Without monasticism, Protestants miss out on community

Attached ....the quote of Soren Kierkegaard on the dedication page of An Infinity of Little Hours by Nancy Klein Maguire....Of this there is no doubt, our age and Protestantism may need the monastery again, or wish it were there.
The "monastery" is an essential dialectical element in Christianity. We therefore need it out there like a navigation buoy at sea in order to see where we are, even though I myself would not enter it. But if there really is true Christianity in every generation, there must also be individuals who have this need...

What you continue to fail to grasp - and what so many on this site fail to grasp - is that woman can minister within Catholicism; they cannot be priests, however. You, like so many here, equate the ministry of a pastor in Presbyterianism to the priesthood. The equation simply doesn't exist, despite some superficial similarities.

Woman in Catholicism can and do anything and everything you do as a minister: They counsel, they preach, they feed, they comfort, they visit, they teach, they preach, they nurse, they pray, they are administrators, etc. They can do anything a Presbyterian minister can do.

What the Church teaches woman are ontologically incapable of is confecting the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, Confirmation, Anointing of the Sick and Holy Orders. Yes, many people on this site wish that were not the case. Unfortunately, the Church is amply clear on the matter. What is also clear, is that you, and so many here, continue to fail to understand and/or accept that difference. OK. We all know the Reformation took place and people continue to disagree with the Church.

It might be helpful if Bill Tammeus explored the Benedictine Abbey at Three Rivers Michigan. They are an Episcopal Church order of Benedictines who have retreats for everyone. Since they are Anglican, they do not require that those who come for retreats be Catholic. I think a Presbyterian would be quite at home with these monks. This abbey has been around for quite some time. Many protestants and Catholics go to this abbey for retreats. They are famous for their inclusive theology. There are hundreds of religious communities in the Episcopal Church. Many have been around for nearly two hundred years.

Well, we Episcopalians have long had both male and female religious. Our monastic communities are an essential part of our faith and practice.

It may take a "small c catholic" to point out to Catholics what they have in their tradition and perhaps fail to appreciate.

....and without Mass, Protestants miss out on Christs Body.
"Long to be served by a female priests" Your having a laugh. The nuns in school were bad enough!

Dear Bill,
I so appreciated your recent column and warm understanding of the monastic tradition within Catholicism. As a convert to Catholicism, I am always aware of the ways in which this "new", old tradition resonates with me, and also the ways in which it can feel constricting. I'm guessing you have already written about this issue, but one of the most profound differences I find--between being Protestant and being Catholic--is one's understanding of Mary. Mary is such an important figure to us--along with the saints--and her wide blessing can reach the cranky interstices of life in a way that is quite special.
Thanks again,
Annie

Sorry, Bill, there is no longing for female priests. Tradition is what we are and what you long for.

Just as the Protestant Reformers found reasons to dislike or condemn monasticism, some modern Protestants (including the author it appears) tend to romanticize it. As an Anglican who read the Kathleen Norris book, and mindful that we have some small monasteries ourselves, I'm in the middle on its alleged value. I do know that those (mostly self-described traditionalist Catholics) who previously objected to Mr. Tammeus saying anything about Roman Catholic order and theology will likely remain silent now. I know from personal experience the quickest way to start an argument is for a non-RC to say anything critical about RC practices, and the quickest way to ingratiate oneself is to praise to high heaven an RC practice or institution.

My wife recently spent several weeks at an Episcopal convent begun by a woman she met while studying at the Shalem Institute. As I age, all children gone, I wish I had the opportunity for spiritual community. Being married, Protestant and living in Arizona makes it unlikely.

Sorry Murtheol, there truly is longing for female priests. Perhaps not by you, but by many. Some cradle Catholics harp on "tradition" forgetting that all Christians come from the same tradition up until the "break" from the parts of that "tradition" which were not Christian, nor good. We as Roman Catholics have for too long harbored the "we're better than you are" attitude to our own determent, or as Richard Rohr said "‘This obsession with being right and having the whole truth . . . .'" and ". . . in Jesus you don’t see a presentation of ideas. You see an invitation to join a movement and the actions of that movement.”

What many Catholic religious orders are now missing, following the shrinkage in numbers and the "do your own thing" mind-set of the last two decades, is "community." So many religious live alone, or with another member or two of their order as a matter of convenience but as ships that pass in the night and essentially as room-mates, that much of what attracted some to religous life is now gone.

Morning and evening prayers and meals shared with 8 or a dozen or more brethren formed part of the backbone of what was religious life three decades ago.

To a great extent that is gone other than in those who reside in motherhouses or other headquarters.

Indeed, it's probably fair to say that most Catholic religious today get their sense of "community" from the laity in the localities of their ministries.

I do not have the 'longing' spoken of here.

I must say that the Catholic Church claims less authority than any other Christian Church in the world. That is why she is so conservative. Protestant churches feel free to change the deposit of Faith (denying the sin of homosexual actions or contraception for example). The Catholic Church is simply handing on the Faith by defending the deposit of Truth built upon the apostles.

Monasticism is an expensive affectation; it costs a great deal to keep these people in poverty. There are other, more useful, things to do with money than having people wear odd clothing, live apart from the rest of the world without having to pay a penny in rent or for food or for utilities.
If this is "poverty", no wonder your "chastity" is what it is.

Jim R. You stated that "the Church teaches woman are ontologically incapable of is confecting the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, Confirmation, Anointing of the Sick and Holy Orders. Yes, many people on this site wish that were not the case. Unfortunately, the Church is amply clear on the matter."

Let's be clear. The "Church" which made the decision about the ontological incapability of females to be a priest was comprised of an elite group of males.

Which makes the Catholics and the Orthodox and most Black/Hispanic churches ridiculous when they claim that their invisible friend forbids women to wear the special clothes and talk to the air.

Dear Bill and all,
I'm rather amazed at the tenor of the comments so far, but that's not why I'm writing. While admittedly small, Protestants do have some monastic places of their own. Closest to the Presbyterian persuasion, I suppose, is the Iona Community in Scotland, which is ecumenical. And of course, Taize in France. But there is also the legacy of Fr. Arthur Kreinheder, a Lutheran pastor who founded St. Augustine's House in Oxford, Michigan. It is now affiliated with a Lutheran monastery in Sweden; and there are some in Germany as well. Last I checked, Martin Luther counts as a real Protestant.
As Katherine Norris has pointed out, many RC Benedictine houses accept Protestants as oblates; and the Episcopalian examples have already been mentioned.
-- Mike C.

Dear Bill, Perhaps we should re-examine monasticism. Many Orders of Brothers and Nuns have re-written what their Founders established to the point that Monasticism no longer exists in many Orders. Much of the change is due to Superiors and Prioresses modernizing. They convince those that are living within the Community that God did not intend for them to live apart from others in the world. They take jobs outside the monestary, join organizations having nothing to do with their Community, participate in worldly projects, and in general have changed away from the Charters approved by the Vatican because the Hierarchy does not know what they are doing. Then all of them wonder where all the novitiates have gone to. They laugh at the structure established by Jesus Christ because they know so much more than their Founders. Surely they say " we were not intended to live such austere lives when there is so much suffering going on out there ". So they changed as though the same suffering was not taking place at the time that their Orders were founded. This does not make any sense and will continue to make less sense as time goes on.