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PDF versionTridentine liturgies being celebrated in Rome
by Thomas C. Fox on Jan. 05, 2010
This from Catholic New Service:
ROME — Top officials from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments will be principal celebrants at Tridentine liturgies during a conference in Rome this week. The Tridentine rite, in use before the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, is also called the extraordinary form of the liturgy.
U.S. Archbishop J. Augustine Di Noia, secretary of the Vatican congregation, will celebrate solemn pontifical vespers and benediction in the extraordinary form at the Church of St. Stephen of the Abyssinians, located inside the Vatican walls, Jan. 6.
On Jan. 7, Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera, prefect of the worship congregation, will celebrate a solemn pontifical Mass in the extraordinary form at the Basilica of St. John Lateran.
The conference is being co-sponsored by the U.S.-based Confraternity of Catholic Clergy and the Australian Confraternity of Catholic Clergy to mark the Year for Priests.
Archbishop Raymond Burke, prefect of the Apostolic Signature, the church’s highest court, will be the main celebrant at the concluding liturgy of the conference Jan. 8. He will celebrate a solemn pontifical Mass in the ordinary — or new – form in St. Peter’s Basilica.
Archbishop Burke celebrated a Mass in the extraordinary form in St. Peter’s Basilica last October
Why can't traditionalists and
Why can't traditionalists and modernists both relax a little and agree to let the two liturgies coexist? Many Episcopal churches offer two rites for the Eucharist each Sunday: Rite I in traditional English and Rite II in contemporary English. Why not allow similar coexistence of the ordinary and extraordinary forms in the Roman Catholic Church?
That is my view also. The
That is my view also. The church is big enough for both one or two ultra-traditionalist parishes and one or two modern parishes in every diocese. But we are talking about Church politics here, and as you read below, most of those pushing for an all-Latin retro return give the my way or the highway routine.
To me I will only go to the modern, moderate to progressive parishes full time. I have watched the old way on YouTube and even on EWTN, and I get absolutely nothing out of it. Latin is just that, Latin, an foreign language which is not needed to understand the mass. The same goes for most Catholics out there, you do it in an language they do not understand and the outreach of the mass is lost.
Eugene, the reason, in my
Eugene, the reason, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with worship. It is about power. It is about factions within the Church, the People of God as defined by Vatican II, and essentially those who oppose what the Holy Spirit guided the Bishops of Vatican 11 to write, and hopefully guide the Church forward.
The reason these two forms will never comfortably co-exist is because powerful factions with the Church think, and no doubt believe sincerely, is that Vat 11 was a mistake. Then they have the audacity to call themselves traditionalists. It is they who are at odds with Vat 11, not the rest of us who try to adhere to the genuine forward-looking Church.
Sacrosanctum Concilium was the first doccument of Vat 11, which indicates to me that the Fathers thought that changing the ordinary form of the liturgy was of the highest importance, yet these self-appointed traditionalists are actually at odds with Tradition.
However, The Holy Spirit will prevail, of that, there is no doubt.
Power mongers beware!
Benedict is 82 and when he
Benedict is 82 and when he goes so will his "reforms of the reform". As another poster said, after the 25 yr conservative ponificate of JPII, who packed the college of cardinals with conservatives, it took many votes and wrangling to elect another conservative, even the ultraliberal Martini was leading for awhile (he recently said he would NEVER celebrate a Mass in latin). So after Benedict's controversial pontificate how long do you think it will take to elect a liberal? Not long at all. So the sclerotic old boys better indulge their fantasies and magna cappa dress up play. We won't have to endure their foolishness in the near future.
JP II packed the college of
JP II packed the college of cardinals with conservatives? Are you kidding me? Scoleric old boys indulging fantasies....I don't think so.I've been attending the TLM for several years now and most of the priests I see celebrating it are in their 30s and 40s.Many young families attend as well.Tradition is picking up momentum in the Church even aside from what's going on in Rome.The "old boys" are guys like Martini.The seminaries that are full are the FSSP,ICK,and SSPX.The Age of Aquarius is over folks and Benedict XVI knows this better that anybody.
Are you kidding? You state:
Are you kidding? You state: "The seminaries that are full are the FSSP,ICK,and SSPX" So the seminaries are full of schismatics? You think Burke et al are in their 30's? You can put all your eggs in the basket of an old 82 year old pope who dresses up like Santa Claus. It only shows how out of touch you folks are. The end is near for your "worship of the worship". The cardinals in France, Germany, Africa, Northern Europe and Asia are tired of this foolishness and are grinding their axes. Just wait!
Schismatics? The FSSP and
Schismatics? The FSSP and ICK are in full communion with Rome. The SSPX have not been normalized...yet, but I'm sure you'd have fits if the SSPX are normalized. Out of touch? Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what has been going on in the Church. The Protestantizers had their heyday in the years of Paul VI...your time is over. Catholic orthodoxy will be maintained, and if you don't like it well sadly there is an Episcopal "Church" down the road who would probably welcome you. When you come to your senses, you know where the Confessional is.
The lion's share of diocesan
The lion's share of diocesan seminarians today (at least those I have encountered) are conservative, and most are "on board" with the "reform of the reform" and many are learning the Extraordinary Form. Some would even celebrate the EF exclusively if they could, but will happily continue to serve the people of God as necessary by celebrating Mass in the OF as well.
The Age of Aquarius is quite over, and the age where we may finally and truly implement Vatican II can soon begin.
Like Mary Daly said: "Laugh
Like Mary Daly said:
"Laugh out loud at their pompous penile processions."
Can't wait till they're posted on youtube.
Whoever said that you can't
Whoever said that you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, never met the Roman Curia!!
Excellent news!The
Excellent news!The developments just keep getting better under Pope Benedict...I hope he celebrates a Solemn High Mass in the old rite in St Peter's this year!I have 2 things left on my wish list for this Pontificate.I pray the Pope ends communion in the hand throughout the Latin Church and that he reforms religious life both female and male.Some of the most awful leftist bishops in the US and Europe are due to retire soon.I pray Pope Benedict appoints young bold orthodox bishops to diocese such as Albany NY and Rochester NY!Fingers Crossed
It's like little children
It's like little children playing dress up. Go ahead, kids, knock yourselves out! (And Jesus wept. Jn. 11:35)
... or it's like Exodus 28:
... or it's like Exodus 28:
"Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron, to give him dignity and honor. 3 Tell all the skilled men to whom I have given wisdom in such matters that they are to make garments for Aaron, for his consecration, so he may serve me as priest. 4 These are the garments they are to make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban and a sash. They are to make these sacred garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so they may serve me as priests. 5 Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen."
Oh, sorry, that was the angry, patriarchal God of the Old Testament. We've moved beyond that now, haven't we (except for our poor benighted Jewish friends)?
Such insolent remarks about a
Such insolent remarks about a Catholic Church that is yours! Even if you prefer the Novus Ordo Mass the traditions and Magesterium are part of what Catholic Identity is !! The belligerence that the NO crowd has is just as bad as the Ultra Traditionalist. But the scorn that is being heaped onto vestments, Tridentine inclinations and the older form of Mass is scorn on that which is part of being a Catholic. Sad and a time for reflection for many. Conservatives and Traditionalists alike just want to be left alone to re-establish their religious lives within the Church. The Pope has said that we are welcome and in fact have been marginalized for the last 40 years. He has said it to be downright indecent. So think of yourselves with these comments and harsh judgemental critques. Our Holy Father has said your attitudes are and have been indecent. Face to face would you accept that assessment from the Holy Father? He is your Pope too. Good grief, when does it end? You will eventually require a return to the Tridentine Mass and suppression of the NO just to return some Holiness to the souls who have lost it. Lex Credandi, Lex Orlandi..The NO supporters certainly show what they believe.
You people don't get it do
You people don't get it do you?
You have no sense of the sacred. You don't care about the faith. Its all just a game to you. You really think B16's reforms are going to go? Look at the growing trad orders. They have their problems but they are growing. Your nastiness knows no bounds. How can you say you are Catholic, where is the spirit of Christ? You snarl and sneer at those of us who attend the TLM. Your just as dogmatic and unpastoral as the people whom you attribute those adjectives to. Let us be blunt here. If any of you had your way the TLM would be banned and anyone who went to it would be made an outcast within the Church.
You people need to wake up. FSSP, SSPX, Opus Dei, ICK, FFIM, etc...
There are doznes of rapidly growing orders of priests and sisters in the Church today. Not one of them are "progressive" minded. Its a shame that you call the holy sacrifice of the mass a "penile procession." How despicable to call a form of the mass that. You people don't grasp that the mass and teh Church are not about YOU. It is about God.
I am a priest in my early 30s
I am a priest in my early 30s and I study and live in Rome. I also celebrate the EF, not exclusively but more so than most priests, probably because most of my Masses in Rome are private.
I can tell you, first hand though, that the 'Reform of the Reform' is very real and will not go away with the death of Benedict XVI, as some posters here have said. The interest in the Extraordinary Form is massive among younger clergy and seminarians; even those who do not know how to celebrate the traditional Mass are either interested in learning or at least balanced enough not to have a problem with it.
Priests interested in these things now and who make the effort to learn or support the liturgical 'reform of the reform', whether that be the Extraordinary Form or a more sober and reverent Ordinary Form will very quickly, especially because of a clergy shortage, be pastors of parishes, leaders within dioceses, leaders within religious orders, and even bishops within the Church. This is already happening, and the results evident (even if most NCR readers would not like to acknowledge this or are angry about it).
In my own priesthood, I try to be kind to liberals who are almost always older than me and have their own degrees of anger or acceptance with the direction the Church is moving in. I hope that charity and a common sense of the mission of glorifying God and saving souls will win out in the long run. Until then though, I predict a lot more prominent Masses in the EF and interest in it to continue to grow, even if some people would rather put their heads in the sand then recognize the "signs of the times".
I have no problem with a
I have no problem with a parish celebrating mass in the OF and the EF...in fact that is what has been called for, the availablilty of both forms to the church. Personally, I now just attend a latin mass in the EF though I would attend a latin mass in the OF if one was offered.
Our archdiocese has alot of immigrants from many countries and many parish's struggle and juggle to make certain they have masses in various languages. Guess what, if we had those masses available then it would not matter what language was your language of origin, all of us could worship together in a common language.
Also, the TLM/EF can grow on you. I am a convert (in the 1980's) and was raised Baptist so I did not come from any liturgical background and entered the church when for most parish's latin was a dim memory or was only maybe allowed out during Advent/Christmas and Easter. I did not "take" to the TLM the first time I attended, but over time and with knowledge, I have become attached.
Long Live Pope Benedict
Long Live Pope Benedict XVI!
I Love the Latin Mass... The reverence for our Lord... The beauty of the Latin and the Chant... 2000 years of Sacred Tradition in worship. These are the prayers of the Great Saints and Martyrs.
It is sad that so many
It is sad that so many disparage the Holy Father and the traditions of the Church. One can't help but wonder why these people are Catholic when they despise the Church's teachings, tradition, and history.
I am 28 years old and though I did not discover the Traditional Latin Mass until a couple years ago, I must say that I love it. If it were possible, I would attend the TLM every week. I can say without hesitation that I yearn for the continued restoration of traditional liturgy throughout the world, and will personally sacrifice my time and money for this end.
I am a priest who was trained
I am a priest who was trained in the "Novus Ordo Missae." I now very often celebrate TLM. Each Sunday, there are almost 300 people who attend Holy Mass in the TLR. Most of these people are young, well educated, many with large families. The Second Vatican Council never mandated "folk Masses," Communion in the hand, bongo drums and dancing nuns. The aging hippies of the 60's and 70's including some bishops and priests are angry that "their" vision of the Church has been rejected. If these clerics really want "to be with it," buy a new cassock, and repeat after me, "INTROIBO AD ALTARE DEI."
The joint meeting of the U.S.
The joint meeting of the U.S. Confraternity of Catholic Clergy and the Australian Confraternity took place in Rome earlier this month. I was not there but know people who were. None of them think Vatican II was "a mistake." Many of them, like myself, do think it was badly implemented, and that a "reform of the reform" is in order. I don't see anything positive in shrill argumentation or crowing about church politics -- and I have seen it from both points of view above.
For the last 40 years, "liberalism," "progressivism," call it what you will, has been on the ascendent. Now the other side of the aisle (mine) has gotten its act together and is presenting its side of the argument. May this discussion be carried out in the light of Christ by both sides of the aisle. Seriously.
Please can someone help me? I
Please can someone help me? I shall be in Rome on Sunday 3 October - is there a church where I can attend a Tridentine Mass?
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