requests from many Anglican priests and laity seeking to join the Catholic Church in recent years. The first, formed Jan. 15, 2011, is the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham in England and Wales.
Recurring movements of Anglo-Catholicism have long been an undercurrent in the Anglican Church, most notably, in the more distant past, the Oxford Movement of the mid-19th century, which sought to restore lost practices of ancient Christianity to the Anglican Church under the concept that it was one of the three branches [Eastern Catholics, Roman Catholics and Anglican Catholics] of the Catholic Church.
For Roman Catholic history, the most notable figure in the Oxford Movement was an Anglican theologian and cleric, John Henry Newman, who gradually found the three-branch concept inadequate and became a Catholic – and eventually a cardinal and one of the greatest Catholic theologians of the 19th century.
More recent Anglican movements towards reunion with Rome have stemmed not only from more classical doctrinal and theological arguments, but from reactions to movements and official actions within the Anglican Communion that a number of Anglicans consider contrary to authentic Catholic Christian belief and practice, such as the ordination of women as priests and bishops, the ordination of openly practicing homosexuals and the blessing of homosexual unions as marriages.
In 1980 the Catholic Church responded to requests from U.S. Episcopal priests and laity for reunion with Rome when Pope John Paul II issued a pastoral provision allowing for married or unmarried Episcopal priests in the United States to become Catholic priests after proper new formation.
Such converts re-ordained as Catholic priests were allowed to hold most church offices and perform other priestly functions in the church including regular pastoral ministry in parishes, but for the most part they were not allowed to become pastors.
But some priests who came in with a sufficient following of members of their former Episcopal parish were allowed to form and be pastors of Catholic parishes of Anglican Use, utilizing many Anglican worship traditions from the Book of Common Prayer for Mass, Liturgy of the Hours and other services, adapted where necessary for appropriate Catholic practice.
More than a dozen Catholic communities of Anglican Use have been formed under that pastoral provision since 1980, including several that are full-fledged parishes. An unofficial Wikipedia list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Use lists 15 such U.S. communities.
In the ordinariate's news releases on its establishment, it also announced that Fr. Scott Hurd, a priest of the Archdiocese of Washington and a former Anglican priest, will serve a three-year term as vicar general of the new ordinariate.
Last November, when Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl of Washington announced at a press conference during the U.S. bishops' fall meeting in Baltimore that the U.S. Anglican ordinariate would be established Jan. 1, it was not entirely clear from his remarks whether the current Anglican Use parishes around the country – then under the jurisdiction of their local Latin Catholic dioceses – would be transferred to the jurisdiction of the ordinariate, either by petition or automatically. Wuerl at the time was head of an ad hoc committee charged with overseeing formation of the U.S. ordinariate.
Wuerl said Jan. 1, "As the former Episcopal bishop of the Rio Grande [covering New Mexico and western parts of Texas], Fr. Steenson brings to the position of ordinary great pastoral and administrative experience, along with his gifts as a theologian."
The 30-year U.S. experience with pastoral provisions for Anglican priests and communities seeking full communion with the Catholic Church paved the way on many practical levels for Pope Benedict's 2009 apostolic constitution, Anglicanorum Coetibus, ("Groups of Anglicans") which set out provisions for how communities of Anglicans – including members of parishes or of vowed religious communities – could enter into full communion with the Catholic Church and at the same time preserve important elements of their liturgical and devotional life developed since the 16th-century break of the Church of England with Rome.
[Jerry Filteau is NCR Washington Correspondent.]
A question regarding this new
A question regarding this new Anglican usage ordinariate. How does one who is an ordinary Roman Catholic relate to these new "Anglican" yet Roman parishes. Is a Roman Catholic layman allowed to join such a parish or may he or she simply attend Mass in that Rite?
Very good question. I have
Very good question. I have another...could this be an end-run around priestly celibacy?? (among others)
Uh, no. Just like the Eastern
Uh, no. Just like the Eastern Rites are not a run around celibacy for men born into the Roman rite. Absent an extraordinary dispensation from the Pope, a man born into the Roman rite cannot convert to an Eastern rite and become a priest. I don't know if the Anglican Ordinariate will be open to Roman Catholics who wish to affiliate with it. But one can be sure that the Church will not allow a Roman rite Catholic to join and become a non-celibate priest (again, absent perhaps some extraordinary circumstance).
Actually, any member of a
Actually, any member of a given church in communion with Rome *can* transfer his membership to another sui juris church. Thus, a Roman man, with approval of his ordinary, may petition, say, a Ruthenian bishop to essentially change rites. From that point on there would be no impediment to his ordination. In fact, I know of at least one man who was born in the Roman rite, but has since become a married Uniate priest.
The situation, though, is not entirely analogous. The Anglican Ordinariate is part of the Roman Catholic Church. It is not sui juris and its members are not "Anglican Catholics." Rather, they are Roman Catholics who belong to a particular community privileged with the use of Anglican liturgics. In a way, it is closer to the situation of Ecclesia Dei Indult communities that existed before Summorum Pontificum was released.
It is my understanding that "regular" Romans will not be able to "switch" to the Anglican option officially. They may communicate, of course, at Anglican Use liturgies, but they will be prevented from taking advantage of this arrangement to become married priests, etc.
A very good question.
A very good question. Especially since they are being allowed to retain some elements of their liturgy. We might find it more welcoming than ours.
First of all, that parish
First of all, that parish would have to be "High Church" if you're going to be calling it "Mass." Secondly, why should those churches moving in toto into Catholicism--and in no way does it deserve to be called ecumenism--be allowed to design their own English for their own rites, yet other English-speaking people of every different variety, were just recently ordered by the Vatican to use the distorted, literal translation of dead Latin into one, awful version of pseudo-English? You know, nonsense like "consubstantial." That is so vernacular! That is so English!
gilhow The Anglicans use the
gilhow The Anglicans use the Sarum Liturgy.
And their English is closer to what is now in use than the banal 1970 translation.
The bigger issue and the one
The bigger issue and the one that is most distasteful to me is why this ordinariate was created for Anglicans, i.e. to escape from women and gay priests. I'm not running to any Anglican Ordinariate so I don't have to say the word "consubstantial" or because of a married Anglican priest. But despite the distasteful reasons behind the creation of this Ordinariate, it will,I am sure, have unintended consequences. I trust entirely in the workings of the Holy Spirit, whose wisdom surpasses even the Pope's attempts at manipulating this scenario.
The distinction between
The distinction between so-called high-church and low-church Episcopalians has long ago blurred. The celebration of the Holy Eucharist may be referred to as the Mass or not, depending on individual choice; some use the terms interchangeably. The prayers are identical, though Rite 1 uses thees and thous and Rite 2 uses more modern English. I especially like Rite 1 for funerals. My nominally low-to-medium church parish, for instance, uses incense and bells on great feast days, but not most Sundays. The appointed Psalm is chanted almost every Sunday at the 11:00 Eucharist/Mass, but not at Eucharists when there is no choir. It that sense, it's not much different from what was done at my former Catholic parish; except, of course, the homilies are vastly superior. I can't explain why so many Catholic priests do not preach worth a toot and so many Episcopal priests do.
The largest and by far the
The largest and by far the most flourishing Anglican Use Parish in the US, Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio/TX has many members, probably the majority, who were never Anglicans, but came to them from other Latin Rite parishes, or who entered the Catholic Church through Our Lady of the Atonement.
Anonymous, the answer to your
Anonymous, the answer to your excellent question will present quite a problem for the US bishops. I wonder what might very well become apparent three to four years from now, my guess is even sooner, as the Ordinariate settles down. NCR, I believe this could turn out to be quite a story?
It is certainly fine and
It is certainly fine and acceptable to attend Mass at an Anglican Use Parish. (Canonically, I am officially Roman, but actively participate in a Melkite parish). However,(and I am uncertain on this point, not being a trained canonist) to canonically switch from being a Roman Catholic to a Catholic of the Anglican Ordinariate (such that one is under the authority of the latter in matters such as seminary entrance3, etc.), one would have to switch with the permission of both your current bishop and the Anglican ordinariate, which is usually only given if a family member is a member. I believe I heard one canonist say that Roman Catholics could have their children baptized into the Anglican Ordinariate, and then canonically join themselves. Like I said, I am uncertain about the details, you would have to contact your local Anglican Use Catholic Parish if you desire to switch canonically, though Anglican Use Mass will certainly fulfill your Sunday obligation.
Good question. I have long
Good question. I have long known and loved the beautiful language and prayers in the Book of Common Prayer and might be sorely tempted to switch to the Anglican usage ordinariate should that be possible.
Fr. Steenson says a
Fr. Steenson says a Latin-rite Catholic may participate in the life and worship of a parish or community of the new ordinariate but may not join it as a member. When I asked about joining through marriage Fr. Hurt said if a Latin-rite person and someone who belongs to the ordinariate should marry, it would be up to them to discern how to handle it, but yes, the Latin-rite person could become a member of the Anglican-use community through marriage.
My only question is to wonder
My only question is to wonder why you would want to join such a parish. I really would like to know.
Dear Anonymous, Why do you
Dear Anonymous,
Why do you have the need to ask permission?
In response to the above
In response to the above comment. Full disclosure-- I'm an Anglican priest entering the Ordinariate and in no way a canon lawyer. My understanding is that membership in the parishes is to be only for former Anglicans (or other Protestants in some way connected to Anglicanism, which is about all of them to some degree) who enter the Catholic Church with the community, Catholic former Anglicans who converted prior to the establishment of the Ordinariate and wish to affiliate with an Ordinariate community, converts to Catholicism who enter the Church through the Ordinariate parish once it is received, and Catholic family members of the above. While the parallel is not exact, think of the way Eastern Rite and Latin Rite Catholics can attend each others' parishes. So, anyone can attend and any Catholic can receive the sacraments, but matters of marriage and ordination must be dealt with through one's own jurisdiction.
God bless
Well, however you came to be
Well, however you came to be here, Fr. Anonymous, welcome. If you don't mind my asking, why are you choosing to leave the Episcopalian church and join the Catholic church?
No! As I know the Ordinariate
No! As I know the Ordinariate is only for former Anglicans. And with the time and the small number of former Anglicans interested on it, I think that it will likely disappear, and their people will likely join regular parishes.
The ordinariate operates
The ordinariate operates similarly to the military ordinariate in that it is not geographical but personal. It is also similar in some ways to an Eastern eparchy. Any Catholic would be free to attend but formal membership would be limited to former Anglicans. If there were either an eastern rite or anglican use parish near me I would attend every Sunday as their liturgies are much better than the typical Catholic-lite folk liturgies in the area.
These ordinariates are still
These ordinariates are still considered part of the Latin Church (ie, Roman Catholic), and not a distinct Church sui iuris. Part of the rationale is the idea that the Anglican liturgical patrimony is part of the Latin Rite family, rather than an entirely distinct Rite (like the Byzantine or Armenian, et al.).
That being said, any Catholic can participate in the parish life as with any other Catholic church. However to be officially part of the ordinariate: "Those baptized previously as Catholics outside the Ordinariate are not ordinarily eligible for membership, unless they are members of a family belonging to the Ordinariate." (Complementary Norms 5)
So they're part of us but
So they're part of us but they're really not??? This separation doesn't bode well....
You've heard of Greek
You've heard of Greek Catholics, right?
Thank you for this good news.
Thank you for this good news. With joy and thanksgiving to God we hear the news of the establishment of the Ordinariate the Chair of Peter. Blessed John Henry Newman and many others prayed for this reunion although they knew the time for it was still in the future. We welcome into full communion our former Anglican brothers. We have much to share with them as well as much to learn from them. The Ordinariate and its faithful will need the prayers and support which we hope to provide.
What an insult to the
What an insult to the thousands of Catholic priests who fell in love and had to leave the priesthood in order to marry and to the thousands of married Catholic laymen who cannot be ordained.
Insult? What about married
Insult?
What about married men who "fell in love" with other women?
If the priests "fell in love" they were adulterous to their bride, the Church. They failed in being loving and faithful to the Church.
Plain and simple.
Sometimes we can go overboard
Sometimes we can go overboard and take the metaphor a bit too far. Otherwise - I don't know how plain you are, but....
The church is the bride of
The church is the bride of the priest (or is it the bride of Christ) and corporations are people.
You can't share an intimate life with a church or a corporation. When you have had a hard day, or your spouse has had a hard day, you can't hug a church or a corporation. You can't make love with an organization. You can't raise a family with a church or a corporation. There is a big difference between a spouse who is a human person and a spouse which is an institution.
They didn't have to leave.
They didn't have to leave. They option to NOT act on one's emotions is always available.
They gave their word. They retracted their word. While I certainly hesitate to judge any one, I also decline to throw a pity party. A married man who falls in love with another woman and acts upon it is an adulterer. A priest who falls in love is similarly spoken for already and may not act upon it.
Dear Father, Does this idea
Dear Father,
Does this idea that to have a life that is central to nature in ones body and not act on it not truly separate body from soul, natural instincts from mind? To not act on it then means that a man or woman is indeed wounded. Spirit, body and soul are one with intelligence they are not separate. When people are forced into celibacy to continue a religious vocation they suffer severe deprivation like that of huger. Many of us who have studied the ideas of celibacy understand that this depravation often causes character deprivation. Perhaps acting on ones natural sexual needs is much more important than the Roman Church realizes. It is very wrong when the clergy deny these facts and Richard Sipe has shown that over 10% of Roman clergy become sexual abusers, and over 80% of Roman clergy break their vows of clergy in their lifetime. In fact Sipe has further shown that only 50% of Roman clergy are indeed celibate at one time. Will the Roman Church continue to deny observed facts and continue to act as if they infallibly know The Truth on every issue?
R. Dennis Porch, MD
What an insult to the
What an insult to the thousands of Catholic priests who fell in love and had to leave the priesthood in order to marry and to the thousands of married Catholic laymen who cannot be ordained.
- - - - - -
Exactly my thoughts.
I guess the Vatican needs to
I guess the Vatican needs to bolster its anti-woman, anti-gay membership since American RCs appear to be going in the other direction.
At least those who don't like the new Roman missal will have an alternative!
That is EXACLY it whitycat!
That is EXACLY it whitycat! The most unholy of motives!!
So, the desire to bring
So, the desire to bring Christians to VALID sacraments and to have them abandon heresy and schism isn't in play here at all according to you?
The entire gripe of these so
The entire gripe of these so called "ordinariates" is that women should not be ordained as priests and bishops and the marginalization of "active" homosexual people be from their Christian communities should they practice a "non-celibate" life. These are terrible reasons for the Bishop of Rome to support such a nefarious project. Shameful. These so called "Anglo Catholics" have ALWAYS had the opportunity to become Roman Catholics. To portray their cause as something desirable is to refute the teachings of the inclusive Jesus. This will come back to bite Rome and it will cause more Catholics to leave the Church and find other Christian communities. This is a black day for Catholicism.
Exactly who is this
Exactly who is this "inclusive Jesus"??
Exactly who is this
Exactly who is this "inclusive Jesus"??
___________________________
The ONE your gonna meet at the pearly gates!
You're right; I don't know
You're right; I don't know this "inclusive Jesus" and I don't think I want to, for he is not the Jesus of divine revelation who founded the Church and gave it the protection of infallibility in matters of faith and morals.
Jesus did not found the RC
Jesus did not found the RC Church as we know it!!!!!!!
I don't know this "inclusive
I don't know this "inclusive Jesus" and I don't think I want to
- - - - -
John P. Bequette
You just announced that you rather belong to the pharisees than Jesus. Sorry, but Jesus was and is inclusive. Do not lock yourself out.
Jesus said something about if you deny him he'll deny you too. There is no exclusive Jesus.
Chris Smith on Jan. 02,
Chris Smith on Jan. 02, 2012.
You stated:
"The entire gripe of these so called "ordinariates" is that women should not be ordained as priests and bishops and the marginalization of "active" homosexual people be from their Christian communities should they practice a "non-celibate" life. These are terrible reasons for the Bishop of Rome to support such a nefarious project. Shameful. These so called "Anglo Catholics" have ALWAYS had the opportunity to become Roman Catholics. To portray their cause as something desirable is to refute the teachings of the inclusive Jesus. This will come back to bite Rome and it will cause more Catholics to leave the Church and find other Christian communities. This is a black day for Catholicism."
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Chris,
You are correct. Yes---our Church is being defined as a Church of "negation".
So if one doesn't want to see women as priests? Become Catholic.
Don't want to see homosexuals marry or be able to adopt children with the
Church's blessing? Become Catholic.
Oh, I have heard that Angelican priests who are married---will only be able to do this within this generation. Young men from Angelican parishes who believe to be called to be priests---will have to be celibate.
Our Church isn't moving forward, but back toward the Council of Trent (which was a 'reactionary' council).
LittleBear, Your religion is
LittleBear, Your religion is drying up and blowing away. Get used to it. What's the average age of the members of any religious organization that you approve of?
Dear Roger, I think that
Dear Roger,
I think that Little Bear is following the true Way of Christ something that the Roman church has forgotten so I take a much different view of what is Christ's Church, The Way, is ever present now and it is in the minds of those who face a world looking for truth and understanding. There are many people all over the world who do this. Those of us that were brought up under the Roman Catholic tradition that are attempting to follow The Way of Christ have an obligation to "change the world" just as Steve Jobs did. His changes were in technology and if it were not for him, we might not be using operating systems with pull down menus or certainly have the connectivity that we all enjoy today. No Steve Jobs may have not even been a Christian. He certainly was not always a very kind man, but he made big difference in the world because he was a seeker of truth in new ideas. In so many real ways we are closer and more connected because of this man who like Edison did change the world because he was able to “think different.”
Those that would belong to The Way of Christ are seekers of truth and application of new ideas. So many ideas of the old Roman Institution of Church will have to completely topple for those followers to seek truth revealed to mankind on so many fronts. Roman Catholic leaders currently operate as deconstructors of an advancing society. It puts them in a position of coming from darkened mind set. I do not think that the Roman Catholic group of leaders or their stucture of doing things can survive as a productive type of life and be at all productive to the world mind set. I think they are committing the tragic sin of ignoring the (Holy) Spirit within so many individual contributors to our world. The censor of all the great theologians is but one of many examples. Where would we as a people be if the ideas of these men were placed in their proper perspective. No instead the Church tried to murder their minds just as the Holy Inquisition murdered bodies of “heretics.” Those that are seekers are look into the ideas of these censored men and women. I would never had read Sister Johnson’s book had the Episcopate not made such an unwarranted fuss about it.
I don't think that there will be a Rome that accepts all the changes down the road and that claims they were always of this mindset. I thing the picture of the Detroit Churches that that have been closed and are being destroyed from inside by looters is the future stucture of what we know as the “Roman” Catholic Church. Those that wish to follow The Way of Christ will coalesce behind a much more accepting structure that will wish to have leadership that is selected by the group for a small period of time and who can be fired by the group. There values will be much more as Rome calls SECULAR, for they will need to welcome the change of insight that is The Holy Spirit in each of us. This in no way a productive institution can resemble the RCC for the RCC has a darkened mind set of nature and mankind's place in nature. Remember that there is only one absolute doctrine, “Change is always inevitable.” There was a similar title on the cover of Time Magazine picturing a fetus in its amniotic fluid. So humanity knows that these changes are upon us and they are rapidly making them.
Since the attempts of Vatican II to bring the Church forward to heal the wounds and splits emanating from its philosophical center were never taken seriously by a curia headed by a shadow Pope, in the person of Cardinal Otovoni, there has been no healing in an extremely wounded church that takes the idea that mind and body are separate and must fight against each other. This is what is so wrong about idealizing celibacy. After the unfortunate death of JP I (perhaps murder of JP I), all the ideas of Vatican II were murdered as the Roman officials try to spin this great conference as something that never occurred. This is frankly one of a number of disastrous philosophical lies spewed by Rome over nearly 2 thousand years.
I don't look to a darkened mind set that we find in Rome to endure and persevere. It is in fact run by the mind set of the Star Wars evil Emperor. The Way of Christ however is alive in so many people around the world who do not fear the changes that this church refers to as "secularism."
Yes the secularists have a struggle with ethics, but it is certainly true that most all good ethical changes have come from this group, not from formal Churches or Church structure. If it were up to the Roman Church, we would still have human slavery in secular society. Perhaps the mindset of this organization of obedience to a magic stream of truth that only belongs to the Episcopacy is an attempt at enforcing a slavery of thought even today. The mind set of the Founders of the United Sates such as Benjamin Franklin were correct to put more faith in the people than the Christian concepts of truth. It is the mindset of these founders that will bring us more into a society of enlightenment. It is this mindset that dooms the murderous ideas of the Roman Otovoniists. dennis
This is a move to ensure the
This is a move to ensure the survival of Rome based on the preservation of mysogyny and a warped view of human sexuality.
Chris, I couldn't agree with
Chris, I couldn't agree with you more or have said it better. It's one thing to become Catholic for the glory of God, but something completely different to run to Catholicism to escape what your own demomination is doing to uphold the inclusiveness that Jesus was all about. Shame on our heirarchy so deeply entrenched in Rome for being so two faced!
As a former Episcopalian who
As a former Episcopalian who left that communion for Rome 33 years ago for a variety of reasons, I welcome the chance to be part of the beauty of Anglican worship without slipping off to a high church Episcopal Mass. I miss it so much. It's not a question of married/gay/women priests or bolstering the Roman position; it's about praying in English "decently and in order."
As Alice would announce, "It
As Alice would announce, "It gets reidiculouser and ridiculouser!" This turns logic into magic. It is further evidence of the "reform of the reform" led by Benedict in not only ignoring, but destroying, everything of Vatican II. That and his hidden leadership in the cover-up of the international (truly catholic) scandal of sex abuse of young people have been his most successful efforts in continuing in the footsteps of John Paul II who assured that Josef Ratzinger would follow him. To stoop to this pilfering of Angliican and Episcopalian clergy as a way of replacing clergy and lay people who have deserted Catholicism out of disgust, mainly over the awful pedophilia scandal, is contemptible and downright unethical, if not sinful. It all redounds to the Catholic hierarchical hangup on sex, again led by the Vatican. The Vatican uses empty reasoning, distortions of scripture, as excuses for requiring celibacy of its own clergy, while accepting married Anglican, Episcopal, and clergy from other denominations, and exempting their married status, in order to capture them. Those Catholics, popes included, and "ecumenical" transients hold one thing in common, their ignorance about sexual orientation and their added sexual hangups about homosexuality--you know, Ratzinger's "intrinsic disorder." There's a lesson in all this, a lesson that screams out its evidence. The clerics of a church who attempt to abandon the natural drive for sex. so many of whom were involved in harmful sexual activity with young people, and all these manipulations to exempt the sexual activity of those ordained in other communions in order to win them over and increase their numbers. That is rank clericalism!
This life on earth is not all
This life on earth is not all about sex!!! Everything in our society seems to revert to sex - religion, food, clothing, politics - you name it. We have made sex so important and we are so preoccupied with it that it has become the root of the evil in our society but God never intended it to be so...Celebacy is a higher calling because it requires discipline, something our society has abandoned at its peril...
"Celebacy is a higher calling
"Celebacy is a higher calling because it requires discipline..." I would suggest that a faithfull sacramental relationship between two individuals, either heterosexual or homosexual demands a great deal more discipline than does celibacy. The active engagement between two people in a sacramental relationship requires a level of committment to the other person which is truly a participation in God's divine activity of making us one in Him. Sexual expression in such a relationship is not merely a pleasurable activity but a demanding if joyful act of self giving to the other and like the other aspects of such a relationship requires a focus on one's parter and thus rigorous discipline and profound attentiveness to the other, which functions to bring us not only closer to our partner but to all of humanity and ultimately to the totally other, the God made known to us in the love of Jesus the Christ.
Dear Canon, Right On! Having
Dear Canon,
Right On! Having been blessed through Marriage Encounter for many years and after 47 years of a wonderful marriage (my wife died 4 years ago) I can vouch for the truth of encountering Jesus through each other. "Would you rather be 'right' or in relationship."
Celibasy is a deprivation and
Celibasy is a deprivation and there has never been any indication that it is either a higher calling or a more saintly process. In fact this deprivation leads to serious impairment of long term character as it forbids a person the intimacy with another person and the regenerative process. No wonder so many old priest turn into crabby old men without much to show for their lives. What requires discipline is to be a loving father to a family of children.
While there have been a number of exceptions to the above, they were people who worked out their lives inspire of celecasy not because of it. Kind of like going though life without an extremity.
The use of celibacy by the church had one main function and that was to keep men in line and not all the real-estate inside the church coffer. It has worked in both cases against the celibate but perhaps it works to help the institution grow in power. This power has been used not in a positive way for the people of God defending faith and teaching but against the people of God to defend the institution when it is wrong. Always think twice when a person says they are doing something for the "good of the Chruch. Do they mean to protect the Institution so it can continue to work against the spirituality of the people or does it mean that faith and spirituality are intact the reason. Most of the time when the clergy refers for the good of "mother church," they mean to protect the institution at all costs. This has nothing to do with working in The Way of Christ.
Dear Canon, Put more simply,
Dear Canon,
Put more simply, celibacy is not a sacrament.
My thoughts exactly,Knopf. If
My thoughts exactly,Knopf. If celibacy is unthinkable,so is chastity and fidelity in marriage.
Dear Knopp, I agree with you
Dear Knopp, I agree with you that our culture is over-eroticized. It has been made so to sell products and because freedom is mistakenly interpreted as licentiousness. But that's very different from sex as part of a loving, committed marriage.
I was a Catholic sister. After 36 years I left because of the mean, narrow, unkind, unloving women I had the misfortune to live with. I understand that they probably weren't loved themselves, but I also was dying emotionally. There are mature, fulfilled women in the congregation I was part of, but I didn't have the good fortune to live with them. I am still celibate, but much happier now. If you haven't gone through the emptiness of not having someone to love and be loved by, celibacy is an abstraction that you probably can't understand.
Wow, calm down. Why so
Wow, calm down. Why so concerned over sex!
In fairness, it is time for
In fairness, it is time for the Episcopal Church in the US to form a Roman Catholic Ordinariate for Catholic priests, pastors and people who want to remain Catholic in theological beliefs but cannot support a tradition/theology that excludes women, gays and married people from serving as priests; refuses the Sacramant of marriage to gays; and refuses to take science into account when determining the time when a fetus becomes a full human being (most alternative views take the appearance of brain waves as that time).
Catholic bishops, and right wing Catholics, have increasingly demanded that liberal Catholics leave the church. Should liberal, or simply open, Catholics, take them up on the offer?
I am aware that many Episcopal and Methodist parishes are made up mainly of ex-Catholics but is it time for a formal structure be established by the Episcopal church?
There are many Catholics out here who want to "come home" to a Catholic parish, but one liberated from a wrong-headed theology/rationalization for excluding good people from the priesthood and the Sacraments.
Yes,it is tempting to throw
Yes,it is tempting to throw up one's hands and quit. We are a sinful,imperfect people,regardless of our particular beliefs. We do nothing for the Body of Christ when we look for further ways to segregate ourselves.
John Mack, this is an
John Mack, this is an excellent idea. I would definitely join such a church.
It seems that far more
It seems that far more Catholics have already switched to the Episcopal church in the US. There are Episcopal members that can not bring themselves past misogynism and homophobia that really believe that gays are disordered and women belong bare foot and pregnant. These types may find a home in the RCC of Benedict. Perhaps these Anglican ordinate people believe that Benedict's ideas of Birth control are unimportant as they usually do not have large families. It will not be an even trade. Far more have left and will leave the RCC because of its severely dysfunctional and disordered leadership.
The tendency is for Catholics that truly face the human rights issues that Benedict and the curia refuse to face is to join Episcopal, progressive Lutheran, Old Catholic, Methodist Churches. With all the misbehavior of the RCC clerics it is hard for some who remain theists to join any church as they fear more "mental reservation."
It seems funny that almost 100 years ago there were many RCC missionaries in China that wanted to form a special ordinate to include much of the Chinese culture and Rome refused virtually guaranteeing that they could not recruit many members in this huge population center. Now in this struggle to keep the RCC the same no mater what theological, philosophical or scientific observations show pushes Benedict to look for more authoritarian minded people where ever he can find them-- Conservative Anglicans, Society of Pius X etc. What is also interesting that even though most Orthodox Churches remain conservative, they continue to powerfully resist the tyranny of one authoritarian leader. They remain organized by each individual authoritarian Bishop. At least this leaves a little space for growth and development because all minds do not see the revelations of the Holy Spirit from the same perspective. Thank God there are people that “think different!!”
May each one of us gain graceful understanding by faithfully listening to the whispers of the Spirit within us.
R. Dennis Porch, MD
Right you are, it is not in
Right you are, it is not in the least an even trade. We get committed and usually well-educated Catholics -- they get homosexuals, divorcees, and apostate priests.
Or, as an Anglican bishop once put it, "You get the best of ours, we get the worst of yours."
I think the Roman Catholic
I think the Roman Catholic Church is mainly interested in the valuable property it is getting with the Ordinariate. When or if the next generation of Ordinariate Priest decide not to be priests because they want to marry, their churches will be sold. (Please tell me I am wrong on this.) This will help cut the RC losses for the sex abuse settlements.
What property!? That is such
What property!? That is such a laughably ignorant, not to mention tendentious and false, statement. Most incoming groups will either be using existing Catholic churches or bringing small properties with them. Additionally any of the modest properties that will brought into the Ordinariate will belong to the Ordinariate and thus the local RC dioceses will have no legal interest in those properties and could not seek to have them sold even if they wanted to.
Can we Catholics receive the
Can we Catholics receive the sacramnts of baptism, marriage and Holy Eucharist under this arrangement if these Anglican parishes are in full communion wth the Church?
"Can we Catholics receive the
"Can we Catholics receive the sacraments of baptism, marriage and Holy Eucharist under this arrangement if these Anglican parishes are in full communion wth the Church?"
Dear Oldest Sister,
Your question points out some key differences between Catholics and Episcopalians. Episcopalians would never feel the need to ask permission to receive the sacraments at a parish whose sacraments we recognize; indeed, if we visit an AME or Presbyterian or Baptist or Methodist church or the Assemblies of God, and communion is being offered, we would feel free to partake with our fellow Christians, viewing as we do Holy Communion as a call to unity, not so much a sign of perfect unity achieved. Baptism, in our view, and here we do not differ from Catholics, is the sacrament by which, among other things, one becomes a member of the Body of Christ; so the normal locale for this would be one's own parish; but in the Episcopal Church there would be vastly less red tape if a baptism took place elsewhere. No one would get "in trouble," or be lectured about participation in non-Episcopal worship. Conditional baptism, following a non-Episcopal baptism, would be most unusual. There would be less insistence on perfection of the form; more credit given to the intention of the parties, trusting in God's love and mercy as in all things we must.
Sister, usually when a couple decides on a church wedding, the wedding takes place in the church of one or other of the parties; so the circumstance you bring up is probably a bit rare but not unheard of. Las Vegas wedding chapels come to mind. When an Episcopalian marries someone of another denomination, or of another faith for that matter, there would be no promise to raise the children of the union in the Episcopal Church, one reason, perhaps, the Episcopal Church's numbers have fallen in recent years. Episcopalians who join the Disciples of Christ, for instance, are not considered apostates, as Catholics would be.
All baptized persons are members of the Body of Christ and as such are invited to receive Holy Communion in the Episcopal Church. To do otherwise would be unthinkable.
The Episcopal Church does resemble the Roman Catholic Church is some external aspects; but inside, the experience feels entirely different. There is much greater freedom, even in matters of faith. No one says you can't be a good Episcopalian if you don't believe X, Y, and Z. One is expected not to check one's brain at the door. Episcopalians are on a journey. As long as one is seeking Truth, one is seeking God. At our best, we celebrate our diversity of thought and understanding, which is more difficult than one might imagine. It calls upon us to treat each other with respect and to love each other when that is most difficult. We do not always succeed; but when we fail, there are always prophetic voices to call us back to be our best selves and to renew the bonds of love that unite us with all other Christians in the Body of Christ.
Respectfully in our dear Lord,
Peter Meyers
May we Catholics now receive
May we Catholics now receive all the sacraments in these Anglican parishes since they are in full communion with the Church?
Just curious ... Question:
Just curious ...
Question: How many sacraments does the Roman Catholic Church have?
Answer: Seven for men; six for women.
Now we can undeniably add to
Now we can undeniably add to Rome's enabling of some Catholic priests and bishops sexual abuse of children, the word hypocrites.
Why has the Church refused to create an "ordinariate" for thousands of validly ordained Roman Catholic priests who voluntarily left the clerical state, but not the priesthood? Their departure was in legitimate protest of mandatory, life-long celibacy as a condition of ordination to the priesthood. This has happened primarily since the regresive efforts on the part of Church leaders to diminish the reforms approved during Vatican II?
AND..shame on the editors of the NCR for a year's delay and then unwillingness
to print the testimonials of married priests' wives giving tribute to the
efforts of their husbands to provide service to those Catholics who, scandalized by the Church's cover up of abusive priests, sought spiritual
help from married priests.
James Lovejoy, married priest
One Bishop had a wife and
One Bishop had a wife and three children. Seems to me they had a good Church and not sure what they expect from this new union with Rome. Seems like the Pope is really going easy on them. What if one of the female priests decides to join?
No Problem. She could join
No Problem.
She could join the Church under the Ordinariate.
Obviously, she could not be ordained, but otherwise she could enter the Catholic Church just as any other Anglican/Episcopalian could.The fact that she was a priestess of another faith would not be a barrier, since to come into communion with the Church she would have to profess all that the Church believes and teaches, and thus she would have rejected the error that christian priestesses exist long before joining the ordinariate.
The Bishop, if married, would
The Bishop, if married, would be able to enter the Catholic priesthood as a priest. He does not have to break his vow with his wife, though.
The disillusionment with the Episcopalians is the recognition of women priests, bishops and allowing homosexual marriage.
The female priest would enter as a laywomen, with no recognition of her vow.
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