SNAP director may be forced to testify in abuse case

Advocates warn deposition may spur ‘chilling effect of victims’

Dec. 29, 2011
David Clohessy (CNS)

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The leading advocacy group for child victims of clergy sex abuse may be compelled to turn over 23 years of internal documents, correspondence and email to the attorneys of an accused priest unless Missouri state courts act to quash a court-ordered deposition.

David Clohessy, head of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, known as SNAP, has been ordered to appear for deposition in a county court case involving allegations of sexual misconduct against Kansas City diocesan priest Fr. Michael Tierney.

Victims’ advocates say if Clohessy is compelled to appear, it could have wide-ranging impact on the ability of victims of clergy sex abuse to identify their accusers and tell their stories without revealing their names in public.

A law professor noted for her decades of work with clergy sex abuse victims said the “end result” of Clohessy’s deposition would be “a huge chilling effect on helping child sex abuse victims at every stage.”

Also at stake is the confidentiality of emails between reporters and victims’ advocates that may reveal sensitive information and names of sources. In a court filing, the Missouri Press Association said Clohessy’s deposition would “eviscerate the free-press guarantee” of journalists.

Clohessy has been ordered to turn over all documents and correspondence, including emails, from SNAP’s files referring to Tierney or the Kansas City-St. Joseph diocese. He is also ordered to submit all documents containing references to either Tierney or the diocese from:

  • Press releases or press release drafts;
  • Correspondence with members of the press;
  • Correspondence with the lawyer representing the alleged abuse victim;
  • Correspondence with members of the public.

Clohessy has also been ordered to submit:

  • Any documents or correspondence that “mention or refer to any priest currently or formerly” associated with the diocese;
  • Any correspondence with the victim named in the lawsuit;
  • Any correspondence from members of the public “that discuss or relates to repressed memory.”

According to court filings, defense lawyers for priests and former priests named in six other sex abuse lawsuits have requested to “cross-notice” Clohessy’s deposition in order to have access to his testimony.

Court records indicate that Clohessy and his group first attempted to quash the deposition by filing motions with Jackson County, Mo., Circuit Court Judge Ann Mesle, citing concerns of confidentiality for sex abuse victims and the rights of freedom of speech and assembly.

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The records indicate Mesle overruled those concerns Wednesday, Dec. 28, ordering Clohessy to submit himself for deposition Monday, Jan. 2.

Clohessy and his group appealed Wednesday, Dec. 28, to Missouri’s Court of Appeals for the state’s Western District to try to quash the order. That appeal, court records indicate, was denied Thursday.

Following the denial by the appeals court, Clohessy’s lawyer said he and his client are “going to take every legal option we can” to prevent the deposition and are investigating filing for review with the Missouri Supreme Court.

Tierney’s lawyers first made the request for a deposition in November. They subpoenaed Clohessy, requesting him to testify regarding his knowledge of a lawsuit filed against Tierney on behalf of an abuse victim in September 2010.

Court filings indicate that the subpoena came after defense lawyers were concerned that a party in the suit may have violated an August 2011 gag order from Mesle by revealing some information to SNAP that was included in one of the group’s press releases.

The lawsuit, filed on behalf of an anonymous man, alleges that in 1971 Tierney invited the then-13-year-old to Tierney’s mother’s house to help Tierney move boxes. Once there, the victim alleges in the suit, Tierney wrestled with him and touched him sexually.

“Fr. Tierney rushed the boy, tackling him and holding him down while he forcibly and against the boy’s will touched and fondled the boy, rubbing all over his body, including his private areas,” reads the lawsuit. “[The boy] repressed all memory of these events until approximately 2008.”

SNAP’s appeal to the Missouri Court of Appeals cited state law on the confidentiality of information given to rape crisis centers, saying the law “renders Clohessy incompetent for deposition” in the lawsuit.

Moreover, the appeal says, “each and every category of documents” required by Tierney’s subpoena is “directly related to the important advocacy services SNAP provides to this vulnerable segment of society.”

“Missouri law,” the appeal says, “plainly requires this court to prohibit enforcement of this order as an abuse of discretion, an abuse that would irreparably damage SNAP’s ability to function as a support and advocacy group for victims of sexual abuse.”

Mesle addressed Clohessy and his group’s concerns about violating state law in two separate responses to motions from Clohessy asking for the subpoena to be quashed.

In a Nov. 30 order, Mesle acknowledged that SNAP’s motions to quash the subpoena “raise significant issues” regarding the extent of the document request and privacy interests as noted in Missouri’s confidentiality law for rape crisis centers.

While Mesle said those concerns are “legitimate,” she ordered that Clohessy submit to the deposition, but said he may prepare a “privilege log” indentifying documents he believed to be confidential. Those documents, she said, could be reviewed in a closed court setting.

Along with SNAP’s request to quash Mesle’s order, the state appeals court also received two amicus briefs from groups supporting Clohessy’s arguments that his deposition and submission of documents would be unconstitutional.

In one of the briefs, the Missouri Press Association, which lists some 260 newspapers from across the state as its members, says the order, if allowed, would “chill speech by both media outlets and potential sources and significantly affect the quality of investigative reporting.”

Citing nine separate state and U.S. Supreme Court cases that outline the rights of the press, the brief says Mesle’s order would “eviscerate the free-press guarantee” by seeking “to discover the process by which the news is assembled and disseminated.”

Acknowledging that Missouri has not enacted a shield law to protect reporters from indentifying their sources, the brief cites Missouri cases that “have recognized that at some level, there must be some protection for the news-gathering process.”

The lawyer representing the association said in an interview that while the group recognizes it doesn’t have a stake in some of the issues being raised by Mesle’s order, it felt it had to file the amicus brief because the order puts a “significant burden” on the freedom of the press.

“There are many reporters across the state of Missouri who have or may have contacted Mr. Clohessy in his role at SNAP, working on stories they’re working on,” said Jean Maneke, a Kansas City-based lawyer with 25 years experience representing media organizations.

NCR is one of the organizations that may be impacted by the submission of documents, as reporters have been in contact with Clohessy as a source for decades.

“The scope of this recovery request puts a significant burden on the right, under the First Amendment, that reporters across the state have to gather information and to assert their rights under freedom of the press,” Maneke said.

The second brief filed in support of SNAP’s request to prohibit Mesle’s order is signed by 10 victims’ advocacy groups, including the Foundation to Abolish Child Sexual Abuse, the Kid Safe Foundation and the National Child Protection Training Center.

That brief argues that Mesle’s order amounts to a “violation of the anonymity and confidentiality” of SNAP members and volunteers and is “plainly unconstitutional.”

Citing the 1958 U.S. Supreme Court case NAACP v. State of Alabama, the brief likens the order to hand over SNAP documents to public identification of NAACP members in Alabama that “exposed these members to economic reprisal, loss of employment, threat of physical coercion, and other manifestations of public hostility.”

“Similarly,” the brief states, “if the discovery is permitted survivors and witnesses of sexual abuse will no longer feel comfortable approaching SNAP in confidence.”

Marci Hamilton, noted for her decades of work with clergy sex abuse victims, said the subpoena is “one of the uglier moves I’ve seen by any organization in these cases so far.”

Saying that SNAP “is the least” of the organizations that would be affected by Clohessy’s submission of documents, Hamilton, a professor at the Cardozo School of Law at New York’s Yeshiva University, said the “end result” of the order would be “a huge chilling effect on helping child sex abuse victims at every stage.”

Referencing attempts during the civil rights era to force the NAACP to release the names of its members, Hamilton said the U.S. Supreme Court had made clear in those cases that the government cannot force private organizations to release the names of its members.

“I think it’s plainly unconstitutional and, were I involved, I would be advising any organization faced with this kind of a subpoena to refuse to provide the information because it is unconstitutional, inappropriate and cruel,” said Hamilton, who is the author of Justice Denied: What America Must Do to Protect Its Children.

Asked whether Mesle’s allowing of certain SNAP documents to be read in private would protect victims, Hamilton said those revelations would still “send a really serious and sad message to victims that when they come forward…a judge may well read about the details of their abuse.”

[Joshua J. McElwee is an NCR staff writer. His email address is jmcelwee@ncronline.org.]

Editor's Note: For more NCR coverage of SNAP's subpoenas, see:

This is sad, but it's all

This is sad, but it's all that can be expected once lawyers set the tone of a debate. SNAP has enjoyed the perception of occupying the moral high ground for many years. It's interesting to watch an organization that has urged full disclosure trying to avoid any disclosure at all. It was only a matter of time before other lawyers figured out how to use their approach against them. The truly sad part of all this is that none of it helps the children who were abused.

The Church itself has

The Church itself has occupied the 'moral high ground' for centuries and has had to be dragged screaming and protesting into the justice system of every country where it has facilitated abusers and covered up the abuse of children by its clergy. And still we haven't got an admittance from the higher echelons of the Church that it conspired to cover up abuse! SNAP will refuse to comply with these silly lawyer-games. - SNAP are not likely to bend the knee on this and the Church knows it. The age of bending the knee to this morally bankrupt organisation is well over.

Interesting. When SNAP and

Interesting. When SNAP and its minions and lackeys demands transparency and full disclosure from the Church it's fitting and necessary. When the same is demanded of SNAP it's "silly lawyer-games.". You can't have it both ways, AndrewSB49! And if you or SNAP wants to see a "morally bankrupt organisation (sic)" just take a look in the mirror.

One would think that such a

One would think that such a knowledgable advocate for the victims of child sexual abuse wouldn't have to be forced to testify. Wouldn't he welcome the opportunity?

Not if he/they have something

Not if he/they have something to hide!

Hi Anonymouse I don't belong

Hi Anonymouse I don't belong to any organisation - either morally bankrupt or no - nor am I a 'lackey' or 'minion' to anyone or to any organisation - particularly any organisation comprising of allegedly celibate men dressed in skirts. But I do regularly see a morally bankrupt organisation in the Courts of Justice in Ireland as it attempts to weasel a way out of its culpability in the sexual and physical torture of thousands of Irish women and children.

The new year may bring us the sight of Ratzinger and his cohort of conspirators being arraigned before the Hague for his own culpability in the facilitation of clergy who raped and tortured children. You'd think Herr Ratzinger would welcome a forum where he could explain his criminal inaction, when head of the CDF, as he shelved almost 3,000 cases of child rape!

Andrew, "But I do regularly

Andrew,
"But I do regularly see a morally bankrupt organisation in the Courts of Justice in Ireland as it attempts to weasel a way out of its culpability in the sexual and physical torture of thousands of Irish women and children."You are talking ráiméis .
When was the last case before an Irish court . Oh Yes and Cloyne priest found innocent by the criminal courts, twice in fact. If you spent anytime at the Irish courts you would realise that everyday there are abuse cases and none of them involve clergy or religious.
The last part of you posting is as inaccurate as the first part.

"Anonymous" you are such a

"Anonymous" you are such a gutless wonder.

Come out from lurking in the shadows, "Anonymous," and identify yourself so that all of us know just exactly who it is that fears any moral scrutiny from the public. Let's see how brave you are when you can no longer hide and conceal your contemptible shame and hate.

I don't expect that "Anonymous" will ever come out of the black hole (s)he inhabits. But, we will keep watch and wait nonetheless so that eventually the public will have the benefit of sunshine to make their judgements.

The legal maneuver to try to get SNAP to disclose private conversations it has with survivors and their representatives is an example of the bullying, hardball tactics that Catholic Church attorneys have employed for years to intimidate survivors and their advocates. I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the attorney for this perpetrator priest is being paid for out of Kansas City diocese priest-perpetrator slush funds!

P.S. The reason that SNAP does not want to reveal the identities of survivors who have come to them in strictest confidence is because SNAP has always held the interest of the survivor paramount, not the interests of the perpetrator priests or bishops as does apparently "Anonymous," or even the interests of attorneys or courts. If the survivor's names are revealed before the survivor is ready to come forward publicly and gives permission to do so, then SNAP could be guilty of "reenacting" the assault, and re-victimizing the survivor.

The price for survivors has already been too high!

Have you ever been to a SNAP

Have you ever been to a SNAP "press conference"? SNAP encourages the "survivors" to re-enact the "assault" over and over and over again!

I think what SNAP and

I think what SNAP and Clohessy fear most is exposure not as a "support network" for the victims of abuse, but a "support network" for the network of trial attorneys.

SNAP certainly does that job well, with the compliance of an unquestioning media, of whipping up a frenzy, finding new clients with "recovered memories," and poisoning the jury pool to the extent that an accusation is the same as a conviction -- guilty until proven innocent, and it is impossible for a priest, once accused, to prove his innocence, even if exonerated in court.

I also wonder what NCR would possibly have to fear from the release of SNAP correspondence with it.

AMEN

AMEN

I am also wondering if SNAP

I am also wondering if SNAP might be concerned over its 501 (c) 3 status. I would hope they are spending the funds they solicit on exactly what they say they are spending them on --- support for victims of sexual abuse.

These are vicious lies posted

These are vicious lies posted by "Anonymous" on a public blog without attribution by obviously gutless liars who would never want their identities to be publicly known.

NCR should remove these postings ASAP.

If these cretans want to troll their filthy lies in public, they should be required to identify themselves so that the rest of us can know to whom to assign responsibility and blame.

Why should one take any

Why should one take any notice of what is written by 'Anonymous'?
What is the value of an 'anonymous' source?

F. Pimentel-Pinto

Got to be worth something as

Got to be worth something as the mainstream liberal media lives on anonymous sources for its "news".

So how do we know you are

So how do we know you are really "Jim Jenkins"?

Like some of the viscous lies

Like some of the viscous lies SNAP perpetrates at their sidewalk press conferences when they condemn priests BEFORE their trials? Hmmmm?

Ironic much? Anonymous can't

Ironic much? Anonymous can't be allowed to speak anonymously, but SNAP and their victim advocates can?

Ironic you say that in an

Ironic you say that in an article dealing with SNAP trying to keep their dirty secrets secret.

If you knew how to spell

If you knew how to spell cretins correctly, I might take what you have to say seriously.

NONE OF THIS WOULD BE

NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING IF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
WOULD HAVE DONE THE "RIGHT" THING IN THE FIRST PLACE
STARTING WITH LOUISIANA BACK IN THE 1980's.
THE BISHOP IN MY DIOCESE HAS THREATENED OUR
PRIESTS TO NOT SAY ANYTHING REGARDING
CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN RAPED BY PRIESTS
NOR ARE THEY ALLOWED TO TELL US PARENTS
OF ANY PRIESTS SUSPECTED OF RAPING A CHILD.
WHAT OF THE 2002 CHARTER TO PROTECT CHILDREN & YOUNG PEOPLE ?
THIS AND EVERY DAY IS DRAWING US CLOSER TO THE END OF THE RCC INSTITUTION
THAT HAS CREATED THIS UN-GODLY MESS !

DO NOT BEND YOUR KNEE DAVID,
AT LEAST, NOT TO THIS UN-GODLY INSTITUTION WHICH HAS HIJACKED THE CHURCH.

THEIR END IS COMING SOONER THAN WE HAD ALL HOPED!

GOD SPEED TO US ALL

I rushed over the article,

I rushed over the article, and wondered:"Why is the diocese not forced to give all their paperwork in regard to this case? Why do the victims have to give all their information and the victim has to be victimized again?
Annemiek Brunklaus

Having read the article twice

Having read the article twice now, it looks like the dioceses hasn't been asked to turn over documents because the question is whether one of the parties violated a court order not to discuss the case by talking to SNAP.

If the diocese had issued such a release they probably would have been required to give a deposition on that question.

Just refuse on constitutional

Just refuse on constitutional grounds. Civil disobedience is necessary. More punishment of the victims by our system of injustice. Isaiah would be screaming at the top of his lungs, " Let justice rain down and drench the earth".

There are no constitutional

There are no constitutional grounds.

The Right to Remain Silent is

The Right to Remain Silent is a constitutional right. It was put in place because of the Church's history of torturing people in the Inquistion and forcing confessions out of them. This seems like the tactics of the Grand Inquistitor and a re-enactment of a horrifying chapter in church history. It seems to evil.

Yes, when being arrested.

Yes, when being arrested. Has Dave been arrested? (well, maybe not yet). The 5th amendment does not say that he doesn't have to testify; it says that he does not have to incriminate himself. So they only testimony he would not be compelled to give would be evidence of his own criminal activity. Which leads me to ask what he has to hide that he wants to avoid self-incrimination.

As to the subpena, yes he does not have to answer it at all. But then he has to willingly accept the consequence, which is going to jail until he does comply.

This should, of course, read

This should, of course, read "the alleged victim". Or does innocent until proven guilty no longer apply? Or, does it only no longer apply to Catholic priests?

well in our system of justice

well in our system of justice the burden of proof is on the accuuser or the satte not on the accused and a person is held innocent until proven guilty. Thats why.

If communication with support

If communication with support and recovery groups of any kind cannot be held confidential, can we really expect anyone to seek what he or she needs to get through the trauma of sexual assault and experience healing? I can only believe that this judge hasn't had or taken time to think through the dreadful ramifications of her order for deposition. Before most of us felt able to come forward and report the sexual assault we experienced as children, we needed find people who would hear us out without judgement, a safe place to disclose and work through some of the most difficult parts of our trauma, fears, and fractured lives. If SNAP and other support networks are unable to keep a commitment to confidentiality, not only will hurting victims be discouraged, intimidated, from coming forward, but many more children and vulnerable adults will be endangered, and countless survivors may actually not survive the long term impact of rape, sodomy and exploitation.

What is not to understand? David Clohessy has probably helped more men and women find a path to recovery from childhood sexual assault than any other person to date. He is truly love, compassion and empathy incarnate; he has been and continues to be an absolute savior and guide out of painful isolation, pain and darkness into the light of truth and hope.

Finally, if this order is upheld, leaders and advocates around the world will experience a frightening and dreadful fallout of accelerated distrust. Can we really afford this? I think not.

The question here is whether

The question here is whether SNAP is truly a "support and recovery group" for the victims of sexual abuse, or a front for trial lawyers.

No. The question here is why

No. The question here is why a church of God raped children by the thousands, lied about it, and is now fighting the victims. The Catholic church never, ever should have been in this position at all. Period.

Nooo, the question is whether

Nooo, the question is whether those who say they are interested in justice are willing to grant an accused priest the right to defend himself.

Absolutely. The accused have

Absolutely. The accused have rights and in the case of priests this is almost entirely forgotten.

No the question is whether

No the question is whether this despicable organisation can be allowed to continue its rape and torture of children.

There is more than one

There is more than one question here. The second question is are innocent and holy priests being slandered and their lives ruined in order for organizations like SNAP and their host of lawyers to get rich.

On another Catholic blog

On another Catholic blog Scott, the victim of sexual abuse by a priest , wrote this comment:

“There will be no true justice for victims until we move beyond the false notion that the Church and priesthood have been a special locus of sexual abuse, a myth that has benefited no one but personal injury lawyers and their enablers in SNAP and VOTF . . . It is time to turn off the TV cameras, send the lawyers packing, stop vilifying the new class of lepers we have created among the accused in our Church, and act like the Catholic Christians most of us strive to be.”

There is another principle

There is another principle involved that seems not to be commented on. If SNAP has helped news organizations and that has resulted in legal proceedings against a given priest, SNAP at that point is not simply a victims' rights or counseling group. It has become involved in a prosecution and as such correspondence and other records need to be shared with the defense who has a right to seek exonerating evidence.

I agree with the writer above that the pity in all this is that the entire sordid affair ends up in the legal system. The victims' lawyers seek to keep things stirred up to get as large a monetary judgment as possible, on the one hand, while individual defendants' and diocesan and religious order attorneys seek to keep everything under wraps. Joseph Chinnici's really excellent book, "When Values Collide" (Orbis 2010) shows the many dimensions of the process. Few come out whole, and far too often the abuse victim ends up victimized all the more.

That said, at least in my opinion, SNAP, for all the good it has done, has become an integral part of the mess as well as a force for accountability. Doesn't it have to be accountable as well? Will the record show it has been careful in what it's alleged? Has it avoided the spirit of vigilantism? I hope so, because it's work has been important. If not, it will deserve being taken down from the morally superior position it and the media have elevated it to. Including, is it possible?, by NCR.

Should perpetrators be held

Should perpetrators be held accountable?..absolutely. I have just finished reading Catholic Priests Falsely Accused: The Facts, The Fraud, The Stories (Kindle Edition) If you are truly interested in TRUTH it's a good read.

I wish SNAP went after public school teachers and Hollywood moguls with the same ferocity as Catholic priests. I wonder why they don't? After all they are all about JUSTICE and VICTIMS--right?

Further, USA Today (11/18/2011) Richard Wexler, director of the National Coalition for Child Protection Reform, cited that 75% of reports alleging child abuse are not substantiated upon investigation.

This is a ridiculous act on

This is a ridiculous act on the part of Fr. Tierney's attorneys to try and make Tierney look like a victim. When you can't defend your client on the charges made because they are innocent, then you have to go after the victim and anyone else to stall and paint them as persecuting their client. The amount of time, resources and money that is being spent not only by SNAP,but by our Missouri Court System that all of us pay for, is a crime in itself. These kind of dirty, nasty tactics by attorneys are what give the profession a bad taste in peoples minds. The victims, the Child Advocacy Groups and our First Amendment rights are being tested and I can only hope that the Supreme Court will put an end to this and stop wasting our time and money. SNAP has my support and I hope if they win this case that Tierney's attorneys have to pay restitution to them.

Actually I think this is more

Actually I think this is more a case of someone or group not following the court's order.

But on your statement that this is an attempt to make Tierney the victim: Doesn't the priest have the right under the US Constitution to defend himself to the full extent of his rights? We give murderers that protection. Why do we expect priests to just roll over and submit to whatever people accuse them of. And if they don't give up every right that all US citizens are afforded, then they are being cruel. Doesn't make sense.

I'm glad Tierney is fighting

I'm glad Tierney is fighting back. "Repressed memory?" What a crock. When one of my coleagues found himself accused, the canon lawyer told him he was simply cooked. Maybe in thirty years, the guy said, you might have a chance to defend yourself. And from the tone of this thread, those thirty years are still thirty years away.

Then why doesn't Tierney take

Then why doesn't Tierney take a lie detector test. I'll simplify it for you. Because it would detect that he was lying.

Not up to Tierney to prove

Not up to Tierney to prove his innocence, and to further advise the armchair attorneys, lie detector tests have no value as evidence in court.

But suppose they could be introduced as evidence, he took one, and it showed he is telling the truth? Is he innocent in your mind, or did he merely beat the test?

The question is rhetorical.

And how would you know

And how would you know that?

By the way, priests often take lie detector tests, and it's the accusers who often refuse to take the tests!

http://www.themediareport.com/jan2011/special-steier-declaration.htm

Asked whether Mesle’s

Asked whether Mesle’s allowing of certain SNAP documents to be read in private would protect victims, Hamilton said those revelations would still “send a really serious and sad message to victims that when they come forward…a judge may well read about the details of their abuse.”

**** But what about when SNAP requests that dioceses turn over chancery files because they might show whether a priest has been accused of sexual abuse, thereby exposing the names of victims who might have reported their abuse by a priest only to the chancery and do not want SNAP or other outside parties to know of their situation. But that's OK I guess because it allows SNAP's lawyers to troll for other victims.

Victims? Ha! What about the

Victims? Ha! What about the priests who have been stripped of the right to be publicly confronted by their accusers. If a 50+ year old man can't face his violator and remain anonymous while the opprobrium rains on the priest, then he doesn't deserve to be rewarded and the organization protecting him doesn't deserve any privilege. I for one say that it is about time that one priest and his team of lawyers are getting tough. Too many priests have been persecuted by SNAP.

Amazing how Catholic have

Amazing how Catholic have been so brainwashed so easily. You have completely lost track of the fact that so many children (10,000+ in the US alone) were raped by so many Catholic priests and were protected by so many other priests and bishops that knew and hid the pedophiles.

So let me connect the dots

So let me connect the dots here. Thousands of children have been sexually abused, so all priest have surrendered their constitutional rights to a fair trial and full defense.

Let's go further. Thousands of people are murdered every year. Does that mean accused killers no longer have a right to a fair trial and full defense? Or by insisting that the state prove its case, have we "completely lost track" of the suffering of murder victims?

In fact, what other crimes in your mind are so horrendous that we can chuck the Constitution out the window every time someone is accused of one? Because that's the road you're on.

I am sickened by this

I am sickened by this article. How dare a judge order names of victims from a private organization established to protect those who were abused. Once again the children of these hideous crimes are being abused all over again. How much does a victim have to endure to receive the justice they deserve?
Mesle should be ashamed! And David clohessy should stand proud and never turn over any emails or documents from the SNAP organization. Why doesn't the diocese turn over all the names of the pedophiles they keep on file?
When it comes to protecting our children the legal system falls very short. It is unconstitutional to be forced to provide this type of information. Victims need a place to go and share their stories without worrying about who may view their information at a later date. The survivors of these crimes are the true heros and must be given the respect and dignity they deserve. The whole Catholic Institution must be stopped. You do not need corrupt leaders to believe in God. This organization must be held accountable for all wrong doings and every leader should stand trail. The Catholic organization must be rebuild with the childrens safety in mind. There is no reason to violate these children again! Let SNAP do their job and the law should put Tierney where we all know he belongs: PRISON!!!! I don't know how the lawyers for Tierney or any leader protecting pedophiles sleep at night? They must not have children of their own, grandchildren, nieces, nephews or any other children in their lives. How sad for them.

Gee ... your opening two

Gee ... your opening two sentences sound like what I read from people defending the Catholic Church a decade or so ago. Who appointed SNAP chief judge and jury? How do we know that organization is clean? I have read a few things about them that made me stop and wonder. We have a whole judicial system to handle these situations. Let it handle them. Transparency is good, remember?
You are scary with your blanket statements-- "the whole Catholic Institution must be stopped" ... "ever leader should stand trial" ... "the law should put Tierney where we all know he belongs: PRISON!!!!" Wow ... you are exactly the type I want the judicial system to protect me from. The days of hanging people from a tree after "the good people" of the town decide the matter are over. And not without good reason!

And if Tierney is acquitted,

And if Tierney is acquitted, he would have every right to sue Frances S for what she said!

Even if Tierney can prove

Even if Tierney can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he never came within 10 feet of any kid, he will never be "acquitted" in the minds of so many people.

SNAP, abetted by a very compliant, unquestioning media, has done its job well of convincing large numbers of people that an accusation and a conviction are the same thing, constitutional rights to due process and burden of proof be damned.

In response to several

In response to several reports from individuals who were not seeking financial payments but felt they should let the Diocese know that Tierney had, in fact, engaged in abusive actions toward minors, albeit 40 years earlier, the Diocesan Review Board voted unanimously to remove Tierney from his clerical assignment. In response to the testimony to the Review Board from these credible sources, Tierney told the Board: “I haven’t done anything bad in a long time.”. The review board treated the statement as an admission. The report detailing this all can be found at http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/_docs/8-31-11_Report_of_Independent_Investig.... He may beat the "repressed memory" civil suits, but do not let that lead you to an absolute finding that he did no harm to young boys using his position as a priest to gain their trust. There is significant evidence to the contrary.

Tierney has already admitted

Tierney has already admitted to the Independent Review Board that he hasn't done anything wrong "in a long time." The review board unanimously took that admission "of sorts", together with the testimony of both a victim and the father of another victim from the early 1970s (acting with his son's approval) as fully sufficient evidence to ask that Tierney be removed from active ministry. The testimony of the victim to the Board came before the Ratigan mess and the victim clearly stated that he had no financial incentive, wasn't suing, hadn't repressed his memory and had indeed talked about it with family members in the past. The father who testified also had no financial incentive. The tesifying victim told the Review Board that he thought the Diocese ought to know that he found other victims' allegations to mesh with what he knew from his own encounter with Tierney. To its credit, the Diocese agreed that those allegations were very credible and that Tierney ought to be removed from active ministry. All of this is set out in the Graves Report which is easily accessible via the Diocese's web page or with a simple Google search. Please read it. Thus, while it is true that Tierney might be able to beat these filed civil lawsuits on statutes of limitation grounds (unless the SOL is extended because of a repressed memory) and he is certainly entitled to fight those lawsuits on that ground, it is quite another thing to say there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on Tierney's part. To the contrary, there is substantial evidence that he engaged in serious sexual improprieties with pre-teens and early teens in the early 1970s.

So he is guilty until proven

So he is guilty until proven innocent, but still guilty anyway.

Nice.

No, you are misreading the

No, you are misreading the argument.
I don't think Anonymous is saying he's doesn't have the right to defend himself in these civil actions on Statute of Limitations grounds, as he's doing.
However, that should not detract from his own admission made in a hearing before the Diocesan Review Board, a process Tierney liked when the Review Board had only half the story from a man who claims a repressed memory but didn't like when individuals with no repressed memories (they'd told family members years earlier) and no financial or other motivation other than to let the Diocese hear their stories of their encounters with Tierney. Their testimony was seen as extremely credible by a unanimous Board and quickly accepted by the Bishop, all as set out in detail in the Grave Report. Anonymous is right: you should read it.

I have no idea whether the civil litigant with the repressed memory is telling the truth, but his story is eerily similar to the one from the non-litigants the Board heard and which were the rationale for his dismissal from active ministry. Tierney has a right to challenge the notion of repressed memory and impose the statute of limitations in the civil courts. My guess is he likely will prevail on those grounds. The canon court is another matter. I'm having a hard time rooting for this Bishop, but my other guess is that if Tierney challenges that decision in the canon court(as he apparently wants to do), the Bishop wins on the testimony of the victims who came forward in May and the U.S. Bishops' commitment to no-tolerance, regardless of when the harm occurred.

What's sauce for the goose is

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Bravo for the judges in

Bravo for the judges in Kansas City! For too many years SNAP has had its way - ruining reputations, naming priests without any proof, actually encouraging "victims" that they dredge from the woodwork in order to get more and more money for their so-called attorneys' fees, the SNAP fees, and only heaven knows what the "victim" gets. Yes, open the treasure chests of those smug SNAP officials who are quick to make accusations, but when one of their own molests (Clohessy's brother) or one of their "experts" get slapped into prison for child pornography, SNAP wants them to be tapped on the knuckles and let life go on! Ha! Now let's see the dirty little secrets they are trying so desperately to hide! May the K C judges hold tight! The pressure will be tremendous. Let SNAP open their books for all to see and judge - as the dastardly SNAP group and its minions has done for all these years!

amen, brother;....i know some

amen, brother;....i know some falsely accused...do those falsely
accused ever get justice?...'recalled memories' after yrs??? ...i remember
in my clinical work clients told me they never "forgot" trauma!...do
some remember because of the $$$ available??? ...healing only comes from
forgiveness....does SNAP keep some victims victims?...and yes,if one does the crime
then they do the time;...i have done some prison work...; but i believe some
of SNAP's attempts have been unjust to some of those who are innocent...
i also believe in lie detectors tests for both accuser and accused....
and yes, i have done work in a mental health clinic and i have worked with
many who have suffered sexual abuse and yes, when working with them
the healing that took place came via the therapy of forgiveness, they
taught me much;....i worked with one case where after two yrs the victim
admitted they lied to "get back at someone"; that someone was released from two yrs in jail after the admission of the lie, but much damage to the one falsely accused took a huge toll, how does SNAP repair damage like that?....dncrowley

In my opinion and forty years

In my opinion and forty years of working clinically in this field exactly, helping those who have suffered sexual abuse-- which is a form of post-trauma distress syndrome-- is not accomplished by a gloss on "forgiveness" and "that's that."

Effective recovery from trauma is hard work, often takes years, and has many layers to it, much transference and counter-transference, much need for a team approach as the issues are not only psychological but also physical and also spiritual. Much suffering goes down, and too, hopeful and incremental transformations take place for a healing that will hold. NEVER getting over it all. But learning to live again. And well. That is the goal. Ideals of forgiveness are nice, but they are not the work face down in the blood and dirt, which comes first.

I'm puzzed that a therapist person gave detail re a situation of an alleged admission by a "victim", that caused an accused and 'found guilty' person to be released after two years in jail. I think it would be very easy were someone so inclined to search the internet for such a case and to pinpoint it, with names and places revealed exactly.

All are entitled to their personal musings and likes and dislikes about legal cases and the poor Church. But I wonder what the compelling reason is to be alluding to even one specific, let alone several, here in a public forum about any person any therapist has ever worked with, any person who trusted the therapist to hold their circumstances, details, and identifying events of their lives confidentially, and utterly.

Just really wondering.

ah, yes, i worked with many

ah, yes, i worked with many trauma cases, even my own!, no, forgiveness
is therapied in the on going process...i used an example of a lie that
had me look deeper in to quick accusations,...oh, anonymous one!!!..dncrowley

oh dn crowley! [returning

oh dn crowley! [returning your sarcasm to you] in my opinion, you are dead wrong to speak in public about anyone you worked with in confidentiality. Period. Your grasp of professional ethics is so poor it causes a serious question about whether you are what you say you are, for a person in the profession is far better trained about strict confidentiality.

So Clohessy is going to claim

So Clohessy is going to claim therapist/patient privilege? I don't think that's going to work.

You worked ONE case with a

You worked ONE case with a victim who lied. How many cases did you work where the perpetrator was never punished and the victim was telling the pure unadulterated truth? I bet it was far more than one.

I find it interesting that the same voices who constantly remind us the Church is made up of human beings and will make mistakes, are coming after SNAP with a vengeance demanding perfection. This judgment would send a huge statement to other advocacy and counseling groups, including many that carry a Catholic connection.

The filth spewing from the clerical abuse crisis just keeps on getting deeper and deeper and deeper.

i worked with many clients,

i worked with many clients, of both ends;...i used the one example that made
me ,at the beginning, look deeper into accusations during those years of work..and there were years......dncrowley

Your response is well placed

Your response is well placed Colkoch, the 'one case' person you are replying to above, seems in my opinion, baldly unaware for a supposed professionally trained therapist, re basic ethics of the therapeutic profession regarding confidentiality.

We dont discuss our previous or current cases in public. Ever. Not even to make a political point or to give a personal opinion. Our patients' confidentiality is to be held ad infinitum. And never to be used in an effort to bolster one's opinion in a public forum, or exploited in any other way.

By giving identifiable 'case information' about a patient who allegedly (according to the commenter) lied and another person allegedly sent to jail was released after two years in prison-- this identifying series of events and data could easily be googled and if true, could expose the names of all concerned.

That's not the gold standard re holding confidentiality of persons a properly trained therapist 'works' with. Ethics are higher than the law, and therapists have national organizations that enforce ethics and have a system of hearings and interventions for violations. Sometimes the state also enforces ethics as well as the law.

One of the issues of the article concerns just that, re confidentiality. Just my opinion, but in the first comment above from the 'one case' commenter who claims to be a therapist who speaks openly about their patient here, we can see how exposed a patient can become when the 'therapist' who is supposed to safeguard their confidences utterly, veers. Unfounded speculation re the the patient, in particular often makes for 'open season' on the patient, as well as other patients now seen as 'similar' in 'case and circumstance.' We will watch similar unfold in the priest court case if/as victims' confidentiality is broken, not to mention the fourth estate's.

I'd also add, that public knowledge of an event or occurrence regarding legal issues of a patient, in whichever light, does not dismiss a therapist from their ethical duty to retain all confidences-- unless clearly and irrevocably subpoena'd -- in which case, the confidentiality of the patient, their sudden exposure to opprobrium and ridicule, is often pled as reason to not release records, but rather only redacted records, which is an entirely different way of providing very limited information to the courts.

What reasonable persons would perceive as adequate information from SNAP for instance regarding this specific defense of this one priest, is different than a 'fishing expedition' into SNAP'S confidential files regarding all other of SNAP's clients...

the latter seeming wholesale invasion of records of SNAP would likely never pass a 'reasonable person' test legally... unless the court over-ruled unreasonably, perhaps being wrongly interested in supporting one side rather than just following the letter of the law, or because the court has an unspoken interest in outcome.

We believe deeply that our courts, that means specifically, our judges, the men and women both elected and appointed, would never corrupt a case for personal reasons of bias against either side.

In any case, we shall see.

While a legal arguement can

While a legal arguement can be made to force disclosure, such an arguement is unethical or immoral. That this argument is being presented in defense of the episcopacy of the Roman Church is just another example of the Bishops' moral bankruptcy. The bishops' public displays of meeting with victims belies the hierarchies backdoor campaign to restrict Statute of Limitation laws and restrict victims from recovering damages due to them because the bishops' decided to keep the crimes secret in obedience to Rome. The decisions to cover up the inital cases of abuse has caused thousands of more children to be sodomized. The bishops are not the victims. The bishops have victimized our children. Those who continue to support the hierarchy perpetuate the abuse and re-victimize those who have been abused. The bishops' lawyers are continuing the bishops' abuse of power. The bishops have no real shame. They cannot be completely honest about the scandal because they must be obedient to the Vatican. Remember the "Dallas Charter" had to have Vatican approval and even that very limited document said nothing about the coverups by all the bishops. The bishops have no believable moral authority except to the blind and ignorant.

I agree. "The bishops have

I agree. "The bishops have no believable moral authority except to the blind and ignorant."

As a cradle Catholic I have finally come to believe that the bishops have no believable moral or spiritual authority, in this world, or THE NEXT. I no longer believe that they are the bridge between the world, and the eternal Word of God. They have nothing to offer that will aid my transition from the temporal world to the eternal, but they had me fooled for 50 years. I guess I've becomes Protestant without ever formally denouncing the RCC. These bishops have power over a person ONLY if one allows them that power. The sense of my new found freedom feels good, really good!

And exactly what does this

And exactly what does this order have to do with "bishops"? This order was requested by the attorneys of a priest trying defend himself against charges he says are false. Does he not have the right to a vigorous defense?

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