DeBernardo: 'persistent, gracious, thoughtful, questioning'

Cardinal George is acting like a coward. It's a shameful reason. He is afraid of his right wing reactionary elements and what trouble they will cause him so he sells short an entire group of Catholics that have been so marginalized and devalued that a humble ministry (New Ways) is disenfranchised and not give the chance to have a dialogue. This dialogue would be one that Jesus would have with them and the end result would be His inclusive love and an invitation to come follow him. Jesus would never devalue them and Jesus would always show backbone, something Cardinal George does not have. The violence that the right wing Catholic Fundamentalists have inflicted on homosexual persons and women must be addressed and this was an opportunity for George to do just that. Instead, he acts as a shill for Benedict and his right wing cadre of narrow minded and ignorant syncopates. Nauseating and a sinful example of exactly what Cardinal George should NOT have done. Hypocritical behavior such as Cardinal George's need to be exposed for what it is.

"Taliban Cardinal" George is no Heidi Klum. And the USCCB is not a TV reality show or game of Survivor, The Amazing Race or even Project Runway; although with the return of the cappa magna and the fiddleback chasuble -with matching maniple- it's beginning to be run as such:

"Perhaps he was doing what cardinals now are expected to do – draw these severe lines between us and them, return to the church’s old habit of defining so that we can exclude, making certain that everyone knows who’s in and who’s out."

Soon-to-be Blessed Henry Newman, ora pro nobis!

Wow--imagine that--a Cardinal Archbishop clearly articulating the TRUTH of the Catholic faith that homosexual behaviors and lifestyles are not compatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

No wonder you seem perturbed--the truth may hurt a little, but it *will* set you free...

When an authoritarian leadership is in crisis and feels itself under attack, it moves by attacking back. The bishops of course should be investigating themselves and the ecclesiastical structure that failed to provide safe harbor for our children but instead tried to cover up the dastardly deeds of many clergy in the rapes of our children. Instead of mass resignations of this unethical behavior to evade and hide from these horrible sins, they feared scandal more than their call to care for our children. They never attempted to give spiritual or psychological care and counsel to these children (humans under the age of 18). They have used many defenses calling some of these kids older and therefore the sins not so great etc etc.. Yet it is this same group of deadened men who call anything that disagrees with there thoughts relativism. The Bishops as embodied by Cardinal George have yet to face all of the liaisons of priests with our married and not marred women. They have failed to understand the consequences and responsibilities of fathering children out of wedlock. It seems that they are really saying that everything is relative. In fact it is relatively a different sin to rape a child under 12 or to have an affair with a woman or man over 18. However when it comes to the laity, the vast numbers of the People of God, it seems that the Bishops’ teachings are clear. "Any sexual sin is a serious mortal sin," but only for the laity!

It is as if they thought, “It is impossible to defend authoritarian thought logically so lets not defend it, lets just attack others for their sexual behaviors (sins). Let's get the gays. We'll blame the gay priests first then gays in general. We'll blame the women religious. Oh hell, why stop with the women, we'll blame all the religious orders. What we can not however ever look at are the reasons for all this misbehavior and what reason for this coverup?

When ever there is chronic deprivation, over the long run, people are in fact harmed. The forced privation of men to be celibate is of course psychologically the first place to reorganize prevention of a future horrible repeat of this misbehavior. The Bishops can not do that because it means too much loss of Church real-estate- Priests with wives or husbands would mean that the Church gets a lot less resources. Spouses like to own their own houses have their own possessions. Children can not to grow up in total deprivation. How would that look? They need day care, clothes, recreation, education and much, much more. This would mean less for the leadership of the organization (RCC). So lets find something else rather than the privation of celibacy to blame this mess on. We just can not face the loss of so much! Yep we can blame it on the gays, we can blame it on modernity, we can blame it on sexual sins of the laity. Lets not investigate a fellow bishop. No they are sacrosanct.

Until the Church is willing to look at itself, especially the structure of its leadership, we will continue to be in crisis. The crisis has gotten to the implosion stage. We are being ruined from a greedy group from within. It is a deadening blow to the life of the RCC.

May we gain grace through honest and peaceful reform.

R. Dennis Porch, MD

Cardinal George could not and can not meet with DeBernardo...to do so might accidently bring about a dialogue. And unfortunately, dialogue is not an ecclesiastical value at this point and time in Roman Catholicism's history. Declaration and demarcation are. Our faith reminds us, however, that the Spirit is alive, well and working within but also OUTSIDE the hierarchical structure.

Jesus ate with prostitutes, tax collectors and others considered as unsavory and sinful, giving great scandal to some of his followers & definitely to the Pharisees...should our Church do anything less?

The Cardinal is making a statement that is part of Catholic belief.It should say love the sinner,not the sin. We all fall short and are sinners. I say embrace the sinner. There are so many examples in our church of abuse,don't feed this fire.
We do not know the mind of God. We must look to our leaders as bases for us.
I will not judge them. It is not my place.That means both sides.

Cardinal George is doing his job. Since the Church teaches the truth that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, and therefore cannot be engaged in without sin, he would be lying if he pretended it was okay to perform homosexual acts. He would be irresponsible to say nothing and in so doing imply that it was okay to engage in homosexual acts. Persons with homosexual orientation are to be treated with justice and compassion, but it does them no good to pretend that an active practice of homosexual acts is morally neutral or good. I realize that a lot of people think they have the right to act out sexually in whatever way they wish, but that's simply not true in the moral sphere.

Cardinal George has just told another generation of borderline homophobes that it's okay to exclude "them." And while we're at it, to use derisive terms for homosexuals. And if it's okay to use the "f" word and the "d" word against them, and to use the phrase "that's so gay" as a negative comment... ...well then it's probably also a good thing to follow someone coming out of a "gay bar" and to beat a good lesson into him or her before he or she goes after their little brothers and sisters.

Gay-bashing is gay-bashing. The only difference is that some thugs do it with baseball bats and others do it with croziers.

Sometimes I think Francis George would not recognize a Christian if one bit him. It seems he certainly doesn’t see one in the mirror.

I wonder why it is that readers who support George and his ilk comment anonymously. I have always made it a practice to ignore unthinking, cowardly, anonymous comments.

For those parents of gay and lesbian Catholics looking or support and welcome, I recommend the web site of Fortunate Families, http://fortunatefamilies.com//. They’ll find a home among true Catholics there.

How much more pain and humiliation will the hierarchy heap on our gay and lesbian children. When our son came out to us at the age of 16, the first thing after he said, "I'm gay." was to plead, "Please don't make me go to church anymore". With Cardinal George's pronouncement, you can guess that our son won't be back to church any time soon.

Before they open their mouths, does the hierarchy ever think, "What would Jesus say/do?" I think not!!

I suggest the good cardinal consider insights offered by the following Christians as a good place to start his much needed updating on homosexuality:

a. "What the Bible Says - and Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality" by Rev. Mel
White at http://www.soulforce.org . Click "What the Bible Says" at the
"Resources" link.

b. "Homosexuality and the Church: Scripture and Experience" by theologian
Luke Timothy Johnson in COMMONWEAL (June 15, 2007) at
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org .

c. "How Faith Speaks to Fairness" by Rev. Albert Pennybacker at
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20102020316 .

Just as Jesus challenged the prevailing teachings and practices of the religious authorities of his day, so Chicago's archbishop --- acting in the person of Christ --- needs to challenge the folks in Rome to reevaluate traditional church teaching and practice in this area.

God knows, it's long overdue!

Cardinal George does it again. Not thinking of the consequences, he condemns a whole group of people, most of whom are probably more saintly than he is. It is time for him and many others like him to resign from the church hierarchy and let those who follow the Gospel take over. Maybe then the coming of the Kingdom can be revealed and people we at last hear the Word of God. Right now it is not a reality show, it comedy central.....

DeBernardo: 'persistent, gracious, thoughtful, questioning'

So what? Morals not manners maketh man. He preaches that homosexual behavior is acceptable. He is wrong.

I dont need to meet with a Cardinal, or even Tom Roberts, to know why it is wrong. I can look it up in a book. Why wont he?

Who are the faithful in our church today? Can anyone ever question those at the top? Obey or get out...that's the cry...obey a bunch of crotchy, old men who have nothing to offer but continued diversion from real pastoral issues in the Church...like hiding and protecting pedophiles...OBEDIENCE???

Saying that a lay group “cannot speak on behalf of the Catholic faithful in the United States” is not actually saying very much.

That would apply to any lay group in the Church.

God Bless

Does the Cardinal imply then, that all teaching by our gay bishops, priests and religious is also "not authentically Catholic"? Something strikes me as hypocritical.

Tom Roberts is correct when he says that Catholic parents of lesbian daughters and gay sons are not going away. Certainly, Fortunate Families, a national network of Catholic parents who reach out in support and encouragement to each other as they pray and work for welcome and justice in the church for their LGBT daughters and sons, is not going away. In fact, the hierarchy might be interested to know that many such Catholic parents have stayed in the church because of New Ways Ministry and it’s Christ-like, compassionate response to them and their LGBT children.

As the name implies, we Catholic parents know—as the USCCB’s pastoral message of 1997, Always Our Children, clearly states—“This child…[is] God’s gift…and may now be the cause of another gift: your family becoming more honest, respectful, and supportive.” It is sad that the hierarchy of the church is blind to that same gift.

We parents fully intend to continue to tell our stories, stories about the wholeness and holiness of all our children…not just the heterosexual ones. And we will continue to pray that some day hierarchical hearts will be opened to the grace and goodness revealed in our LGBT daughters and sons.

Casey Lopata, President
Fortunate Families.

Homosexuality has been a divisive issue among mankind for far to long. There is too much ignorance on the subject. Anyone who wishes to delve into the subject will quickly find that the real scientific researchers in the field agree that homosexuality is not a choice, but is related to one's genetic make-up. I suspect that's why you will find little reference to it on the part of Jesus and his teachings. Those who think they can change the homosexually oriented person into a heterosexual individual are wrong. Like so many things in life the orientation is not 100% one way or the other. For those only slightly affected they can possibly learn to mask their true feelings. But for most that is not possible.

Since genetic make-up is a gift from our Creator, then all children are God's. And those who impose their man derived belief structure on God's children must tred very carefully, because someday they will have to answer to our God for their actions and lack of love and understanding. Our church leaders need to concern themselves more with love and caring for each other than sexual matters between two caring individuals, which are not that important except to the evil one attempting to cause division among God's people.

Why would we as a church wish to alienate people who want to be a part of us?
Is this what Jesus would do? There is enough suffering and sadness in the world withourt our adding to it by exclusion of those who want to be a part of our church.

I am 54 and gay. I remain faithful to my Catholic tradition even though I have had abundant reason to leave. I stay because of what I learned from the Church herself. That God is love. That all of us are made in the image and likeness of God. That God doesn't set us up for failure. That we are to be compassionate and leave the judging to God. I enjoyed 22 years of Catholic education, including 4 in the seminary. I think my conscience is well-formed. Incidentally, it was in the seminary that I first encountered other gay men. 12 out of 13 men in my seminary class were gay. A large percentage of the Catholic priesthood is gay. The hypocrisy and lack of integrity of the Church is at times almost unbearable. Thank God I have been surrounded by loving Catholics, including my own very Irish family which includes two nuns and a priest. I left the priesthood because I was raised to be honest and I could not be honest in this institution. This is not particularly about sex. It is about hiding who I am - hiding the fact that I am sexually attracted to the same sex. I did not seek or choose this inclination. Denying it was only a formula for depression. The single greatest source of sadness for me has been the unceasing diatribe of judgment coming from the Bishops who themselves in the whole, have shown no compassion and who actively covered up sexual dysfunction among their own men for decades. I have been a leader of my local Dignity chapter. We have frequently, over the years requested an opportunity to meet with our local Bishop. Our letters have never been acknowledged. Phone calls not returned. It is the height of rudeness, as well as an abandonment of the pastoral commission each Bishop has. I know for certain that I would not get such a response from Jesus. After all he was the one who spoke with the woman at the well - a social outcast in her time. He is the one who stopped the stoning of the woman caught in adultery by saying "Let the one with no sin cast the first stone." The Bishops ought to meet this Jesus the Church taught me about. But they are blinded by their prejudice and righteousness. And the worst part? Many themselves are homosexual! If you are a LGBT Catholic or the family of one, and are looking for a home that embraces our rich Catholic heritage and where your God-given dignity is respected, consider Dignity. www.dignityusa.org.

The young of the human species need protection much longer than that of other species Society says a minimum of 18 years before it is willing to recognise them as adult. Research into troubled damaged adults reveals a high proprtion of people who have had a difficult or non existent relatioship with one or both parents. Children who grow up without a father figure inevitably look for one to fill the gap and it is vice vera if they lack a mother figure.
What has this to do with anything It shows that the model of a faith filled faithful marriage between a man and a woman is essental to the development of the human race.God designed the male and female body to complement one another and the result of the sexual act would be to create a new life and given that this new life needs a long period of protection from a mother and father it is common sense to see the wisdom in the sacrament of marriage.
Same sex attraction if supported and encouraged instead of being recognised as going against God's plan for humanity will undermine the human race and bring great harm to society.

Those who live in accordance with the teachings of Christ.The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and the ugly wounds of abuse and lack of charity are caused by those members of the body of Christ who fail to live according to the teachings of Christ.
Same sex attracted people who live the lifestyle and call themselves Catholic and accuse the Church of preaching hatred are another wound.What will heal these wounds? The prayer and pennance of every soul who strives to be a saint and trusts in the grace and mercy of our loving God. Amongst these saints are same sex attracted catholics who quietly live chaste lives relying on God's grace to help them persevere.

What is Faith?

It is the belief in the loving presence of Jesus in our lives. Our informed consequence is to be our guide in life based on reason and hope for an all inclusive community.

I am a psychiatric social worker with 30 years experience and training in the field of psychiatry and psychology . It is not valid to quote scripture based on the values and beliefs of the 1st century AD; there was not any concept/ understanding of human sexuality, nor were there terms for what today we call heterosexual and homosexual sexuality. The Churches view that homosexual orientation is intrinsically disorder is disordered in and of itself.

Research in human development and human sexuality has shown that sexual orientation is usually set somewhere between 9 and 18 months of age. There is growing evidence that it may be genetically predetermined and is not the result of any influences of having a strong mother and a weak father, as was the theory years ago. Homosexuality appears in all animals as a natural variation of sexual behavior in nature. As some people have viewed it is the way God Made Me! No one chooses to be a LEAPER!
Many who use the Bible to condemn any group of people for their not being like us, is guilty of not accepting people for who they are as Jesus did in his ministry. Nor, is it appropriate to use the Bible to deny anyone their civil rights and equal protections under the law, as guaranteed by our Constitution.

Cardinal George is playing politics and posturing; he is not being pastoral in any way and could care less if any Gays and Lesbians have a home in the Catholic Church. He models and espouses hatred and violence towards Gays and Lesbians in the same way the Pope calls on all the world to stop Gays and Lesbians from ending the Human race.

This belief system is called homophobia in psychiatric terms. It is the conscious and unconscious fear of anyone who is perceived as having homosexual orientation or traits. It is usually caused by underlying internal issues stemming from one's own unresolved sexual identity. Thus, these fears cause these individuals to lash out at what they perceive as being homosexual in an attempt to prove their own heterosexuality. This preoccupation on the part of the Church stems from so many of its Bishops and priests having this internal conflict over sexual identity and sexual acts. This includes the Pope who could be labeled as having the psychiatric disorder of homophobia, the conscious and unconscious fear of homosexuals within the Church and in society causing the end of the human race.

It is time for all of us to stop blaming the victim and openly understand that weather heterosexual or homosexual, we were all created the way we are by a loving God; who calls us all into loving relationships and community.

The Church is quite clear in its teaching of love and compassion to all sinners. It is sin the Church warns us against because it is harmful to our souls. Same sex attracted people are not singled out for special consideration. They are asked to be chaste along with every other catholic who has not entered into the married state. The Church knows we will sometimes stumble and fall and when we do we have the gift of confession to give us the courage and stregth to pick ourselves up and start anew.