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Anglican leader, in Rome, optimistic
Nov. 20, 2009
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Printer-friendly versionSend to friendPDF versionVATICAN CITY -- Speaking in Rome a month after the Vatican unveiled plans to facilitate the conversion of conservative Anglicans to Catholicism, the spiritual leader of the worldwide Anglican Communion offered a moderately hopeful assessment of ecumenical relations between the two churches.
The "ecumenical glass is genuinely half-full," Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams said Thursday (Nov. 19), at the conclusion of a 30-minute lecture at the Pontifical Gregorian University.
Williams spoke during a conference on ecumenism sponsored by the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity.
In his talk, Williams stressed the "theological convergence" on major doctrinal questions accomplished by Anglican-Catholic dialogue during the last four decades. He characterized areas of continued controversy, including disagreements over the ordination of women, as "second-order issues."
The archbishop nonetheless acknowledged strong feelings surrounding the question of women priests, noting that "for many Anglicans, not ordaining women (as priests or bishops) has a possible unwelcome implication about the difference between baptized men and baptized women."
Williams made only one reference to what he acknowledged as the "elephant in the room," the Vatican's plan to establish special Catholic dioceses in which former Anglicans can retain many of their traditional forms of worship and governance, and a limited married priesthood.
The move was explicitly designed to facilitate the conversion of Anglicans upset by their churches' growing acceptance of homosexuality and women priests.
Williams downplayed the significance of the Vatican plan, which he called an "imaginative pastoral response to the needs of some" that "does not break any fresh ecclesiological ground."
A new Catholic diocese for former Anglicans, he suggested, is more likely to resemble a mere "chaplaincy" than a full-fledged "church gathered around a bishop."
Williams will meet with Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican on Saturday (Nov. 21), on the second-to-last day of a five-day visit to Rome, which has included meetings with various Vatican officials.
Apart from Thursday's lecture, the archbishop's only scheduled public appearance here will be at an interdenominational prayer service at a Rome church on Friday (Nov. 20), at which Williams will be the designated preacher.
But he has NO intention of
But he has NO intention of changing church policy (i.e. discipline, just like RC celibacy!!! on the ordination of women to please the Pope or those fence-jumping Anglicans:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6923807.ece
SEPARATE but EQUAL: "A new
SEPARATE but EQUAL:
"A new Catholic diocese for former Anglicans, he suggested, is more likely to resemble a mere "chaplaincy" than a full-fledged "church gathered around a bishop."
Now, WHERE have I heard that line before?
The door swings both ways.
The door swings both ways.
Those Anglicans unhappy with their leadership are seeking shelter in the Roman fold. Therefore, those Roman Catholics unhappy with their leadership are free to join the flock in the greener pastures of Canterbury: better music, women priests and bishops, better sermons, more fellowship, etc., etc., etc.
Ratzinger insulted and
Ratzinger insulted and devalued the validity of Anglican Orders. This was a provocative move that never should have happened. To tell an entire Communion that their deacons, priests and bishops are not real or valid ordinations is an example of the arrogance and misrepresented values of right wingers like Ratzinger and his ilk. Benedict is misrepresenting TRUTH when he maintains this position. Anglicans claim Apostolic Succession directly back to Saint Augustine, the first Archbishop of Canterbury. They have just a valid Orders as Rome or the Orthodox. All of this is just a red herring because the misogyny in the Vatican runs rampant due to the ordination of women as priests and bishops in the Anglican Communion. It is Rome that is still stuck in Trent and it is Rome that still has an immature and dysfunctional theology of human sexuality. The Anglicans are the truly REFORMED Catholics that sprang from the reformation. Christ would most definitely stand with them and see the Bishop of Rome and his princely Cardinals as the hypocrites and bigots. The Church of Rome has been in error on many issues and remain so on the issues I have just written about in this thread. It will be interesting to see how reactionary Benedict receives the Archbishop's words.
SHOW SOME RESPECT! CURB YOUR
SHOW SOME RESPECT! CURB YOUR ANGER!
Your lack of respect and anger is appalling to behold. Show respect for our poe, even if you disagree with him. From the 16th century Anglican orders have been invalid. In the 19th century, Leo IX merely reaffirmed this. The formula of ordination was changed to such an extent that it lost its validity. This was not something the pope just made up. Also it is POPE BENEDICT and not "Ratzinger." Address the pope in the proper way please rather than sneer at him as "Ratzinger" and "bigot." I find your hatred of the Church to be appalling and I think if you get this angry you need to do what I do and sit back and pray. I can get angry over faith too, but in all seriousness it does not good. God's will be done, not ours.
Anglican orders were declared
Anglican orders were declared invalid long before last month. The problem comes not so much from the issue of Apostolic succession, which some, yet not all Anglicans can claim, but from the manner or ordination and the theology of the priesthood. In other words, there came a time in the history of the Anglican Communion when the theology of the priesthood was no longer that of the Catholic priesthood but more that of a Protestant minister. Also, all of the so-called ordinations of women and "ordinations" by women are obviously invalid. How will the Pope receive the words of Mr. Williams? Probably as a last ditch attempt to curry favor with those in his broken communion who are on the fence between staying with him, starting their own community, or becoming Catholic.
Hi Chris, "Ratzinger insulted
Hi Chris,
"Ratzinger insulted and devalued the validity of Anglican Orders."
The invalidity of Anglican orders has been the official teaching of the Church for hundreds of years, Pope Benedict certianly didn't come up with anything new here.
In fact it was infallibly taught some time in the 1800's.
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