SNAP receives second subpoena request for documents

Right you are! It's disturbing that the church (RC church in Missouri) is subjecting SNAP to legal discovery proceedings incident to litigation.

It's also way, way more than disturbing! If our bishops had paid proper attention to Fr. Tom Doyle and others, they almost certainly would not need to launch discovery of any sort to get the truth, and their people would not have to bear the deception, shame, heartache and expense that the bishops have inflicted on their own people!

Legal discovery "St. Louis Style" is a strong indicator that the church has a weak defense (or none at all), is acting in bad faith and dealing unfairly, or all of the above. The church may win a skirmish here and a battle there, but has already lost the war it claims to be fighting against clerical sexual abuse, as well as the war it's declared on SNAP. Once more, our bishops have proved to us that we cannot trust them.

“Their [SNAP’s] goal is to protect children and be a safe haven for victims”

Utter nonsense. Their goal is political: a struggle for power and implementation of structural change within the Church. The tragic cases of sexual abuse are simply a means to achieve this goal.

The tragic experiences of the victims are only used as tools to inflict as much damage as possible on the institutional Church, both financially and morally, in the hope that there will be an ‘Arab Spring’ in the Church, where the people will rise up and get rid of the hierarchy, and finally the ‘fair-minded’ leaders of SNAP and their cohorts will assume their ‘rightful’ positions. Except when SNAP’s and its leaders self-interest demands, they forget accountability and transparency and they behave as the worst bullies, and wilfully disobey the law.

If SNAP would be concerned about children:
- it would not dismiss the latest John Jay report for drawing attention to the non-ecclesiological factors (factors other than celibacy, hierarchy, etc.) as the root-causes of child sexual abuse, factors that are widespread and are social and cultural in nature;
- it would do everything it can to stop the increasing trends in child sexual abuse and child porn (in the US 25% of girls and 16% of boys are sexually abused prior to reaching age 18 (Finkelhor, at al., 1990). According to Vogelnatz, Wilsnack, and Harris (1999), child sexual abuse among girls in the US ranges between 21% - 32%.);
- it would try to explain why it is that while in society (in other institutions) child sexual exploitation is on the increase, in the RC Church, as a result of a sharp falling trend since the early 90s, there are all but no new cases.

No, SNAP is not a safe haven for victims and children. It is a rootless, self-serving political fighting machine and as such, it is making a mockery of such values as justice, reconciliation, love and unity.

So let me see if I understand. It's fair for SNAP to jump into the ring of a bare-knuckle fight, but wrong for the other side to fight back?

Here's what I don't understand. If I am a plaintiff's attorney with absolutely no connection to SNAP, and SNAP and Clohessy hold a press conference the very day I file suit calling my client a "victim" and the defendant a "perpetrator," I would depose him in a heartbeat to find out what he might know about either party, particularly the defendant, that I don't in order to help me build my case.

Here's another thing that seems to be misunderstood. Our legal system is an adversarial system. The process doesn't end the moment an allegation is lodged. The burden of proof remains on the plaintiff to prove the specific allegations in this specific case are true, and the defendant has the right to a vigorous defense, including the right to depose people who interject themselves in the middle of ongoing litigation.

For the church to demand full disclosure and transparency from any organization is totally disingenuous. The point being, in EVERY SETTLED case of priest/child horror, the rcc pays extra for a gag order, so the victim remains silent as to the details. Perhaps, the church should look in the mirror. Camp cover-up must be shut down.
And, for the record...I 100% believe SNAP should turn over all pertinent documents.
Peace to all.

I agree. SNAP has appointed itself policeman, judge, and jury. They pontificate on situation about which they really know nothing, and no apologies when the poor guy is finally exonerated. In fact, he might still be included in their list of offenders.

Persecute? The word that justice is looking for is PROSECUTE! And so far the real criminals keep slipping through the cracks. Silence is a sin! Closing your eyes to the terrors children should never have to face is a sin and an abomination.

We have the court system to allow victims who chose to sue to take case and prove it in a court of law, provided there is a criminal statute left. Innocent priests falsely accused would have had their day in court. Unfortunately, the Church has lobbyied state governments to allow for a change in the criminal statute of limitations. Unfortunatley church authorities refused to report the abuse timely to the police that would have allowed for timely legal investigations, and ran out the criminal statutes of limitation. This would have allowed for due process in our legal system to expose false accusations. Even though the church ran out the criminal statutes of limitations, the victims could still sue under civil statutes for monetary damages. The priests who felt they were falsely accused could defend themselves in a court of law. Unfortunately, the church settled with the majority of victims out of court for undisclosed monetary damages and had the majority of victims sign gag orders. Or, to avoid paying out the monetary damages after settlements, they filed for bankrtupcy. The due process that would have allowed trials in a US court, never happened due to the church's policies of avoiding having a Bishop or religious superior ever testify in a court of law and expose their own criminal misconduct in not reporting to police. What the Bishops and religious superiors were attempting to avoid is for themselves was jail time once it was proved in a court of law that they had deliberately failed to report to police child sexual abuse. Bishops and religous superiors would be criminal charged and would have to do jail time. This is why they settled out of court and why they declared bankruptcy, precised to keep due process from occuring. Yes, potentially innocent priests may have never been given his/her day in court. But, if guilty bishops and religous superiors had to chose between themselves and an innocent priest, they chose themselves, just as they put themselve ahead of a child and exposed them to guilty priests. Just as the bishops put themselves ahead of the poor whose money the $2billion in settlements would have helped. The church's policy has always been about protecting the religious authorities from being held liable for the clerical abuse and the cover-up.

SNAP did the ministry and Christian charity to victims of clerical abuse the Church never provided due to the policies of the church to treat victims of clerical abuse as enemies. This latest attempt at massacuring the innocents by beheading the person in charge of victims organization is all the more evil. SNAP and it's membership have exposed the evilness within the church.

Many of the victims of abuse who sought support from SNAP never sued the church or went public and no "innocent" priest would have had to fear public exposure. These "silent" victims rights are now being threatened. People do have the right to remain silent in the US. I suspect the number of "silent" victims is staggering.

Innocent priests would not be doing to David Clohessey and all the victims of clerical abuse what is being done now. This is evidence of guilt, not innocence.

Amen.

I not only pray that all the priests who feel that they have been falsely accused line up in front of the courthouse, I insist that they go inside and defend themselves.

In the history of snap's existence, and unrelated to snap, and acknowledged by the church, only four cases have ever been found in court to be false allegations. If you and the church are in possession of indisputable evidence that the accused priests are innocent and being falsely accused, take your evidence to court.

The church universally SETTLES out of court, not because the accusing victim has made a false accusation, but because they KNOW the accused priest is guilty or vulnerable on other transgressions and the church does not want the truth to be known. I predict that the number of clergy found guilty and serving jail time and the amount of the judgements against the church would be astronomically more if the church and the clerics went to trial.

If you doubt this prediction, pressure the church to go to court and defend the accused clerics in the justice system. Victims DO NOT want to settle. They want their day in court. The church is the source of the settlements because they do not have faith in their case (or have knowledge that they are culpable).

Mr. Thibault, do you have a list of those falsely accused and abused priests?

I don't seem to recall having read about a "line" of such priests in the media.

And yet you imply that there's a line of them out there.

Would you please list the cases you know, from verified sources and media reports? I'd appreciate knowing this information.

And what, pray tell, has the church been doing to the countless children raped and sodomized by its' priests for centuries? The implication in your remark is that SNAP is out to destroy the church. Nothing could be further from the truth. The greatest danger to the welfare, indeed the very existence of the church is the hierarchy of the church the world over which, not only orchestrated the cover-up of the heinous crimes committed by their priests, but moved them to fresh feeding grounds, never warning those at his new assignment a sexual monster was entering their midst. Then they employed the underhanded tactics by their high priced lawyers to stifle the cries of those children.
Add to that mix the deafening silence from those so called faithful who knew and said nothing about what was happening to their neighbor's children at the hands of the parish priest.
Organizations like SNAP, VOTF, CTA, Road to Recovery, STTOP, Bishop Accountability and Voice from the Desert by exposing and removing the rot and stinking weeds that infest the church from the halls of the Vatican to the local parish in every nation in the world are seeking to make it a safe place for the laity and their children to worship God. Indeed many members of these groups are are devout catholics who love their church....... and your children!

And what, pray tell, has the church been doing to the countless children raped and sodomized by its' priests for centuries? The implication in your remark is that SNAP is out to destroy the church. Nothing could be further from the truth. The greatest danger to the welfare, indeed the very existence of the church is the hierarchy of the church the world over which, not only orchestrated the cover-up of the heinous crimes committed by their priests, but moved them to fresh feeding grounds, never warning those at his new assignment a sexual monster was entering their midst. Then they employed the underhanded tactics by their high priced lawyers to stifle the cries of those children.
Add to that mix the deafening silence from those so called faithful who knew and said nothing about what was happening to their neighbor's children at the hands of the parish priest.
Organizations like SNAP, VOTF, CTA, Road to Recovery, STTOP, Bishop Accountability and Voice from the Desert by exposing and removing the rot and stinking weeds that infest the church from the halls of the Vatican to the local parish in every nation in the world are seeking to make it a safe place for the laity and their children to worship God. Indeed many members of these groups are are devout catholics who love their church....... and your children!

You say: Shockingly, history has shown that people have told fibs to get a nice check. And oddly, theyre not always anxious to be "transparent" about it.

In the history of snap's existence, and unrelated to snap, and acknowledged by the church, only four cases have ever been found in court to be false allegations. If you and the church are in possession of indisputable evidence that the accused priests are innocent and being falsely accused, take your evidence to court.

The church universally SETTLES out of court, not because the accusing victim has made a false accusation, but because they KNOW the accused priest is guilty or vulnerable on other transgressions and the church does not want the truth to be known. I predict that the number of clergy found guilty and serving jail time and the amount of the judgements against the church would be astronomically more if the church and the clerics went to trial.

If you doubt this prediction, pressure the church to go to court and defend the accused clerics in the justice system. Victims DO NOT want to settle. They want their day in court. The church is the source of the settlements because they do not have faith in their case (or have knowledge that they are culpable).

Was the first one from a pedophile priest? Was he convicted? Who proved anything? Or did SNAP tell you he was a pedophile?

Don't allow this or any other thing keep you from the community of faith. The original 12 we frail, sinful humans...so are we all. Yet it is the community of faith..the communion...which supports us...as we support each other. Things like this sadden us all...but it should be a reminder that we are all sinful...and mess up. ALL OF US. Whoever has no sin cast the first stone!

bless you forever Georgiana. Go well.

Leaving the church is what the Evil One wanted you to do, not stay and fight for the church so that God's will be done on earth as in heaven. The more good Catholics leave, the more Evil Bishops and priests remain to harm God's flocks. Good for David Clohessey for doing what a loving church should have done to victims of abuse.

Amen, Sister!

Amen! Absolutely true! Great insight! Everyone bow the knee to SNAP who has not put itself above the law and everyone else.

The material difference being of course that SNAP is not the one that had members raping children. See, that's the difference. If your child had been subjected to this, I can assure you that you would be thrilled (blessed) to have a place like SNAP where they would talk to them and try and make them feel better AND keep them from killing themselves.

I guess anything that doesn't agree with your PVO justifies attack. This horrific SNAP "brave new world" in which the church is transparent about what children its priests have raped, just doesn't sound like that bad of a goal to me. I guess you like your child rape secret.

It's called "discovery" and it's part of every court case.

A recent publication included SNAPs tax returns for the previous year and their total income was around four hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Dwight, you are wrong! The church has stampeded hundreds of thousends of victims into oblivien, since day one. The church leadership is corrupt and has gotten away with unspeakable crimes. Law enforcement have been deferrential to the hierarchy and the holier than us clergy always. Yes laws are being perverted every day in the courts.

SNAP and Clohessy are those who have done most to reverse that evil trend. They have kept those horrific crimes consistently in the media. Their constant effort have finally emboldened victims to come forward and become the accusers. The chain reaction has spilled over into other organtions and the general population. This crime will never be ignored again thanks to SNAP, and thanks God for that. Without SNAP there would still be open season on our children for priests and other perps.

That is the reason SNAP is being targeted for destruction by the church, first and foremost. Priests falsly accused lining up? The numbers of abusing priest is way under reported, and those falsely accused rare.

We have to stand with SNAP and stop its destruction. And guess what, I am not even a member, but I certainly will become one. Yes, I have been abused by a priest 65 years ago, and there was nobody to stand up for me or the several hundred little girls in the town who where abused by this creep.

As an answer to your question Why do priests force children to have sex with them? and Why did their bishops not handle the process properly?

I would add that talking tough then whining when the other guy fights back is a classic sign of a bully.

Yep. Force every diocese and parish in the country into bankruptcy, then the real victims of clergy abuse get absolutely nothing. Brilliant!

Only until every Catholic parish, school, food pantry, soup kitchen, and hospital is out of business will the victims of child sexual abuse ever see "justice."

While we are at it, let's shut down Catholic Charities, too. After all, they are also part of this "evil empire," and certainly up to no good.

That's not simple. It's simplistic. Have you stopped paying taxes because of civil corruption? Have you stopped buying food because of contamination? Wake up and try to help, not make speeches.

Wrong as usual.

Instead of to the church, Give your hard earned money to SNAP, www.reform-work.net. NSAC, www.richardsipe.com and local organizations who advocate for the abused and needy, or give to Mother Teresa's sister. You can be sure, they do not waste money on decadent lifestyles as our bishops waste your money on.

Who do you think pays for their chauffeured limousines, the country club memberships, the high class restaurants, the palatial living quarters, the silk, satin,gold and jewelery ceremonials? Of course it is your donation money. The people, who do the actual work for the clergy get usually paid a pittance, and no benefits. The bulk of the money is used for decadence, high living, and showiness. The programs which should be funded, are shrinking, are usually underfunded and extra collection being taken for.

Now those are the facts.