Voice of the Faithful critically low on funds

What about the poor?

As soon as I received the e-mail on Monday, I made as large a contribution as I was able, but I was a bit puzzled that this urgent financial emergency was not mentioned in VOF updates that were sent out as recently as last week. The shift to "crisis mode" was a bit puzzling.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
There are ways to empower the laity, and encourage servant leadership rather than dictatorial micromanaging among the clergy, without trying to overthrow the magisterium and organizational structure of the Church. Indeed this is what the clergy want too. Even amoung priests I know (including several conservative ones), they dont want to be a one man show but want to help set up their communities up so that they can sustain themselves in their common encounter God through His Church no matter who the pastor is.

VOTF is and has always been charging at windmills, irrelevant confused and misguided, and a front for ideologies that are harmful to the Church. so I repeat: good riddance to bad rubbish.

This is truly a crisis situation at a time when so very many members cannot afford to donate to the "rescue" and the results of the impact can spell an end for the critical need we have for this witness in our church!

It would be a loss to everyone concerned with the protection of children if the group known at the Voice of the Faithful were to cease to exist.

There is no question the the establishment of VOTF has aided in holding the institutional RCC accountable, whether in its responsibility to put the welfare and protection of children before the protection of an institution or of priests with a history of sexually abusing minors, young men, women or vulnerable adults.

Fortunately in Delaware we have removed all statutes of limitation going forward in regard to the sexual abuse of children - by anyone. We also included in that law a two year window for bringing forward in civil court previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse. I was honored to have testified in support of Delaware's 2007 Child Victim's Law. In Delaware there is also a Civil Registry for those found civilly liable for the sexual abuse of children.

The larger problems surrounding the church's sexual abuse problems specifically and its understanding of sexuality in general have not abated. They continue here in the United States as they continue around the world and are now most evident in Ireland.

There are bishops across the United States along with their states' Catholic Conferences who adamently refuse to support the changes that are so necessary in laws covering childhood sexual abuse specifically the total removal of statutes of limitation, many times even predicting gloom and doom if such laws are passed.

To me at least, such actions appear in direct contradiction to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child to which the Holy See was a signatory.

How then can they say they are following the injuction of the Lord Jesus when he directs us to protect the least of his little ones?

Perhaps other words of Jesus are more insightful:

"Anyone who would lead one of these little ones into sin, it would be better if he had a millstone tied around his neck and he were tossed into the sea."

Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com

I think of better ways to spend my money.

1. Donate to the Sisters of the Poor
2. Donate to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul
3. Donate to the Sisters of Life
4. Donate to FOCUSONLINE.org
5. Donate to Peter's Pence

Maybe this is the Spirit's way of letting the VOTF crowd know that their time has expired.

By the way...the Church does not belong to ANYONE, but God alone.

Boo hoo....

VOTF, Celibacy is the Issue, Justice for Priests & Deacons, are all causes that need our support. Unfortunately, we're all experiencing more and more demands on a smaller income. I hope each of us can do a bit for this worthy group.

In a church largely characterized by lay apathy and indifference, VOTF has motivated and guided tens of thousands of Catholics to make a real difference. Every Catholic who wants a safer, healthier church should support this dedicated group, not just with lip service but with donations. I'm sending a check in today.

Barbara Dorris
Outreach Coordinator, SNAP
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests
6245 Westminster
St. Louis MO 63130
314 862 7688
SNAPnetwork.org

In a church largely characterized by lay apathy and indifference, VOTF has motivated and guided tens of thousands of Catholics to make a real difference. Every Catholic who wants a safer, healthier church should support this dedicated group, not just with lip service but with donations. I'm sending a check in today.

Barbara Dorris
Outreach Coordinator, SNAP
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests
6245 Westminster
St. Louis MO 63130
314 862 7688
SNAPnetwork.org

A house divided is bound to fail. VOTF has always been a house divided. If they had stuck to just helping abused children, they would have raised millions, just like Boys Town banked 15 million more than they could spend. And VOTF could have used the millions to help the iceberg below the tip, all the victims still suffering in silence. It is nice to know that VOTF will survive because the Catholic Church needs someone to constantly attack the crime and corruptness in the Church. Child abuse just being the most egregious example of the vile, criminal things the Catholic Church is capable of. The Amish have a book of martyrs. I made the mistake of asking my Amish friend who killed these martyrs? The Catholic Church. My Amish friend quickly added "we don't hold it against you." But they should. Most Catholics in the USA seem to be blithely ignorant about the dark side of the Catholic Church. I know it and as a daily Mass Catholic I am deeply ashamed of the abuse scandal and the long criminal history of the Catholic Church. This church needs constant vigilance and VOTF provides that in strong doses..

Why not donate to your parish or diocese or Catholic Charities instead of taking your hard earned money and giving to this fringe group to pay the salary of a few people doing useless work?

$60,000 for what? A blogsite would not cost a penny. If I send any money to expose and prevent sexual abuse, I expect VOP to provide resumes of priests, monks, nuns and lay staff. We parishioners can arrive at our own conclusions even if offenders have been able to get away from prosecutions. They should be advocates for transparency and accountability by the Catholic establishment.

For the last seven years, VOP claimed to be speaking for us while sitting on their butts and raking in contributions. We want to know about the background of our pastors. What is the problem???

Awwwwww... ta-ta.

Well, here's some good news finally! I am so happy to hear that Voice of the "Faithful" is having financial troubles. Couldn't happen to a better group! This news just made my day.

VOTF began wonderfully. I was the first to sign up in my area, 7 years ago. While working on Goal 1, supporting survivors, I was able to put a face behind this tragedy, to reach out and to aid in the healing of some. I did my best and I was proud to be a member of VOTF back then.

However, not long after the organization began, I noticed a "left" leaning influence coming into the organization. I'd complain to national and to local leaders. I was ignored. They gave lip service, as much as did most bishops. So I am happy VOTF is going under. Call to Action and Future Church already exists for *radical* reformers.

It VOTF were led by the Holy Spirit, it would gain strength, not fizzle. Its leaders would have had *courage* and *wisdom* to chart out a course, based on the "Deposit of Faith", left us by Jesus and His apostles. They did not.

As a lifelong, practicing Catholic, literate in Scripture, I just finished reading a book that "filled in the blanks" for me, about the Deposit of Faith. I highly recommend to all Catholics, like me, that had high hopes for VOTF, that they read a book written by Edgar Davie, who is as orthodox Roman Catholic as they come, as "faithful" as they come; his book is written specifically for us, "the faithful", so we can have a "voice". Outside of the Holy Bible, "Illicit Celibacy and the Deposit of Faith" is the best book I've ever read about my faith. For details, go to www.illicitcelibacy.com

This book was an eye-opener for me, an orthodox, Pro-Life (no death penalty either), no same-sex marriage, supporter of LEGAL immigration, believer in the bible as the inspired Word of God (from the Table of Contents to the Maps) and lover of the Roman Catholic Mass.

If you are left of center, and want a church more like what Call to Action and Future Church envisions, then this book is *not* for you.

Unless issues concern individuals personally, they have short memories and shorter staying power. Unlike SNAP, VOTF has not received advocacy lawyer support, where trial lawyers have a stake in seeing this movement continue. Had VOTF sought an accommodation with church leaders, and modified its agenda, it may have succeeded in providing another positive point of reference. As it is, it will eventually become just another of those para-ecclesiastical movements that came and went during the Roman Catholic Church’s 2000 year history.

why is this crisis a surprise to the people? has VOF not been upfront financially with its' members to avoid this crisis? talk about transparency...

VOTF needs to survive so that un-checked church governance is watched/reported . Who will stand up when another 1000 parishes are closed next year? Who will stand up when embezzlements increase? who will monitor child abuse programs? Are you waiting for Hand picked parish pastoral/finance council toadies who have never once been credited with exposing any abuse?... financial abuse . sexual abuse.. liturgical abuse.
Without VOTF or something just like it ...it's back to feudal times... so get ready to be quick to take your hat off and be quick to doff and bow..ring kissing will be made mandatory ... like celibacy..

Goodbye, Voice of the "Faithful"!!! The Spirit has extinguished you!

WHERE'S MY IDENTITY? VOTF is an organization in search of its identity. VOTF's chairman, Bill Casey, complains that "the issue of defining the organization and its mission has been a concern from the beginning." The VOTF people don't know who they are and what they're doing, and they want our money to help them find their identity. The members of VOTF are people in search of a cause, because they're full of hatred and raging resentment against Holy MOTHER Church. Most of them, I dare say, are nursing hidden wounds and have problems of their own.

I love irony. This organization, which started looking for transparency and working against the "hierarchical Church" now needs wants money to support their own "central organization" and has not been transparent about where the money in the past went and the new money will go.

Hello everyone.

I would have no problem if VOTF would have just stayed in their exposing corruption and helping victims of sexual abuse.

Unfortunately they have decided to "keep the faith and change the Church."

That is unacceptable. We don't need to use sexual crimes to be a tool to "reform" the Church into a new religion. All VOTF has become is just another "modernize the Church!" movement. Nothing more. For those of you on this website and in VOTF who are not like that and just want to help survivors and stop the horrors of sexual abuse I give you kudos. But for the rest...when you are using tens of thousands of dollars to promote some radical dissenting agenda you are not doing the Lord's work.

I've got some $3 bills and wooden nickels to send them.

How soon before Call-to-Action follows suit?

The book Illicit Celibacy sounds very good and important. Thanks for letting us know about it.

I knew celibacy rule was a new rule started up in 1139 C.E. only by looking into this.

I found out priests' wives were sold into slavery and new rule by "Innocent" III that nuns as of 1200 C.E. could not leave the cloister, could not receive visitors, could not attend university. Yet Jesus taught women theology and let women preach publically in the bible (Mary Magdala, Samaritan woman). I knew Peter and other apostles were married.

What nonsense that our priests must be only celibates, Jesus chose lots of married men and married women as apostles, disciples. Peter married, wife of Chuza is what a lady apostle is called, that's marriage.

We need VOTF as there is still abuse going on and embezzlement. People who gloat over no one being an overseer of the church seem to condone abuses by clergy and corruption.

My eyebrows go up every time I see so called educated people acting as if lay people have no say in the direction of Church. It is "our" church - not "their" church. From the early days, it was lay people who called together and appointed the leaders. It was the lay people who called people to orders etc. This concept that the hierarchy has the answers and must be obeyed in all circumstance is idiotic. To follow without question is how the flock falls off the cliff as they follow the lead blindly. The bishops showed clearly they were arrogant on the "abuse" question. They still have not gotten it in some cases. They also swing that crozier and make decisions with no input from those who "pay in the pew" for the parishes and programs to survive. WE are the church. It is a circle - not a pyramid. Give to save VOTF!!!!!!!!!!

The difficulty with Voice of the Faithful is that they have largely been
stuck preaching to themselves. The bishops aren't listening to them, and
put an exclamation point on their deafness by refusing VOTF meeting space.

Catholics-at-large either reject them because their bishops don't approve,
or they reject them because they are themselves conservative, or ignore them
because "Church" to them is something they do on a Sunday morning and perhaps
also the building next to the private school where they send their kids.

Before there was VOTF (and CTA and Future Church), there were already legions
(bad choice of term, maybe) of us "trying to change the Church from within."
As illustrated by the abuse scandal and the institutional response to it, not
much has changed.

The question is whether the time, energy, and money should be spent trying to
put new wine into old skins. Or should it rather be spent forming faith communities
served by women and married priests, inclusive of re-married people, and of those who
view procreation as a matter of conscience, those who may favor a different solution
to the abortion problem than the one prescribed by the bishops, equal in its
treatment of same-sex couples.

The magisterium's response to VOTF's attempt to nail its thesis upon the door
of the cathedral has been to install a more impervious door and to shut it firmly.

In a world where resources are finite, and "working from within" fails, it is perhaps
time to re-channel that energy. Perhaps VOTF's financial supporters feel that way.

Oh, good.
Next time someone wishes to start a Catholic social organization, maybe they should try making it Catholic.

The early returns from the fundraising appeal are heartening indeed.

Here is what went out today, with a few gloatings (what else?) from the Catholic League included:

Dear Friends,

When we announced to you earlier this week our need to raise $60,000 by July 31st to keep our national office open, we notified the media in an example of financial transparency. In just 48 hours, 352 members have contributed over $33,000 (more than half of our goal) to help us meet our immediate crisis.

Media coverage also has elicited comments from long-standing naysayers and critics. We certainly didn't expect a contribution from The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, but Director of Communications Susan A. Fani went so far as to issue the following yesterday:

"Voice Is Toast
Voice of the Faithful is now preparing its obituary. After lecturing the Catholic Church for years on such matters as financial accountability, the organization is in financial ruins. According to Voice officials, it needs $60,000 just to pay its summer bills. Good luck: it is well-known that Voice members are incredibly stingy.

To the extent that the Church made necessary reforms, it effectively spelled the demise of Voice. It was always a close cousin to Call to Action, another moribund organization, and now the cat is out of the bag. To think that Voice can exist as a volunteer group is delusional. Quite frankly, Voice is toast."

In contrast David Clohessy, Executive Director of SNAP is quoted in the National Catholic Reporter's story yesterday as follows:
“Millions of Catholics are grateful that clergy sex crimes and cover ups are finally being exposed. We hope they'll step up to the plate and support this pioneering organization that works so hard to make the church a safer, healthier place.”

Clohessy warned that “an unchecked, all-powerful Catholic hierarchy is dangerous. Like politicians, bishops need checks and balances to thwart or at least reduce arrogance, callousness and recklessness. That's what VOTF steadfastly provides and what the church desperately needs.”
SNAP Outreach Director Barbara Dorris posted the following statement in response to the NCR article.

“In a church largely characterized by lay apathy and indifference, VOTF has motivated and guided tens of thousands of Catholics to make a real difference. Every Catholic who wants a safer, healthier church should support this dedicated group, not just with lip service but with donations. I'm sending a check in today.”

Who do you find compelling? Those who claim that our Church's leadership knows best and has taken care of business since 2002, or those who see the systemic flaws in our wounded Church such as SNAP and VOTF, and want to make a difference for the better?

We hope that you will join 350 of your colleagues help us maintain our national presence with your contributions. You can donate online (www.votf.org) or mail your contribution to P.O. Box 423, Newton, MA 02464

I received a few letters from these people (I am guessing from my subscription to America). What I do is open the envelope, take all the papers out, put them in the free reply envelope, and mail it in (without stamp of course). This way they get all of their garbage back, plus they pay the cost of the official mailing, and the cost of the reply mailing. After three times they got the message and took me off the list!

The first papal directive on a celibate clergy was issued by Pope Siricius in about 389. That's A.D., of course, Sandra. Look it up. You've been sold - and you're peddling - a bogus bunch of twaddle.
The ubiquitous Sister Churlish lays it all bare when she notes "the church's sexual abuse problems specifically and its understanding of sexuality in general have not abated." Most of the "sexual abuse" allegations made in the last few years in Delaware emerged from the past of 30 to 40 years ago but for some people things never "abate". The real aim of Voice of the Faithful is to change Church teaching on homosexual activity, and a celiate male priesthood; that's what it is all about. What else could "understanding of sexuality in general" possibly mean?

"What else" -besides homosexual activity and a celibate male priesthood - " could 'understanding of sexuality in general' mean'?"

Well, it might mean a more realistic look at what is "natural" behavior for loving married couples. It might mean dealing honestly with what it means to require total abstinence from sex IN MARRIAGE if one partner has HIV since use of condoms to protect the (supposedly loved) partner is forbidden. It might mean re-thinking all of the things that the Church teaches are mortal sins between married lovers. i can think of other issues, too, but that might be a good start.

To MAB - You asked: "What else could 'understanding of sexuality in general' possibly mean?

Your comment implies an agenda that is *not* there for me, as a former VOTF member.

The consequences of not understanding *sexuality in general* in our church, and Vatican insistence on mandatory celibacy in the priesthood is great.

Acording to respected retired Benedictine, Fr. Richard Sipe, included are the following statistics, fallout caused by not understanding sexuality:

Only 2% of priests have the true "gift" of celibacy, and prefer continence.

Another 8% "will" themselves into maintaining continence.

40% of priests struggle with continence, and fail.

50% of priests are sexually active, on a continual basis, heterosexually (Fr. Cutie) or homosexually.

I support a married MALE priesthood, as did Jesus. He chose MARRIED MEN to be His apostles.

Apostolic tradition, documented in Scripture, supports a married male priesthood. NO WOMEN PRIESTS. NO SAME SEX MARRIAGE. NO ABORTION. But, yes, the "Deposit of Faith" supports a married MALE priesthood, just like the church Jesus left us.

Read "Illicit Celibacy and The Deposit of Faith" by Edgar Davie, for a complete scenario of how the PRACTICE of celibacy came to be.

Mandatory celibacy is NOT Dogma. It's NOT even Doctrine. Mandatory celibacy is only a PRACTICE for the WESTERN church, that could be changed tomorrow.

Based on Fr. Sipe's statistics, and *all* the priests I've known about throughout my life, that *have* had sexual relationships, it *should* be.

By the way, Pope Siricius that you mentioned was married. He abandoned his wife and family to assume the papacy in 399AD. He was the FIRST to take the title "Pope" and Rome, a place of political and palace struggles, at the time. So perhaps he could be called the FIRST among Dead Beat Dads too.

Maybe if they change their name to "Voice of the bitter 60 year olds who don't get it yet" they will make more money.

Ahhhh! The arrogance of education! Especially a Catholic one, dealing with particularly Catholic issues! It's a, "Trees blocking the view of the beautiful forest", kind of thing. "I have been trained not to see trees! Consequently I see more of the forest than you do, and I am qualified to inform you of what you are missing and explain it to you, in depth!"
Personally, I am one of those sixty + year olds! Not bitter! But I still prob'ly don't get it! (I try not to whine)
Being a survivor, (I think) of clergy abuse, I can only offer my home grown, (no help from "Holy Mother Church" as yet),recently accepted, view of how it really is! (Do you know?)

I have seen the darkness, Ive been on my own!
And even in my darkest hours, I've never been alone!

Because, somebody loves me! I know it's true.
Somebody thinks of me, when each day is through.
Somebody who knows me, for more than I do.
Somebody loves me! Is that somebody YOU?

Somebody needs me! But not all the time.
Somebody who sees me, as patient and kind.
Somebdy who knows me and all I've been through.
Somebody loves me! Is that somebody You?

Alone, isn't always lonely! And lonely isn't always by yourself!
I've had time, as a one and only! I won't spend more time on that shelf!

Believe me! Somebody loves me! I know that's true.
Somebody thinks of me, when each day is through.
Somebody who knows me, and all I can be!
Somebody loves me! And that Somebody's ME!
Yeah! I am somebody! And Somebody loves me!

The initial step in solving conflict is to attack the issue! The heavy handed use of the power of knowledge simply to illustrate that power, is what
abuse and molestation are all about! See! I told you so! It's a particularly Catholic thing! Or! Is it indigenously Irish?

I continually hear from Catholics, about "the church that Christ left us" Well He also admonished that, "Whatsoever you do unto the least of these, you do also unto Me!" Would any of us deign to relieve Christ of His dignity?
Think about it!

James Edward

Sex, Priests, and Secret Codes: The Catholic Church's 2000 Year Paper Trail of Sexual Abuse Thomas P. Doyle, A.W.R. Sipe, Patrick J. Wall, 2006 is very informative about the celibacy issue and the pedophile sex abuse scandal of the church.

Thanks for showing that yes celibacy is 12th century really to mistaken MAB.

For goodness sake, MAB, what about the fact St. Peter was MARRIED, had a MOTHER-IN-LAW that Jesus healed, SON Mark do you not get?

That is Married, not celibate for St. Peter. Wife of Chuza, that's wife, is another disciple, apostle. Apostolic succession of married, not celibate, MAB. Jesus chose Married not celibate, MAB.

I do not post any "twaddle" MAB. Another book that is great and exciting to read, a real page turner and fascinating is Stephen O'Shea's book about the Cathars of Italy and France, and it deals with the celibate priests onset and issue in the Catholic church too. Get a load of the date, MAB, and I welcome you getting a better understanding of the history of the Roman Catholic church.

Sandra -

You are correct and thanks for the recommendation of the Sex, Priests and Secret Codes by well known and respected experts in the church. I hadn't heard of that book.

Regarding St. Peter being married - you are correct. In fact, a friend mentioned something to me recently that caught my attention:

He said, "If St. Peter wanted to answer the call to be a priest today, he would be denied entrance into all Roman Catholic seminaries worldwide, because he would not meet their primary qualification for entrance. St. Peter would be rejected, because he was married."

Just like cults, sects, and groups in the past, VOTF is a dot in the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church that is fading away. If I were you, you should have more devotion to Our Lady of Fatima instead of wasting your time trying to undermine the Catholic Church.

This news made my day.

God is good.

When you answer your mail....