What do China, Israel, and the Lefebvrites have in common?

The proper term in English for the followers of Archbishop Lefebvre is 'Lefebvrist', corresponding to the French 'Lefebvriste'.

None of the parties involved want any of these matters resolved. They all believe that they have too much to lose.

John - please don't ever think that your contributions are too "insider." Like it or not, it's a big world out there, and it doesn't revolve around the USA. In the real world, where nuclear war, genocide, famine -- even schism -- are all too real, it helps to have someone put our issues in a larger context and remind us that we're called to seek solutions, not slogans. - robert.

I've met some of these priests of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X. They have the following attributes: Masculine, serious, personable (not clericalist like many 'modern day priests'). Interested in saving souls... not necessarily on being popular.

My money is on them being reconciled. As the modernist heresy (which Saint Pius X described in his encyclical) works it's destructive minimalistic way through the Catholic Church in Ireland, England, France, Germany and so many other places (ahh oh yes and in Boston)... Benedict will do all that he can to see these good men regularized.

And when that happens it will be a game changer in all diocese. A rising tide lifts all boats.

vty Robert Fox, Long Island, NY

“You think we’re in error, even if personally we’re not sinners because we’re in a state of invincible ignorance. You also say that error has no rights. Yet if you really believe that, what are you doing here talking to us?”

In order to ameliorate your ignorance, thus rendering it provably vincible, and a matter of will, not ignorance.

Obviously.

Is this really the kind of question Mr. Allen supposes constitutes a "gotcha" moment?

Sheesh.

Rule #2 Be respectful. Do not atack the writer etc. Why is this a one-way street? Calling the Society of St. Pius X "Lefebvrites" as shown in this article certainly screams "disrespecful". You guys are running scared and fear if the SSPX one day gets international jurisdiction it will be the demise of all those liberal-soaked Catholics intent on "changing" Christ's Holy Church...which began with attempting to replace the Liturgy with a new Liturgy non-Catholics could "accept". What has it accomplished? Take off the blinders and look at the state of the Church worldwide!! Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Thank you Lord for the warning.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was French (he was born in Lille), not Swiss. The International Seminary of St. Pius X was in Econe (Valais), Switzerland.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was not Swiss, he was French. He was born in Lille, France. The seminary he established, International Seminary of St. Pius X, was in Econe (Valais), Switzerland.

SSPX thinks that the Church made a wrong turn--and the fruits bear that out. However, SSPX thinks that wrong turn was made, partially, at Vatican II and insists upon the right and necessity to speak out on the subject. The Vatican has been willing to permit those who disagree with portions of Vatican II to be in full communion, but only if they remain silent. It appears that even if a group agrees that it was a valid Council, and taught no error concerning faith and morals, they also may not speak out against perceived prudential errors.

Another problem is that FSSP can only go into diocese with the permission of the bishops: SSPX is in a lot of places precisely because the bishop is very opposed to tradition. So, would SSPX be allowed to go anywhere, without regard to the local Ordinary, even though FSSP cannot?

If things are so hopeless, why are we still meeting? There are many other things to spend your time doing. I would like to see the Society of Pius X come back into the fold. Having more traditional Catholics will only add to the beautiful diversity in the Church. I will pray for these meetings, but there does come a time in everyone's life when we realize that even with our best efforts, some things just aren't meant to be.

Sir,

You use the term “Lefebvrites” derisively. Archbishop Lefebvre was a giant in the Church before any of this even happened, and more so now. Many in high places throughout the Church hold him very high regard. I suggest you read David A. White's book "The Horn of the Unicorn" to gain some insight.

Just to set some things straight, SSPX was never in schism. please look up the word in the Catholic Encyclopedia. The SSPX has never denounced the primacy of Peter. The Holy Father made it a point in his recent letters that these priests are Catholics. If they were in schism, how could they not now be since there has been no formal reconciliation as would be required of schismatics?

All that the SSPX wants is to practice the faith according to traditional with sound doctrine. Why does this bother you so?

Yours in Christ,
Jim

The SSPX contends that the Vatican II teachings dealing with religious liberty and salvation for non-Catholic Christians are NOT in accord with Traditional Catholic teachings on said subjects. As a non-Catholic who has studied Catholicism and Church history very much, I regretfully must admit that the SSPX would appear to be correct in their contention.

The Swiss headquaters of the SSPX is in Rickenbach.

In Ecône there is the Swiss seminary.

The headquaters of the whole society and the residence of Msgr. Fellay is in Menzingen.

I am bi-ritual with the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church and at the Vatican Council, when the Melkite bishops perceived what was afoot with the liturgy of the Latin Rite Church they were a bit shocked. The comment to the Latin Bishops was "we changed the calendar from the Julian to the Gregorian and had a schism. What you are doing will bring about the same and more!"

There is a tremendous amount of pride involved. One thing I noticed about St. Pius X is that they are constantly talking about the errors of the modern church. It seems their a group that talks more about perceived errors than the faith itself, to the point where that has become their identity (although I suppose it always has been). It's funny how a group could claim to be so authentically catholic and yet have no obedience even to the supreme pontiff.

The long drawn-out negotiations between the St Pius X Society and the Vatican demonstrates that conflict is just not associated with the usual liberal suspects looking to water down Church doctrine in the spurious name of the "spirit of Vatican 11". At least with bishop Fellay and his compadres, we are not getting people who want to radically change Church teachings in order to make them conform with worldly, social mores but rather they are advocates for a very traditional(some would say neo-traditional or neo-conservative)understanding of the nature of the Church, doctrine and liturgy.

Their understanding of the Church is fixed on a static, unchanging ecclesial structure which does not engage with the world but rather provides a fortified citadel for those who want to escape from external forces. I agree to some extent with their take on the liturgical changes which were implemented post-Vatican 11. I know that the members of the Society do not see it as an valid Council but the slapdash alterations in terms of linguistic translation and music applied in the Novus Ordo gives credence to a lot of their criticisms.

I do take issue with their understanding of the ecumenical imperative which followed from Vatican 11. I respect their position that the Church should not see dialogue as one of equals but rather as overtures from Mother Church for Her lost children to return. I ask myself would this position have broken through the cold-war attitude which has marked the Catholic/Orthodox Christian relationship for at least 10 centuries or more? I think not. The change in approach which Vatican 11 brought in, vis-a-vis other churches and ecclesial communities, has borne healthy fruit as can be seen in the recent breakthroughs involving Orthodox and Lutheran Christians.