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The 'schoolboys' have no real authority
Old certainties and new realities
Jan. 24, 2012
VIEWPOINT
In the very early years of the 20th century, my dad attended primary school in a one-room country grade school on the plains of central Kansas. Conditions were still very rustic on the frontier in those days. They had just the basics. There were no phones, no electric lights and no indoor plumbing. The roads were of dirt, and the law was miles away. One teacher taught all eight grades and had to be a fairly tough and self-sufficient individual.
One day when my dad was a very young child, some of the older boys in the upper grades came to school early. They brought a ladder with them and climbed up onto the roof of the schoolhouse with a .22-caliber rifle and a flask of some kind of beverage. When the teacher arrived, the boys on the roof dared him to try to get them to come down. He did not succeed. The schoolboys, not the teacher, pretty well ran the school that day.
For a young child in the second or third grade it was a bit scary. The experience left an indelible mark on the memory of my dad. For the rest of his life, which spanned nearly the entirety of the 1900s, whenever he encountered something that wasn’t quite right, he invoked this incident to explain things: “The schoolboys are running things.” Whenever a project came out botched, like a foundation that was not quite level, or a building that was not quite square, or a business that was run with a glaring ineptitude, Dad would invoke this saying, and we knew what he meant.
My dad’s words came to mind as I began to use the new English translation of the Roman Missal on the First Sunday of Advent 2011. As I use it more and more, the thought keeps coming back: “Schoolboys are running things” in the church these days, and they are not up to the task. They have usurped authority and have messed things up for the rest of the church.
I am now 76 years old. I have served the church as a priest for the last 40 of those years. I don’t think I will live long enough for anyone to convince me that the new translation is so much better, so much more spiritual, so much more pleasing to God, and will make me a so much more holy person to say, as we are now required to say at the beginning of the Second Eucharistic Prayer: “You are indeed Holy, Oh Lord, the fount of all holiness” than to say, as we used to say: “Oh Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness.” Or how about this? What is so much better about saying, “Pray, brothers and sisters, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father,” as we are now required to say, than to say “Pray, brothers and sisters, that this our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father,” as we said until recently?
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Making changes for the sake of making changes, not for the sake of improving anything, is a way to let everyone know who is in charge in the church these days.
Pope Benedict XVI talks with Archbishop Richard W. Smith of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, right, at the Vatican Nov. 7. Also pictured are Msgr. Patrick Powers, left, and Archbishop Paul-Andre Durocher of Gatineau, Quebec. On the table is a copy of the new English translation of the Roman Missal. (CNS/L’Osservatore Romano)All the hype that preceded the inaugural use of this new translation, and all the explanations that were written to justify it and to “explain” how much better it was going to be than the one currently in use were plainly just not true. The proponents were like a used-car salesman trying to talk fast and close the deal before the customer kicked the tires one more time and decided not to buy the car after all.
How are we to apply the measure: Lex orandi, lex credendi (“the law of praying is the law of believing”)? The way of praying that this new translation offers to the people of God will soon have them believing that “the Lord sits in the heavens and pouts” (to twist Psalm 2 a little) until people grovel before him and employ the “correct” words in the “correct” order in addressing the Lord.
Another, and an even more fundamental, question comes to my mind regarding all of this. Who wrote that dour document, Liturgiam Authenticam? It, too, has all the marks of something schoolboys would have written. A person can pick up and read any of the documents of the Second Vatican Council and find that they inspire buoyancy and optimism. They sing of good news and hope for the future. Liturgiam Authenticam reads like something the KGB might have written for the citizens of the Soviet Union.
Writing to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 3:1-5), St. Paul lamented that he could only talk to them as infants in Christ and not as spiritually mature, although they should have grown up by then and should have been ready for some solid food.
The church is now 2,000 or so years down the line from its infancy and ought to be exhibiting a capacity for a little more solid food rather than pabulum. The fact is, there are many in the church who are ready for solid food. But they are not “running things” right now. And it seems like some of those who are running things actually want to keep her members in an infantile condition.
“The schoolboys are running things” now, but it won’t always be that way, because they have no real authority. It only seems that way. It’s an illusion. It’s an aberration. It is out of order. And it will not always be like this, simply because “the Lord sits in the heavens and laughs ... then in his anger he speaks to them, he terrifies them in his wrath ... Happy are all who take refuge in him” (Psalm 2:4-5, 12).
[Fr. Norbert F. Dlabal is a priest of the Salina, Kan., diocese, and pastor of Our Lady of Perpetual Help Parish in Goodland and Holy Ghost Parish in Sharon Springs.]







Interesting. As you know,
Interesting. As you know, this is mostly a return to the old English translation rather than a new one. I suspect that all of this is simply a lead-in to a more Orthodox model of Church governance (national or linguistic patriarchs) and reunification with Constantinople and New Rome. To affect any revolution, you must first make things worse for those who are not paying attention.
Language. A chalice? I wonder
Language. A chalice? I wonder how many chalices of flour Mary used to prepare bread for the Holy Family.
I work in Catholic schools
I work in Catholic schools and love teaching middle school students about God and the things of beauty within our tradition. But I must say it is so difficult to go to mass now. But I am replying to your comment because I thought the exact same thing. Jesus, a simple carpenter, who hung out with outcasts says 'chalice.' Never! Seriously though, how long do we all just suck it up??
You might want to ask your
You might want to ask your middle school students how many have seen "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade". If that film is still popular with that age group, I suspect they are very much in agreement with the scene in which Jones selects a wooden goblet out of an assortment of golden chalices and proclaims "This is the cup of a carpenter's son."
As for the bishops who went along with this new translation - I can't help but fell that they have chosen....poorly.
There are many changes in the
There are many changes in the Roman Catholic Church. Many I have found unaccetpable. After much though I am now a Catholic in the American National Catholic Church. I feel at home. Something I no longer felt in the Roman church.
The Latin word is "calix".
The Latin word is "calix". "Chalice" is a perfectly good translation.
Jesus didn't speak English either, so perhaps if we're so concerned with the ipsissima verba we ought to celebrate the liturgy in Aramaic or Greek.
I'll settle for the vulgar
I'll settle for the vulgar vernacular English required by Vatican II. Not the literal Latin to Engish montrosity that both puts me to sleep and amazes with its ineptitude during the "prayer"s offered by the priest.
The whole episode reminds me
The whole episode reminds me of the complaints made against St. Jerome's version of the Scriptures. The heirarchy of his day felt that the Vulgar Latin of the people (Vulgate) was not a fitting language for the majesty of the Scriptures. The more things change....
But, what made the cup that
But, what made the cup that Jesus was using a "chalice" or "calix" in Latin versus merely a "cup" - in other words a drinking vessel?
Is it because Jesus was the person using it?
Is it because it was being used in Jewish religious ceremony, possibly reserved specifically for such use?
Is it because it was the cup from the Last Supper?
Is it because Jesus touched it and anything He touched is different from any other item?
Stop making sense!
Stop making sense!
Um, no. Jesus was very
Um, no. Jesus was very familiar with the formal language of Hebrew and its role in the Temple. You make it sound like Jesus would have used the same slang with his homies as in the Temple sacrifices.
Quit projecting.
use of the word chalice is
use of the word chalice is distracting and inteferes with prayer but
I do like Blessed are those called to the Supper of the Lamb
When I read or hear the term
When I read or hear the term "supper of the Lamb", I picture a lamb sitting at a table with a knife and fork, a napkin tied around his neck, and him asking "what's for supper"?
Lamb is my favorite dish, so
Lamb is my favorite dish, so I too have trouble with this passage.
Of course, the lamb has his
Of course, the lamb has his chalice on the table with a round of good wine for his fellow sheep.
Check out
Check out misguidedmissal.com
We have experienced mumbled responses, and uninspiring liturgies since the beginning of Advent. Our immigrant priests are struggling with the new translation. English was difficult for them before this change and now the pronunciation and sentence structure is even harder for them. It is impossible to understand what is being said.
I too believe that the last
I too believe that the last 30 years have been about returning the Roman Catholic Church to a more "orthodox" model in order to achieve reunification with the Orthodox Church. Thus, the fresh air circulating post Vatican II has become stale as newly opened windows close one by one by one.
Dear Michael, are you
Dear Michael, are you dreaming? I see no evidence for your hope for a return to patriarchal governance.
The last thing the Orthodox
The last thing the Orthodox want is a reunion with a Rome that pushes things down everybody's throat in a blatant power play. The overuse of Roman authority was what led to the split in the first place.
The Russian and Greek
The Russian and Greek Churches, whose liturgies are beautiful and dignified, are not going to touch the drecky new English liturgies with a bargepole.
Well, they do not use the
Well, they do not use the Roman Rite, so they would have no reason to use this translation. However, the Russian Orthodox in England use a liturgy full of 'thee' and 'thou', and I would image that phrases like 'the right answer before the dread judgment seat of Christ' or would be popular with many followers of the former English translation.
Another old priest, like me,
Another old priest, like me, checks in. Thanks, Father. As I struggle with this graeless translation, I could not agree more. But it was not school boys. It was Rome acting out of its rage for authority. The school boys were the cowardly American bishops who swallowed this monstrosity.
Amen. For me, the real
Amen. For me, the real scandal is that these Roman bureaucrats in their green eyeshades are showing complete contempt for the highest earthly authority in our Church, an Ecumenical Council. By whose authority do they presume to do such things?
What gives them the right to unilaterally abrogate agreements with Protestant Churches (made in accordance with the Decree on Ecumenism), or to take over a legal corporation (ICEL) of which they were not members, or to once again try to send Jewish-Christian relations into the tank by changing the Good Friday bidding prayers? Their word simply cannot be trusted, and as pointed out in the article, they constantly lie.
The old folk story of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" applies here: Lie often enough, and no one will believe you about ANYTHING. The Bishops, of Rome and elsewhere, may very well have reached that point. How can any of us know when they are telling the truth, and when they are not? But you are especially right about the American bishops; their performance, with a couple exceptions, has been disgraceful. The German bishops pushed back on this nonsense, and got some results. The simple fact is that the Council declared that bishops of a country or language group are responsible for vernacular translations; they should have taken that responsibility and told Rome to mind its own business.
Thank you, father. I'm 80,
Thank you, father. I'm 80, still teaching college English, and needing to edit the new text on the fly, as I celebrate Mass, to make it less dense and unintelligible. Did the Vatican schoolboys give any thought at all how this would affect the people in the assembly? If I have trouble parsing the sentences with the text in front of me, what it must be like for the people?
You do realize that, if you
You do realize that, if you bother reading the DOCUMENTS of the Second Vatican Council, you find texts that are on the side of Pope Benedict, et al.?
"...highest earthly authority in our Church, an Ecumenical Council." At best this quote is incomplete; at worse it is UTTER HERESY. The "supreme authority" of the Church is at the SAME TIME an Ecumenical Council (which requires a Pope to call it and to promulgate its documents) and the Pope.
A Vatican II teaching moment for you:
"In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power." (LG 22)
The Vicar of Christ has exercised his power. All that is left for us to do is to demonstrate docility of will...
Just saying...
This is fine AS AN APPEAL TO
This is fine AS AN APPEAL TO AUTHORITY, but surely the Roman Catholic Church is not only about authority. Since the Holy Father is "the vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church," he theoretically has the right to declare any number of wildly untrue or hurtful things, but as vicar of Christ and as one who we hope always listens to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, he would not take such power as a PERSONAL power-trip ("to be served"), but instead always act in service to the People of God ("but to serve").
And this is why so many of us are finding the "reform of the reform movement" so difficult to comprehend, much less embrace. Of course he has -- and presumably by extension, the Roman authorities have -- the right to make these changes, but it is quickly turning out to be antithetic to the well-being of the People of God in what is supposed to be their "full and conscious participation" in Sacred Worship. When the presider, after much practice and study of the orations, cannot make much sense of what he is required to say in liturgical prayer, it is logical -- and sad beyond belief -- that the People of God are now deprived of the fullness and the conscious participation that our Church calls for them to practice.
There is also authority in doing what is right versus what is demanded of one. This poses quite a conundrum. I as a presider and as a faithful Catholic am having a very hard time with what is behind Liturgiam Authenticam and the changes we now have in the new Roman Missal. Further, I as a native English speaker am having a harder time trying to lead the People of God in authentic liturgical prayer. Having spent many, many dollars on these Sacred Books, I hope they don't last the decade, when a more authentic English translation comes out. I'll happily pay for a new set!
yea, and that is why there is
yea, and that is why there is an "Old Catholic" Church today! (not to mention various other Legitimate "Catholic" Churches.) It is all about Power and Control...
Rome has historically tried to usurp Political powers that it does not have, from each and every other Patriarch, Synod and National/Languages group. It is all about the "Roman Empires" ideal of centralization of all power and control to itself. The Pope is mearly, The First among Equals, that's all! An Ecumenical Council has its Own authority under the Holy Spirts direction. Infallibility is mearly a ploy for Control, and has never been used since its inception; a reaction to its loss of Political Power and the Papal States..
..."All that is left for us to do is to demonstrate docility of will..." Good Grief, better pack your bags for Rome and the 16th. century. We're Adult Americans, living in the 21st Century not in pre-modern Europe under the Holy Roman Empire. Get a Life, and grow up in your relationship with Christ! Jesus threw the Money Changers and Businessmen out of the Temple, we need to throw the Politicians and "the Schoolboys" out of the Vatican.
Vote with your Pocketbook and with your feet. The Real Catholic Church is a lot Bigger than the Roman Branch!
Nope. Communion is
Nope.
Communion is hierarchical communion. If you aren't in full communion, your relationship with Christ is, at a bare minimum, damaged.
If that's what you want to
If that's what you want to believe, it's a free country. And we'll believe what we feel is right.
Baloney. (but i've got that
Baloney.
(but i've got that west coast orange bridge for ya', reverend)
First of all, the only valid
First of all, the only valid and legitimate religion is The Roman Catholic Church (those in communion with The Vicar of Jesus Christ [currently His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI]). It is The One, True Faith. Secondly, papal infallibility has been used since it was defined at the First Vatican Council: The Venerable Pope Pius XII used it to infallibly declare The Assumption of The Blessed Virgin Mary into Heaven in 'Munificentissimus Deus'. Thirdly, 'The Real Catholic Church' is 'the Roman Branch'.
Says who?
Says who?
I have always found as a
I have always found as a teacher that if you exert all your power that is all you've done--exert power. Whatever happened to teaching and explication. Rome showed it's power this time. Most of us don't deny it's right to power. But in my books the greatest pope was and still remains John XXIII...who opened up windows and let in a bit of fresh air. Oh, how I long for that fresh air once more.
Despite the claims that the
Despite the claims that the people in the pews were prepared for this change, in actuality, the majority didn't even know it was coming until around October. That wasn't unplanned. The church didn't want to give people time to think about it. Just make the change, and by then the people would say, there's nothing we can do.
We began preparation for the
We began preparation for the new translation very early in the year,if not the end of 2010. How many attended? Maybe 50 out of a parish with 3,000 plus parishioners. It was well advertised, no surprises were sprung.
Dear Father John, why are you
Dear Father John, why are you attacking this elderly priest, in so many words, for a lack of docility and even heresy? All he did, based on decades of pastoral experience, was to express his dismay with the new translation and the way it was foisted upon pastors like himself. You post such angry attacks often -- as if Catholicism were a right-wing ideology of some sort and you its defender. Why?
1. My reply is to "mcassidy."
1. My reply is to "mcassidy." Please read more carefully; I have not responded to any elderly priests. The indentation on the website displays for you what is a reply to what.
2. "...Roman bureaucrats in their green eyeshades are showing complete contempt..." I was confronting both disrespect and theological error. The whole post is some sort of ill informed temper tantrum. And you take exception to me?
Mcassidy, I've learned not to
Mcassidy, I've learned not to expect a pastoral presence or a loving image of Christ from the new breed of younger priest now being ordained (and far too often spending their free time on the internet rather than ministering face to face). Sadly they've been trained to believe that they are separate and above non-ordained baptized disciples, not recognizing that we share a common commission. What I've experienced instead is an arrogant stance andactual contempt toward those they were ordained to serve. My prayer is that they will grow in wisdom and compassion as they step away from the computer and interact with real people.
Fr John, your quote from LG
Fr John, your quote from LG stated:-
"In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power." (LG 22)
Thanks for highlighting this. It is the very root of all the problems we are experiencing. If things were right, it should be the bishops together who lead the church (mandated by the pastoral councils and synods in their dioceses). The pope should be their spokesperson, giving voice to their decisions. The Curia should unquestionly administer the desisions of the bishops i.e. act as the church's civil service. Sadly both the spokesperson and the civil service, backed up by outdated canon law and the teaching you quoted above, have taken onto themselves a very unhealthy and dangerous amount of power. Had the church a proper mode of operation and had the administration not refused to administer the decision of the bishops conferences of the English speaking world, back in 1998, when they approved 16 years of work on a new translation of the Missal, then we would not be left with the sad mess we now have. The church needs a distribution of power and nothing will improve until this happens.
Making quotes of sections of
Making quotes of sections of church laws, along with the basically saying that "what the Pope says, goes", only emphasizes the legalistic nature that the church has developed, and tells people that the Pope is nothing more than a dictator who twists phrases from the Bible to justify his dictator status.
Agreed and the legalism sucks
Agreed and the legalism sucks the spirituality out of the church like a vacuum cleaner. And one wonders why the second largest group of Christians in the U.S. are former Catholics? Yeah...return to the '50's that'll get them back. Probably be a real pull for any thinking, reflective young adults as well.
No thanks.
Following your reasoning the
Following your reasoning the first few ecumenical councils, at least Nicaea, does not hold because it was called by Constantine, not by a pope. Vatican II was called by a legitimately elected pope. Its documents were ratified by the world's bishops and the decrees were signed by the reigning pope. So exactly what are you saying? That an Ecumenical council is invalid if you don't agree with it's pronouncements?
Did you read the whole
Did you read the whole thread? A Council does not outrank the Pope. That is the point... I objected to someone wrongly claiming that it does.
A ecumenical council is the
A ecumenical council is the highest authority in the Catholic Church. A pope exercises supreme authority and can overturn what another pope has degreed but a pope absolutely can never overturn a degree of a validly called ecumenical council. Remember an ecumenical council consists of all the bishops of the world including the foremost bishop (the pope) who sits on the chair of Peter. The pope must approve of the decisions of the council in order that these decisions be valid.
The "Vicar of Christ", Mr.
The "Vicar of Christ", Mr. John N., is your local bishop.
"Docility of will"??????
I'm no doormat, sir.
(but i do have that west coast orange bridge for ya')
"I'm no doormat." You also
"I'm no doormat."
You also aren't Catholic (anymore), correct? What horse do you have in this race?
The saints proclaim docility of will as a virtue. The evangelical counsel of obedience affirms it.
The whole "non serviam" gig is already taken. Are you comfortable imitating the original?
-Reverendus Domimnus Ioannes N. (still looking for a correct title that you are willing to use)
Tsk, tsk, Mr. John N. Of
Tsk, tsk, Mr. John N.
Of course, I'm still Catholic in faith, just no longer Roman by affiliation.
What "horse" do I have in this race, you ask?
The health of the Church of Rome, the church in which I was baptized in 1948, Mr. John N.
You keep your title, Reverend, and I'll keep the faith.
OK?
Might want to re-read Dominus
Might want to re-read Dominus Iesus my friend...
"17. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church."
One Church. Governed currently by Pope Bendict XVI, gloriously reigning.
Ah, that itsy-bitsy phrase
Ah, that itsy-bitsy phrase "subsists in" from Vatican II's "Unitatis Redintegratio".
I commend to you Francis A. Sullivan's "The Impact of Dominus Iesus on Ecumenism" at http://groups.creighton.edu/sjdialogue/documents/articles/sullivan_domin....
Based on Sullivan's analysis, the topic isn't as simple as you'd have us believe, is it, Mr. John N.? As this theologian points out, the conciliar fathers decided no longer to say that the church of Christ *is* the Catholic Church but only to assert that Christ's church *subsists in* the Catholic Church.
A future pope wrote more than forty years ago that "facts, as history teaches, carry more weight than pure doctrine" (Joseph Ratzinger, THEOLOGICAL HIGHLIGHTS OF VATICAN II, Paulist Press/Deus Books, 1966, p. 16; reprinted 2010). Dominus Iesus and Unitatis Redintegratio, being works of doctrine, make or suggest assertions that simply cannot withstand historical scrutiny. Jesus and his disciples knew only the Jewish faith and its priesthood, Peter was not the "first pope" (or even the "first bishop of Rome"), and Jesus certainly did not establish the institutional apparatus that we identify today with the Vatican and its farflung ecclesial empire. Even though Jesus expressed his desire for "mercy, not sacrifice" and condemned the religious leaders of his day, it would not take long for various Christian writers to transform worship from meal to "sacrifice" and religious leaders from presiders to "priests". And never mind the scandalous "trappings" worn by our so-called "Princes of the Church", not to mention the sychopantic behaviors of local bishops kowtowing to their fellow bishop in Rome.
One Church --- fractured!
Hi Joseph, You often mention
Hi Joseph,
You often mention this quote from Ratzinger (about history trumps doctrine etc).
The Oath Against Modernism that Ratzinger swore to at his ordination states (among other things):
"I also reject the error of those who say that the faith held by the Church can contradict history, and that Catholic dogmas, in the sense in which they are now understood, are irreconcilable with a more realistic view of the origins of the Christian religion. I also condemn and reject the opinion of those who say that a well-educated Christian assumes a dual personality-that of a believer and at the same time of a historian, as if it were permissible for a historian to hold things that contradict the faith of the believer, or to establish premises which, provided there be no direct denial of dogmas, would lead to the conclusion that dogmas are either false or doubtful. Likewise, I reject that method of judging and interpreting Sacred Scripture which, departing from the tradition of the Church, the analogy of faith, and the norms of the Apostolic See, embraces the misrepresentations of the rationalists and with no prudence or restraint adopts textual criticism as the one and supreme norm. Furthermore, I reject the opinion of those who hold that a professor lecturing or writing on a historico-theological subject should first put aside any preconceived opinion about the supernatural origin of Catholic tradition or about the divine promise of help to preserve all revealed truth forever; and that they should then interpret the writings of each of the Fathers solely by scientific principles, excluding all sacred authority, and with the same liberty of judgment that is common in the investigation of all ordinary historical documents."
Conclusion:
Ratzinger is (most likely) a Modernist heretic and is therefore (probably) not a valid pope at all. Since he apparently has turned his back on the oath he solemnly swore to, he should not be followed in his error by Catholics. I say this not to personally judge the man, but simply as an honest conclusion from the facts presented to me.
A number of conservatives and traditionalists are duped to believe that this man is a traditionalist... he is in fact a liberal Modernist (who happens to prefer fancy vestments and Eastward-facing liturgies).
Mr. Phillips, what one pope
Mr. Phillips, what one pope proclaims non-dogmatically at an earlier time can be changed or nullified altogether by another pope at a later time. Ditto with church councils.
As for what you've quoted, be careful arguing against yourself:
a. The Oath employs the words 'faith' and 'dogma'. When I quote Joseph Ratzinger, I am referring (as I'm sure the future pope was) to non-infallible doctrine, i.e., those teachings not part of the *deposit of faith*, defined as all that God has revealed through Christ for our salvation. I am not referring to dogma, the *deposit of faith*. In other words, when a particular matter is addressed by both non-infallible teaching and actual history, and when there is a conflict between the two sources, history must prevail as a matter of intellectual and doctrinal integrity. This view poses no threat to fundamental Catholic/Christian belief. It does not endanger the *deposit of faith*. Ratzinger's thoughts aside, I have in mind here, especially, disciplinary matters/requirements imposed by a pope or council.
b. Pius X's remarks about history reflect the temperament of the times. In his Divino Afflante Spiritu (1943), Pius XII endorsed the rigorous study of sacred scripture. Such an approach employs the findings and insights of various professional disciplines such as theology, biblical scholarship, ancient languages, archaeology, and history. Really, such an approach is not altogether different from that employed by professionals in the field of government or commercial intelligence: know the sources, know the target audience, and know the social, political, military, economic, and other conditions of peoples and cultures. In all cases, the intent is to get a better understanding of "the other", be it an ancient society or a current competitor whether that competitor is China or Mercedes-Benz.
According to Wikipedia, the Oath Against Modernism, promulgated in September 1910, was abolished by Paul VI in July 1967.
Would a Catholic ordinand who took the oath before July 1967 still be required to abide by it? I do not believe so.
An oath, quite simply, is calling on God to be witness to one's telling the truth. It makes God, who is Truth itself, a party in one's encounter with another person. In effect, in taking an oath, you are telling the other party that God would agree (or not disagree) with the substance of what you are saying. Jesus, of course, in telling his listeners "not to swear at all" (Mt 5:34), was saying "to be so truthful that men could believe them without need of oath to confirm what they say. He did not forbid the use of oaths under proper conditions, when necessary to satisfy others of our truthfulness" ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11176a.htm).
An oath is in service to the truth --- and to Truth itself, i.e., God. Our Creator has given human beings the capacity to learn, to inquire, to problem-solve. God would not want to limit us in our quest for truth --- and for Truth. The Church values faith and reason, religion and science. They are parallel paths to the ultimate Truth. Both involve the use of human intellect, a gift from God.
The Oath Against Modernism was a historically conditioned requirement, not much different, for instance, than the view of some early Christians that gentile converts to Christianity had to be circumcised. The Church does not require circumcision before or after baptism. We inquire. We discuss. And we conclude that in the service of truth (and Truth), a current disciplinary requirement is no longer in service to truth (and Truth). In fact, to continue adhering to a particular requirement might involve obstructing our knowledge of God's truth, indeed, our very relationship with our Creator!
My dislike of recent papal inititives notwithstanding, I believe Benedict XVI is the true bishop of Rome, the current pope. As I stated earlier, a future pope or council can change in whole or in part the non-infallible teachings (and, yes, disciplinary requirements) of a past pope or council. In discussing the Oath Against Modernism, we are looking at a disciplinary requirement imposed on ordinands whose prior duty is --- and always has been --- service to truth and to Truth. When the requirement hinders service to God, it must be abolished and its oath-takers freed to carry out their work in service to truth and to Truth. Service to God takes precedence over a disciplinary requirement. Popes and councils are tasked with imposing or removing such requirements.
As for your suggesting the current pope is a heretic, please be advised that canon 751 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law defines *heresy* as "the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith." And what kind of "truth" is being referenced in this canon? Canon 750.1 provides the answer: "A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them."
I hope this information helps.
Thanks Joseph. We may be on
Thanks Joseph.
We may be on opposite ends of "the spectrum"... but I give you props for providing actual explanations and documentation for your views, rather than the sarcastic type put-downs I get from some commenters.
There's a law that says
There's a law that says there's only one church and the Pope is the head, and whatever the Pope says to do you must do.
That works fine except for the fact that the Church hierarchy and the Pope were the authors of that law.
Wrong. Might want to consult
Wrong. Might want to consult Mt 16:18...
Jesus and his disciples knew
Jesus and his disciples knew only the Jewish faith and its priesthood. The reference to "church" in Mt 16:18 is most likely an interpolation, i.e., something added to the narrative by a storyteller or writer years after the Ascension. At the very least, the word 'church' does not have the general meaning that it has today, i.e., a formal, official, institutional body of believers (for many folks, the "Church of Rome").
And forget the idea that Peter was the "first pope" or the "first bishop of Rome". Peter would not have known about such stuff. Indeed, the first *monoepiscopal* bishops of Rome did not see themselves as invested with the kinds of institutional power that popes centuries later would have.
Apparently you are
Apparently you are omniscient, since you make claims about what Peter "knew." Or maybe you don't care about truth and just make crap up. I'm betting the latter.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/origins-of-peter-as-pope
"The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show. "
Might want to acquaint yourself with the Church Fathers.
"The Church Fathers, those
"The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background..."
This statement is not historically true. There were Christian leaders with a "theological background" well before 170 AD, the earliest date mentioned in your link's listing of Christian writers.
Here's some more historical background:
The earliest Christians did not have “episcopal sees”, i.e., “bishops” as we understand this phraseology today. They had unordained community leaders who, by virtue of such standing, presided at their sacred liturgies (”Masses”). Depending on particular community usage, these leaders were known as “presbyteroi” or “episkopoi”, not to be confused with our understanding of “priest” and “bishop” today.
In ELECTING OUR BISHOPS, Joseph O’Callaghan writes that “there was a Christian community in Rome before either Peter or Paul arrived there.” Furthermore, evidence suggests that “the church at Rome was governed by a council of elders or presbyters rather than a bishop.”
Likewise, Eamon Duffy in SAINTS & SINNERS: A HISTORY OF THE POPES writes, “Neither Peter nor Paul founded the Church at Rome, for there were Christians in the city before either of the Apostles set foot there. Nor can we assume…that the Apostles established there a succession of bishops to carry on their work in the city, for all the indications are that there was no single bishop at Rome for almost a century after the deaths of the Apostles.”
In ANTIOCH & ROME: NEW TESTAMENT CRADLES OF CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITY co-authored by John Meier, biblical scholar Raymond Brown writes, “Certainly [Peter] was not the original missionary who brought Christianity to Rome (and therefore not the founder of the church of Rome in that sense). There is no serious proof that he was the bishop (or local ecclesiastical officer) of the Roman church — a claim not made till the third century.” Brown also quotes the Roman historian Tacitus writing about the persecution of Christians by Nero in 64 AD and concludes, inter alia, “There was a large number of Christians in Rome.” Brown also notes that 1 Clement, “in connection with the deaths of Peter and Paul which had occurred in the author’s own generation (5:1-2), writes of a great multitude…of the chosen who suffered and were gathered to join the two apostles (6:1).”
Continuing (per Brown): “If there were many Christians in Rome in the mid 60s, how much before that time had faith in Christ arrived on the scene? Paul’s letter to the Romans, usually dated ca. AD 58, implies that the Christian community in Rome had already been in existence for a considerable period of time, since Paul says he has been wishing ‘for many years’ to visit (15:23). That this span of time is not pure rhetoric is suggested by Paul’s gratitude to God that ‘the faith of the Romans is being reported all over the world’ (1:18). Such flattery would be absurd if he were writing to a weak community recently founded. Thus the Roman community must have existed by the early 50s.” In fact, Brown cites some evidence suggesting that Christians were in Rome as early as the 40s!
According to Eamon Duffy, “First-century Rome had a large and thriving Jewish population, perhaps as many as 50,000 strong…By AD 49 [Jewish Christians] had become a significant presence in the Roman synagogues, and their beliefs were causing trouble” — so much so that the Emperor Claudius “expelled them from Rome in AD 49.” Duffy notes that the “Christian organization in Rome reflected that of the Jewish community out of which it had grown. The Roman synagogues…had no central organization. Each one conducted its own worship, appointed its own leaders and cared for its own members. In the same way, the ordering of the early Christian community in Rome seems to have…consisted of a constellation of independent churches, meeting in the houses of the wealthy members of the community. Each of these house churches had its own leaders, the elders or ‘presbyters.’”
“We must conclude that the New Testament provides no basis for the notion that before the apostles died, they ordained one man as bishop for each of the churches they had founded. The only person in the New Testament whose role resembles that of a bishop is James the ‘brother of the Lord,’ who was most likely designated for his position of leadership in the Jerusalem church by his relationship with Jesus and the special appearance with which he was favored by the risen Jesus. It seems extremely unlikely that he was ‘ordained’ as bishop of Jerusalem by St. Peter. Nor does the New Testament evidence support the idea that Peter, Paul or any other apostle became bishop of any one local church or ordained one man as bishop of any local church. One looks in vain to the New Testament for a basis for the idea of ‘an unbroken line of episcopal ordination from Christ through the apostles down through the centuries to the bishops of today" (Francis A. Sullivan, SJ, FROM APOSTLES TO BISHOPS: THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE EPISCOPACY IN THE EARLY CHURCH).
According to Kenan Osborne, any study of ordained ministry in the Catholic Church must first acknowledge the "ecclesiological presuppositions" (or "a priori stance") of when and how the church was established. He presents two viewpoints: (1) the church including its basic structure and ministries was established by Jesus during his lifetime, and (2) the church including its early structure and ministries was established by Jesus' followers after the resurrection and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. "If these two presuppositions," writes Osborne, "are not appreciated, then the tendency seems to be that one side begins to call the other side 'heretical'....[I]t is important to realize that such stances affect, in some degree, the manner in which subsequent historical data on the issue of ministry is evaluated" (Kenan Osborne, PRIESTHOOD: A HISTORY OF ORDAINED MINISTRY IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH).
The problem with the first viewpoint --- that Jesus established the institutional church with its structure and ministries --- is that it diminishes the significance of the Lord's resurrection! Easter, after all, is the most important day on the Christian calendar. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 651 (quoting 1 Cor 15:14) reminds us, "'If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.' The Resurrection above all constitutes the confirmation of all Christ's works and teachings..." In paragraph 652, we read in part, "Christ's Resurrection is the fulfillment of the promises both of the Old Testament and of Jesus himself during his earthly ministry." According to paragraph 653, "The truth of Jesus' divinity is confirmed by the Resurrection. He had said: 'When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he.' The Resurrection of the crucified one shows that he was truly 'I Am,' the Son of God and God himself..."
The basic dividing line between these two presuppositions, notes Osborne, is the resurrection. It is belief in the risen Jesus as Lord "that is at the very heart of the Church....Prior to the resurrection and the resurrection faith of the followers of Jesus, it appears difficult to speak about a Church, since the central focus of the Church is missing: namely, belief in the risen Jesus as Lord....To put the institution of the Church chronologically prior to the resurrection tends to relativize the importance of the resurrection of Jesus itself and the faith in the risen Lord by the disciples."
The resurrection could not exist in a vacuum: it was necessarily and deliberately made manifest in the appearance of the risen Jesus in the breaking of the bread and to the doubting Thomas. As the CCC, paragraph 860 notes in relevant part, "In the office of the apostles [the Twelve in this context] there is one aspect that cannot be transmitted: to be the chosen witnesses of the Lord's Resurrection and so the foundation stones of the Church." If there are no witnesses, there can be no credible evidence of Jesus' resurrection. An empty tomb by itself means nothing. As Paul noted, preaching and reception would be "in vain." Without this combination of resurrection and witness, there can be no ongoing rationale for an ecclesial foundation, and, without the latter, various church ministries (ordained or otherwise) would mean nothing from the Christian perspective. After all, even athiests can do good works, albeit not in Christ's name.
If one accepts the view that the institutional church was established after the resurrection (a stance that acknowledges the singular significance of this Easter event), then one cannot ignore historical development of various ministries to serve the People of God. Viewed a different way, "If 'Jesus' way of acting' anchors the whole argument about women's ordination [as just one issue among several relating to historic development of ministry], then it must be carried through to a plausible conclusion in historic terms" (per Robert Egan, "Why Not? Scripture, History & Women's Ordination", COMMONWEAL MAGAZINE, April 11, 2008). We cannot afford to ignore church history. Any apologetics based in whole or in part on flawed history risks rejection at a time when so much more information is accessible to scholar and layperson alike. Weak apologetics risks not being "received."
In addition to the above sources, you might want to peruse:
+ James Burtchaell’s FROM SYNAGOGUE TO CHURCH: PUBLIC SERVICES AND OFFICES IN THE EARLIEST CHRISTIAN COMMUNITIES, chapter 8,
+ Richard McBrien’s LIVES OF THE POPES, First Edition, pp. 17 – 36,
+ Keith Pecklers’ WORSHIP: A PRIMER IN CHRISTIAN RITUAL, chapters 1 – 3, and
Contrary to your assertion, Mr. John N., I am not "omniscient". Only "Carnac the Magnificient" is omniscient.
On the other hand, I do try to rely on what are considered respected and reliable sources.
You, sir, might want to acquaint yourself with works of genuine history.
"[F]acts, as history teaches, carry more weight than pure doctrine" (Joseph Ratzinger, THEOLOGICAL HIGHLIGHTS OF VATICAN II, Paulist Press/Deus Books, 1966, p. 16; reprinted 2010).
There's a respected place for doctrine, but it should not be seen as usurping the rightful and responsible role of history.
Jesus called us to turn the
Jesus called us to turn the other cheek -- not to bend over!
Docility of will, indeed. Absolute and complete balderdash of the lowest order.
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (Molly Ivins)
God bless Ms. Molly: Always
God bless Ms. Molly: Always told it like it is!
I miss her column and her insights.
Yes, you should turn the
Yes, you should turn the other cheek. But, keep an eye on the person who slapped you the first time. He might try to slap you again.
I, too, am now in the
I, too, am now in the category of older priest. The charachters that steer the ship are like the captain that wanted to tour the coastline last week. The boat has hit rock. It's sinking. And Roman martinets are arguing about "more holy" language?
It's like McHale's Navy goes to Rome to run a church!
Dear Msgr, I have almost been
Dear Msgr, I have almost been crying to see this travesty. THANK YOU for making me LAUGH OUT LOUD. I will think of you when I return to sadness on Sunday.
Short and to the point. I
Short and to the point. I too feel sadness when I attend Mass. I'm a convert--and beginning to wonder why... Thanks to all who agree the language change IS A POWER TRIP.
This is a bit of nitpicking,
This is a bit of nitpicking, but USCCB were not the sole schoolboys here. We have to add the Brits, Canadians, Australians and all English-speaking locales. They are all responsible for this take-over.
A lot of people in Britain
A lot of people in Britain made a lot of effort to warn of the problems that were coming with this translation before it arrived. We too can read the signs of the times. There is a feeling among priest and people alike that the bishops here have let us down. Some bishops have been silent, but some have tried hard (with limited success) to soften the changes Rome has been imposing. Others, however, when asked why they didn't stand up to Rome, answered that what Rome was doing was good, the translation had been received from them, it was not open to discussion and there was no right of protest. Make of that what you will.
Not just the American
Not just the American bishops- it's the bishops of all the English speaking world. I'm in the UK- and our bishops caved in as well. How can we be expected to turn hearts and minds to God when the language we are using is so twisted as to make it almost incomprehensible.
Amen!
Amen!
Maybe it's because Fr.
Maybe it's because Fr. Dlabal's views are consubstantial with my own, but I thank him for raising the question(and providing the answer): what does it say about a Church that formally opts for something that sounds to a humble priest in Kansas more like KGB than Vatican II, that strategically chooses to diminish (replace?) the impact of words that "sing of good news and hope for the future"? Interesting to consider spiritual authority residing in hearts on the plains of Kansas while some schoolboys far away rewrite the rulebooks just to show who is in charge. It's time to sing from the same hymnal and pray from the same missal instead of bringing back maxima culpas that are not, I offer, meant to sing of good news and hope for the future. Of course, I could be wrong.
"...something that sounds ...
"...something that sounds ... more like KGB than Vatican II..."
Thank you for the laugh! What is sad is that it is too true.
One of the things said about Jesus is that he came to free to Jews from the yoke of the Law. What we seem to have from the Catholic Church is a great deal of the yoke of Catholic Law andlittle of the joy and liberation found in faith.
Laughter helps (often from a
Laughter helps (often from a good yoke?), but I can't take credit for yours--the description was part of the good father's lament.
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