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It was a 'face-up-to-the-life-you-have-just-inherited' speech
by Joan Chittister on May. 18, 2009
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Printer-friendly versionSend to friendPDF versionYes, I know, I know. At least according to the media and the anti-abortion movement, President Obama's presence at Notre Dame University in South Bend, Indiana as graduation speaker and recipient of an honorary degree, was all about abortion. Except that it wasn't.
The speech was not about abortion at all. It was about lots of Catholic things -- if Catholics will only remember them -- but it was not about the morality or ultimate moral meaning of abortion at all. It was, in fact, more about the model of a Jesus who could talk to Roman soldiers and Samaritan women, to Pharisees and to adulterers with respect and with care. It was a recall of the Jesus who refused to condemn either the Roman emperor or his soldiers. It was also a call, at least indirectly, to the next generation to "put down their swords," to stop calling their opposite numbers -- those who seek to make abortion unnecessary than to criminalize it -- "murderers" and to listen to one another.
No small graduation speech.
Obama identified this year's Notre Dame graduates with a generation that must negotiate a global panoply of differences, a crossroads in time in need of lighthouses of faith to enable all of us to find our way.
Essential to the process, Obama insisted, was the willingness not to demonize those who hold faith-based positions different from ours, to realize their own sincerity, to take their positions as seriously as our own.
The speech was a breath of fresh air after living through an administration that fed on -- thrived on -- enemies and hate, that practiced ruthless partisanship in a pluralistic society, that chose party politics over the common needs of the country, that talked about "new crusades" and "terrorists" rather than attempt to relate to the needs and frustrations and ideals of peoples from whom such violence emerged, that chose ill-designed wars over the alliances necessary to marginalize such extremists even from their own.
Obama's speech was, in fact, far more than the standard-brand graduation rhetoric. It didn't extol aphorisms or meander down the Brady Bunch memory lane. It was not a feel-good speech. It was a "face-up-to-the-life-you-have-just-inherited" speech.
It was a call not only to this year's graduates but to all of those who have preceded them intent more on winning than on working things out.
It was a call to adults to stop acting like sophomores in the name of faith. It was a cry to those on both sides of every issue to refuse to suppress complexity in a global, interfaith world. It was an attempt to move beyond force, beyond the denunciation of those who are just as committed to resolving problems as we are without making outlaws of those for whom the issue cannot wait for long-term answers.
It was, most of all, a very Catholic speech.
It deals with issues that have been a Catholic agenda for over 100 years of social justice encyclicals.
Obama asked graduates to see themselves as responsible for the global good as well as for their own success. He challenged them to go beyond the commitment to personal advantage to global good. He taught them that the zero-sum game, the notion that for me to win everyone else must lose, only means that everyone else will lose, and I, too, eventually. How can anyone in that audience who just went through an economic meltdown driven by greed which eventually brought the entire country down, doubt the value of those words, of that kind of commitment to a pro-life agenda.
He asked them, as an article of faith, to recognize the value of self-doubt that leads us to forego our own self-righteousness and inspires us to learn to listen to the wisdom of those around us.
He called them not to revel in the grandeur of their degrees from an isolated perspective but to remain open to the rest of the world. He called them to live their ideals but to resist the attempt to force them onto others.
He taught them to gain their hope from what has already been done in the past, what we as a people have already worked through and achieved, already overcome as a people together like the oppression of a king, the disregard for civil rights, the exploitation of laborers, the enslavement of a people, the struggle for animal rights, the recognition of women's equality, the movement beyond racism. It was, indeed, a very Catholic speech.
From where I stand, the struggle at Notre Dame to maintain a civil dialogue despite a difference in faith perspectives was another step in Catholic growth. We spoke clearly for the sacredness of life, yes, but we were also called not to leave any part of life out of our search for its sacredness.
Seventy out of 450 bishops criticized the presence of President Obama at a Notre Dame graduation and they denied the value of it. But the President did not. Instead, he modeled his own commitment to engage the country in common cause rather than divide it into mutually disrespectful camps. In the process, he may well have taught every bit as much about the gospel and total respect for life as the bishops did. For the sake of the growth and impact of the church, I hope so.
I do believe we are to pray
I do believe we are to pray for those in authority over us and to love our enimies and pray for those that despitefully use us...but I fear that we will become homoginized politically correct quasi-christians IF we do not allow prayer and the Holy Spirit to guide us in ALL matters. Maybe tolerance of others beliefs has become a religion in itself. Maybe it is easier to be tolerant than to be compassionate and witness by our lives that there is one way to heaven and that is through the Son Jesus Christ.C
Dear Mrs. Dale, I am
Dear Mrs. Dale,
I am reminded of the passage in Matthew that goes "Judge NOT lest ye be judged,for by the same measure you use to measure others, you ALSO shall be measured". I agree that we need to allow prayer and the Holy Spirit guide us in all that we do, but he reserves JUDGEMENT to HIMSELF, I am in no place to judge anyone else, but it seems that by sitting down and dialogue with those we disagree with in respect and calm, then we can find things that we agree on and we can build on that. Jesus sat and ate and dialogued with any and all who came to him with open ears, hearts and minds. Can we be called to do any less?
First, let me state that I am
First, let me state that I am glad ND allowed President Obama to speak. All of our Presidents in recent memory have had huge moral shortcomings. Still, they deserve our respect.
That said, President Obama's call to discuss without agitation the greatest moral outrage of our time is most disingenuous. Abortion is functionally legal through nine months of pregnancy up to the moment of birth. He supports this position. He's getting his way on the issue by judicial fiat. His call for compromise and understanding is empty.
It's time that those of us who desire economic and social justice STOP letting people who hold this position off the hook. If we can't speak up up for the unborn, we will fail to defend the dignity of work and press for adequate health care for all.
The Pope just called people
The Pope just called people to evangelize through the internet employing a method that, I quote his words: "promotes a culture of respect, dialogue and authentic friendship where the values of truth, harmony and understanding can flourish."
And again his words:
"I am inviting all those who make use of the new technologies of communication, especially the young, to utilize them in a positive way and to realize the great potential of these means to build up bonds of friendship and solidarity that can contribute to a better world.
This is not a call to go back to Trent's entrenched mentality, but a call for dialogue (you can only dialogue with people who doesn't agree 100% with you), just like what Obama called for in ND.
The pope needs to devote the
The pope needs to devote the rest of his life to reforming the priesthood. That would be far more productive and credible than investigating women religious in the USA.
I think the Church is going
I think the Church is going after the nuns because the priests can't take the heat any longer. The Church knows the priesthood has much to correct and change so it is shifting to a group of dedicated women who have truly done God's work in the fields of healthcare, education, social needs, and the list goes on. All this while, the priests stayed in their rectories, writing homilies on good behavior, all the while letting the Sisters carry on the real mission of the Church....to go out into the world and witness to the works of Jesus. Wonder what collections will be made to pay for the legal fees of any Sister in need. Sunday collections have gone down because the dear Bishops are using the funds to pay for the legal fees for priests whose behabvior is not in keeping with what they preach. No wonder Catholic churches are being closed and Catholic school parents have to work twice as hard to send thier kids to a Catholic school. Such a male dominated hierarchy in the Church! When will they ever learn?!?!?
The Church is investigating
The Church is investigating the LCWR because it seems that they have gone beyond faith in Jesus Christ to muddy waters of neo-paganism, new age religion, and a rejection of the ideals of religious life.
There are many heroic priests, in the past and today, who give their lives in service to their people, just as many sisters do.
Get over the soundbites and the bashing of all priests.
Fred, YOU should get over the
Fred,
YOU should get over the "sound bites and bashing" of women religious and the LCWR. Until you can provide specific and credible evidence to back the claim that the LCWR embraces "neo-paganism, new age religion" you're just coming off as yet another knee-jerk apologist desperately clinging to a model of Church that hasn't existed in reality for centuries, if it ever did. News flash: just because 95% of the religious orders in this country don't share your arcane definition of vowed life doesn't mean they have rejected "the ideals of religious life." Oh, and P.S., don't bother tossing out the old "I heard there are nuns who walk mazes like pagans" silliness, unless you've got suspicions about Chartres Cathedral and other old churches with labyrinths, that is. Guess what? While you're moaning, women religious are out there feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, counseling the prisoner, healing the sick, bearing witness every day to the Good News. You might consider spending a day in the company of these so-called new-age whackos before you decide they aren't doing Christ's work.
Conduct a literature search
Conduct a literature search and you will find ample evidence. Here is just one example
From Sister Schneiders' book Beyond Patching: Faith and Feminism in the Catholic Church
(Mahwah, NJ, Paulist Press, 1991, page 110.):
"When the first Women's Ordination Conference met in Detroit in 1975, the women who attended were focused on the admission of women to orders.Since 1978, women have come to realize that we are not talking about how to organize the institution. We are talking about whether the God of Judeo-Christian revelation is true God or just men-writ-large to legitimate their domination; whether Jesus, an historical male, is or can be messiah and saviour for those who are not male; whether what the church has called sacraments are really encounters with Christ, or tools of male ritual abuse of women; whether what we have called church is a community of salvation or simply a male power structure."
This deluded sister is talking about the mystical body of Christ as a male power structure? and the sacraments as "tools of male ritual abuse"Just one example of why the Church needs to look into some religious and some orders.
Faithful nuns and Catholic laity have no need for fear but should be reassured Throughout history the Church has had to conduct a bit of housekeeping and re-evaluation. Teresa of Avila had to shake up the Spanish carmelites and I am hopeful a great Jesuit will emerge to bring that once great order back to the true charism of the great Ignatius.
Beautifully said!
Beautifully said!
"Lord, do not hold this sin
"Lord, do not hold this sin against them" (Acts 7:59-60)
"Seventy out of 450 bishops criticized the presence of President Obama at a Notre Dame graduation and they denied the value of it."
I wonder what these 70 "EYE FOR AN EYE; TOOTH FOR A TOOTH" members of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in America would preach about the Martyrdom of St.Stephen.
I wonder what these 70 "EYE FOR AN EYE; TOOTH FOR A TOOTH" Bishops would have done to SAUL too - "STONED him"?
Acts 7:59-60 -
As they (Saul was among them) were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Then he fell to his knees and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them"; and when he said this, he fell asleep.
All of us should take to
All of us should take to heart the message that President Barack Obama gave at the University of Notre Dame on Sunday.
Civility, dialogue and respect for the individual, no matter whether his or her opinion mirrors mine will go far "to engage the country in common cause rather than divide it into mutually disrespectful camps. In the process, he may well have taught every bit as much about the gospel and total respect for life as the bishops did. For the sake of the growth and impact of the church, I hope so."
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish SNDdeN
Perhaps the 70 bishops
Perhaps the 70 bishops should've listened to President Obama's speech before criticizing him...the bishops do not exhibit any depth of wisdom with kneejerk reactions to Obama, Reiki, Catholic politicians, women....well, any topic!!
Right on Rachel! When are
Right on Rachel! When are they going to start to do some real thinking and for that matter. take the time to study! Instead they listen to some TA that tells them what they want to hear! Good girl, Rachel!
I am a lifelong Catholic and
I am a lifelong Catholic and as a first time visitor to this site, I was amazed at the vitriol expressed in the comments on Joan Chittister's article. The Church has clearly taught that abortion is a moral evil and a fundamental violation of the right to life. That the Bishops teach this doctrine and expect all Catholics to support it should be no surprise. The surprise is that a so called Catholic University has no respect for the guidance of the Church. When the oratory of a secular leader who does not even attend church becomes a substitute for the truth of the Catholic faith, I fear that many so-called Catholics have succumbed to false gods. Don't be fooled by what people say...look at what they do. This man is now taking money I earned and using it to support abortions in the U.S. and abroad. Of course the Church should care for the poor (and it always has), but the poor at least have had a shot at life. The unborn who are cut to pieces in the womb have never had a chance. Once "life" is a negotiable issue, don't be surprised if the poor and oppressed begin to disappear. And it won't be the fault of the Bishops.
Wow...that was well put! God
Wow...that was well put! God keep you!
shane
Right on! I certainly do
Right on! I certainly do hope that someone recorded the speech and gave those bishops the opportunity to listen to it. Obama was saying all that they should be saying, not just with words, but with their actions!
It is amazing to me how
It is amazing to me how paritally pro-life our bishops are at this time. When have they come out against inequality in society? It appears to me that Pro-Life people are NOT PRO LIFE they are anti-abortion. What about the other life issues, aren't they important? I agree with you Joan about Pres. Obama's speech at Notre Dame.
Yes, unfortunately, for many
Yes, unfortunately, for many pro-life seems to end at birth.
THE LAZY DOZEN "Spectator"
THE LAZY DOZEN
"Spectator" Cardinal Justin Rigali - Philadelphia, PA;
Chairman, USCCB Pro-Life Committee has to take most of the balme for the lopsided definition of PROLIFE within USCCB.
He prefers to sit and "WATCH THINGS" happen, rather than "MAKE THINGS" happen.
He seems to enjoy "fancy titles" rather than do what that title demands.
He has shown ZERO INITIATIVE in helping wipe out CAPITAL PUNISHMENT in the BIBLE BELT of AMERICA.
He has yet to help any of his "ELEVEN OTHER LAZY SPECTATOR COLLEAGUES LIKE HIM" in Louisiana, Florida and Texas to address the issue of Capital Punishment that (in spite of the numerous teachings by the USCCB) has been totally ignored by these "ELEVEN LAZY" Bishops in the BIBLE BELT:
1. Archbishop Alfred Hughes - New Orleans, LA
2. Bishop Glen Provost - Lake Charles, LA
3. Bishop Sam Jacobs - Houma-Thibodaux, LA
4. Archbishop José Gomez - San Antonio, TX
5. Bishop Emeritus John Yanta - Amarillo, TX
6. Bishop Gregory Aymond - Austin, TX
7. Bishop Reymundo Pena - Brownsville, TX
8. Bishop Robert Lynch - St. Petersburg, FL
9. Bishop Thomas Wenski - Orlando, FL
10. Bishop Gerald Barbarito - Palm Beach, FL
11. Bishop Frank J. Dewane – Venice, FL
Cardinal Justin Rigali,
It is high time you quit your post, instead of sitting there doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.
This is not the only area of
This is not the only area of concern that I have about Cardinal Rigali. I live in the Archdiocee of Philadelphia and he actually wrote a letter to all of us after the grand jury report of the sex abuse scandal came out back in 2005. He actually told us NOT TO READ the report. Things were so bad in my archdiocese that they had to convene a grand jury and then when there was finally some real accountability for the Cardinal and his predecessors he tells us in a letter NOT TO READ it and then tries to discredit it. I read it and I am appalled at his behaviour and that of his predecessors. (go to www.bishopaccountability.org and click on the state of PA for the full grand jury report and a copy of the letter). They are trying to say they followed the "best advice of medical doctors years ago"....whatever happened to reading God's word and following the WORDS and EXAMPLE of Jesus?
In what seemed like a
In what seemed like a freudian slip, not that many months ago, in the petitions at Mass (St Helen's, Westfield NJ), the speaker asked us to "pray for all human life, from conception to natural birth". I asked my wife if I'd heard correctly. Indeed that was what the speaker said, and was totally unphased, leading me to believe it was a real slip-up.
But, how telling.
President Obama at the Notre
President Obama at the Notre Dame graduation gave a very Christian speech. I wish to thank the 380 bishops who supported his presence at the Notre Dame graduation - how very Benedictine.
Seventy out of 450 bishops
Seventy out of 450 bishops seem to have been the "LOSERS".
Even Jesus had one among his twelve (JUDAS) to betray him.
By that ratio (1 in 12), 37 bishops would have been the expected number of "betrayers".
70 is NOT too high a number, considering the "ROTTEN POOL" from which these Bishops were selected.
Most of them do not even learn "good habits" from their colleagues, like Archbishop Dolan who posts his homilies online:
http://www.archmil.org/bishops/Audio_Bishops.asp
The others (except Archbishop Dolan) seem to "care a damn", because of their "JOB SECURITY", and they have NO EVALUATION at all as to their Job Performance.
They have "thrived" too long on "lack of accountabilty" and are a "lazy and mediocre" bunch, noted for their lack of "EXCELLENCE".
The majority of these "LOSERS" will retire or go to their graves before they can even "FIGURE OUT" how to post their own "ROTTEN HOMILIES" online.
Honour thy father and
Honour thy father and mother.
This posting is so disrespectful in tone and language and it is harshly judgmental.
I see little sense in Sister Joan's writings but I give her the repect due to her calling as a religious and God will judge her as he will judge all of us in the end.
Fortunately God will be both just and merciful.
I have grown all to weary of
I have grown all to weary of my church shooting itself in the foot and not looking like followers of Christ at all. From the mishandling of the sex abuse scandal to putting abortion over all other issues and everything in between. I am ever so happy that Fr. Jenkins had the wisdom and courage to invite our president and that our president had the wisdom and courage to accept. Thank you Joan for your eloquent essay. Thank you Jesus for your light in the darkness.
Thank you, Joan, for your
Thank you, Joan, for your excellent summary/interpretation of the President's speech. Once again, you are right on target.
I, too, thought Obama did a
I, too, thought Obama did a great job of calling the bluff of those who use the Catholic label for their own ends. Kudos to him and to Notre Dame for not backing away from the invitation to speak.
thank you very much Sister
thank you very much Sister Chittister, for unfolding so eloquently this speech and these issues.
If only all of the anglo-speaking American people could read your strong column.
If only they would read the speech, in its entirety
thank you
One of the key problems with
One of the key problems with the single issue, hard-core "pro-lifers" is their infantile tendency to judge whole persons on the basis of their stance on the abortion issue. They judge President Obama as being "all bad" because he is pro-choice and view him as being nearly unredeemable (unless he changes his mind and agrees with them 100% on the abortion issue); on the other hand, they tended to judge George W. Bush as being "all good" because he is anti-abortion and, so, they were for the most part silent and in some cases supportive as he launched and lied about his unjust war of agression against Iraq, set up concentration camps in Guantanamo and elsewhere, and illegally wire-tapped American citizens, among other outrages.
What would you say if he
What would you say if he cured poverty but was a slave holder? What if he did good things but rid the country of all limits on torture, funded organizations that offered torture, and sent American money to other countries for use in torture?
Since when was it determined
Since when was it determined that this issue was soley an anti-abortion issue? This controversy is a Catholic Principles issue. I really detest it when you use statistics. Here's one, 12 Apostles = 1 at the Holy Sacrifice of the Cross. Hardly a "majority rules moment... Happy Easter! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Thank you, Joan. Excellent
Thank you, Joan. Excellent analysis.
It is so easy to see why the
It is so easy to see why the many women who post here find in Sr. Joan their inspiration and their hope. She injects optimism into their pessimism. She challenges the patriarchy under which they believe they suffer, countering it with the vision of an all-healing matriarchy. She points them to the light at the end of their cloacal tunnel. And more. Much, much more. I don't always agree with her FWIS (= From Where I S**t), but I have to respect her ability to life so many of her female readers up from the depths of their depression. Saying that, however, I sincerely hope those same female readers, once uplifted, turn to other sources as well in their pursuit of Catholic Truth.
I could not pass up the
I could not pass up the opportunity to comment on yours Anonymous. I am a female, but do not read Sr. Joan's articles because I am a female, nor because I am pessimistic and need optimism. I don't read any articles because of the sex I was born as, or for that matter read only things written by women, or just by Sr. Joan. I am wondering why you would think so?
It is always fascinating that some readers project their reasoning onto others, which is an unfair reading of the character of others. Could it be that you are a male and only read what males write?
I believe that the women who find they are inspired by Sr, Joan believe that Sr. Joan is inspired by the Holy Spirit. So, our hope is not in Sr. Joan, but in the expression of the Holy Spirit with Sr. Joan as the instrument to communicating the Holy Spirit.
"She challenges the patricrchy under which they believe they suffer, countering it with a vision of an all-healing matriarchy." I believe that men need to be challenged more so now than ever. I don't think that your statement is true or accurate, and it is once again your projecting your view, which is not the truth. The truth is that males suffer under a patriarchy as much as the women do. One will never know what they are missing if they are always denying the need for anything other than reliance upon themselves and solely from their own kind.
As for "She points them to the light at the end of their cloacal tunnel" I had to look up what "cloacal" meant. Here is the definition of the word: "a common cavity at the end of the digestive tract for the release of both excretory and genital products in vertebrates (except most mammals) and certain invertebrates. Specifically, the cloaca is present in birds, reptiles, amphibians, most fish, and monotremes.
• archaic a sewer."
Perhaps your head was in some Big Bird's cloacal tunnel from Sesame Street when you wrote your comment, sir.
Get a grip on yourself,
Get a grip on yourself, Butterfly. It may sound to you like inspiration from the Holy Spirit, but it may be only the eruption of wind from another source. Satan is wily--and highly skilled at ensnaring those placing too much faith in their own powers for discerning Truth.
Dear Joan, Thank you so much
Dear Joan,
Thank you so much for bringing light rather than heat to the discussion leading up to and following President Obama's Notre Dame address. Making enemies of those with whom we disagree further entrenches all of us. Your statement about not leaving any part of life out of our search for its sacredness puts the issue right where it belongs. I wonder why both sides of the abortion debate can't at least work together to help people avoid unwanted pregnancies rather than arguing about who is right and who will win. Brava!
This is absolutely one of
This is absolutely one of your best, and most of them are very good. Now I will go listen to the speech.
And the answer I gave was correct. I imagine you don't get a lot of your valid comments. I don't think I'll bother again.
Thanks for the words of
Thanks for the words of balance in this dialogue, for the ability to hold the tension between too right and too left. Thank you Mr. President for your willingness to place yourself into the Frey. Let these times be occasions for the transformation of our pain and not a time to transmit our pain. Liam
Any person of faith ultimatly
Any person of faith ultimatly confronts the question: Why do so many good, sincere, honest, prayer people come to so many different conclusions? Those who don't reconize the value of this question, do great damage to the world.
Sister ends her fine article
Sister ends her fine article by saying, "In the process, he may well have taught every bit as much about the gospel and total respect for life as the bishops did." To my way of thinking, this is giving too much credit to many of the American bishops. Sad, but true.
Again, Sister Joan's
Again, Sister Joan's perspective makes a complicated issue clear. There is just one think I'd like to add on the subject of abortion. Pro-lifers are not really pro-life, but are anti-abortion. Pro-choicers are not pro-abortion, but are pro-privacy for women. I don't believe anyone is actually pro-abortion, certainly not our president, and it is inaccurate to claim so. It is not the business of government to invade the body of a woman and her right to privacy. Women are not the property of any person or group. This is the real issue, a woman's right to the privacy of her decisions for her own body which is not owned by the government, religion, or society. The women I know who are pro-choice are not pro-abortion, and I wish this connection would be publicly exposed for the fallacy that it is.
Thank you - you are so right!
Thank you - you are so right! I completely agree. Who could possibly be pro-abortion? I find it to be a totally inaccurate label. No one is in favor of abortion; some are simply in favor keeping it legal as one option of many for women faced with a very challenging, "heart-wrenching" decision. Saying someone is "pro-abortion" is just one of the many ways some people try to make a very murky, gray issue a simplistic, black and white dichotomy.
When we label others as "pro-abortion," we lose one of the common grounds pro-life and pro-choice people share. People on both sides agree we should work towards and end to abortion - their differences lie in how to do so. Rather than slashing and burning our common ground, lets build on it. It does not help advance the dialogue or work to a solution at all to label pro-choice individuals "pro-abortion."
A woman's body, privacy of
A woman's body, privacy of decisions? We are not talking about body waxing for heaven's sake we are talking about the rights of a babe in the womb to life itself. It takes 3 to make a baby in the old fashioned way- one woman, one man and God. It seems to me two parties have been cut out of the situation for a start and of course no one asks the baby would they like to live?
What is wrong with humanity? We all began as a tiny collection of cells in a womb and each and every one of us was allowed to live! How is it possible that you cannot see how evil an act it is to kill an innocent child in the womb?
If you do recognise it as evil then you cannot justify supporting measures that encourage and help someone else to carry out such an evil deed.
What about some honesty and
What about some honesty and truth. I wonder what is being taught in Notra Dame's Zoology courses? The scientific truth is that once a human egg has been fertilized by a hunan sperm the end result in time is GASP another human being. Perhaps the President of Notra Dame has ordered this scientific fact to be taught and be accepted as truth or not dependiing on the students "personal choice". The data from ALL fertility clinics is overwhelming. When the above mentioned fertilization occurs new life is begun. If not stopped that new life will continue to grow and the data from ALL fertility clinics reveals that the end result is not a chicken or a goat or an elephant but guess what folks - - its another human being. This human being will continue to grow and maybe be another Bach or Einstein or Marie Curie or a nun or priest
I would have more respect for those that would terminate life while still
in utero if they had the honesty and the courage to say the truth - I want to KILL that new life in the womb. That is a truth they can not stomach. Methinks they are more like a Hitler who had a "problem" and felt the only solution to his "problem" was to declare legally that Jews were not human and therby justify taking those lives. So by "law" this little "problem" in utero is declared not human - a la Hitler - and therefore we feel justified in terminating that life and salve our conscience. So sad. Seems that we humans know only one way to solve our "problems" is by killing them whether in utero or on "death row".
You are not quite correct
You are not quite correct here. "A human egg has been fertilized by a hunan sperm the end result in time is GASP another human being" can ONLY happen if it is implanted in the womb. And even then there is a chance of failure. And that is by God's design - guess since so many of those sperm-fertilized eggs do not make it to live birth it means God is a big abortionist?
Thank you for commentiing on
Thank you for commentiing on my post. You are quite correct that fertilization does not per se guarantee that the new human (I assume you accept the scientific data from fertility clinics that indeed the product of said fertilization is a human being)will grow unless (please see third sentence down from the sentence you quote) ---if not stopped -- I should have amplified that statement by adding -- if not stoppeed by a number of "accidents" such as the one you mentioned,failure of implantation in the womb plus several others such as ectopic pregnancy, umbilical cord accidents (thrombosis,cord compression etc.), chemical or surgical termination, uterine rupture,Rh incompatibility (which fortunately we now are able to dx and treat - although unfortunately not in some parts of the world - "unexplained" intrauterine death, and other causes that prevent that person to continue to live and grow. And of course having survived in utero there are many "accidents" that may prevent that human being from continuing to grow to its full potential such as infectious diseases, gun shot wounds, overdosing on heroin, cancer, hypertension etc. You are correct fertilization does not guarantee continued intrauterine or extruterine growth and development. Life is a bit chancy from the moment of conception (fertilization) onward. I know nothing of theology so can not comment re "God is a big abortionist. Thanks again for your comment,
I find this remark
I find this remark offensive.Abortion does occur naturally but it is abortion in the old medical sense of a natural and spontaneous failure of birth and in later stages it is called miscarriage. You know full well that abortion is now a political term meaning the deliberate decision to prevent a live birth in other words an obstruction or impediment to a life that God's Natural Law has seen come into existence.
Doc, How about some history
Doc,
How about some history of the Controversial Canon Laws and Papal Bulls issued from time to time on different theories about Abortion.
Doc, Have you ever heard of "Quickening", the Papal bull "Effraenatam" issued in 1588 and its reversal two years later in 1588 by "Pope Gregory XIV"?
St. Jerome (circa 340 - 420) wrote in a letter to Aglasia:
"The seed gradually takes shape in the uterus, and it [abortion] does not count as killing until the individual elements have acquired their external appearance and their limbs"
St. Augustine (354-430 CE) reversed centuries of Christian teaching in Western Europe, by returning to the Aristotelian Pagan concept of "delayed ensoulment." He wrote that a human soul cannot live in an unformed body. Thus, early in pregnancy, an abortion is not murder because no soul is destroyed (or, more accurately, only a vegetable or animal soul is terminated). He wrote extensively on sexual matters, teaching that the original sin of Adam and Eve are passed to each successive generation through the pleasure generated during sexual intercourse. This passed into the church's canon law. Only abortion of a more fully developed "fetus animatus" (animated fetus) was punished as murder.
Pope Innocent III (circa 1161-1216): He wrote a letter which ruled on a case of a Carthusian monk who had arranged for his female lover to obtain an abortion. The Pope decided that the monk was not guilty of homicide if the fetus was not "animated." Early in the 13th century he stated that the soul enters the body of the fetus at the time of "quickening" - when the woman first feels movement of the fetus. After ensoulment, abortion was equated with murder; before that time, it was a less serious sin, because it terminated only potential human life, not human life.
St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) also considered only the abortion of an "animated" fetus as murder.
Pope Sixtus V (1471-1484) issued a Papal bull "Effraenatam" in 1588 which threatened those who carried out abortions at any stage of gestation with excommunication and the death penalty.
Pope Gregory XIV (1535-1591) revoked the Papal bull shortly after taking office in 1591. He reinstated the "quickening" test, which he determined happened 116 days into pregnancy (16½ weeks).
Pope Pius IX (1792-1878) reversed the stance of the Roman Catholic church once more. He dropped the distinction between the "fetus animatus" and "fetus inanimatus" in 1869.
Leo XIII (1878-1903): He issued a decree in 1884 that prohibited craniotomies. This is an unusual form of abortion used late in pregnancy and is occasionally needed to save the life of the pregnant woman. He issued a second degree in 1886 that prohibited all procedures that directly killed the fetus, even if done to save the woman's life. The tolerant approach to abortion which had prevailed in the Roman Catholic Church for previous centuries ended.
The church required from 1886 EXCOMMUNICATION for abortions at any stage of pregnancy. This position has continued to the present time.
Canon law was revised in 1917 and 1983 and to refer simply to "the fetus."
Thanks for reading my post. I
Thanks for reading my post. I know nothing of theology. My post concerned the scientific data re fertilization. Thanks again
A poor young woman,
A poor young woman, struggling with issues of economics and conscience, should not be knee jerked to a place beside Hitler. You lose me there. I tune you out.
Where is the compassion in your post? Is there only room in your heart for unborn? It's a difficult thing; life. I wish I had the luxury of your smug complacency. Methinks perhaps you have not suffered much, nor ventured too far from the radius of your birth.
If only your passions could be as inflamed for humans ex utero. There's real power to change things but thats' much more messy and discomforting. To be Pro-Life is far more difficult than merely being anti-abortion.
Perhaps this person might
Perhaps this person might feel differently if he were a woman; a woman who might have been raped; a woman who is only 9 years old; a woman who is the victim of incest. "He jests at scars who never felt a wound."
And I am tired of pro lifers
And I am tired of pro lifers who use terms like 'in utero' which reduce a real live human woman to a biological organ. What's the matter, can't you accept the fact that you are not dealing with an organ but a full human person who may just be responsible for the lives of other full human persons?
When pro lifers reduce this issue to the primacy of a biological process over the full personhood of a woman they are engaging in the exact same thing you acuse pro choice folks. You've declare legally that a fetus is more human than a woman. Some of us have an issue with that.
You're right, Colkoch1,
You're right, Colkoch1, "woman" is much, much too broad. Change that to "white woman" and you notice the improvement right away.
Are you the same Colkoch
Are you the same Colkoch blogging as “Enlightened Catholicism”?
I touch base with you every so often, taken up by what you say about good clergy (“The Taize Community—A Prophetic Voice”) and bad (“Crusader Raymond Burke Rouses The Catholic Neo Cons By Condemning All Things Obama”), by your hardboiled style (“Jesus, Gender, And The New Covenant”), by your blog motto (“to touch every woman one vagina at a time”), and by your efforts to promote a Roman Catholic Church embodying the values of American Civilization (“Who Really is Catholic in Name Only”).
Where do you find the energy?
A can of Folger's
A can of Folger's
"What's the matter, can't you
"What's the matter, can't you accept the fact that you are not dealing with an organ but a full human person"
There is such irony in your comment because you do not apply the same logic to the foetus who I do not say is more human but equally human!
I ask again and again: What
I ask again and again: What is the punishment for the woman who had the abortion if we declare her a "murderer?" What is the punishment for the physician who performs an abortion in a medical facility? Do we execute them as "murderers"? Imprison them for life? What is the punishment for the medical institution that provides proper medical care and facilities to women who have abortions? Close them? Take away funding? Who is to dole out these punishments? Snowdrop? Doc?
Great job, Sr. Joan. Being Catholic is tough. Not because of Jesus' teachings; but because so many of us laity as well as clergy-- especially hierarchy-- have missed the main message of Jesus: Be compassionate as God is compassionate.
Aldus
aldus, notice how the
aldus, notice how the "pro-lifers" do not respond to this question ever? They are ALWAYS DEAD SILENT when it comes to addressing these questions. This indicates to me that they have not totally thought out, contemplated fully, the results of their words and actions and what it will mean for real people in the real world who are born already and have responsibilities to others who are already born as well. Their lives are not taken into account at all and it shows a total disrespect for the lives of those others affected.
Would the punishment for the woman who had an abortion be life in prison or the death penalty? Who will take care of her other children in that case? How does punishment for this mother equal life for her other children who will be deprived of their mother? How will she ever be able to have children at another time in her life if she is punished and sent to jail and can't find a job when she gets out? How will she be able to support herself and her child or children?
Love is patient and kind, but the pro-life movement consistently proves they have neither patience or kindness for those already born. Their kindness is extended to sperm and eggs and to matter that has not even developed into a full human being and kindness or patience towards the woman is non-existent.
If abortion remained illegal
If abortion remained illegal and a doctor was found to have conducted an abortion the medical licence would be forfeited and the doctor lose registration.I would not jail any woman who had an abortion but send her for counselling and arrange ongoing support services for her.If any woman feels unable to care for her baby then adoption should be considered.
Clinics could be converted to pregnancy support clinics and funds divert to supporting mothers and their babies .
Joan, I am always proud to
Joan, I am always proud to be Catholic educated and part of the world and church you represent. This analysis is another reason why. I was also so proud to be a graduate of Notre Dame's School of Theology when I listened to President Obama and Fr. Jenkins. Both gave truly catholic speeches rooted in the Gospel of a loving, inclusive Jesus who loved the "sinner" more than the law. Thank you for your prophetic voice.
Knowing how much you were
Knowing how much you were rooting for Clinton to be president, this is truly a GREAT column. I really liked your perspective compared to all the other reviews of President Obama's speech. Yes, he taught all this. It's something I think about every day lately - how Jesus managed to talk to everyone and didn't demand everyone change but invited all to if they could see what he was talking about. I like the other reviews I've read here; yours just shows the Catholicity in the speech beyond what is easy to pinpoint as a disagreeing topic.
Thank you for your wonderful
Thank you for your wonderful article. I have been checking for weeks now to see when you would have another column. I was so thrilled to read what a great prospective you have given on the eloquent speech given by President Obama. Let us just pray that some of the right wing group will read and realize that we accomplish so much more without the screaming and finger-pointing.
Wow, I am so proud, so happy,
Wow, I am so proud, so happy, we have a president that can stand up to all our tunnel-minded bishops and their followers. I want to believe this country is finally in good hands and I'm getting there. This speech didn't have to be "explained", it was so clear and beautiful.
Sr. Joan, I no longer choose
Sr. Joan,
I no longer choose to practice Catholicism, but I read your column "religiously." I am never disappointed, but this time I was elated.
Several weeks ago, I read about a nine-year-old girl in South America who had been sexually abused by her stepfather and was pregnant with his twins. Because abortion is illegal in her country (except when the mother's life is at risk), her mother and her doctor appealed to the Courts and successfully demonstrated that carrying the twins to term would, indeed, put the child's life in danger. The doctor received permission to perform an abortion. In response, the local Bishop excommunicated both the girl's mother and her doctor. And the Pope supported his decision. I was deeply moved by this story. That a woman desperately in need of compassion and support during such a crisis was rejected by her Church and forbidden it's greatest gift - the Eucharist - seemed the antithesis of Christianity to me.
My father, who is a devout and practicing Catholic, agreed with me and sought counsel from a Dominican priest who taught him in college. The priest agreed with us.
My faith in God and in my own father's wisdom never waivered while I wrestled with this story. And my decision to leave a Church that would commit such an act felt more right than ever before. It is my belief that when we stay in an abusive relationship (i.e., the lay people and the Church hierarchy) and do not assert our right NOT to be abused, then we are complicit in the abuse.
But you, Sr. Joan, you are a beacon for the lay people of the Church, a real and wise and compassionate woman and I am deeply grateful for you. For me, your words are like cool water in the desert -- refreshing and wonderful! Thank you, Sr. Joan, for all you do and all you are - to all of us.
I so agree with all you said
I so agree with all you said about the Church, Anne. I am a product of Catholic education even through graduate school. I have been on parish committees, cantored and led parish guitar groups for years and taught CCD. I can no longer belong the the RC. My question to you is, pardon my asking, have you found a faith home? If so, where do you go to find a faith community or do you not feel the need for one? I am searching and have yet to find a place where I feel I can belong.
Dear Anne Alba and capegal I
Dear Anne Alba and capegal
I am sorry to hear that you can not find a "faith home" in the RC church -- the church will always have problems and we need people of faith and love to hang in there thru the bad times--we are all the church the good and the bad but God has given us many wonderful people like Sr. Chittister and John Dear and many, many others---don't get discouraged the church needs people like you to bring the message of Jesus to others who struggle with understanding the church.
Thanks for listening
about a nine-year-old girl in
about a nine-year-old girl in South America who had been sexually abused by her stepfather and was pregnant with his twins
This poor child would never have been in this situation if the adults in her life were living according to Christ's teachings which are made clear to us by Mother Church
I too followed this case with great sadness but you need to be careful of believing media reports. The child's life was not in danger. All that was achieved by this abortion was the death of 2 innocent lives who could have been loved and adopted out to a childless couple.
This innocent 9 year old needs our prayers.
When I hear of the abuse of children I think of Jesus' words
"Woe to those who scandalise my little ones
When does immorality become
When does immorality become morality? When does wrong become right? When did President Obama switch from Reverend Wright's church to Cardinal Bernadin's Church? How can any human being advocate elimination of the Death Penalty and be Pro- Choice?
Did Jesus not throw the moneychangers out of the Temple...and still love them? I believe he did, but He, nonetheless, understood His mission to teach Truth AND Justice.
President Obama displayed yet another excellent example of his Polished Political Doublespeak
Dear you gotta be kidding,
Dear you gotta be kidding, You are so right! How does a partial birth supporter, an embryonic stem cell research supporter, an abotion right's supporter, and a user of government money to support these issues become a speaker in supporting Roman Catholic Issues??? Seems to me that these issues spread the works of SATAN!!!
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