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PDF versionA divide that may not be bridged
by Joan Chittister on Feb. 19, 2010
Being in Ireland as the country and the church continue the torturous process of resolving -- if that's possible -- the standoff between victims of sexual abuse and the local episcopacy, I find myself returning again and again to a strange but impelling image from a filmic past.
It is the closing scene of Frederico Fellini's 1960 Italian film masterpiece, "La Dolce Vita," the scene on the beach in which you expect to see the man's search for love finally resolved. He is a professional figure, a sophisticated man who specializes in beguiling women and then abandoning them. This last encounter with a simple young woman on the beach seems idyllic. Now, you're certain, love will soften the differences fate has created between them. But the movement of each character toward the other stops. Between them on the shore is an inlet too wide to negotiate in suit and shoes. As the tide comes in and the inlet widens they attempt a conversation, calling to one another across the gulf, but, you come to realize, they are not capable of either hearing or understanding what the other one is saying. And therein lies the tale. There are encounters in which, without great effort on both sides, communication, however desirable, is not possible.
I've been watching the Irish sex abuse situation here for years. And learning about communication from every minute of it. This is not the United States of America. This is Catholic Ireland. Nothing could be more different than these two cultures in their approach to a church problem. In the United States when the sexual abuse crisis erupted and the church retreated behind a plexiglass of legal responses, people picketed churches, signed petitions, demonstrated outside chanceries, and formed protest groups.
In Ireland, the response had another kind of chill about it, however. In Ireland the gulf got wider and deeper by the day. It felt like the massive turning of a silent back against the bell towers and statues and holy water fonts behind it. No major public protests occurred. "Not at all," as they are fond of saying. But the situation moved at the upper echelon of the country relatively quietly but like a glacier. Slowly but inexorably.
A country which, until recently, checked its constitution against "the teachings of the church" and had, therefore, allowed no contraceptives to be sold within its boundaries, unleashed its entire legal and political system against the storm.
They broke a hundred years of silence about the abuse of unwed mothers in the so-called "Magdalene Launderies." They investigated the treatment of orphaned or homeless children in the "industrial schools" of the country where physical abuse had long been common. The government itself took public responsibility for having failed to monitor these state-owned but church-run programs. And they assessed compensatory damages, the results of which are still under review in the national parliament.
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Meanwhile, the average Irish person in the pews digested the information and, at the same time, calmly but clearly to declare a separation between "the faith and the church," between the sacramental system and the individual conscience. The sacraments they continued to respect, but church attendance has tumbled in the cities. Their individual consciences, on the other hand, they reclaimed. "They won't be telling us what to do anymore," an old man on the street said in one of the earliest public interviews on the problem. "We'll be deciding that for ourselves." And, to judge by local conversations and polling data years later, nothing much has changed in that regard.
The fact is that there is still an undigested part of the problem that may well determine the responses of the next generation toward both faith and church more than it affects this one. For them, the issue is not the nature of fallen humanity. Mortal frailty the Irish have learned well over the centuries. The issue is responsibility. On two levels.
The survivor's response to the meeting of Pope Benedict XVI with the Irish Episcopacy had the ring of repugnance about it. "Pope Benedict," Andrew Madden, a spokesperson for the survivors said, "has not articulated full acceptance of the findings of the Murphy Report, as we asked him to do," (RTE1 News, February 16.) That is needed, he went on, "to quell the rise in revisionism and the surge in denial from some quarters within the Catholic church in relation to its findings."
The message is clear:
First, until the church, in an official way, admits that the findings of the Murphy Report on the overwhelming amount of child abuse that went on in Dublin are true and accepts responsibility for the climate that made cover up an episcopal practice, the case, at least in the victims' minds, is not closed. Archbishop Dermot Clifford of Cashel lamented that the Murphy investigation might well be extended to all the dioceses in Ireland. If that happens, he said, "the past won't be past for a long time."
Second, until the bishops who were part of the cover up all resign, the victims argue, the church will not have proven either their rejection of the practice, their determination to change or their ownership of the problem.
Point: Four bishops criticized in the report have offered their resignations, but so far the pope has officially accepted only one of them. All were auxiliary bishops at the time of the first reports of abuse. They did nothing to bring the situation to light. But none of them, no one in the Irish episcopacy, has yet to admit to their own role in a cover-up. No bishop, in a land where the burden of guilt fell heavily on the backs of Irish people, has admitted his own guilt, his own defense of the institution rather than the care of the children. No one has said, "The church -- I -- was wrong in the handling of this scandal. Therefore, I, too, am responsible for this abuse."
So how are the Irish people reacting to the impasse? Well, as they opened Catholic Schools Week in Ireland this month, the Market Research Bureau of Ireland was reporting that 74 percent of the population think that "the church did not react properly to the Murphy Report" and that 61 percent of the population "want no Catholic control of elementary schools." Little more than half of the respondents think the church will really change to prevent abuse in the future, and 47 percent feel more negative than before toward the church.
Most telling of all, perhaps, is the fact that the support of the older generation which, at its best, was once only marginally higher than the support of 18-24 year olds, may be shifting even lower. "The fallout from the Murphy report was a shock to the bishops," Archbishop Clifford said, and "had a far greater negative effect on older people than the previous two investigations had been."
"While they were preaching at us they were damaging our children," an old woman said. "What more can you say?"
From where I stand, it seems that the long-awaited meeting between the pope and the bishops of Ireland is over now, more with a yawn than a standing ovation. In true Irish fashion, everybody's talking about it, but if the data is saying anything, it may be that the love affair between the people and the church is on very rocky ground; one side is not hearing the other and the gulf is growing wider every day.
[]
How very healthy on the part
How very healthy on the part of the Irish people, but how very sad.
I have always heard that people either come from fear or from love. Obviously, also true of The Church. Sometimes a a situation will get worse before getting better - and that would take a great deal of humility on all sides. Love is surely truth.
The gulf is indeed growing
The gulf is indeed growing wider every day and may never be bridged.
I found this interesting comment in an article, "Irish Bishops Face the Music in Rome," (02/16/10) which appeared in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/feb/16/irish-bishops...
"There are two schools of thought about Pope Benedict and the child sex abuse that has disgraced the Roman Catholic church for decades. One view is that he connived in the ostrich-like policy of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II. The other is that he had no option but to go along with that policy (the Vatican being, after all, an absolute monarchy)."
One can only wonder whether anything has been learned from the history of the last century? Going along with such an heinous policy goes against everything the Church stands for.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger most certainly did have an option other than going along.
He could have and probably should have resigned but can anyone name a cardinal whose moral outrage has caused him to resign at that level? Cardinal Ratzinger could have done it in writing and in detail but that would have been anathama in such a clerical system.
Did Cardinal Ratzinger not have a similiar level of moral outrage at what he must have known in his position as head of the Holy Office as he professes to have now?
No, following orders just doesn't excuse such a lack of moral outrage and indignation at the sexual, physical, psychological, and spiritual abuse of so many innocent children, young people and vulnerable adults around the world.
As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger he could have quoted from The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child to which the Holy See was an early signatory. It would be well worth reading the entire Convention, which can be found at:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm
It would be well to also read The Holy See and the Convention on the Rights of the Child: A Shadow Report, published in 2002 which may be found at:
http://cath4choice.org/topics/other/documents/2002rightsofthechildshadow...
The question now is whether or not the institutional Roman Catholic Church has any real possiblity of breaching this widening gulf?
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
So much of this history cries
So much of this history cries out in pain and anger to be acknowledged in order for healing to begin. As an "outsider," a Protestant, I grieve for the abused children and their unknowing parents. Abuse can take place in any gathering and Protestants have also been guilty of allowing such to occur in our churches and church-related organizations. Worse than the abuse itself is the unwillingness to acknowledge it and seek forgiveness that opens the way to healing. Thank you for your ever-enduring courage to speak the truth to power, Sister Joan.
9iWNlr nrdzeybowedx,
9iWNlr nrdzeybowedx, [url=http://pgbamemdrwco.com/]pgbamemdrwco[/url], [link=http://vgfdqdqmphpq.com/]vgfdqdqmphpq[/link], http://vaeakwxibgza.com/
Joan always "tells it like it
Joan always "tells it like it is!!" Bravo!
Pax. Aristophilos
all of us are wounded... and
all of us are wounded...
and all of us reach out to those abused...and to those priests who have served faithfully and are now tarnished because of others sins...
and all of us need somehow to respond to those victims... the nameless children, now adults among us... betrayed and abandoned to find their own way through this tragedy...
but how do we [the people who are church] find a way... how?
respond by contributing to
respond by contributing to SNAP and stop giving to your church. Money talks. I am tired of funding an organization that does not protect its children and then expects us to pay for the damages. I am a Catholic and I attend Mass regularly. I find many worthy organizations to receive my money that have nothing to do with the church.
Dear Kris, Brilliant
Dear Kris, Brilliant suggestion-not. You are encouraging others to commit sin and to damn themselves. Why is it that we within the Church cannot come up with better solutions? Is it because we are so full of Pride that we have lost the ability to forgive as Jesus Christ has commanded us to-seventy times seven? Our Faith becomes diminished when we follow those who encourage retribution and may even support another schism like those which took place in Medieval times. So many say that we should follow Jesus Christ and not the Church? Isn't this a bit foolish? How is this accomplished when Jesus Christ established our Church? Isn't this allowing for a very small minority to overthrow a majority? All of us are sinners! Support your Church! Love the sinner and hate the sin!
Dear Tom, While Kris's
Dear Tom,
While Kris's suggestion may not be the best course, it is NOT suggesting that people "sin." It is NOT a sin to not contribute monetarily to the church. The sin is not loving your brothers and sisters, from the oldest down to the youngest and most helpless, as Jesus loved us.
Kris, the church needs your money, and there are many, many worthy organizations that could use it. Think about Rice Bowl, and the many worthy third-world charities sponsored by the church. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Finally, yes, Tom, we are to forgive one another, and do that in love. That does not mean, however, that we turn a blind eye to what is going on. We are to speak up in love, speak out in love and act with love to end suffering. That is what doing G-d's will on Earth means, after all.
Tom what are the elements
Tom what are the elements that constitute a good individual confession?
1. Acceptance of one's sinfulness
2. Sincere sorrow for the sin(s) committed
[3. Granting of absolution]
4. Penance
Have the Pope and the Vatican and the Irish bishops satisfied all the above requirements esp. #4?
And in the case of the sex scandal in the Irish church this isn't a sin committed by one individual priest.
The cover-up that's been happening all over the world unless the clerical church is pushed to the wall and can't escape no longer are not isolated cases. They are patterned institutionalized response of the hierarchy to protect more their own rather than be on the side of the victims. Resorting to 'forgive one another' is pious to the ears but empty without an honest-to-goodness just restitution.
Lay Catholics are becoming more and more critical Tom in regard to the institutional hypocrisy. I hope and pray that in all Catholic countries lay Catholics will band together into an effective check-and-balance entity to effectively demand transparency and accountability among the clergy in a Church that claims to possess the Truth.
Tom, as one of the most
Tom, as one of the most dedicated advocates in the sexual abuse scandal, the Dominican priest Tom Doyle tells all Catholics that they have an obligation to CEASE to contribute to the Catholic Church or else be considered to be collaborators and enablers in the scandal. This is a fact: if you fund organized crime, you are a collaborator. You have made the mistake of assuming that this Catholic Church has some connection with Jesus Christ. In fact, it should not be allowed to use the adjective "Christian" because of its spirit of exclusivity, triumphalism, secrecy, greed for money and power, and dedication to doctrine over compassion. This organization has nothing, absolute nothing, in common with Jesus Christ. Give your money to help those who can be trusted to give it to the poor and the deserving.
"This organization has
"This organization has nothing, absolute nothing, in common with Jesus Christ."
This organisation is the Mystical Body of Christ. It was founded by Christ and Christ is its head.
It is wounded by OUR sins.
Leaving the Church and withdrawing financial support will only hurt the missions the poor etcetera.Remeber your tax dollars are already funding overseas abortions and if the Presisedt fails to keep his promise the health bill just passed will fund the domestic abortion industry and you are advocating starving the Church of money?
There is no sense in this concept at all and the Dominican who you say suggested it would be better advised to urge cathoics to support Rachel's Vineyard, Priests for Life and Priests in Crisis.
The Protestant Reformation
The Protestant Reformation took place for a good reason. Surely you do not think that the perversion began only yesterday? Much of the theology of the Protestant Reformation is borrowed from the Eastern church. On the other hand, I think the Protestants are among the biggest enablers of child abuse alive. I am confident they were aware of the clerical abuse, but largely kept silent about it. Why do you think one of the first things the Protestants did was to authorize a married clergy? They knew what enforced celibacy could do.
The church is wealthy beyond imagining. It needs no more of our money, particularly if it is going to pay civil judgments for its own misconduct.
Dear Sister Joan, thank you
Dear Sister Joan, thank you for the analysis. To that the golf widens between the protaginists is clear. Almost to a point of no return. Between the defenders, at all cost, of the appearance of the Institution, and the people (women and children first but not only). As I seem to perceive it for years in Switzerland, le golf is widening just as it is in Ireland and in Southern Africa where I lived for a very long time. To even mention in a like minded catholic group, "priests sexual problems" (which are yet so evident)as mentioned in the press, is simply unacceptable, even if this is common knowledge. To try to face each other in search of the truth seems beyond our reach for the moment.
Let us contemplate together
Let us contemplate together the total obscure yet daringly hinting opus of Mr. James Joyce within the light of Murphy, from the Sisters onwards.
A little light Lenten reading . . .
When a church teaches respect
When a church teaches respect for life and damages those in its care then covers up its own sinfulness- it ultimately defeats belief and respect for its teaching authority. When a church protects the perpetrators to preserve a terribly flawed hierarchical system, it corrupts future relationships with believers who feel betrayed and abandoned.
There are so many collateral victims when children are abused.In whom can we place our trust???
"There are so many collateral
"There are so many collateral victims when children are abused.In whom can we place our trust???"
Maybe ourselves for a change??
Until the bishops in every
Until the bishops in every country admit that they were wrong and ask for forgiveness from the abused people, there can be no healing of the faithful. People are outraged and they have lost faith with the Catholic hierarchy. This is demonstrated in the U.S. by people walking away from the church, contributing less money, and ignoring the hierarchical pronouncements. When will they every learn?
Some are guilty; all are
Some are guilty; all are responsible
As the saying goes "Denial is
As the saying goes "Denial is not a river in Egypt". I snorted in derision reading a report that the Pope felt it was weakening of THE FAITH which allowed this to happen. Well begging his pardon it was the very thing that allowed it to be exposed. It was when THE FAITH was at it's strongest here in Ireland that this abuse occured in a systematic manner.
It was heart breaking to witness the whitewash job which occured last week. When fear of fear guides people, let them be laity or princes of the church reconciliation is a foreign word.
I have a question. How when the pews are empty will the hierarchy fund their lavish lifestyles? How powerful will they be when we have all turned our backs on their hollow rites? Maybe they might ponder Psalm 103:15-16.
You're right. If a girl wore
You're right. If a girl wore too much lipstick or was impregnated by her father, and the parish priest decided to incarcerate her in a laundry to slave away, no one questioned his decision. Because of their FAITH.
The pope should start with the Ryan report. And then he should resign.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6325012.ece
From the link:
====================
An interim report published in 2003 provided a glimpse inside a house of horrors, with hundreds of internees at “industrial schools” describing “being beaten on every part of their body”; some of these beatings being administered in front of onlookers with the victim stripped naked.
Sexual abuse of minors was commonly linked with violence, the report said, and “ranged from detailed interrogation about sexual activity, inspection of genitalia, kissing, fondling of genitalia, masturbation of witness by abuse and vice versa, oral intercourse, rape and gang rape”. Some of the victims experienced abuse throughout their time in the care of religious orders.
Among the orders investigated were the Sisters of Mercy, which was responsible for the largest number of children’s institutions including the now notorious Goldenbridge, and the Christian Brothers, who ran institutions for mainly teenage boys such as Artane and Letterfrack.
The Oblates of Mary Immaculate, the Sisters of Charity, the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Presentation Brothers and the Poor Clare Sisters are among the orders investigated.
Having read the tome Trinity
Having read the tome Trinity a few years back, I always wondered how Ireland was doing today. Obviously, not any better than where the tale left off.
About a year ago,on
About a year ago,on Facebook,I stated that I was a practicing Catholic for 77 years-I did not mention that my first 20 years of life were spent in Ireland. Joan Chittister's article tellingly summarises the inherent and long lasting effects of the inaction of the hierarchy and individual bishops in "Holy Ireland".I was never abused by anyone, much less a priest --in fact I had a healthy respect for them and kept as far away from them as possible --but I can empathise with the victims from the very point of view of a sacred trust that has been ruptured.
To be so violated is a fate worse than death itself. I cannot imagine living on with such a burden. Waving the holy water around and mouthing words without sincere meaning, simply adds to the heinousness of the betrayal.
Perhaps the bottom line is a total disillusionment with the Church by many Irish Catholics -- a terible price to pay.
Edward J McDonald
Well said! The bishops still
Well said! The bishops still don't get it, and the institutional church will not discipline the bishops. I love the sacraments, and I love the people of Christ, and I love our liturgy. I have little liking or trust for the institutional church as personified by bishops and popes who cannot or will not take responsibility.
The belief that the bishops
The belief that the bishops should resign as a result of this report is ludicrous. They did not abuse any children, their role was limited to trying to protect the Church from scandal, protect the priest(s) from having their lives destroyed by difficult, if not impossible, to prove accusations (after a certain amount of time, it becomes a case of the evidence of my word against yours), and the alleged victim(s) and families from further pain, embarrassment and suffering. The blame for this situation falls solely on the backs of those who committed the offenses and the psychologists who excused the behavior, assuring prelates that "this priest is cured!".
Furthermore, it should be noted that the number of clerical and religious abusers remains a very small percentage of the total number of priests and religious. As such, the Irish people should be assured that the VAST majority of priests and religious are good people, devoting their lives to the service of God and His Church.
Finally, the enemies of Mother Church (both external and internal) will attempt to use this situation as a club with which to beat the Church into silence on important moral and social issues of the day. The Church must not allow them to do so by spending inordinate amounts of time on this issue; rather it should be dealt with as it was in the US (though, if the Irish Church commissions a "Charter" such as the one from Dallas, one would hope that the Irish bishops will be more careful of the due process rights of accused priests) and the Church should move on. At the same time, the Church must preach its message, in season and out of season. It may be that this time is the "out of season" Scripture warned us of. If so, then we must preach on. There is nothing the Devil would like more than for the Church to be cowed into silence by the sin of a small minority of its clergy. We must never give him the satisfaction.
Here goes Clint Green
Here goes Clint Green again:"There is nothing the Devil would like more than for the Church to be cowed into silence by the sin of a small minority of its clergy. We must never give him the satisfaction." Yes, the devil must be quite satisfied with the hierarchical responses to the sexual and physical abuse of children and youth.
Clerical clint, how many
Clerical clint, how many times have we reminded each other in this interactive forum that WE are ALL the Church - sinners, saints, prophets, kings, priests and until now you couldn't get it. And please don't explain away the collective sin, either by commission or active omission, of the clerical church by resorting to red herring. We're talking here about a patterned response of the hierarchy all over the world to cases of sexual abuse to protect their ilk-perpetrators. You must be probably aware of that part of patterned response: Re-assign the priest to another pastoral setting.
This sort of apologia: They
This sort of apologia:
They did not abuse any children, their role was limited to trying to protect the Church from scandal, protect the priest(s) from having their lives destroyed by difficult, if not impossible, to prove accusations (after a certain amount of time, it becomes a case of the evidence of my word against yours), and the alleged victim(s) and families from further pain, embarrassment and suffering. The blame for this situation falls solely on the backs of those who committed the offenses and the psychologists who excused the behavior, assuring prelates that "this priest is cured!".
...which absolves the leadership so that they may go forward to continue to foster the environment in which predators thrive strikes me as Devilish work, indeed.
Bravo, Clint! Couldn't have
Bravo, Clint! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Overlooking this entire
Overlooking this entire senseless and cruel fantasy, one does discover hidden deeply within it one small sliver of probable, objective, measurable reality to test the credibility of this torturous statement:
" . . .one would hope that the Irish bishops will be more careful of the due process rights of accused priests"
Never mind how the bishops in Dallas may or may not have "violated" them, what in Ireland constitutes "due process?"
The rest is the most absurd and high octane distillation of "blame the victim" we could possibly read, the sort of malarkey which promoted this systematic, institutionalized abuse in the first place.
One wonders for whom Clint speaks, and why . . .
Read your James Joyce, insightfully.
just wondering
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
The Holy See has not been
The Holy See has not been proactive on the crisis of sex abuse in any country thus far, including in the United States and Ireland. Bishops who have covered up sexual abuse and/or protected sex abusers need to be removed and turned over to civil authorities, period. Anything less is the complicity of Rome itself in the scandal. The Code of Canon Law needs to be extended to include a section on clerical sexual abuse, in which the severest canonical penalties are mandated for this reprehensible crime. Zero tolerance for clerical sexual abuse should be BASIC to Rome's response to the scandal.
Perhaps it is time for us to
Perhaps it is time for us to follow Jesus instead of the pope and bishops.
"He who listens to you
"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 10:16). The voice of the Church is the voice of Christ. Wake up Sue Z.
That's a true statement about
That's a true statement about any disciple, anyone who attempts to follow the way Jesus taught. He taught us also that when we reject the least of us we also reject Him. He taught that those who harm the little ones should have a mill stone around their neck and be dumped in deep water. The tendency to separate out the hierarchy as those with a higher mandate and a better divine 'insurance' policy is a really questionable understanding of the Gospels.
Nothing you have said follows
Nothing you have said follows from anything I quoted or said. Further, Jesus' statement does not apply to just any discipline. It is a statement aimed directly and specifically at the apostles.
"There is only one Spirit who, according to His own richness and the needs of the ministries, gives His different gifts for the welfare of the Church. What has a special place among these gifts is the grace of the apostles to whose authority the Spirit Himself subjected even those who were endowed with charisms." (Lumen Gentium [7])
Read first, then comment.
Not when the voice of the
Not when the voice of the Church is white washing the sins of omission of a couple of generations of bishops who
facilitated the rape of children by moving the rapists around and giving them access to more children. That action is not the voice of Christ and before I am scolded for mistaking actions for the teachings of the Church, let me remind one and all that actions are where it's at because, actions speak louder than words.
Not when the voice of the
Not when the voice of the Church is white washing the sins of omission of a couple of generations of bishops who
facilitated the rape of children by moving the rapists around and giving them access to more children. That action is not the voice of Christ and before I am scolded for mistaking actions for the teachings of the Church, let me remind one and all that actions are where it's at because, actions speak louder than words.
"He who listens to you
"He who listens to you listens to me."
Yes.
"He who rejects you rejects me."
Depends. I doubt Jesus was thinking of one of his Twelve sexually abusing a fellow child of God.
"But he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Yes.
"The voice of the Church is the voice of Christ."
Let's be careful in our use of the word 'Church' here. Jesus speaks to and through the church --- when the church permits him to do so.
I doubt Jesus was speaking during those moments when perverted laity, religious, and ordained were sexually abusing the little ones entrusted to their care.
It's important to think, Libertas.
But, hey, I've got a west coast orange bridge to sell ya'. Believe me, it'd be a steal!
I responded strongly to the
I responded strongly to the survey results St. Joan cites. Having lived in Ireland, I feel their pain acutely. Outside the city, local Church run schools are the only option, yet 3/5 of survey responders said schools should be shed of Church. Imagine the shock of bishops reading that 3/4 of responders are angry at poor Church response to the Murphy report. The Irish now know, as we do in America, that senior bishops alienate their nearest and dearest in response to discovery as well as in collusion in cover-up of initial crimes against minor children.
A letter on the V.O.T.F Ireland website trumpets the shattered relationship between bishops and their people and iffy hope of rebonding: "Repairing that relationship will require something that has been missing for decades.." (honest dialogue between bishops and people). It goes on to ask if the Papal pastoral letter will call for dialogue or set up permanent diocesan dialogue structures which include lay people.
Yes, restructure an excessive number of dioceses, but listen to survivors and listen to your "flock." The gulf will continue to parallel the damaged relationship and will continue to endanger the mission of the Church if the Irish laity is perceived as a block of a particular Church rather than a "flock" in need of nourishment.
Anne Southwood
Ch., Boston Area Council, V.O.T.F.
Joan, I am an Irish
Joan,
I am an Irish priest, who has written at length about the situation in the Irish Church. It is very interesting to read how it appears to you from your perspective.
A couple of points of interest.
1. Decline in church attendance began in this country about thirty years ago, and accellerated during the years of the Celtic Tiger, the years of great prosperity. That was to be expected. I belong to a religious community called the Redemptorists, who conducts parish missions and large novenas. There doesn't seem to be any sign of decline in attendance over the past few years. Strangely, since the Ryan and Murphy reports came out, there would appear to be, if anything, an increase in the crowds attending our events. I do not know how to interpret that, though I suspect that a major economic crisis, that is seriously effecting the daily lives of people is a factor.
2. You are wrong in saying that Bishop Drennan was criticised by the Murphy Report. He was not.
3. I am in my sixties, and I have never experienced anything like the shake up in the system that this has brought about. That is a time of opportunty.
My hope is that we will begin to look at some of the underlying causes of the problems that have occurred. Some of us are strongly supporting the notion of more lay involvement at all levels, and especially in the choosing of bishops, a greater role for women, a substantial look at our understanding of Eucharist and Ministry, and maybe most of all some open debate on Catholic Sexual Teaching. We may not achieve much, but there is a better chance now than I ever thought would be possible. The thinking of the average Catholic has been radicalised, which is exciting to see.
4. I don't know that much can be done for the spokespeople for the victims. There is a big danger that they will get locked into their positions, and that nothing the bishops or the Vatican can do will satisfy them.
They are just a few ideas from my perspective. I enjoy your articles very much.
2. You are wrong in saying
2. You are wrong in saying that Bishop Drennan was criticised by the Murphy Report. He was not.
Have the Irish Redemptorists
Have the Irish Redemptorists ever apologized to the Jews of Limerick who suffered during the pogrom of the early 20th century?
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS257&q=pogro...
Maybe they should.
And maybe the orders of nuns and priests who ran the laundries and the industrial "schools" should apologize to their victims. Publish books with detailed accounts by the perpetrators and the victims, so that future generations may understand why some are "locked into their positions".
The answer is clear from
The answer is clear from where I stand: stop ordaining homosexuals.
Deborrah, perhaps you should
Deborrah, perhaps you should check out the situation in Africa. If you do, you may come to the conclusion that the answer is to stop ordaining men.
Then there would be no
Then there would be no deacons, priests, bishops, archbishops or popes.
Oh yes there would. There
Oh yes there would. There would be --women-- deacons, priests, archbishops and popes.
All with God's blessings! ;-)
Sister Joan is, as usual, on
Sister Joan is, as usual, on the money. I see no significant difference between performances of Irish and American church authorities. Those who looked away should resign in both countries. I'm a BC grad ( 1949) and disheartened by our "leaders".
The heirarchy has always
The heirarchy has always covered-up for the sake of its own needs. Disent can be fire itself but it dies and becomes ambers, as the church officials know. It is a world wide church, so some leave-takers who understand the evil in a situation are also easy to bury. What's left? On a Massive and international basis: Withdraw monetarily, do not use the schools, facilities, and refuse to go to church.
It's hard for me to face the bleak choices, but continued compliance will reap the status quo. Please correct me if I'm wrong. History repeats itself when no changes in structure are made.
I seem to remember when the
I seem to remember when the abuse was centerstage here in America the Pope said that it was a American problem. I was taken aback by that statement because we are talking about human nature and that is the same where ever you go. To think that it didn't exist in Europe, to me, was false.
Later I did volunteer work for a blind girl and she was acosted by a priest in Ireland. It tore her apart. She wrote numerous letters to Ireland bishops and to bishops here in America, but got the run around as far as I could tell. It has scarred her deeply. All she wanted to know was whether the priest was still practicing.
I wait with hope dimming for
I wait with hope dimming for the closed clerical systems to acknowledge that we have yet to abandon the practice of child sacrifice in Roman Catholicism. The tragedy of the Irish (subsitute American, Canadian, Autralian, First Nations, German-) situation is that the clerical monarchy still believes that the tide will go out, again. In the world outside the castles we see it otherwise. The tide, incoming, that I foresee is the continuing exposure of corrupt and evil practices which were endorsed by many and condoned by a complicit silence. Our scriptures say that,"even now", at this midnght hour, repentance and conversion are possible if we admit our sin and ask God's help. Would that we believe, and turn, this desert season, to face the awful truth and seek right relationship between and among God's people.
"While they were preaching at
"While they were preaching at us they were damaging our children," an old woman said. "What more can you say?"
Right. This is quite enough.
It struck me today that Tiger
It struck me today that Tiger Woods has shown more humanity in how he has dealt with his "transgressions" than our own heirarchy has for their role in the "abuse scandal." What a sad state of affairs. But we have the message of our prophets, the Holy Spirit remains active, and many of our young people understand the heart of Jesus, the soul of Mohammed, and the enlightenment of the Bhudda - and that gives me hope. From where I stand, the future is bright with the possibility that when the dust settles, believers will re-focus on living in peace with compassion and let the archaeologists of 2525 wonder what were those mitres and doing in the dust of the 20th century.
I detect much sadness in Joan
I detect much sadness in Joan Chittester's remarks. And, indeed, there is much to be sad about in the Irish church context right now.
Irish Catholicism as a social phenomenon has been dying for a long time. What is dying, however, is actually something that had a weak legitimacy at best. Few countries in the world have enshrined the institutional interweaving of religious and secular authority to the extent that Ireland has experienced in the last one hundred years. No one can be sad at its passing. Not I for one.
Right now the church leadership would devoutly desire to have an end to social involvement: an end to the perceived dominant position in education, the health-care system and the provision of some social services. It has happened in Quebec so why not here.
For some the new context provides an opportunity for a reshaping of Irish Catholicism according to the current papal aspiration for a more resolute Catholic identity located in a smaller "faithful remnant" which adheres to Catholic teachings and rejects what is perceived as an accommodation with the European liberal cultural project. How else can one interpret the papal identification of the fundamental cause for our current Irish situation at the recent Rome meeting as "a decline in faith".
Where does that leave the rest of us who do not wish to retreat behind the walls of orthodoxy, ritual and disengagement? With very few options, it would seem. And, yet, never was there a time when a greater engagement with the "signs of the times" was needed.
Why is there no ground swell in Ireland for a national synod? Why do we not have more parish protests and gatherings? Why are the church media largely cowed and watchful? Why are our bishops so lacking in conviction concerning what has happened and what needs to be done? Why is it that the most chilling comment one hears today from ordinary Cathoics is that the Church is "irrelevant"? Why can't we talk openly, honestly and humbly with one another as pilgrims together about what has happened? Will the Irish Church ever experience and Emmaus event where disappointment, hurt, and hope can be shared?
No wonder we Irish Catholics are sa this Lent of 2010.
Joan, are you doing any
Joan, are you doing any speaking engagements in Ireland at all? I would love to hear you speak as I have followed your writing for some time and appreciate your perspective.
In my opinion, from within a
In my opinion, from within a USA perspective but having many Irish relatives and heriatge, I'd say this PR attempt failed horrendously. Thus, making the situation worse rather than better.
B16 appears to be like the brilliant lawyer who cannot do anything but take his own advice to his own detriment.
It would appear that the
It would appear that the Irish people are no longer willing to accept the blarney from their hierarchs. Even the Irish who are known for always giving the benefit of the doubt to members of the clergy, are being awakened. Individuals can only be duped so many times before they begin to realize what is really going on. From all of this will come an understanding that our church has nothing to do with, and no use for: clerics, bishops, cardinals or a pope. We are the People of God who meet to praise him and to help others: we don't need social levels of authority [classism]; we are One in the Lord; He is our leader, not some man in a palace in Rome dressed up in silk and gold ornaments.
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. Macbeth
if it weren't for faith
if it weren't for faith itself, the Church would not exist.Faith trumps church any day.
It was dejá vu! Would that
It was dejá vu! Would that Bishop William Murphy of the Diocese of Rockville Centre admit to his own part in the scandals in the United States! No, his motto is "I am the bishop!" And now, just as he launches the euphemistic "Catholic Ministries Appeal," i.e., formerly called "The Bishop's Appeal," he sends out Voluntary Separation Packages to over 1,000 employees in the diocese, with a significant number of older single women, as Long Island struggles with an unprecendented unemployment rate. But have no worries, the Director of Religious Ed is welcome to continue to serve as a volunteer if she so desires!
Meanwhile, the diocese has a significant financial surplus in addition to assets (such as hundreds of acres of valuable land surrounding the diocesan seminary in Huntington) -- but it will cling its riches . . .truly woe to you that are poor! woe to you!
Bravo and blessings, beyond words bravo, to Fr. Ed in Medforn, NY, who bravely and publicly shared his concerns of conscience over this latest move by Bishop Murphy.
Very good article, as always,
Very good article, as always, Sr. Joan. I cannot help but think about the 21st Roman Inquisition of Religious Nun's and Monk's in the United States...is this Rome's way of taking the light off of Ireland and the United States, Bishops turning their heads and just moving pedophile priests from parish to parish? Yes, there is a large guly growing between the people and the Catholic Church. I for one, have little to no respect for The Roman Catholic Church, and I am an ex-nun! I do believe that Christianity as it follows Jesus is a living and growing Organism, and THAT is what ROME fears, they are not willing to give up their DOGMATIC POWER AND MONEY both.
I tire of commentators
I tire of commentators equally faulting a right and a wrong position so they can pride themselves as being fair-minded and balanced. Chittister wrote: "... it may be that the love affair between the people and the church is on very rocky ground; one side is not hearing the other and the gulf is growing wider every day." One side IS hearing the other and "the people" are not contributing to "gulf growing wider."
Thank you Sr.Joan for having
Thank you Sr.Joan for having the courage to speak up about the social injustices, lack of taking ownership, confessing and "repenting" within the leadership our inistitution the RC Church.
Hi Joan and Fellow Members of
Hi Joan and Fellow Members of our Faith Community.
Several years ago (1995), on a popular tv programme, here in Ireland, I asked of the Bishops and Clergy atending th show, "If our Lord was to return today, would He say "Come oh blessed of my Father" or would He say something else? No one on the night or since has offerd me a direct answer to that question. But I believe the various reports and the responses or lack of responses says a lot to all of us. What do you think Jesus is saying right now? What is He saying to you? I am not sure I am comfortable with what I believe is being said to me about my participation in this Community, at this time....! Peace and Joy in these difficult times to all of us.
It is hard to believe that
It is hard to believe that they are surprised at the reaction of the people. This fact alone tells a story. The male dominated power hungry authority are out of step with the people and cannot lead anymore.
This June I was in Ireland
This June I was in Ireland vacationing and was impressed with the TV and newspaper coverage regarding thr Ryan report on the clerical abuses. An editorial in the county Clare paper was the most in depth personal description of what the author thought was missing in the report. This person was a survivor in his late 60's and his article stated that the religious orders admitted young teenage boys into there congregations. These boys were given a whip to flagellate themselves when having sexual thoughts. As these boys became the brothers and priests, they purified the young students by doing the whipping and sexually abusing them. The religious orders had created the perfect pedophile storm with the sadomasochism they practiced in the name of God. As a clinician I understand, and I hope the perpetrators and their enablers are held responsible. The Church oppressed on all levels and is not only spiritually responsible, but should pay legally as well.
dear Joan much much more
dear Joan much much more need be said. Who will protect the protector of protectors of pedophile priests? Is there enough rope to whip them off the temple? or are there enough mill-stones to go around. Perhaps ONE mill-stone will do. Or will we hear the crowds crying "subito santo" as in the case of the former mother of all protectors?
James Joyce in his fiction,
James Joyce in his fiction, addressed this problem in his own way, exposing some of the abuses and the treatment of women and children in Ireland especially in short stories DUBLINERS and in his novel ULYSSES which was published in 1904. Joyce was a native Dubliner and was self-exiled to Europe as a young man and never returned to Ireland except to visit.
"... and the gulf is growing
"... and the gulf is growing wider every day." Dear Joan, it's not only where you stand. As in Ireland, so in the USA and in Europe and in Australia and so on and so on. The gulf widens globally. On top of this Cardinal Rode's gaffe pointing to religious vocations from Africa, Asia and the Philipines being somewhat inferior in quality to those from ??????? And on top of both of these is the frenzied attempt to "sanctify" rituals and sacramentaries in English-language countries by twisting the life out of them. The gulf really widens!
Thank you Sr Joan, my hope (I
Thank you Sr Joan, my hope (I had an Irish mother) is that amidst the ashes of Ireland in the North, and in the South because of the church, there will again arise that indomitable spirit, that has taken the Irish to the 4 corners of the world, where their impact is still being felt.
Take an example; in a devastatingly poor district in the Eastern Cape here in South Africa, just shacks, heat and dust and the Aids disease, three Sisters of Mercy, (2 Irish one English) work with danger, disease, daily abuse and lack. It is difficult to sit and talk over a nice cup of coffee, they are just too busy. The singing at Sunday mass has to be experienced, one meets the face of Christ there.
We have a domestic
We have a domestic example:
There are encounters in which, without great effort on both sides, communication, however desirable, is not possible.
The LCWR continues to blockade meaninful dialogue with survivors of sexual abuse by their constituents. The survivors reach out again and again, and are again and again met with "not the time or the place" sorts of responses, along with outright denials that there is or ever was a problem.
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