SNAP subpoenas harm key ally for victims

Guess I missed Catechism on the day that they covered dogmatic Catholic karma, monsignor. I thought it was a Buddhist concept. That aside, your logic is convoluted and you compare two completely different cases of civil discovery and lump them in together. Your mean-spirited attack on SNAP misses the mark. Shouldn't you leave that job to Bill Donohue. Evidently he gets paid by the word.

The Monsignor is confused. The lies and coverup of the rape, molestation, sodomy, etc., by priests all over the world are significant of the moral decay of the hierarchy of the church. Why is Rome focusing on the liturgical "reformation", for example, if not to take the spotlight away from what they should be doing which is to confess these lies and coverups publically to catholics worldwide. No one hates bishops, only what they continue to NOT do - protect our children. Perhaps I misread the teaching of Jesus: "Suffer the children to come unto me" doesn't end with "and I will make them suffer so very much they will commit suicide". Perhaps that's in the clerical version?

As a member of the papal household your fidelity is a per se given, However the rewarding of disgraced Cardinal Law, the ignoring of two pounds of testimony against Marcial delivered in 1998 and his espousal by JP II demonstrate headquarters has ignored or fought against the victims consistently. SNAP is opposed to those clerics who abuse children but has had great moral uspport from many lower clergy, thus tagging it as anti-clerical is an exaggeration. The tactics used in Chicago in the 80's against victims were mean and subsequent response was in kind to the shame of the initial violence.

Anti-clericalism is in the self-protecting eyes of the clerical beholder!

Msgr. JCD's covenant - contract, not 'karma, with his parents, which as a JCD he should know, is that parents more properly should have known: "Did you not know...?" (Luke 2:49; Cf. canon 229.1). SNAP and the other church personnel/authorities are complicit in protecting the relevant church authorities who are the heads of domestic churches in general. Msgr. Robert Rehkemper named them in the 1997 Dallas Diocese case of Fr Rudi Kos as "the parents". Oliver Clark, E.oliver.clark5@bigpond.com

Msgr.
You belong to a corrupt organized crime organization - which is known as The Roman Catholic Church.
Person who are trying to show how horrific your crimes are, must in your words be "mean spirited" - when in reality they are simply showing the world the horror of it all.

Wow - and can you back up this statement with facts? Sounds like you are possibly a little angry about "the church organization" having to make their records public - when they covered up and moved priests around for years without anyone questioning this practice. Protect the church was the modus operendi - not protect the innoccent victims - now you are still wanting to go after the privacy of the victims. Mean spirited - anticlerical? Maybe determined to make perpetrators face the music is more like it - including those involved in the coverups - very few of who have been prosecuted - and we the people in the pew are still having to pay financially for this malfeance. What is your name Msgr - so I can make sure I am never in your parish.

Mean spirited? Holy Cow or Sacred Cow--which is it that no one can speak up to the Church? Or call it to do justice?

Imagine someone becoming mean spirited because they were raped as a child, then lied to by an organization that was protecting tens of thousands of other child rapists.

You can't imagine that, Msgr, because you're a part of the organization. And you will learn true karma when God asks you whether you followed God's laws or bishop's laws.

I wouldn't say that I'm a mean-spirited person but I am very much anti-clerical. But I'm anti-clerical for a good reason. The leadership of the catholic church is corrupt, so it should be taken down in any way possible. If SNAP helps lessen the power and influence of the institutional church, then I'm all for it.

What happened to Bartek Obloj is terrible and I hope that whoever is responsible is made to answer for that. That being said, for NCR and/or SNAP to use that tragedy to garner sympathy and support in SNAP's attempt to circumvent the law is despicable. SNAP is no better than any other organization and should be held just as accountable as any other organization under the law. I agree with the above poster that SNAP is a mean-spirited anti-clerical bunch that is out to destroy the Church. If SNAP put as much energy and time and money into truly helping victims as it does into bashing the Church and holding its sidewalk press conferences and doing PR it might be more credible. David Clohessy is trying desperately to hold on to his job and it seems that he'll sink to any depth to do that.

The abusers and the abuser protectors are especially fearful and never pass an opportunity to express their disdain of SNAP, Bishop Accountability or any of the other organized advocates of the victims of priestly abuse.

Shame on you, Father, for giving the impression that you support sexual abuse with your insinuation against SNAP. A friend of mine was made a Monsignor but refused to use the title because he found it ostentatious and a symbol of arrogance. You use it to identify yourself.

Your comparison between SNAP's respect for confidentiality and the Catholic Church's hiding of evidence is absurd on the face of it. If you wish to pursue that argument, you would have to require courts to reveal what penitents say to the priests in confession. I don't think you want to go there!

Msgr JCD: Where are the Promoters of Justice? They appear to have disappeared from the Catholic judicial scene. The canons are few on protecting the "good reputation" of someone, and many supporting the rights of the People of God. Why is not the Church court system taking an active role in prosecuting these cases? If the Church justice system were operating properly there would be no need to enter into the civil system. We have a POJ in our diocese, but know of no cases ever brought forth following public accusations. Do the Christifideles know of their rights? Very few.

Sorry, MSGR, but I'll have to have proof of that in the way of specific details before I will believe you.

Msgr. If it was not for SNAP's incessant press releases and high exposure in the media, the clergy would still be abusing with impunity, as they have done from time beginning, and increasingly since celibacy was forced for reasons of economy, power and control.

SNAP's singly focus is THE reason why this nation and the world at large cannot ignore anymore this insidious crime. Although it is an instant battle it seems, many other organzations and name recognitions individuals give credence to eradicate this evil, with the help of the internet.

Lest see if the courts will knuckle under the pressure from this viral hierarchy.

Spiteful comment. I don't think there's ever been a documented case of SNAP sexually abusing a child - and SNAP would not exist today if the church had taken appropriate steps to safeguard children. "SNAP may be all many victims have" is in itself a reason to keep the organization healthy and allow it to do what it does best - help victims and their families try to regain some sense of normalcy in their lives. It's an uphill task.

How many abusive priests have been removed from ministry because of SNAP and those victims who went public? How many children and vulnerable adults have NOT been abused in the past decade because of the work of SNAP and David Clohessey? We owe SNAP a great deal of thanks.

Unfortunately, most of the priests who abused are still functioning within the Catholic church even if removed from active ministry. They are not in jail, but still able to access children. Very few have been defrocked. Stopping child sexual abuse by clergy should be the focus of the the readers, not attacking David for speaking out against the church for protecting pedophile priests. Catholics, including non-abusing clergy need to be speaking with one voice on this subject and have zero tolerance for child sexual abuse. Twenty thousand victims of abusive priests in the US alone who have sued the church is too many. The number of victims who never sued the church is unknown. The collateral damage to the non-abusing priests, parishioners, and family of the victims is staggering.

Again, speak with one moral voice on this. Can't we all agree, no one wants sexually abusive priests to have access to children and vulnerable adults?

As Hans Kung has stated, the Catholic Church has not YET been through enough pain for it to demand change. More pain is coming.
We need to take the $$ that we WOULD HAVE contributed to our ailing, self-electing Church leadership and give that money to SNAP and CTA, etc. When the hierarchs run out of money, then the Church must me run by lay theologians and women as well as ordained men and women. Change will only happen when we "wake up" and stop enabling our disfunctional system.

Indeed, Claire. I'm writing a check today.

Amen to that.

Amen. Do you think that Jesus would support the rapists or the rape victims?

Am already doing that, ie contributing to SNAP.

They have been phenomenal. On a minuscule budget they have managed to hold the largest institution in the world, accountable, relative to sexual abuse of innocent children and the egregious 'passing on of predators.'

It's no accident that they are facing tough and very unjust court challenges right now, perhaps the price of their effectiveness.

My hope and prayer is that they will survive this attack and move on.

And they can use the money. From all their donations and "contributions" for litigation they did spend a whopping 580 dollars on victim support! (This is from their own IRS filings).

Talk about 'feeding the beast'!

When the playing field is no longer level, as appears to be the case in Missouri, Truth and the search for Truth is usually the first casualty. And the second is like unto the first: loss of respect for those who tilt the field by abusing the civil discovery process, and the courts that permit such abuse by abdicating its responsibility for the integrity of the discovery process.

That's why the court of public opinion may reach a different result than the Missouri courts. When both church and state effectively abort the search for Truth, chaos rules.

SNAP is by no stretch of the imagination a domestic violence shelter or a rape crisis center. D. Clohessy trotted out that description of SNAP to avoid compliance with the law.

Exactly.

It pains me to read this editorial in the National Catholic Reporter, a newspaper that has had, since its founding, an unparalleled record of defending civil right of ALL people.

Now we find that NCR is opposed to the full, fair and LEGAL (as ruled by three different courts) defense of lawsuits filed against Catholic priests.

OK, NCR. What next? What civil rights will you next seek to limit against what class of people?

Mildred, most cases of child abuse are identified by the courts and news outlets by the name John or Jane Doe--unless the victim states otherwise. It's to protect their privacy--shock. A blanket subpoena of SNAP's records would indeed violate the privacy of thousands of victims and this is what these attorney's are after by requesting all information on 'repressed memories'.

NCR liberals know that when it comes to criminal malfeasance, The Holy Roman Catholic Church has no religious competitors. It's in a class by itself. Jesus weeps.

So, Judy, should the Church not defend itself? Should priests who are unlawfully accused not defend themselves? Whether you believe it or not, there are false accusations that have been made. One was reported just the other day in the Syracuse University case. Should everyone just take an accuser at face value? Should everyone just take what SNAP says as true without any investigation? That may be SNAP's way but it is not American justice. Please understand that I don't support abuse by anybody and that I believe every true victim ought to be heard, but to say that simply because SNAP says it's so we should all simply believe it is so is not right. Nor is it honest to say that it's not about the money. If it really wasn't about the money there wouldn't be any lawsuits, would there? Victims should receive every consideration for counseling and therapy where needed but to go after enormous multimillion dollar settlements and then say 'it's not about the money' is just nonsense! What legacy are you leaving your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren?

First of all, Judy, thank you for the work that you do. Your description of your mother fits my experience of about 85% of the Catholics that I know who are over the age of 50. The fact that your mother would believe the Catholic Church rather than her own son shows the power of brainwashing. It is still widespread in the elderly Catholics who are still fearful to question the priest, bishop, or pope. The younger people see the brain drain for what it is and pay no attention to the church. Thank God, and with Divine grace, they will be able to find real spirituality.

Having worked with the young my entire life, I recognized immediately the truthfulness of what they were saying in reporting sexual abuse on the part of the Catholic clergy. When the church authorities attacked the victims and the media for reporting the abuse, I was then certain of the authenticity of the charges of the kids. At that time, over 10 years ago, I stopped all financial support of the Catholic church. I discussed this with my pastor, and his response was to stand up for Cardinal Law.

The money that formerly went to the Catholic church now goes to legitimate charitable organizations that honor financial transparency and their mission statements. These include: "Doctors Without Borders", "Project Hope", "Christian Appalachian Project", and "Food for the Poor". All of these have been investigated for financial transparency and adherence to their stated purpose and have been found to be honest and true by CharityNavigator.org

Today I am adding SNAP to that list and will be sending a check this afternoon. Ten years ago I determined that the enabling of the Catholic church must end; it was time to take off the blinders that they had placed on me, and take action as a real Christian.

"When the victims who sued went to a legal and public avenue, did that anger Bishops who were found in the court system (Finn) to be criminally liable?"

Holy Cow! Bishop Finn has not been found to be anything, including "criminally liable" yet!

He stands accused -- ACCUSED -- of a crime, and as such, he not only has the presumption of innocence, requiring the state to prove its case, but also the right to defend himself.

Wow! Some NCR readers would make a great lynch mob. Dispense with the trial and get right to the hanging. After all, we "know" he is guilty!

Bravo, Maureen! My sentiments exactly. To use this tragedy simply to take yet another swat at the Catholic Church and bolster support for SNAP is despicable. It's worthy of SNAP's tactics, though!

You say that "no one is going to die or be damaged when SNAP goes down." I have to disagree with you. I am a survivor; prior to becoming acquainted with SNAP, I was a victim. The volunteers of SNAP saved my life, and I can guarantee you that I am not alone is saying this. You should be mindful of the future victims (and we all know that people continue to be abused to this day) that will need SNAP to help them move beyond being a victim and become a survivor. So yes, people will definitely be hurt if SNAP goes down.

I think your 'theological context' is flawed, Greg. What exactly do you want the Church of Rome to do? Not 'truly repenting from its sins against the children in its care'? How many apologies do you want? How many more safe environment programs should be initiated? How much more money should be spent on settlements? And do you consider the lawful legal means some falsely accused priests and the Church take to remedy a situation persecution of victims? Please say EXACTLY what it is you're looking for.