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PDF versionThe YouTube video that sparked a necessary conversation
by Kate Childs Graham on Jan. 26, 2012
Unless you were under a computer-free rock these past few weeks, you've probably seen the YouTube video "Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus." With more than 16 million views, this video has stirred up quite the conversation on my Facebook feed. Many people, young people especially, resonate with the message of the video, featuring Jefferson Bethke of Mars Hill Church. His poem amplifies a common trend among today's youth, a trend that distrusts hierarchical institutions, a trend that says, "We're spiritual but not religious."
Many videos have been posted in response, but one in particular caught the eye of my Catholic friends, conservative and liberal alike. In this video, Fr. Claude Burns, aka Fr. Pontifex, sets out to prove that Jesus and the church can't be separated. He suggests that to do so fuels "atheistic opinions."
The artists are unanimous on this point: They love Jesus. But religion? Well, that they see differently.
Bethke says: "If religion is so great, why has it started so many wars?"
Burns replies: "See, what makes his religion great is not errors of wars and inquisitions. It's that broken men and women participate in his mission."
So, the whole religion-is-the-cause-of-most-wars argument is not new and is not false. Religion -- or, more accurately, religious people -- have fueled wars since, well, forever. Does that mean we should abandon ship?
That religion is flawed and broken reflects the brokenness of its people. Wars don't make religion great, people do. But religious people have too often used religion as an excuse to go to war. If these people would more often stand of the side of peace, that would make religion even greater.
Bethke says: "Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor?"
Burns replies: "And lines about building big churches and tending to the poor sounds a bit like Judas when the perfume was being poured. See, His religion is the largest worldwide source of relief for the poor, the hungry, the sick and repentant thief."
This is a tough one for me. My family and I just took a trip to Rome. We spent hours upon hours going from floor to floor of the Vatican museum, absolutely awestruck by the amazing art and architecture. On the other hand, though the Catholic church is the No. 1 service provider to the poor, there is so much, too much, to be done.
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Bethke says: "Religion might preach grace, but another thing they practice -- they tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John the Baptist. They can't fix their problems, so they try to mask it, not realizing that's just like spraying perfume on a casket."
Burns replies, "But blaming religion for contradiction is like staring at death, and blaming the hearse."
Honestly, this is why I remain Catholic -- the hope that underneath those layers of injustices and hypocrisies painted on by religious people, there is a church that believes that God is love and wants what is just for all of God's people, not just the chosen few.
Bethke says: "Don't you see He's so much better than just following some rules?"
Burns replies: "If I have the jersey and I'm playing for the Bulls, there's going to be some boundaries, regulations and some rules."
Oh, those rules. I agree that when religion is reduced to a set of rules, it loses both its appeal and its value. But for me, religion isn't about rules so much as it is about values shared among community. Those values sometimes breed guidelines in which to live our lives. Above all, I try to love God, love my neighbors and follow an informed conscience.
Bethke concludes: "Because when Jesus cried, 'It is finished,' I believe He meant it."
Burns ends: "I believe when Jesus said, 'It is finished,' His religion had just begun."
There are parts of each poem that I resonate with, and there are parts in each that make my stomach turn. Two things are clear: The overwhelming response to Bethke's video (it got almost 300,000 likes on YouTube and only 40,000 dislikes) proves that religion as it stands isn't serving the needs, feeding the souls of a bunch of people. And the dozens of response videos like Burns' shows that this is a conversation people are eager to have.
Let's discuss.
Interesting. Theologically
Interesting. Theologically Mars Hill is in the Puritan Calvinist tradition of wanting to "unchurchify" church. It is not in the New Age arc of wanting to be spiritual but not religious.
People are weary of church, churches and theology of any kind. It's all been talked to death.
Of course Jesus and the
Of course Jesus and the Church can not be separated, but Jesus is referring to the Spiritual Church in Mat 21, not the Roman Rite or a particular denomination. Bethke is merely trying to separate the spiritual church from the institutional church, so he picks on the word "religion" to prove his point. I may not agree with his comments but I think that's all it is.
If Bethke and Burns really want to build a bridge to the truth, they need to start leading people to Christ.
Andrew K.
well- I suggest you read
well- I suggest you read vatican II Lunem Gentium par.8:
Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)
This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as "the pillar and mainstay of the truth".(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*)
You might alo be interested in the Councils Decree on Ecumenism par 3:
Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life-that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God.
I appreciate your reference
I appreciate your reference to Vatican II but this is where I disagree. When Christ handed over his life on the cross and said it is finished, incidentally I agree with Fr. Burns, at that moment the truth of the resurrection and the ministry of the church was revealed to all men. However, the Church that Christ calls the Bride and He the Bridegroom are the body of “true believers”, not a physical church. Jesus knows His believers and they know Him. Recall the insurgent on the cross who said we deserve to die but this Man is innocent. Jesus told him “today, you will be with me in heaven”. He was not baptized, he did not receive last rites, but he received the grace of salvation. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Peter assumed the head of the church. Peter himself never refers to himself as the head. Paul who writes about the early Church never once refers to Peter as the head. This is a belief the Vatican constructed. It was Peter’s testimony as to the divinity of Christ that was the “Rock”. Christ is the “Rock” not Peter. Peter fell on his face before the Lord and humbled himself.
So, getting back to the discussion about “religion”, I don’t completely agree with Bethke’s misuse of the word religion, I feel he should use the word “religiosity” instead, but I think he correctly makes a distinction between what draws people to the Lord in a sincere and contrite manner and the barriers that exist to a genuine relationship with Christ particularly when rules and structures become hurdles.
I am a Catholic and even I know that Christ’s spiritual church transcends all that is earthly. Hebrews 11:6 says He rewards those who sincerely seek Him. Seeking Him is not a conversion to Roman Catholicism, seeking Him is a conversion of a heart. It is on this fact that I believe Bethke is more direct and sincere and Fr. Burns is lost in structure and ritual.
Andrew K.
Well, Peter appears to have
Well, Peter appears to have been the first one to get it in so far as Christ's divine nature. It is fairly easy to see why he would be considered a source of consultation as a leader for his contemporary fellow believers after Christ's time as a man on earth.
Jefferson Bethke seems
Jefferson Bethke seems authentic to me. There is something that is more real in this young man's eyes and presence. Fr. Claude Burns repeats the old words he was taught in the seminary. They do not seem true or relevant. Easy to find the real follower of Christ here.
A word of caution. It is for
A word of caution. It is for God to make such determinations. Man judges by what he sees, but God sees what man is not able to see.
Charity above all.
My child left. She married a
My child left. She married a Catholic young man who had also left - he was raised in Catholic schools by a mom and dad heavily involved in the Church. My daughter and her husband belong to a Protestant denomination and they go to church regularly and participate in church life. His sister left too.
I asked if they would consider reexamining it, but they say "no." It has to do with the rigidity of the Church on such things as birth control and gay marriage, with lack of respect for and lack of position of women in the Church. With the lack of accountability the Church is willing to take for the sex abuse scandal - especially the refusal to hold bishops accountable. They laugh about the dress of priests and higher ups. And, they don't want to call the priest "Father" - they feel they have grown up and don't want to be the Father's children. The see an institution so mired in its past it doesn't know how to go forward.
They like how the ministers of their churches are accountable to the people of the church, both in being effective as ministers and as administrators. They have a sense that they matter in making their churches better communities and better churches. They talked one time about how important it is that their church accepted gay marriage because it was willing to listen to the people of the church - that the sense of the faithful was spirit filled and respected.
They believe - they just don't believe in the Catholic Church any more.
I admit, being in my sixties, I have my problems with the Church, too. There are days when I think the children are right. There are no longer days I think they are wrong. I think we can choose differently and be of God. Not very "Catholic", is it? But then I say a Hail Mary and think I am where I need to be - for now.
I loved reading your
I loved reading your comments. I may not agree with some of your child's motives for leaving. For instance, I firmly believe same sex unions are an abomination before God, and frankly I'm surprised that would be a reason for them leaving. However, it is evident that the church leadership has shirked it's responsibility and has embarrased themselves to the point of near total collapse. I don't think we realize just how bad it is within the corporate church. It has caused many to doubt their authority and legitimacy. It has for me.
When you start asking
When you start asking questions like these I think one good place to start is to ask yourself "Do I believe the sacraments are a real sign of God's grace and do I believe in the real presence of Christ, body, soul, and divinity, in the Eucharist? Do I believe the Mass is a real sacrifice that I become a part of?" I think these are the important questions. If you can answer these then all the other ones like what the priest is wearing or what hymnal is being used will go away fairly quickly.
Anonymous, thank-you, as you
Anonymous, thank-you, as you state the most important reason why I remain a Catholic. I hope that there are many who are quick to tell me or others who have some disagreement with the structure or teachings of the Church to leave will take the time to think about what you have said. And if they cannot fully agree, than, at least, perhaps they may be able to have some understanding as to how, for others, this is a very sound reason for remaining Catholic.
Yours in Christ,
John David
The above comment embodies
The above comment embodies what is largely the crux of the matter for a Catholic or one considering Catholicism.
Hollowness of what Burns the
Hollowness of what Burns the priest says because the RC Church will not give communion to remarried divorced Catholics (who do not pay the RC Church for an annulment.) The Church cares about the unborn but not about the born baby and the single mom. It places all its resources into anti-abortion but not for the unaborted children and struggling moms. Bethke makes really good points in his video about religion churches hypocrisy. Good work, Bethke. Bethke's love of Jesus Christ and the real true meaning of religion and faith shines through clearly.
Your comment is exceedingly
Your comment is exceedingly broad. Catholic Charities and the many social service arms of the Church address the needs of single parents and the poor. Many children attend Catholic schools with the help of scholarships. The church is directly involved in the operations of thousands of shelters and food pantries. While some individuals are pro-life, but do not care for the lives of the poor, this is not the case for the church as a whole.
In the SF East Bay, there are
In the SF East Bay, there are only 6 (SIX)! references to pro-life crisis services. These ads happen to be on benches at bus stops and 1 by a Catholic Church. The monies that are spend by pro-lifers every year to march to San Francisco and stick its tongue out at the 'heathens' 'sodomites' etc; that live here as they put it, could have been FAR better spent rolling up their sleeves to make sure that every Catholic church and other religious organizations that are pro-life put up ads on every high school, college, religious building stating that they are here available to help. This has never been done so it leads me to think that these marches are for ego boosting- did St. Vincent de Paul march in Frances denouncing the rich? No he got up and got others to help the poor in need, so too should pro-lifers and be visible about it!
I am equally disturbed about this trend in the Catholic church ever since Vatican II to want to become part of some theocracy in the United States, when it has never wanted to make the U.S. be a theocracy before. The issue about abortion and the choice between the 'unborn' and what really gets down to it 'forced pregnancy as slavery' for women is going to soon be the next abolitionist movement and battle of this century. The vanguard for pro-choice is going to HAVE to be led by those who can remember when abortion was illegal since the young have taken this right for granted and have gotten lax.
Another major failing of RC
Another major failing of RC Church is its disrespect for Jesus and for women and children, and ordinary men. The RC institution abuses thousands of children and women and the married. It refuses to be like Jesus because it will not ordain women or the married men when Jesus made Apostles of women too ( Apostles Mary Magdalene, Junia, Samaritan woman, all highly praised by Jesus or Paul) and had married men too like Peter as Apostles. Jesus never condemned homosexuals either.
..And which part of the bible
..And which part of the bible and Church Teaching that affirms this?!
Religion is an expression of
Religion is an expression of belief, just like a hammer is an expression of human ingenuity. It therefore cannot of itself be bad or good. It can only take on the morality it is given by those wielding it. A hammer can be used to build a wonderous home, or it can crush your neighbour's skull.
The other problem with religion, as identified by Walter Wink, is that like any form of social organism it can take on a life of its own. This makes it incredibly difficult to keep it in check when it becomes harmful.
I'd sumamrize the tension between religion and the way of Jesus thusly: religion invites you to sacrifice for God, Jesus reminds you that God sacrifices for you.
Thank you,Andrew K.Yours was
Thank you,Andrew K.Yours was the most Biblically astute response as to what comprises the true church that I have ever read on this site!In my estimation you should be put in charge of all Vatican attempts at ecumenical endeavours;your wisdom is too valuable to squander!Sadly people like Gerard remain mired in the muddy quasi-theological constructs of"Christendom"from which'roman'Catholicism arose;your words exemplify what true Catholicism in its original state is and should be:centered and grounded In Christ,the true and only Head of the True Church.There are no"isms and schisms"advocated in Scripture,Gerard,and the only thing the"separated brethren"are separated from is the arrogant hubris and ridiculous preening of the so-called"Roman Chatholic Church",a man-centered,spiritually empty edifice long past having any useful relevance.Trust me,Gerard:The Word of God carries far more weight than any papal encyclical I've ever read!
I appreciate your comments,
I appreciate your comments, but I don't deserve them. Hang in there Ringo!
Andrew K
I'm not RC. However, I am a
I'm not RC. However, I am a minister in an Evangelical Protestant denomination. Truth be told, the claims made here against the RC Church and its leadership are also being used against the hierarchy (or pastor) of many Protestant churches. I know this, as I too have been accused of these things.
IMHO, many of those who accuse a church of failing to be "the church," leave to join another fellowship that is engaged in counteracting a particular ill. However, the person leaving often does not participate in that ministry in their new church. By transferring, the transferee's own lack of contribution is masked by the work of others. This holds true irrespective of if the person is leaving for issues that are liberal or conservative.
I usually ask a person wanting to leave because of a perceived lack of some ministry/view/outreach, why they didn't begin such a ministry/outreach/etc themselves. I have yet to get anything other than an excuse or averted eyes.
While it is easy to blame the "impersonal monolith" that is the church or some "inept clergy" for the failings of the church, maybe the more accurate view is contained in a simple truism my mother often said to me, "when you point at others, three fingers always point back to you."
My charge: if you feel it is unjust, wrong, lacking, RESPOND & GET IT DONE. You don't have to wait for others. If you see a wrong and don't do anything about it, you are as guilty as the oppressor and blackened by sin.
Blessings.
Oh Please! I got the feeling
Oh Please! I got the feeling some of you comment writers just want to say, "I want to leave The Church but feel a bit religious". Which part of faith that some of you do not understand the meaning "hypocrisy"?
It is not pacifists who line-up in front of a marching Muslim army during the crusades, shouting, "make peace not war"!
It is not homosexuals and abortionist who martyred for their faith in front of pagan barbarians or Muslim footmen during the crusade.
When will Catholics realize that when the Lord finally comes, He's also coming as a Judge?
"Anonymous," I hope, on that
"Anonymous," I hope, on that Day, to be standing behind someone so virtuous as yourself, for cover.
Neither Bethke nor Burns
Neither Bethke nor Burns convince me of anything.
Unfortunately K8, in this
Unfortunately K8, in this case the MEDIUM is not the message!
These two are merely joining the KREWE of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1oV2fbseU
And are almost as BANAL, only much less entertaining!
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