Forget about sainthood, let's worry about ministry

Has John XXIII been sainted? Among Popes, he's my hero.

This practice of canonization hangs on because of its cult mystique which attracts a certain ilk of believers. It should be radically revised or eliminated, in my opinion. It favors popes and other hierarchs in terms of the number of canonizations over the centuries. It's too expensive and biased in its current process, according to many believers.

Many educated believers don't pay much attention to it anymore.

Thank you. I agree with you. the pomp and circumstance and the money spent for Rome to put on the show it does to elevate people who they say characterize humility poverty and service is totally shameful. It seems now that sainthood is not based on miracles attributed tothe person, on the totality of their lives but on popularity, (John Paul II). He took any semblance of sainthood out of the proceedings. However, he may have made it a common achievement since in his lifetime he found so many to be saints and celebrated such. I hope I am one of the unsung saints of my time, as I try to live a life of prayer, humility and generous service to others. Gospel maybe?

To talk, almost in the same breath, about the ordination of gays and The cause of the Saints, just says it all, really.Quite obviously you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

Thanks for this, but ultimately, it does not matter at all what Protestants think of saints, the canonization process, or Church doctrine at all. The Roman Catholic Church is blessed by God with the fullness of revealed truth; it is not for the Roman Catholic Church to compromise or moderate her teachings, for to do so would be substituting half-truths and falsehoods for the full truth, it is rather for Protestant denominations to conform themselves and their teaching to the truth contained in the Roman Catholic Church.

To borrow an axiom from the Roman Empire, ecumenically speaking, "all roads lead to Rome".

I agree with you!

Dear Bill, Important as your point about canonisation is I'm more disappointed that you like so many Catholics and other Christians have fallen into the trap of referring to the others as NON Catholics. How long more will we allow, nay even support, the use of that dreadful term Non Catholics, Non Christian and even Non Ordained. WAKE UP! What am I if I'm a Non Something. Surely there are only laity and SOME who are Ordained. Is it possible to contemplate a society of Catholics and other Christians or Protestants and Catholics and to complete the point Christians and other believers or believers of other faiths. Perhaps the media would exercise some editorial education in the matter of putting their writers right.

Our culture constantly shows us images of sex and money and tells us that this is what it means to be a successful person. The Church attempts to counter such skewed values (think Charlie Sheen) by proposing the images of men and women who have managed to live holy and wholesome lives in spite of our culture. Traditionally, the Church permits the names of such people to be placed in the Canon of the Mass (ergo "canon-ized)so they will be remembered and, hopefully, imitated. In this day of distorted imagery -- much of it coming from within the Church itself -- I think it's important to reflect on the fact that people like us have managed to live gospel values in spite of the temptation, often endorsed by Catholic entities, to become just like everyone else.

Bill Tammeus, there are millions of faithful Catholics, who are as much disgusted by the declarations to "sainthood" as you are. You are much too polite in your assessment. As a long time member of this church I have the luxury to be more direct.

Oh, we understand how the process is working in the Vatican. However, we also know that it is highly political whom to canonize, and for what purpose. It is pure and simple politics! A waste of precious resources, that should be done away with as much as the empirical pomp, and obscene ceremonial attires, and those 20-40'000.- decorators outfits for Cardinals and bishops. Neither is there an excuse for the decadent lifestyles of a great number of our potentates, with their chauffeur driven limousines, palatial residences, posh vacation digs, and country club memberships. Do you know, that millions have left the church because of the scandal of this waste for an overbearing facade? These are comparable to the religious leadership of the time of our Lord.

It is the clergy down in the trenches, with the nuns, and faithful volunteers who do the work Jesus is calling us in the gospels, not the present top leadership. A church claiming to have the "fullness of truth" and the only road to salvation, should have a leadership following entirely in the sandals of Jesus, to be believable.

Thanks for bringing up the subject.

The sooner our hierarchy can move away from the many expressions of its narcissistic cult of personality, the sooner they can start to spend the lion's share of its time resources and energy on the real business of church - ministry and spirituality. Fat chance with this spoilt group of pampered men who put themselves before the safety of our children, the sacramental life of the church, and a litany of other glaring needs.

Martha, you are right on. How can we campaign against this other than with our feet as we march out of the Church?

Why do we keep having Bill Tammeus write here? He REGULARY bashes Catholics on his blog but tones it down about the time one of his articles is supposed to appear.

The Kansas City Star doesn't have this guys column anymore, so why does the Reporter?

I generally agree that the RC sainthood process is flawed, skewed to serving up popes, religious founders and pet causes. But, a means to recognize and remember exceptionally good people of faith is necessary. I wonder how many people in the Anglican communion know much about Edith Cavell? She was by anyone's definition a great saint--a light unto the world. But her fame peaked after her 1915 execution and her memory is all but erased. A formal sort of recognition--call it whatever one wishes--would be a good way to perpetuate the names and deeds of extraordinary people who were faithful to the Gospel unto death. We needs witnesses and examples because the saints are tributaries that flow back to the source, Jesus. I can tolerate the Catholic canonization process as long as it produces a Therese of Lisieux every so often.

Dear Bill Tammeus, Interesting that you would refer to a quote from one of Fr. Richard McBrien's books to affirm a point. Bill, you know that we humans are a weak motely bunch needing pick-me-ups on a daily basis. What better way than to investigate the lives of outstanding individuals who have been heroic in their lives and deserve Sainthood? There are many lives which have been inspired by reading Lives of the Saints written by many different authors. To start a list of names without listing all would not be an Act of Charity and therefore I will refrain from doing so. This part of the Vatican should not be dropped in my opinion but rather expanded. We earthlings need all the good examples we can get our hands on.

The whole saint-business is "purely(?)" for political reasons serving the institutional agendum — God alone discerns true spirit.

Some saints have realized inner spiritual union with God -- like Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and Francis of Assisi. Other saints have been proclaimed such merely because they were killed for being Catholic, a tradition very like that of fundamentalist Muslims. Finally, a large group of saints (the type favored by John Paul II) have been proclaimed saints because someone was cured of disease by praying to them even though, as Jesus taught, it is the faith of the prayer, not the merits of the one prayed to, that makes miracles. John Paul II also created saints based upon political reasons, e.g., ethnic or national identity. The amount of money spent to honor them -- and by extension the religious order or group sponsoring them --has also played a big factor. I believe saints should be limited to the first category. Holiness should be the criterion, not parochial religious affiliation, or "miracles," or the amount of money spent, or the supposed need to create ethnic Catholic heroes.

Wow Bill Tammeus, excellent points! I hope you will be a regular columnist for NCR. We Catholics need to be more friendly to THE OTHER Christians.

The folks above who chose to bash you, may have overlooked how honest you were about some Protestant failings.

SAINT QUESTION
What do you think of this answer: Thomas Merton wondered if some other NON-Catholics could also be saints? That's a cool solution. I vote for St. Martin Luther King!

And as a dear Catholic friend taught me, a lot of the older male Catholic saints were frankly sexist (condescending towards women) and in today's terms--just plain unenlightened on salient points.

HOMOSEXUAL QUESTION
Some of the other bashing Catholics above may not know that many homosexuals have suffered ostracism, depression, and resultant suicides, especially homosexual teens. This is heartbreaking.

MONEY QUESTION
Bill you are undeniably right, ministry to the poor has got to be our higher priority. What does stewardship mean? Of the poor? Of the earth? Of our human rights? Bill your article was one of my very favorite in NCR in 2010 and 2011!!

Par Excellence Bill! Super important points! Yay Protestants! We Catholics need to get a life, and quit bashing our fellow dedicated Christians.

Bill, we could use somebody like you as a Bishop. Heck I would trade a certain Cardinal I know of, PLUS a Bishop I know of, for you!

Your objections, Bill, remind me of Judas' objections when Mary wiped Jesus' feet with her hair and the perfume. I can hear the words of Jesus to Peter now in response, "Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men."

The history of the Church is a continual conflict between those inside and outside the Church seeking to rob her of the deposit of Truth built upon the apostles. To that end the Catholic Church as the mystical body of Christ can and must do everything in her power to get people to heaven which includes holding up models of holiness for the faithful to emulate.

"Only one thing is needful," Bill, what concern is this of yours? "Did you not know, that I must be about my father's business?"

Any argument that hinges on "...but the money would be better spent on the poor..." always gives me pause and strikes me as a bit too "easy" an argument. It reminds me of Matthew 26:6-13 / Mark 14:3-9 where some of the disciples are indignant at the waste of perfume on Jesus' feet and think the money should have been saved and given to the poor instead. Does Jesus agree with them? Not at all.

There are many things we could do to save money and give to the poor. We could all eliminate our internet connections, sell our computers, and give that money to the poor. In fact, we could sell everything we own and give it to the poor as well. But all this isn't necessarily the best course of action.

Certainly, we have an obligation to help the poor. No one can deny that. The Catholic Church does more for the poor than any other organization on earth. That does not mean, therefore, that we need to spend every available resource on that one ministry. Holding up models of sanctity via the canonization process *is* a ministry, and one that I appreciate.

"Forget about sainthood, let's worry about ministry!" That, folks, is pretty much all you need to know about the National Catholic Fishwrap and its fellow-travellers. By the way, I believe "Forget About Sainthood" is Chapter II in Satan's strategy manual for winning, er, I mean losing souls (a manual that NCR has followed religiously for 40 years). Chapter I of the devil's manual is, "My Debt to The National Catholic Reporter"! It's an homage.

Bill Tammeus is back to bashing Catholics on his blog again today.

He always goes on good behavior about the time his piece on the Reporter comes out, and then he goes back to attacking Catholics.

Today hs is on John Paul II.

The Kansas City Star was fine with letting Tammeus go, so why does the Reporter keep this guy around? He has no special qualifications.

WOW CWG, are you a bishop or higher? With your arrogance I cannot see you anywhere in the pews, only at the top. I keep wondering where in the message of Jesus is even a hint of the importance of much of this nonsense about which too many spend too much.