Bishops respond to Rep. Kennedy's criticism

Tobin says "we are adamantly opposed to health care legislation that...rations health care..."

Dolan says that any universal health care must include "grandma in the hospice..."

Yeah, the rightwinger appeal to fear comes through loud and clear in the comments of these ecclesial hierarchs!

Fact is that health care is already "rationed" by insurance companies, and there is nothing of which I'm aware that would endanger poor old grandma.

Shame on these two bishops for appealing to unfounded fear!

Once again, the Catholic Church has more concern for those who are unborn than for those who are alive.
It seems "right to life" isn't concerned with the living.

The value system of the bishops is a hiearchy. At the top of the list trumping all values below it is support the Republican party. One need not concern oneself with the dithering rationalizations of individual bishops, check thr parties position and you will have the Bishop's.

The bishops are justly concerned with a few things in the healthcare debate

1) Will abortion be covered?
2) Will denial of healthcare to elderly persons or others be a part of it?
3) Will the conscience rights of healthcare workers be respected?
4) Will the principle of subsidiarity be followed?

On #4, a likely scenario is that a public option initially will undercut all or most private carriers in price. Once they are out the picture then the costs of the public option will soar since there will be no or little competition. You only have to examine the costs of the Medicaid & Medicare programs which have grown by leaps & bounds!

Hey Bishop, the election is over. President Obama has reduced abortions, and he has ended Baby Bush's illegal and immoral wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

People forget, we live in a society that has an underlying Protestant, Puritantical slant that we all know is a misinterpretation of the works of Augustine of Hippo. In effect, Americans, whether Catholic or Protestant, believe that 'you don't deserve it'.

You will not see health care reform in these United States during your life time. It did not happen for Truman. It did not happen for Clinton and it will not work for Obama. When the economy picks up and people start working again, the issue willbe forgotten as it was in the past.

As usual, the bishops are clueless.

Unfortunately, the church seems to be more "anti-abortion", than pro-life. Rep. Kennedy is correct in his statement. You can't say no abortions, but leave out the millions who have no health care, which affects the "dignity of human life", the "buzz words" that the Church seems to like to use.
And yes, there IS rationing of health care from insurance companies, although not really, the insurance company will cover or not cover something. Then it is YOUR choice to have the procedure, drug, etc. and pay out of pocket for it. Nothing is being withheld, just who pays the bill is up for question.
Health reform is a big problem with no quick easy fix, but something has to happen and the bishops/church really should be behind it. After all for centuries the church provided most of the health care and education through their sisters and charitable hospitals and schools.

While Dolan claims he, the bishops and the Church are adamantly opposed to rationing healthcare, he fails to recognize ratioining, in many cases that causes or exacerbates the death of humans, has been going on for years by for-profit insurers.

If he is pro life and wants to reduce abortions, pregnant WOMEN need access to the healthcare system for prenatal care and birthing of their babies.

Perhaps he should support the "public option" for a year and see if birthrates go up and abortion rates go down.

Kennedy is correct on this one. Time to put up or shut up, bishops.

Bravo for the Bishops who dared question the politically correct line that abortion is a “none issue” in the overall healthcare debate as epitomized bt the young Kennedy congressman’s attack on the Catholic church. Several points have been clarified in this process. First, aside from the fact that the Church bent over backwards accommodating his late father Ted’s funeral, Rep Kennedy appears to have little regard for the Church unless it tows his own political line and serves what he sees as the right legislative choice. Implicit in his argument is the notion that the unborn child should not “stand in the way of greater health reform” . In other words a ”living persons “ gall bladder operation, breast implant surgery or bone fracture treatment should supersede any rights to life that the unborn may possess. While such a position may be tenable for many non Catholics, it is wholly inconsistent with Catholic theology which values all human life with but the weakest and most vulnerable put at the top of the list.
What is astonishing is that Rep Kennedy has publicly revealed not only his distain for his own Church but has unwittingly exposed a massive ignorance and cynicism of his own faith. It is precisely this arrogance along with the silence of the Catholic hierarchy that permitted Ted Kennedy and a number of other prominent Catholic politicians to quietly and artfully craft pro-abortion legislation for years while at the same time be among the first in line for Communion on Sunday. Until now this scene played out well for many Catholic politicians who at election time “ Stand firmly with the Catholic Church” until the votes are counted. The primary difference this time is that at least two Bishops Dolan and Tobin have actually had the termidity to stop the silent acquiescence and publicly rebuke the young Congressman. This could be a very troubling issue for the pro abortion but “Catholic” politicians as a whole, particularly if such a response ever happens again, or if other Bishops dare to become more vocal like say the Bishops of Boston, San Francisco or Chicago. Pro-Abortion advocates must sincerely hope that this does not become a trend that could end what has been a cozy relationship between a indifferent Catholic voting bloc a passive if not cooperative church hierarchy and key allies in luke- warm Catholic politicians.

How about some intelligent debate, instead of irrelevancies and ad hominems? Are you liberals afraid?

The bishop objects to government funded abortions, as called for, "unequivocally", by Rep Kennedy's party's national platform.

If you are a Democrat, just tell us why we should borrow more money from China to pay for abortion, as you propose.

So Jay, are you saying that a child in the first nine months of its life, resting in its mother's womb is not alive? Is it dead?

So long as abortion is a legal medical procedure, and that is "settled law" as the recent Supreme Court nominee put it, efforts to interfere with a woman't right to obtain that procedure will fall flat. To sacrifice all of the other social justice advantages of health care reform (including in some cases reduced likelihood of abortions) on a Quixotic quest to change that reality is unconscionable. It threatents to destroy all of those benefits for no gain whatsoever.

Similarly, any "conscience exemptions" are not properly part of "reform." Health care reform is about getting paid health care to all of those who need it. Not about figuring out whether a pharmacist working for a chain pharmacy has a right to not dispense RU-486 and keep his job. That is another matter entirely.

These arguments, as suggested above, seem suspiciously like alarmist posturing by Republican bishops who wish to derail the move to reform of the health care system entirely.

Thanks for your interesting reply but, very respectfully, money doesnt grow on trees.

You said the Democrats wont pay for your free abortion by borrowing the money from China. The government is out of money, as President Obabam said in March. He has even needed to borrow Chineese money to pay for the men he's been pouring into Afghanistan. Where does it come from to pay for your free abortions?

Rep. Kennedy's frustration with the bishops position is well founded. The Church's position on the need for health care is well known, but -- as always -- actions speak louder than words.

The difference between the original abortion restrictions in HR 3962 and the abortion restrictions in the Stupak amendment is far narrower than the umbrage of Dolan and Tobin. The original restrictions were designed to maintain the status quo with regard to access to abortion services. This makes political sense because the health care bill is about health care, not abortion. The argument that the original bill language maintained the existing political balance better than the Stupak amendment is a fairly strong one.

The Stupak amendment effectively extends the restrictions on abortion, making abortion services less available than currently (e.g. in the seventeen states that permit abortion coverage under Medicaid and, given the political realities, might permit the same coverage for their citizens if allowed that opportunity). It is fair to say that the bishops were simply not interested in maintaining the abortion status quo. They saw an opportunity to advance their position, and they seized the opportunity. And they were successful, because the votes that went with the Stupak amendment were necessary to obtain passage of HR 3962. It was a very close vote, 220-215.

But at what price? By placing abortion at the front of the line, health care is weakened. If other interests (e.g. immigration, tort reform) are emboldened to do the same thing, the outcome will not depend upon the merits of health care but on the political balance among issues other than health care.

This is what concerns Rep. Kennedy, whose family has long fought for health care reform. It is just at this time that the Church could be effective for health care, where the political ACTION, not the pious WORDS, of the bishops could make a difference.

It is the bishops' choice to seize this target of opportunity. As often happens in politics, timing is everything. By focusing their political ACTION on abortion, they have left the cause of health care to their WORDS. By the time they are prepared for ACTION on health care, the battle may already be won or lost.

No wonder Rep. Kennedy is frustrated by the failure of his Church to take effective political ACTION on health care. He has no reason to apologize. Bishop Dolan's request for an apology is either disingenuous, or reflects a certain naivete about how politics works.

Just saw where Bishop Tobin of Providence is withholding Communion from Rep. Kennedy. He is quoted as saying that Kennedy is not a good Catholic. What I'd like to know is if Bishop Tobin in any way colluded with pedophiles during his episcopacy? How many of us are perfect human beings? Isn't Communion there to help us all with the grace it gives to us?

I find it interesting there is so much discussion about the pros and cons regarding abortion. No one likes abortion!
We should be discussing the interference by the bishops in the decisions of this government. Pres. Kennedy tried always to distant our government from the Vatican. I for one, as a Catholic, elderly woman find the bishops of the U.S. overstepping their bounds very offensive.
They could speak out against the health care bill from the pulpit, but that might interfere with their tax-free status. If they are truly against this bill, they should perhaps speak out where they are supposed to be making their stand and not being afraid of losing a bit of money.
I question their priorities. They would rather Americans went without health care, if they can appear righteous. How selfish!