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PDF versionA congress for the laity in Asia without the 'church of Asia'?
Aug. 31, 2010
Paul Hwang
Commentary
SEOUL -- Tomorrow, Sept. 1, the Korean Catholic church holds a big event, the "Congress of Catholic Laity in Asia." Some 200 clergy, religious and laity from various countries in Asia will take part in the week-long event, along with some 200 local Catholics. As a layperson in the local church, I am delighted and welcome the congress with my whole heart.
It will be a good opportunity for lay people in Asia to discuss realities in the continent and help the church of Asia discern "the sign of the times."
In fact, the Vatican is the "real" host of this event with help from the local bishops' conference and lay apostolate council of Korea. The Vatican holds various meetings throughout the world with no regard for the region and time. The Asian bishops' synod, which took place in Rome in 1996 is a good example. We have seen this kind of thing happen often. It is not a problem; rather I see it positively, because it is a good initiative to gather the "People of God" on the level of not a region or country but the whole continent. In that, the Vatican can take a leading role.
What has disturbed me, however, is the fact that neither the Korean church nor the Vatican consulted with the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences, the FABC, the representative body of the national bishops' conferences in Asia with regard to the congress. I asked Virginia Saldanha, who recently retired from the post of secretary general of FABC Office of Laity, what she knew about the congress. She told me in an e-mail that neither she nor her successor have received any news on the event from either the Vatican or the Korean church, except that Archbishop Rolando Tirona, president of FABC Office of Laity, received an invitation in 2009.
On the Vatican's Web site, Cardinal Stanislaw Rylko, president of the Pontifical Council for the Laity, writes that "the congress will be directly organized by the council" in collaboration with the local church. Even if the Vatican had a plan to organize the event directly, it should have consulted the FABC first, simply because the Asian bishops' body is the representative body of bishops in the churches of Asia. They as church leaders are not supposed to be isolated from church activities like this event taking place in Asia.
I could not help but raise the question: Has the Vatican or its Council for the Laity forgotten one of the major teachings of the Second Vatican Council, "collegiality of bishops and laity"? I cannot help but say that the Vatican has made a critical mistake by ignoring such collegiality of the bishops and the faithful.
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The Vatican's forgetfulness also implies that the FABC is neutralized or is powerless. Regardless of the Vatican's intention, that is directly against one of the most important social teachings of the Catholic church, namely, "complementarity."
Since the hierarchical church depends on the order of ranks and classes like pope, bishop, priest -- similar to ranks in the army -- such complementarity can easily be shaken or broken as the order of ranks becomes confused and ruined. In the army, for example, a regimental commander should not directly control company commanders by giving directions or orders without consultation with the battalion commander responsible for the company commanders. If it happens, the battalion commander becomes useless and neutralized. The same is true with the FABC in relation to the congress prepared and managed by Vatican.
The necessary question, then, is: "Is this a Roman laity congress or an Asian laity congress?"
I have seen the prayer written for the congress by the Vatican council. I do not find in it the creative FABC spirit, which originated in the spirit of the Second Vatican Council but has been expressed in the meetings of the Asian bishops since they first met in 1970 in Manila. That spirit has been characterized by a "three-fold dialogue": Dialogues with the poor, with diverse cultures and with the great religious traditions.
Is it too much for a lay church worker like me to dream that the congress would be genuinely Asian and not Roman, so that the churches in Asia would become truly the church of Asia which is deeply rooted in Asian soil?
[Paul Hwang is chief of the Center for Asian Theology Solidarity. The center works to build networks among Asian theologians and church activists by holding various conferences and forums under the auspices of the lay-centered Woori Theology Institute based on Seoul.]
I am very concerned with the
I am very concerned with the following language in Hwang’s article: "In the army, for example, a regimental commander should not directly control company commanders by giving directions or orders without consultation with the battalion commander responsible for the company commanders. If it happens, the battalion commander becomes useless and neutralized. The same is true with the FABC in relation to the congress prepared and managed by Vatican."
Let me be clear that our church is NOT a military organization of any kind, and military criteria cannot and should not ever be applied to its’ function(s). Our church is based on the faith given to us by our Savior, when he came to earth to bring us His salvation. If it so happens that, because of Constantine, the Catholic Church seems to have a military organizational configuration, we need to study more closely to see that, in fact, our church is built upon the aspirations of the Kingdom of God.
Boy, did you ever miss the
Boy, did you ever miss the point!
That's just what I thought as
That's just what I thought as I read the above comment...
A hearty second to the
A hearty second to the missing-the-point comment!
"Let me be clear that our
"Let me be clear that our church is NOT a military organization of any kind, and military criteria cannot and should not ever be applied to its’ function(s)."
Oh, really? Have you ever spent any time in the military?
The military demands unquestioning obedience to "lawful orders."
The Catholic Church demands unquestioning obedience to whatever it states if magisterial teaching.
The military is rigidly hierarchical.
The Catholic Church demands and enforces a rigidly hierarchical church.
In the military, rank has its priviliges (RHIP)
In the Catholic Church, ranks definitely has priviliges!
In the military, the vast majority of "grunts" have little to no say in anything.
In the Catholic Church, the vast majority of grunts/pew potatoes have little to no say in anything, even at the parish level.
"In the Catholic Church, the
"In the Catholic Church, the vast majority of grunts/pew potatoes have little to no say in anything, even at the parish level".
That's why the only tool the Catholic laity have is their power of the purse and the power of their footwork. Unless they're prepared to use both, you might as well surrender the Church's future direction to the arrogant, pontificating pervert protectors who are in charge now.
So how would you describe the
So how would you describe the church? We - the church, as distinquished from the hierarachy - is not a democracy. Now I see that the church "is not a military organization of any kind."
So what kind of organization is it? Whoever you are, Anonymous, you cannot know much about organizational systems. Of course, that is a science, so it should be discounted. Right?
However much the hierarchy twists reality, it is an organization.
Jesus called us to be humble and merciful to the poor and the downtrodden, Luke14:1-14, Sirach 3:17-18, 20, 28-29.
I will be awaiting for your reply,
Also anonymous
So "our church is NOT a
So "our church is NOT a military organization of any kind", you say. And what's more " . . . mlitary criteria cannot and should ever be applied to its' function(s).
I would be interested in your description of what kind of organization IT IS. All organizations can be described by their structure and function. If we eliminate function we are only left with structure. That It is hierarchical, cannot be denied. Every organization can be either functional or dysfunctional based on how the criteria for structure and function are evaluated.
Any way you evaluate it, the Catholic Church is dysfunctional because it is a closed system, that devalues the roles of the laity, and over-values the hierachy. Of course, you may dismiss this because it is science - always to be distrusted.
How would Jesus evaluate the Church? Jesus calls us to be humble (Sirach:3:17-18, 20, 28-29) and merciful to the poor and downtrodden (Luke 14:1, 7-14). How closely does the Church hew to Jesus' message?
Awaiting your reply.
Complimentarity,
Complimentarity, collegiality,inclusion of laity as the people of God are all foreign words to the current pope and the hierarchy. These are all Vatican II ideas which the current medieval minded "high pooh-bahs" are determined to erase. The march is backward not forward. No surprise at the way in which the Congress of Catholic Laity in Asia was initiated. It will be ROMAN. Respect for other cultures is not a characteristic of the Vatican; control and consolidation of power are its goals.
Mr Hwang, unfortunately you
Mr Hwang, unfortunately you are receiving the treatment the Catholic hierarchy uses for all "non-heirarchy". Quoting Vatican II won't help; the bishops are fighting its doctrines as hard as they can, because Vatican II professed the importance of the laity in the Catholic Church, and the hierarchy wants to mullify that in order to regain their own exculsive "superiority".
I am sorry I can't sign this, It is because I see that many bishpos use their power not to do good for Christ but for their own glory and to punish those who don't agree with their desires.
But keep on believing, the Church is yours as much as it is the hierarchy's, and Vatican II was a legitimate council.
To Paul Hwang's question "Is
To Paul Hwang's question "Is this a Roman laity congress or an Asian laity congress?" I would have to state that perhaps a "Roman laity congress" is an oxymoron as the Roman Vatican has "ignored" concepts such as "complementarity" and "collegiality of bishops and laity". Because they fear losing power, the Vatican holds on to power and control and therefore organizes these Lay congresses without consultation. The Vatican does not suffer from "forgetfullness" as Paul Hwang suggests but rather it "ignores" the laity and imposes strict obedience to the "Vatican party line" on its priests and bishops.
The Vatican ignoring "complementarity" and "collegiality of bishops and laity" has already had consequences in the rank and file of the laity whether they are lay church workers like Paul Hwang or ordinary lay members of the RC church.
So, what we have here is
So, what we have here is business as usual for the Roman Church. Everybody is supposed to be western european and if you are not; well then, you can conform.
This is arrogance, pure and simple. Marry that to a group of people who are so insular they wind up being surprised over and over again when their decisions irritate, insult or scandalize.
Universal Church? Sure, you can be a part of it, as long as you are very good at just doing what you are told.
Dear Paul, the Church is a
Dear Paul, the Church is a ROMAN catholic Church and all of Asia is a part of the Roman Catholic Church. This is the dogmatic truth as we hear it from Rome and in the new version of the Canon law. What Rome says, you do. If you do not like this the final word is with the vatican whether they excommunicate you or not. You have misunderstood the decrees of Vatican 2, passed by an overwhelming majority of the council who themselves did not understand what they were decreeing. The Vatican, in their wisdom, have now understood what Vatican2 was saying, and lots of it was not only wrong ,but heretical.So let us get on from here and support the nobles in the Vatican and, Please, lets have no more stuff about an Asian Church. Very briefly, pay up and shut up!And no women, if you please!
Here in Africa, we have a genuine ROMAN Church,
Allah be praised Des
What???
What???
Dear Des, your satire is
Dear Des, your satire is great, and I suspect that in some parts of Africa the Roman Church does reign supreme. That's a gigantic continent though. I know of some African places where a more truly (name the country in Africa)local church is alive, well and growing more acculturated. In some places women are even beginning to be appreciated as having dignity and worth in their own right.
My problem with your comment is that I read Mr. Hwang's piece as LAMENT especially after the really stupendous work done by FABC at their Synod in what was labeled a "New Pentecost". It gave great hope to Asians and still animates them as you must have understood from the article. It's because their joy was so great that this is such a let down. May they find way and means to continue their triple dialogue in spite of such attempts to stifle all of these. That's my prayer from the USA.
DEAR Joan Krebs Glenview, I
DEAR Joan Krebs Glenview, I do agree with Mr.Hwang and certainly meant to emphasise that gratuitous arrogance, even when so habitual that it is unconscious, is just awful.I cannot applaud his polite LAMENT enough.I feel that there is no place for salves here, surgery is mandatory.
I know there are places in Africa which are doing like you say, and in South Africa (where I live) There are many good priests and people but fear and compliance are the order of the day when the Vatican decrees. Of course the small communities are the seed and they need encouragement. The world will benefit from Africa in time, I am convinced.
God bless and best wishes
Des
The Vatican"nobles"? My dog
The Vatican"nobles"? My dog is more of a noble than these guys and anyway they are not suppose to be nobles for God sakes! They are suppose to be servants of the people of God.
And Vatican II and its documents were heretical? What world do you live in? It was never heretical..if any council could be called heretical it would be Vatican I. They passed the infallibility of the Pope "dogma" when most of the bishops were not even there to vote. They were escaping for their lives because Garibaldi was trashing the Vatican city-states. There was not even a quorum to have this vote take place. Another proud moment for Catholics! It is all very sad what JPII and Benedict the XVI have and are continuing to do as they continue to turn this once great church into...a bunch of anachronistic criminals and pedophiles. I feel so badly for the good and dedicated priests, the religious sisters and the laity.
I bet more and more people are going to form their own Intentional Eucharistic Communities and it is about time. Or they will just walk away and Cardinal George can have his smaller more obedient church as he tells people who are concerned about the amount of people that are just plain are not returning to the church due to these Vatican idiots! The arrogance of these men is almost beyond belief. The Bark Of Peter has run a ground!
Des on Aug. 31, 2010. You
Des on Aug. 31, 2010.
You stated:
"Dear Paul, the Church is a ROMAN catholic Church and all of Asia is a part of the Roman Catholic Church. This is the dogmatic truth as we hear it from Rome and in the new version of the Canon law. What Rome says, you do. If you do not like this the final word is with the vatican whether they excommunicate you or not. You have misunderstood the decrees of Vatican 2, passed by an overwhelming majority of the council who themselves did not understand what they were decreeing. The Vatican, in their wisdom, have now understood what Vatican2 was saying, and lots of it was not only wrong ,but heretical.So let us get on from here and support the nobles in the Vatican and, Please, lets have no more stuff about an Asian Church. Very briefly, pay up and shut up!And no women, if you please!
Here in Africa, we have a genuine ROMAN Church,
Allah be praised Des"
-----------------------------------------------
Dear Des,
The Church is first CATHOLIC. 'Roman' is just a Rite. It may be the largest rite---but it is just ONE rite. 'Roman' does not speak for all of the peoples of the world. This is not the days of the Roman Empire. Rome is just a city. I think that you were replying 'tongue in cheek.' The Church in Africa should reflect the culture of the people in its practices---because the People are the Church---the communal body of Christ.
That you stated that 'Allah be praised' also shows that God has many names---and Allah is one of them. And it is not God's 'Roman Catholic' name, either.
This has to be ironic,
This has to be ironic, otherwise it is horrifying.
I guess the author should be
I guess the author should be thankful that the conference will not be conducted in Latin. At least this time around......
Surprise! surprise!! The
Surprise! surprise!!
The event in Korea should be described as a "Congress for the Laity in Asia", not a "Congress of the Laity in Asia." And it is futile to expect the FABC Office of Laity to solve the problem because it too is a bishops-run "office for laity."
Asian laity's genuine concerns can be best articulated and tackled at a forum led by laypeople. That is why some of us placed great hopes on the laity forum organized about 10 years ago in Bangkok by Paul Hwang and like thinking lay leaders to launch a laity-run Asian lay movement. Whatever happened to it?
Hector Welgampola
I find it interesting that
I find it interesting that the posts are anonymous, except for one. Why are you hiding behind anonymous when you continue to comment on articles? What are you fearful of? Are you in line for promotion within the church too so therefore you do not want to appear to be aligned against Rome? Be brave and quit hiding behind anon. In one of the recent articles, a priest made a comment for the laity to rise up and march against Rome (paraphrase) - when are the priests going to do the same?
Thank you, Paul, for calling
Thank you, Paul, for calling attention to this matter.
Thank you, Mr. Hwang, for a
Thank you, Mr. Hwang, for a fine article.
I think the creative FABC spirit, that you speak of, which originated in the spirit of the Second Vatican Council that has been characterized, as you described, by a "three-fold dialogue": Dialogues with the poor, with diverse cultures and with the great religious traditions, seems to have disappeared from our hierarchy in most cases, yet many Catholics, like yourself, continue to live in that spirit as they respond to the Holy Spirit in their lives and mission.
May we continue in the discernment of the Spirit.
Ok- So there can be no
Ok- So there can be no meetings, congresses etc unless the bureaucracy of the FBAC is in charge. And there cant even be any prayers that do follow the "spirit" of the FBAC. Who is being a bit controlling here?
Paul, are the Korean bishops
Paul, are the Korean bishops actually upset? Maybe they aren't wringing their hands like you. If they aren't, then maybe you need to ask if you are doing banana theology like Peter Phan. It's sad when white liberal theology tries to impose its categories on the Asian experience, doing the very thing it accuses the Romanizers of doing.
Watch out--Cardinal Levada is
Watch out--Cardinal Levada is watching and he's about to pounce if there's even a hint of an Asian theology, an Asian world view---Levada's filters work overtime and they'll sniff you out. After all he's a descendant from the Lord Almighty.
Dear Paul, this is a response
Dear Paul, this is a response to the final piece of your final lament: "Is it too much for a lay worker like me to dream the Congress would be genuinely Asian and not Roman....?" Because it begins tomorrow, I truly don't know. It depends very much how many of you who were fired up by the Asian Synod will be present; whether you can find each other and dream together in a creative manner; whether you can come up with truly Asian visions and promises of solidarity action with each other.
Please know this lay woman in the USA will certainly have these wishes and desires in prayers to the Holy Spirit. We are Pentecost people and not Roman people. We still cry, "Come Holy Spirit renew the earth" (that includes the institutional church it seems to me).
Dear Des, What makes you
Dear Des,
What makes you think that the decrees of Vatican II are being misunderstood??? How do you know that Council members themselves did not understand what they were decreeing??? You are saying that Vatican II promoted heresy?? What makes you an authority?? Why do we have NOBLES in the VAtican? Jesus sure was not a NOBLE?? Vatican officials and all of us Laity are equal in God's eyes. What makes them better than we are?? Anonymous is right the march in the Vatican is Backward not forward. It is so sad!!
Reply
Des learned it all watching
Des learned it all watching EWTN.
I like very much Paul Hwang's
I like very much Paul Hwang's line of thinking. Likewise the comments posted except the first. Do Catholics realize that the last ponficate (a long one), and the present one, have an apparent single aim of neutralizing the gains of Vatican II, or, which is the same thing, of reversing the initial momentum of Vatican II. This is my experience from my corner of the Catholic world, being an ordained priest in 1968, but have since married and raised a family. Is Paul a theologian? Another good news to me. Kudos to Paul!
The treatment of the Asian
The treatment of the Asian Bishops is similar to when all the world's RC women religious leaders held their Congress in Rome and the Pope did not even send formal fraternal greetings (since he was off on a trip to Lourdes).
AND the Curial Cardinal in charge of religious congregations, though remaining in Rome, hadn't cleared his schedule, even with months of prior notice of the Congress, to be willing to give an after dinner greeting for either the opening or the closing of the Congress...!!!
God's sun rises and sets only on the Curial Church; the rest of us are condemned to darkness!!
YOU ARE THE PURE OF HEART...
YOU ARE THE PURE OF HEART...
BLESS YOU PAUL HWANG. The HOLY SPIRIT will do great things through you!
Let us PRAY FOR PAUL and all involved in Congress of Catholic Laity in ASIA.
You Paul... Are LOVE, HOPE and the MERCIFUL promise of OUR LORD. It's
too bad all those preaching last Sundays gospel LUKE 14:7-14 DO NOT LIVE IT.
Can you imagine a Banquet (Congress) where the lowest place is the place of honor? HUMILITY... where art thou? HELP US JESUS to find our way in ASIA, and in EVERY country of the world. AMEN
The signs of the times seem
The signs of the times seem to be indicating a strong desire on the part of the hierarchy to put stroppy lay people back in their place, which is receptive, obedient and responsive in regard to the hierarchy rather than a place where we can initiate, dialogue or converse with the ordained. The good news, Paul, is that it's not just Asian or African laity who are to be put back in their boxes - it's lay people in general, non ordained, whether male or female. Try initiating any kind of meeting between priests and laypersons here in the Archdiocese of Melbourne - you'd soon be put back in your box by the Archbishop. Unless the initiative comes from an ordained person, of course. We can have such meetings and conferences, but the initiative must come from the ordained 'leaders'. Some leadership. It is hard to see why the Vatican jumped over your bishops, though. Perhaps they've forgotten that, according to their own ecclesiology, bishops receive their authority from God, not the Pope!
It's a little like having a
It's a little like having a gathering of the married to lay down new requirements for the ordained.
Honestly Paul i think you
Honestly Paul i think you have got it wrong
The Church is NOT the military because
(1) here in Australia the military is far more open an accountable
(2) we award all levels (with medals etc) as compared to the Vatican
where I believe 95+% of awards (i.e. sainthoods) are awarded to
Europeans and the trend is worsening, even though most Catholics (and I therefore presume saints)live elsewhere
So Sorry Paul Hwang, don't expect too many medals going to your part of the world, or even the good manners of being consulted
How can we encourage to
How can we encourage to follow the Gospel of the Cross, when we as leaders give an image as weak and fearful? Who are we afraid of anyway? Is anything more central to the Gospel than the poor, peace and non-violence?
OFFICIAL communication
OFFICIAL communication between the Roman corporate office and the Asian franchise:
http://www.laici.org/asiacs1EN.pdf
http://www.zenit.org/article-30217?l=english
OFFICIAL response from Asian franchise to Roman corporate office:
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Messages-for-the-Pope-and-Catholic-laity-...
It is curious, however, to see that this gathering of "the Church in Asia" didn't even make it onto the FABC official calendar:
http://www.fabc.org/events.html
How does one translate: "ROMA LOCUTA EST, CAUSA FINITA EST" into Korean?
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