If they really mean it, it's about time

This is simply grand! Thoughtful, heartfelt expressions that lift the spirit.

As a woman in my seventies I reflect often on those women in community who have enriched my life. My faith and spirituality has been deepened, my sense of justice awakened, relationships brought to greater integrity, my consciousness raised to my placle on this dear earth with all beings...

Yes, do visit and if there is time, call some of us so that we can pay honor to these fine women.

Namaste

I am surprised, Joan Chittister, that in your exaltation of women religious, you were not more inclusive of the MILLIONS of lay women who worked side-by-side with religous to do all of the things you mentioned in your piece on the Vatican's visit. Certainly, by now you know that women religious are not "closer to God" or "more exalted" than any good spiritual woman who gives her life, her work, her prayer, her desire to serve the greater good. I am disappointed that you did not disavow your readers of the notions of "better than." It is precisely this kind of classism that is destructive of good, collaborative spiritual and ministerial relationships.

But I fear what you are going to hear after it is over is to go back to those medieval trappings and a way of life that is long gone. You will be told that a woman, even if a religious, should be seen and not heard. You will be told your ministry should be limited to the cloistered halls of schools and hospitals, that you aren't social workers. And you will be told that if you insist on following your own charisms, you are outside the church and no longer a part of the christian family.

I thoroughly agree with this refelction. Having worked alongside and with Women Religous they get little praise for their extraordinary contribution to the Church and World. I hope that the Sisters will respond robustly to this 'investigation'. At a time of enromous global challenge you would think the Vatican had other fish to fryand come to that why does this investigation single out only 'Apostolic Religious' and leave the Contemplatives alone?

You speak the truth. My wife's aunt, a Dominican, taught in schools, then she became principal, jumped to hospital administration when there was a need, then raised the funds to build another hospital and run it for years. When she "retired," she cared for older nuns. Now she is frail and other nuns care for her.

In days gone by, when she spoke, local clergy, including the bishop, listened. She could make things happen and had a talent for raising money.

She has accomplished more in one lifetime than most people (man or woman) could do in two.

What do you suppose the Pope will do, if he does not like how the communities are run in the U.S.? Perhaps he would threaten not to ordain these worthy women. :-)

I was under the impression that there was a mass exodus of religious as a direct result of the Vatican II reforms when the value of religious life was questioned.

Catholics both lay and religious questioned faith and morals in the aftermath of Vatican II and there was a commesurate decline in Mass attendance as well.

Didn't nuns move out of convents into private apartments, wear lay clothes, take paid employment?

After 50 years of decline, is the average age of religious over 70 years old?

Hooray for Joan! Let them investigate and see for themselves that women religious are alive and well and living a meaningful, inspirational, and satisfying spiritual life. They may just discover that the quality of life of religious women in the US is superior to the quality of religious life in Rome.

Joan's statement that the LCWR is "the official contact point between women religious and Rome" is inaccurate.

In October 1995, Pope John Paul II (and the Vatican Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life) designated The Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR) as a canonically approved national association of women religious for the United States.

This 1995 canonical designation placed CWSWR on par with the LCWR and ensured that there would be TWO OFFICIAL CONTACT POINTS between women religious and the Vatican - much to the chagrin of the LCWR leadership.

No need to worry. Women religious have proven their VALUE to millions Catholics through the years...
Too bad bishops and cardinals who obstructed justice in the decade of pedophile cases against priests is not getting ivestigated....

I was not surprised by the Vatican's decision to begin a study of women religious. Having spent 17 years in religious life in America one was enlightened to the fact that the hierarchy was and is not ready for a fair and shared vision of the position of women in the Church. First, the ignoring of the Conference of women religious in establishing the makeup of the "committee" in Rome reporting to the Holy Father was a slight of years of efforts to advance , examine and make relevant the work of religious women here in the United States. Second, the qualifications of the women selected could have been expanded to represent theologians, sociologists, educators, health care providers, male religious and lay partners working with our women etc. Thirdly, there was no effort to engage cloistered religious in this review. Fourthly, only religious women in traditional garb were commissioned to lead the study. Finally, there does not seem to be a comparable study of male religious orders of men. Perhaps the omissions of this endeavor tell us more about the goals of the Vatican than its published purposes.

I join Sr. Joan in welcoming the Vatican's visitation. I agree that sisters have sacrificed so much for the good of the Church in the United States. I celebrate many of the sisters I have known in orders such as the Holy Spirit Adoration Sisters (Pink Sisters), Carmelites, Missionaries of Charity, Sisters of Saint Francis of the Martyr Saint George, and Daughters of Saint Paul. I celebrate their sacrifice of their own wishes and desires for the good of the Church. I celebrate their sacrifice of fashionable and comfortable clothes so that they can publicly identify their vocation for all to see. I celebrate their humility in recognizing that they do not have all the answers and accepting that the Church, inspired and protected by the Holy Spirit, leads and guides. I celebrate these good and holy women whose example and sacrifice, humility and compassion, faith and joy in their vocation is such an inspiration. These sisters, sisters in orders who have not abandoned their charism, their vocation, their habits, and their faith, are truly examples for the Church. They live St. Francis' famous saying "Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."

We wonder why so many orders are in decline. The answer to that is so easy, so self-evident. Sr. Joan gives the answer in her article. Simply put, those sisters who were such an example to her, teaching in schools, training altar boys at church, leading choirs, supervising altar societies, nursing in hospitals, caring in nursing homes, all in their habits, giving such good examples, are gone now. They have left the schools, hospitals, churches, choirs, sacristies, nursing homes and have thrown away their habits.

Sr. Joan says we need some more sermons praising the sisters. I agree. We need more sermons about religious women. Sr. Joan believes that this must come from the pulpits. I think it needs to come from the example of the women themselves. The most powerful sermon ever preached is our example -- too bad so many religious women, since Vatican II, have decided not to preach that sermon.

Dear Joan, women religious, in fact any person seeking to live a life of service out of a heart of love, need never fear anyone's opinion but God's. If someone other chooses then to stand and judge, let 'em.

My prayer is that the messenger be astute and spiritual deeply enough to comprehend the true scope of what he sees; and perhaps be moved to greater things because of what he sees, thus twice blessed.

Let your light ever shine, as beautifully it does, dear sisters. Simply carry on as you have been, and take joy in the doing/being.

With love and respect,
may God bless you.

I have yet a different take on this.

My daughter is in her fourth year of formation with what so many people would call a "traditional" (not entirely sure what this means) order and wearing "traditional garb" - as I've seen it referred to here. While I suspect this is looked upon with near disdain by some readers of this column, she fortunately does not accept that view. She was radial in her youth and now she is radical in a "traditional" way. And yes, she spends many hours in quiet prayer - and then more hours working with orphaned girls, young unwed mothers and more. And while the numbers of the "non-traditional" orders have declined dramatically, and the average age increased to dramatically as referenced above, her so called "traditional" order is growing dramatically, with an average age under 40.

I can also assure you, she and those with her would welcome a visit from the Vatican - not out of disdain as expressed above, but out of charity and a certain pride. They would not be angry that the male branch of the same order was not yet being reviewed (such as were the seminaries in this country recently, which apparently was overlooked by the above writers). I personally hope the male orders are reviewed as well at some point, but it does not bother me that it is not happening simultaneously, perhaps due to my more practical mind set and let cynical views.

I am very happy for my daughter in her chosen vocation. And I do believe she has made a very special offering to God of herself, an offering that is indeed unique from my own as a lay married person. And while she has answered what is in a certain way a 'higher calling' this does not lessen my own calling. Only pride & envy would cause me to think in that manner, i.e. to think that because someone else has in a certain sense a 'higher calling' I am therefore less. I believe as the founder of their order has said on multiple occasions, that we are ALL called to holiness and to sainthood, no matter what our vocation.

Please know that I hold in high regard the non-traditional work of today's modern & "non-traditional" religious. But at the same time, I see the reality that it is the "traditional" orders that are growing so rapidly. There is apparently something that attracts young people to a life dedicated solely to God and in service of His church in a radical manner. It is not intuitive, at least not to me, but real nonetheless.

By the way, I understand how Sr. Chittister is rightly proud of the work that women religious do in today's world, but I also suspect that if you were to look back in history you would find that the women religious of yesteryear were equally radical within their environment. Anyone who lives by the will of God in their live will inherently live in a radical manner within society. So I would suggest to anyone who might think differently (as possibly implied by others above) that today's women religious are neither above nor below in their service to society and church.

I wish I could go on, but your time and patience have already been put upon by me.

May God bless all women religious, past and present, for their love of the Lord that is the cause for so much good works.

VISITATION IS DESERVED

As a former religious (9 years), I speak from my experience from one very dysfunctional apostolic religious order. As a candidate, I was picked up by a drunk nun, still drinking with a beer between her legs! In my last year as a religious (2007) the sisters spent a year bickering about whether or not to buy a vacation house; one sister's Lenten fast was to give up nightly scotch on the rocks, but made sure to say she would still drink her nightly beer and wine with dinner, a woman who just made final vows gleefully talked about the 3-4 netflix movies she watched every night. That's the truth. No accountability, no obedience, little prayer, superficial spirituality, complacency, trips all over the world, long sabbaticals, and no fiscal or relational responsibility. What's so radical about that life? That order, and many others I suspect, are stuck within their own belief of their so-called radicalism, spirituality, and greatness. While there are some faithful and holy apostolic religious, they ought to reflect about why no one is entering their groups anymore, and why younger, dynamic, attractive women are entering the more traditional orders that have clear boundaries about who they are and what they represent. My life as a single woman in ministry is far more prayerful, simple, obedient, and deep than my life as a religious. If religious women want to be noticed and respected, then let your lives speak to who you are, but also listen to feedback of what others see or don't see in your lives.

I am a social worker and a young religious. I stand proud of the work of women religious in the U.S. As someone said, "no need to worry".

As a religious in her 70's who has gone through all the transitions of the last 50 some years both in religious life, the Catholic church and the world, I can say that the most important part of my life has always been prayer, time with God. That is what has nurtured and strengthened every ministry I have been called to do. Deep prayer is the key to this wonderful life of the vows. No deeply human committed life is easy,as my married sisters and friends can testify; however, there is joy and peace. Quite honestly, a Vatican investigation cannot take that away. In the meantime, I think Sandra's advice is good and it would be wise for us to follow it.

Thank you HOLY FATHER
for caring enough about your obedient sisters here in the USA. We are
filled with gratitude that you want to help us in a time of great CRISIS. Yes,
we have accomplished much in the past and hopefully in the future. We first
of all need to acknowledge that we are in a crisis. We can continue to
pretend that all is fine. Cardinal Franc Rode said, "I am convinced that if we adhere to what John Paul II and what Benedict is teaching us today, we will emerge from the crisis of consecrated life into a new springtime of renewal in consecrated life in America." Sisters,look to your roots and
cling to the Church.

Joan has made some valid points about the contributions of women religious over the past 50 years. However, the fact remains that the communities who are members of the LCWR are dying out. Within 20 years, most will be gone. After Vatican II, many women religious were no longer living in community, they weren't praying together, and they weren't wearing habits. They left traditional ministries to become social workers and political activisits. They seemed to have lost thier identities. In short, they had little to offer young women. The lives they led were no different than those of single women in lay ministry. There was no need for young women to join them. There are scores of young women today interested in religious life. However, they are gravitating toward the newer, traditional communities. They want to live in community, pray together, and wear habits. Their ministries are still radical; however, they are consecrated women first and social workers or political activists second. They have a clear focus, identity, and charism. While LCWR communities have contributed a lot to humanity over the past 50 years, the "experiments" of post vatican II were failures. These "progressive" communities have progressed themselves into extinction. My feeling is that they should simply be allowed to die out and let the newer, younger, more traditional communities take over. They will survive and thrive. They are the future of religious life.

So, let's see. . . . There was a mass exodus of young nuns after Vatican II--for a number of reasons, part of which is that priests stopped preaching about it.
Interesting. When priests preached against contraception, Catholics didn't use it. When priests preached in favor of the priesthood and religious life, Catholics joined them. When priests said, "COnfess your sins," people did. Now, priests preach, "Do whatever feels right," and people stop coming to Mass.

I love the recruitment ads for these "new," so called reformed SIsters. "We're just like everybody else." Great. So why would a woman want to give up the opportunity to own property or have sex just to be like everyone else?
Oh, that's right, modern day "sisters" live in luxury condos and wear designer clothes. They really could care less about their vows of chastity, except that most of them are man-hating feminists.

And, big surprise, their numbers are worse than ever.

Meanwhile, orders like the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia and the Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist barely have room for their vocations.

Go figure.

And now Earth Mother Joan says that she's "validated" by the fact that the Vatican wants a thorough investigation of women's religious orders?

Responding from the other side of the desk, I am deeply grateful for the thorough, strong religious and musical schooling that I received from Grade 1 through college, all in classrooms blessed by teaching sisters. Also, my family has benefited through a couple of generations from nursing sisters.
As an active lay Catholic, I am dismayed that our American sisters have been singled out for "Vatican visitation".
I keep thinking of the apt metaphor for lack of Vatican oversight concerning the bishops' footdragging during the sexual abuse crisis: like "rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking."
Why are the noncompliant bishops not being investigated? Why was the National Review Board so dismally ignored or had their efforts obstructed when they tried to check various dioceses' archives?
I grieve for our faithful and dedicated priests who have been suffering during all this.
Why was the wonderful English translation of Holy Scriptures which was worked on so diligently for years during the 1980s not accepted by the Vatican? We are still struggling with the very poor English translation of The New American Bible with its multiple, confusing pronouns.
I pray for our Church. I pray that other disappointed lay women will stay and help in our ministries, that they not leave for other churches that appreciate their talents and
scholarly training.
Thank you, Sister Joan.

Sr Joans analysis is insightful and hopeful. While I am a bit suspicious of this visit, and very concerned that it was designed with little input from those being visited, I maintain hope for the outcome and for the future. Those conducting the visitation would do well to consult with lay groups and to obtain their input on the state of women religious in America. And they need to look forward, not back.

Sr Joan,
Again, congratulations on bringing to the printed word the truth about the many fine exceptional women religious who have served so well over the years. Enought cannot be said to give them praise for their hard work and dedication in living the faith and passing it on through their work. Perhaps the Vatican will be pleasantly surprised and truly benefit from a closer association. Keep up the good work and continue to spread the word. Thanks abundantly!

I have always respected the women who have called themselves Nuns. In reading all these replies to Sister Joan's article I found myself having many different emotions. A Catholic for over 75 years I have known or "known of" many, many Sisters and their many accomplishments. I would say to those who wrote replies, " Thank you for the many compliments to these women and their work" and to those who would criticize, "Please become a Nun first and then decide how they should dress, work and live." Peace!

As a Catholic school teacher who has worked with sisters, and as one who was educated by them, I would like to say that most of the sisters I have known were wonderful role models of the intellectual and spiritual life, and continue to be so today. What they wear and whether they live in convents or apartments has less to do with anything than their accomplishments. Bravo, ladies, your lives speak for themselves.

As an Associate member of a congrgation of nuns, may i say that they, as a group, are admirable women doing God's work of caring for the poor, the marginalized and have the missionary spirit of spreading the gospel message by the lives they live and the charisms they bring forward from their foundress Mother Marie Anne Blondin.The Visitation seem to be a confirmation of the respect the Papacy has shown by raising so many foundresses to a level of sainthood in recent years.
jean

All the babbling by Chittister, and NOT ONE WORD about Right to Life! That is not on the radar screen for any of the modernist orders of sisters. They weep for convicted murderers who face just retribution for their monstrous crimes, but open not their mouths for the babies done to death in the name of 'choice.' When I was an Associate of the Sisters of Mercy, I received their publications for over two years, from their district and national offices. Never, though they addressed and supported liberal causes without end, did they address Right to Life. Perhaps, even likely, some of their membership was pro-life, but that conviction was not expressed by the leadership at all, again not once. Abortion was a non-issue, plain and simple. Month after month I hoped for some statement/article voicing their concern and support for the unborn babies who were called into life only to meet barbaric and agonizing ends. Never did they seem to remember Christ's Words, "Whatsoever you do to the least of My brethren, that you do unto Me." Silence, when there should have been clarion calls for the protection of the unborn! Maybe this is why the modernist orders are most certainly dying out. With all their causes, they ignore the greatest cause of all ... RIGHT TO LIFE!

To Anonymous of March 1,

Oh, Pleeeze! The topic that Sr. Joan addressed was about the Visitation of the American Women's Religous Orders. This was not a topic about the Right to Life! I support the Right to Life totally. But every topic that people write about does not have to revolve around this topic.

And failing to blather on and on about Right to Life is not the reason why some orders are dying out. Jesus promised to be his Church (clergy, religious, laity---all of us) until the end of time. He did not promise to be with all forms of clerical life until the end of time (we had married popes, bishops and priests---in our Church's history). We had various forms of monks (out in the deserts during the persecutions of the Christians), that served the purpose that God intended---and then they died out. Jesus did not promise to be with all religious or even some religious orders until the Final Judgement. God changes all things--- but does not change. And from Scripture--"Who has know the mind of God or who has been his mentor?"

With the newer traditional orders??? Who knows where they will be in 50 years?
But Jesus will remain with His Church. That is his promise. That is all that matters.

Don't you suppose that if GOD knows what is best for the church? Don't you think that he knew that there would be this revolution in the church and the world about which continent would be the greatest, the strongest, the most Powerful, or even the most DESTRUCTIVE?

My mother loved most everyone. We lived in CA and she came to know a few of the Russian Immigrants who fled to the US during the 1950's. She helped them get jobs and helped them to establish themselves. She knew some German but she came to know Dr and Mrs Bichkov. They were Russians but they came from the Russian Orthodox Church, and they did NOT believe in the horrible Russian hatred that was going on during that time in Russia.

I believe that America is changing very fast. Changing and Becoming. I fear what is coming. I wasn't afraid when JFK was president because he was a Good man!

What is wanting in religious orders--- and this means of both men and
women--- is accountability and the allied responsiveness to the
concerns of the church at large.

Nowhere is the refusal of the above better illustrated as in the LCWR's
steadfast refusal to find alliance or common ground with abuse survivors
as personified by SNAP. Year after year, SNAP knocked on the door. Year
after year, they were refused entry.

Women religious are fond of portraying themselves as bridge-builders,
peace-makers and so on. In this, they wish, it seems, to portray themselves
as pursuing another course than the male-dominated, patriarchal, and
paternalistic society of male priests and religious.

One would therefore have expected them to take the point as regards
to those who've been dealt the most serious injustices within the church.

And yet, in this, they are as "corporate" and compassionless as any other
segment of the Church.

Religious life is a noble calling and pursuit, to be sure.

At the same time, however, it does carry with it certain advantages
and privileges in the Church and in society at large. With these
privileges comes the risk of a certain degree of individual and
corporate self-indulgence. And yes, risk of the c-word (clericalism),
even among women.

If women religious chafe under the idea of a unilateral action by the
Vatican to hold them accountable, perhaps they need to look to their own
demurral towards calls from SNAP, among others, to a greater degree of
accountability for their stewardship of the institution which is
religious life, together with the opportunities accorded them which give
them the ability to choose their lives of fulfilling service.

Religious orders singly and as groups such as the LCWR must disabuse
themselves of the delusion that they can be accountable only to themselves.
If they do not, then it is fitting that higher authorities give them
some "help" in this regard.

Dear Jean Bainger

Please be more optimistic. I know you are discourgaed, but we can succeed.

If those who procure and perform abortions were punished with life imprisonment, most abortions would be prevented. Most doctors would prefer a boat to a cell. Most women would think that giving birth isnt as inconveniencing as 50 years in jail.

All we need to do is educate the progressives who are keeping abortion legal. If they understood that it is murder, they would help to outlaw it.

Why worry?

A college student worries when his parents come to visit if he has failing grades, his carpet reeks of bong water, and he spent all the money they sent him on the vintage album art that he now has on the wall.

Again, why should they worry if they are doing such great things? The Pope isn't going to force a starched habit on them. Calm down, people!

I don't know why anyone is worried about the apostolic visit. The fact is that the religious communities who are members of the LCWR are dying out. In 20 years most will be extinct. So why is everyone worried about something that will soon be gone? These communities might try to fool themselves into thinking they're "vibrant", but how vibrant can a community be whose majority of members are retired or in nursing homes? Feminism, eco-spirituality, liberation theology, political activism, and new age practices won't bring them back. I say we leave them alone and let them die a quiet, peaceful death.

Has Sr Joan and the other women religious managed to pass on to the culture around them the need for a new generation of committed 'religious' so the ministries can continue as just that, ministries and not social works?

I'm the least of anyone passing a comment on the work of such a great woman as Sr Joan or for that matter, the Pastoral Associate in my own very small rural Australian parish, Sr Helen Madden, of the Sisters of St Joseph of the Scared Heart (Founder: Bl Mary Mac Killop).

But as we grow older, there is a desire in each of our hearts surely, to know that the what and why we have lived our committed lives has been received and understood and it is those things which will be taken up by the next generation and continued. I'm not sure that I can see clearly, signs that this is happening.I'd like some indications if anyone has discerned them that it is.

It takes a brave and beautiful woman to speak so profoundly for all women, while participating in the real world today. With out Sr. Joan reminding us to speak, I wonder what will happen to our voices! Seldom does one ignite thought and opinion the way that Sister Joan Chittister does. What a blessing she is to us.

"These communities might try to fool themselves into thinking they're "vibrant", but how vibrant can a community be whose majority of members are retired or in nursing homes? Feminism, eco-spirituality, liberation theology, political activism, and new age practices won't bring them back. I say we leave them alone and let them die a quiet, peaceful death."

Well said! Practice and promotion of feminism, eco-spirituality, liberation theology, political activism, new age practices. But across the board, refusal to concern themselves, unlike Mother Theresa, with the slaughter of the innocent unborn, today totalling 53,000,000 in this country alone. They have stood mute while Our Lord has been mystically done to death time without end. There were more important things to concern themselves with. ("... failing to blather on and on about Right to Life" - disgusting comment above) "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto Me."

The modernist orders are irrelevant. They have made themselves so. The traditional orders who care for life in word and deed thrive.

Where have all the good sisters gone? They're out there, doing God's work quietly and humbly and staying away from the cameras - real people of God.

We just see the ones that seek the public attention and have been trying to cram their modern, liberal example down our throats for 50 years. Hopefully, they will be quickly identified and judgement swiftly passed during this visit. Past sins have caught up with them.

I was with the Franciscans OFM for short while. I left because they had made them selves irrelevant spiritually. They thought that social activism and socio-political theology were more appropriate expressions of their founder today. That order is about to go out like a lamp running out of oil. Most of us who left were looking at trying to be holy and be closer to God. This desire for the spiritual life and it's importance is actually growing in the world as a rejection of the materialism that is also growing. It's our closeness to God that sustains us in ministry, not the other way around.

Paranoia based on false assumptions, often leads to self-fulfilling prophecies. If you have nothing to hide . . .?

Time to weed out all the dykes, dissenters, liberals, social justice/activists, cafeteria catholics, labyrinth walkers, etc etc from the convents!! No need to investigate the male seminaries, the sex abuse scandal already set those wheels in motion.

I wish there was a little more background in this article for laypeople to understand more about the issue of the Pope's visit because people clearly don't get it.

One area of clarification is in regard to sisters, and not "nuns." Sisters belong to what is called a "religious institute." A "nun" is one who is cloistered. The pope will be visiting both, no doubt.

But what also needs clarification is that the pope is not likely to visit just any order. The ones he will focus on are those which are called "canonical" orders, or "canonical" religious institutes. Sisters and nuns belong to communities that are either under the jurisdiction of the local bishop OR they are canonical orders, directly under the Vatican. The pope is going to be wanting to see the canonical orders which are under his jurisdiction, not out of disinterest to diocesan communities, but because the pope has direct responsibility to the canonical orders.

The difference here is crucial to understand and is a point of history. For most religious institutes, having canonical status had advantages. If an order is under Rome, it is not subject to the local bishop for its constitutions. The bishop allows communities to exist within his diocese and of course has some authority, but ultimately he cannot interfere in the workings nor the life of the community. That is the pope's job. The communities are required to submit their constitution and any of their rules or directives to the pope for approval.

For most orders, having canonical status prevents their order from being subject to a local bishop, allowing the order to have more freedom perhaps than would otherwise be the case, for your "boss" is on another continent. In US history, many orders have died out at the whim of local bishops, and my own order had nearly died of disease after the bishop forced the nuns in the 19th century to take care of the seminary at great cost to their health. Achieving canonical status allowed the sisters to open schools rather than scrub the floors of the seminary.

Under Pope John Paul II, the person responsible for reading and approving the constitutions of religious institutes was in fact Cardinal Ratzinger, our now Pope Benedict. Most people probably do not know that Cardinal Ratzinger had far more jurisdiction of sisters and nuns in the US than did the pope for decades on end. His visit now as Pope Benedict is far more significant than laypeople can understand without knowing this crucial fact.

Any orders not wearing habits and not in monastic enclosure had a good deal of trouble getting their constitutions past Cardinal Ratzinger for approval. Many orders had not worn habits for more than 20 years by the time Cardinal Ratzinger came along. Not only were the sisters at risk, but so were schools and hospitals if those constitutions were not approved. I myself know of how my own order had to be very careful on how the language of the constitutions was worded so that they would be approved. If the word "habit" was not used, then words like "appropriate symbol of identification" were sought. Many orders had their constitutions sent back for revisions.

No doubt many lay Catholics will think justice is coming home to roost if Pope Benedict decides to visit a canonical religious institute and does not see habits and does not see strict monastic enclosure. But the pope could come into any church he pleases and close that church should he see fit, and it could be yours.

Sister Joan is putting a positive spin on this pope's visit which in fact is going to cause some serious worry to many communities of sisters who are in orders that are hundreds of years old. No doubt they will all stand tall to welcome him, but the facts behind this visit are only hinted at here, and are likely to escape most Catholics. Only a nun or sister can read behind the words and know what this visit might lead to, and that could be the closure of their institution.

Indeed, if the non-traditional religious like Joan Chittister are worried about the upcoming visit, they should be. It is going to be awfully tough for these sisters/nuns to explain their interesting positions and theories and the very good reasons they felt they have had for straying away from the Magisterium. It will be interesting to watch this played out in the media.

Here is a good question for Joan Chittister and her friends: Do you notice the outrage about our President visiting Notre Dame and being awarded an honorary degree? Have you considered that your order(s), much like Notre Dame, are squandering whatever Catholic goodwill you once had? No one who strays this far from the Church can remain hidden forever. Catholics see and know what you have done and precisely how far from the Church you have moved. We also see how closely you now emulate secular institutions. If you are this unhappy with the Church, why not just say so, return the donations of the people who support you because of your use of the word "Catholic", and form your own new order outside the church? Wouldn't that be more intellectually honest? On the other hand, you would then have to forfeit the enormous financial backing of the Church, its worldwide influence, and you might then have to actually admit you were wrong. You simply can't have it both ways....

Joan Chittister and those like her have an accounting to give to the Church, just like any wayward employee caught sleeping on the job. Hope they have alternate career plans.

'Tis by their fruits you shall know them'

Would we expect many from the Vatican to recognize The Fruits of the Spirit in these women?

The church is upside down in its allocation of praise, respect and resources, as society is, and has traditionally been. Those deemed inherently worthy of respect, praise and resources, e.g. men, often white, get it regardless of what they have done, or not done, to deserve it. That's because they have commandeered the praise, respect and resources and, no surprise, are giving it to themselves. Those who work without encouragement or resepct often do it under the radar. But that is the way of the world, it has always been this way, and we know that it's not a reflection in any way of Christ, who taught humility and service to others. It's unfortunate that the Vatican continues to adhere to this skewed, self-congratulatory structure, but in that sense the Vatican reflects the way of the world more than it would ever admit. The truth is, despite the all-male hierarchy, women (lay or religious) ARE the church. Women fill the pews, often dragging husbands behind them; they enroll the children in Catholic school; they do much of the behind-the-sanctuary work; they do much of the social work. (This is also true in a family in which the man may still consider himself the head -- women are often the heart and soul of the family, and the glue that holds it together.) And if women walk out, the church will evaporate. If they no longer become nuns, much of the grass roots good the church actually does when it is not bleating about abortion and gay marriage will also evaporate. And a smart, clear-sighted pope would know this, and he would appeal to women, becuase women are their bread-and-butter, their hope and the church's (earthly) salvation.

The church is upside down in its allocation of praise, respect and resources, as society is, and has traditionally been. Those deemed inherently worthy of respect, praise and resources, e.g. men, often white, get it regardless of what they have done, or not done, to deserve it. That's because they have commandeered the praise, respect and resources and, no surprise, are giving it to themselves. Those who work without encouragement or resepct often do it under the radar. But that is the way of the world, it has always been this way, and we know that it's not a reflection in any way of Christ, who taught humility and service to others. It's unfortunate that the Vatican continues to adhere to this skewed, self-congratulatory structure, but in that sense the Vatican reflects the way of the world more than it would ever admit. The truth is, despite the all-male hierarchy, women (lay or religious) ARE the church. Women fill the pews, often dragging husbands behind them; they enroll the children in Catholic school; they do much of the behind-the-sanctuary work; they do much of the social work. (This is also true in a family in which the man may still consider himself the head -- women are often the heart and soul of the family, and the glue that holds it together.) And if women walk out, the church will evaporate. If they no longer become nuns, much of the grass roots good the church actually does when it is not bleating about abortion and gay marriage will also evaporate. And a smart, clear-sighted pope would know this, and he would appeal to women, becuase women are their bread-and-butter, their hope and the church's (earthly) salvation.

The church is upside down in its allocation of praise, respect and resources, as society is, and has traditionally been. Those deemed inherently worthy of respect, praise and resources, e.g. men, often white, get it regardless of what they have done, or not done, to deserve it. That's because they have commandeered the praise, respect and resources and, no surprise, are giving it to themselves. Those who work without encouragement or resepct often do it under the radar. But that is the way of the world, it has always been this way, and we know that it's not a reflection in any way of Christ, who taught humility and service to others. It's unfortunate that the Vatican continues to adhere to this skewed, self-congratulatory structure, but in that sense the Vatican reflects the way of the world more than it would ever admit. The truth is, despite the all-male hierarchy, women (lay or religious) ARE the church. Women fill the pews, often dragging husbands behind them; they enroll the children in Catholic school; they do much of the behind-the-sanctuary work; they do much of the social work. (This is also true in a family in which the man may still consider himself the head -- women are often the heart and soul of the family, and the glue that holds it together.) And if women walk out, the church will evaporate. If they no longer become nuns, much of the grass roots good the church actually does when it is not bleating about abortion and gay marriage will also evaporate. And a smart, clear-sighted pope would know this, and he would appeal to women, becuase women are their bread-and-butter, their hope and the church's (earthly) salvation.

Sister Joan Chittister

Have you ever thought what your religious order will look like in 20 years?
you and the rest of the old progressive sisters will be gone. And there will be no one to replace you. No young nuns, the traditional religious orders will indeed have all the vocations and they will be bearing much fruit.

The bible says in the Old Testament that if a prophecy comes true... then the person is to be considered a prophet... does not matter social or political rank..

About 40 years ago a couple of very obscure people in the northeast had a few private revelations, from Jesus and Mary... the real progressive religious leaders paid no attention and even tried to suppress them.

What did these revelation say.... Jesus said that He was going to withdraw all new vocations from these progressive orders. He spoke a lot about religious habit and veil... complaining that His Mother Mary never dressed like the new nuns dress

Sister look at the web sites for the traditional and compare them with the very progressive nuns and U will find almost no vocations.... no young people in the very progressive orders and an overflowing of vocations to the traditional orders.

When your favorite professional football team fails to get young recruits you know that they will not be winners in the future.. most likely they will be extinct in 20 years.... the same holds for your kind of nuns.

I knew very progressive bishop (deceased now) was ask about the liberal religious orders in his diocese. He boldly said that they would all be extinct in 20 years. And he did not appear to care.... the laity would be doing every thing by then. He appeared to not be concerned in the least..
But I believe that God has not abandoned consecrated life.. It will always be a part of God's Divine Plan.

Praying that you see the light.

prayers

Joseph

I would like to say that there seems to be non-Christians/non Catholics writing on this blog. Especially, bobby bucher who can't wait for what he considers people who should be cast out and thrown out of the church. Jesus ministry was to the outcasts Bobby. The people like you and others in these letters who profess to be so dang righteous will manage to split the church. Jesus wasn't too into those righteous people who had to do everything by the rules. The Vatican is all about bringing everyone into line...well I feel God gave us a mind to think with and I personally have had enough of the rule of Benedict and "The Not So Great JPII" Every Pope since John the XXIII has tried to undo what was done during the Vatican II council. And they will fail because the reason they are doing it is to retain their POWER. So, feel free to follow these power hungry men all the way to the gates of heaven. Personally there is An Emerging Church growing and it the opposite of the Church of Rome. It is about serving others not ruling others. So,I 'd like to recommend to all of you that are so upset with these sisters from the last 50 yrs or more. Go read the Gospels again. Jesus was never about investigations and bringing people into line and excommunicating those who disagree with us. The peasants have been educated, theologically and morally and there is no turning back. The Middle Ages are over and I wish someone would tell them as they do not seem to have a clue.

This visitation should have been started on a much-more-often time!. The status of many orders of women religious in the USA is such a shambles. Look how many women religious have abandoned their order's habits, their founder or foundresses rule, those who have stood out in open, heretical defiance of infallibe Church Magisterial Teaching. With the state of many of these orders' communities, why would any young Catholic women want to join them? Such is no wonder to me.

Compare this with the "success" of attracting vocations with many older and newly founded orders of women religious present within the USA who having no problem attracting new postulants considering their orders? Look at the Dominican Sisters in Nashville, the resurgent cloisters, the Missionaries of Charity, the Daughters of Saint Paul, the Daughters of Mary, Queen of Apostles to name a few... Sisters it is high time for you all to follow what the Vatican II documents direct of you in going back to your founder or foundresses rule and spirituality - all of which included a clearly Catholic Christian identity which- in the view of many laity such as I- many of you seem to have lost. There's still time... come back.

I know that my experience with sisters has been nothing but positive. I didn't have them in primary education, but started to encounter them as I went to university and became more involved in Church activities. The only odd experience I had was when I quoted Saint Thomas Aquinas in a discussion, and the sister shot back a defensive reply, even though I wasn't even discussing what she disliked about Aquinas. That was odd, but I guess she was dealing with some concerns that I didn't really appreciate.

Thanx for the share!!