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PDF versionGiving thanks, asking forgiveness for bin Laden's death
by Bill Tammeus on May. 04, 2011
Just as I brooded about the pernicious life of Osama bin Laden, so have I also been brooding about his recent death.
And what I now understand is that my initial reaction to the news -- in concert with the jubilant reactions of millions of Americans -- needs a harsh, corrective word.
I wish it were otherwise, but I confess that I shared in the joy at the death of this human being. At one level, my joy was quite reasonable and defensible because bin Laden now will be unable to murder or order the murders of any more people, the way he orchestrated the deaths of nearly 3,000 people on 9/11, including my own nephew, a passenger on the first plane to strike the World Trade Center.
I seek -- and feel I need -- no forgiveness for feeling both relief and joy because I acknowledge that happy fact.
But I find it distressing about me and others that whether we actually did it, we felt like dancing in the streets over someone’s death. Indeed, I found the news videos of people celebrating as if this were a sports championship both discordant and disorienting, though revelatory of the human condition.
What I was forced to acknowledge, yet again, is that humanity is so twisted up with sin and suffering that sometimes we come to this -- joy over a bullet to a man’s head.
This joy showed us once again why we cannot save ourselves -- even from ourselves. It showed us why we need a savior, someone who has overcome not just death but also our misplaced elation when it happens to certain people. It reveals again how far outside the mythic gates of Eden we live.
The author of Proverbs 24:17 foresaw this when he wrote, “Rejoice not when your enemy falls, and when he stumbles, let not your heart exult.” (Although in the Psalms and elsewhere I find evidence that others in the Bible paid no attention to this admonition.)
It’s only when, in response to such biblical advice, we ask, “Why not rejoice?” that we come face to face with our own dissoluteness and our need for forgiveness and reconciliation.
In the Reformed Tradition of Protestant Christianity, where I find my spiritual home, there’s a doctrine called “The Total Depravity of Humankind.” It’s really not as awful as it sounds in that it doesn’t deny that humans are capable of some good. But it does say that we are radically infected by sin and can’t do anything about it by ourselves. Which is why we need a savior.
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That’s the condition in which we find ourselves when we watch Americans singing and dancing because members of our military shot someone to death -- though for sure the man they killed had committed profound evil that created terrific wounds in the hearts of families like mine, not to mention the hearts of all Americans.
Life is precious. My faith teaches me that killing anyone, except in self-defense, is not permissible. (Which is one reason I oppose capital punishment.) Even when we kill someone in self-defense -- and I think that shooting bin Laden might be contained within that category -- we dare not celebrate the death.
Perhaps you recall seeing video of some people in the Middle East, especially children, dancing for joy at the news of 9/11. And perhaps you remember how heartsick that made you feel.
I wish everyone who gathered in a flag-waving frenzy in front of the White House and elsewhere at news of bin Laden’s death had remembered that.
Perhaps it might have driven people not into the streets to dance and shout “USA! USA!” but, rather, to their knees -- to give thanks that a man capable of so much evil no longer can commit it, but also to pray for forgiveness for cheering the death of another human being the way we’d cheer a World Series win.
[Bill Tammeus, a Presbyterian elder and former award-winning Faith columnist for The Kansas City Star, writes the daily "Faith Matters" blog for The Star’s Web site and a monthly column for The Presbyterian Outlook. His latest book, co-authored with Rabbi Jacques Cukierkorn, is They Were Just People: Stories of Rescue in Poland During the Holocaust. E-mail him at wtammeus@kc.rr.com.]
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I almost agree with you Bill.
I almost agree with you Bill. But... do you remember the Palstinians doing the happy dance in the street after the news of 9-11 broke? A guy I worked with was working at King faisal Memorial in Riyahd. A number of Arabs come up to him to say what a great day for Islam and the Arabic World.
I would say to you, Sandy,
I would say to you, Sandy, that while we may have the same knee-jerk celebratory reaction on hearing the news of Bin Laden's death, as Christians we are held - and should hold ourselves, as Bill does, to a higher standard. As Americans, we are else obliged to uphold the rule of law, even if others do not. Personally, despite popular opinion, I think Bin Laden should have been subdued, taken into custody, and put on trial for crimes against humanity ... not murdered in a ninja-style sneak attack.
Your sister in Christ,
Lydia in Phoenix
To attempt to subdue him was
To attempt to subdue him was not worth the risk of another human life. Giving him the opportunity to destroy more lives--No.
The thought of giving him a podium from which to spew his hatred and rally his followers doesn't bear thinking about.
What? - People spew hatred
What? - People spew hatred every day, all over the world - including the USA. It's just that he hated us.
And how to you supposed this
And how to you supposed this to be achieved with the information that was had?? Unfortunately, his example will be imitated by other hateful Muslims for ever after.
You're right. And the
You're right. And the commandos should have had milk and cookies for everyone.
Sandy, please keep in mind
Sandy, please keep in mind that you are talking about some, not all. I believe that it is very important to make that distinction in terms of understanding with what we are dealing. And, as a Christian, I believe to not do can be bearing false witness, as what you say may technically be correct, but the impression it leaves, deliberate or not, does mislead. Also, you don't mention it, so perhaps you have considered it, I don't know, but do consider what the gospel response would be to those who you mention in your post. Christ gave us a different way of responding; different from those that came before, different than what society says and often different than our very own human instincts. None-the-less that is what Christ asks of us. We can't be a follower and ignore this.
Peace and Prayers,
John David
"And, as a Christian, I
"And, as a Christian, I believe to not do can be bearing false witness, as what you say may technically be correct, but the impression it leaves, deliberate or not, does mislead."
That is beyond unfair. To even *suggest* that Sandy deliberately misled anyone is uncalled for. Remove the beam from your own eye.
In light of your response, I
In light of your response, I have reread Sandy's comment. I still stand by my post. I believe that, as her post is written, it does exactly that. And if you are going to accuse me, please show how I have shown that I have a beam in my eye in bearing any kind of false witness?
You said the following: "And,
You said the following:
"And, as a Christian, I believe to not do can be bearing false witness, as what you say may technically be correct, but the impression it leaves, deliberate or not, does mislead."
With the "deliberate or not" formulation, you are suggesting she might be driven by a malign motive--namely, she may have been offering a deliberately misleading impression. What is your evidence to suggest Sandy has any intent to mislead?
You have offered none. If I were to say "Mr. David, deliberately or not, your statement gives a false impression" you would have ample grounds for objection, correct? I don't know you from Adam. As far as I know, you've never tried to deliberately mislead anyone. What gives me the right to suggest otherwise?
That is precisely what you've done with Sandy's comment. Had you limited yourself to saying that her words were imprecise and could be misread, I would have had no objection. It's the "deliberately" that invokes judgment of motives.
DRPrice, You didn´t mention
DRPrice, You didn´t mention it in your response, but it was stated that it may not have been deliberate. I think that is important. If someone is giving examples of the behavior and attitudes of a few, with the intention to indicate that it is the behavior of all, I don´t think it is unfair to call it misleading or even bearing false witness.
Thank you Marygrace. There is
Thank you Marygrace. There is active bearing of false witness and then there is a more subtle, passive way of doing this. The deliberate leading towards a conclusion that is not true, I believe, is the passive form (something many partisan pundits often deliberately do). I am bothered by this, particularly when it addresses a group of people as, somehow being "less than", unworthy or "the other". I think we, as Christian, must be very careful of not falling into such a trap and are called to a higher and more honest standard. Our Lord and our Church teaches us to care for the dignity of each person; to show mercy and forgiveness to the guilty and not to falsely accuse. This is not an easy thing to do and the many rationalizations we use to divide God's creation can be very seductive and are often hidden in what appears as logical, rational arguments. And, yes, I did mention that maybe it was not deliberate and perhaps Sandy meant something else from her post, but, if so, i did not see any other meaning.
Yours in Christ,
John David
What you have done is to
What you have done is to suggest malice from what is at worst an overgeneralization based upon an undisputed fact--namely, that a significant number (but by no means all) of Palestinians celebrated the slaughter of 9/11. Now you are reading into it some unconscious dehumanizatoin of "the other," which is a remarkable bit of soul-reading. For all you know, Sandy donates to the Mercy Corps, which does relief work in Gaza.
If I were to say "Deliberate or not, you are willing to ascribe irrational-to-malign motives to people whose statements you disagree with," would this be false witness? I would say "Definitely." Following your argument here, I don't know how you could come to the same conclusion.
Indeed, I saw that, but as I
Indeed, I saw that, but as I said in my responses to Mr. David, it doesn't help. "You might not be a deliberate liar when you say that, but..." isn't an improvement. In the absence of evidence that Sandy has a history of nasty generalizations, charity requires us to presume good motives lay behind the imprecise language she used. Not that I'm the best at that, but that's clearly what we're supposed to do as Christians. It's no more complicated than that.
"Son of man, say to the
"Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of them. How then can we live?”’ Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’" Ezekiel 33:10-11
Two"wrongs" do not make a "right".
Bravo! Well done, sir.
Bravo! Well done, sir.
Bill: I felt for you and
Bill: I felt for you and your family when bin Laden was killed. As I read this commentary, I realized that it is consistent with what I have found to be your religious point of view through the years I have read your blog. You did not disappoint. There is a saying that "Often, God is in our second thoughts." Realizing that about myself is comforting and encouraging. The celebratory reaction of some was not surprising. Feelings are what they are. And then there is the time for solemn reflection of what all this says about ourselves. You did that very well. The good news is that although we cannot save ourselves, we don't have to. We have a Savior.
In spite of my experience and
In spite of my experience and 76 years, I still feel utter dismay at the idea of intentionally killing another human being; and then feeling joy at understanding the result.
Osama. Guilty. Unborn
Osama. Guilty.
Unborn children. Thousands killed in your Presbyterian hospitals. Innocent
You are uneasy about the death of the guilty. At the same time you suppport killing the weak and innocent. And youve got plenty of company here at the NCR. Its so perfectly Nietchistic.
My cousin, Father Mychal
My cousin, Father Mychal Judge, was also killed on 9/11. He died ministering to a fallen firefighter. When Osama Bin Laden was killed I thought about what Mychal might have to say.
He would have understood why some might celebrate the death of one who had inflicted great evil upon them and their loved ones. However, I am certain that the rejoicing over Bin Laden's death would have deeply disturbed him.
Who cares what Mychal Judge
Who cares what Mychal Judge would have thought?
I think, perhaps, the Lord
I think, perhaps, the Lord might.
The Palestinians did not
The Palestinians did not dance a "happy dance" after 9/11, as one blogger wrote. The footage in question was from another event, unrelated to 9/11. That bit of disinformation was debunked long ago.
But worse than that: one's own immorality cannot be excused by the immorality of another. Any premise to the contrary is a disturbing fantasy for any man who pretends to be rational or moral. It paves the way for injustice and even atrocity. Hitler used the very same reasoning to kill millions of Jews.
Actually, yes, a significant
Actually, yes, a significant number of Palestinians did celebrate 9/11. The alleged "debunking" is debunked by Snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp
Enough celebrating happened that the Palestinian Authority threatened journalists who recorded them--again, see the Snopes link.
Your point about excusing immorality by pointing to another's is valid. But calling it a "disturbing fantasy for any man who pretends to be rational or moral" ignores the human condition, and is rhetorical overkill.
The death of my son on 9/11
The death of my son on 9/11 and the death of Bin Laden on 4/1 resolves nothing between humans of different cultures and that's the sadness in all of this.
Osama Bin Laden had to be
Osama Bin Laden had to be caught and punished. Like any criminal, he needed to be found. We would not like to think that someone could kill in our town and "get away with it." I like this article because it reminds us that death is always sobering, and we are not the judge of people souls. However, it is politically necessary and morally right to render justice.
I believe that President Obama understood the situation, and that he has done the right thing in sending in the Navy Seals. Let God be the judge of the right or wrong of the death. I'm sure that if he had surrendered he would have been brought back alive. He would not have surrendered.
The pictures of cheering
The pictures of cheering crowds after Osama Bin Laden's death was announced were embarrassing and distressing. They reminded me of similar pictures from another part of the world after 9/11. While I am grateful that he can't harm anyone anymore (though those inspired by him can), I would have preferred seeing him captured and brought to justice. Violence begets more violence.
After looking at pictures of
After looking at pictures of the dirty hole where he and his bodyguards and wife had been living - incommunicado and probably fearful for several years, it seemed to me he was already in a hell of his own making where he probably would have stayed until he died. Who knows?
I too was troubled by the
I too was troubled by the jubilation that night. I have no qualms about killing bin Laden, or even with the manner in which it was done; for a man so dangerous and evil, it would have been immoral to allow mercy to hinder his destruction. But the jubilation seemd unseemly and ungracious; I thought very highly of Obama when he gallantly said, "There's no need to spike the football." I found myself remembering what I think to be the best definition of a gentleman:
"The forbearing use of power does not only form a touchstone, but the manner in which an individual enjoys certain advantages over others is a test of a true gentleman.
"The power which the strong have over the weak, the employer over the employed, the educated over the unlettered, the experienced over the confiding, even the clever over the silly--the forbearing or inoffensive use of all this power or authority, or a total abstinence from it when the case admits it, will show the gentleman in a plain light
"The gentleman does not needlessly and unnecessarily remind an offender of a wrong he may have committed against him. He cannot only forgive, he can forget; and he strives for that nobleness of self and mildness of character which impart sufficient strength to let the past be but the past. A true man of honor feels humbled himself when he cannot help humbling others."
-found among the papers of General Robert E. Lee
Jesus told Peter to put back
Jesus told Peter to put back his sword, and warned that those who live by the sword die by the sword. One avenged death sows the seed of another just as one war sows the seed of another. Hitler, who is responsible for millions of deaths, killed himself but not without several attempts on his life. I would not have been anything but relieved had the assassination attempts been successful for it would bring about the end of that war which I lived through during the first three years of my life. Initially, I was relieved to hear that bin Laden was dead, in part because then that war in Afghanistan would come to an end as well, for both our troops and perhaps the people of Afghanistan. I did not feel compelled to rejoice over the death of bin Laden. I might have rejoiced that Hitler was gone.\, especially if I was a young kid. I would like to think that I could follow the non-violent way of Jesus, but have to admit that I could probably only do that with an abundance of grace.
The hypocricy of this
The hypocricy of this "Christianian" is very visible. Revenge can not be hiden. all this Abrahamist" religion are the same - Judaism an eye for an eye etc,,,
allah au bark Only jesus saves etc.. eetc.. at the time of truth .. we are ALL sinners./
antonio
Sure, Bill. Just like Osama
Sure, Bill. Just like Osama bin Laden spent the past ten years on his knees facing Mecca begging ALLAH to forgive him for the mass murder of 3,000 unsuspecting Americans on 9/11.
I have to agree with Andy Rooney and Obama on this one:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7365400n&tag=related;photovideo\
It is a time to give thanx.
Memo to SHRUB:
http://www.amazon.com/Shrub-Short-Happy-Political-George/dp/0375757147/r...
Your Weapons of Mass DECEPTION vis a vis Saddam Hussein wasted years, lives and billions. Of course, Cheney and his Halliburton cronies reaped the dividends and are still laughing all thw way to the bank.
That's a smart answer to a
That's a smart answer to a tirkcy question
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