Ten reasons why Alabama immigration law is unjust, unconstitutional

I am particularly concerned with the mayan Guatemalan community in Alabama. If americans knew their plight they would be against this recent legislation so here it is. In Guatemala their has been a history of racism perpetrated by the Spanish population against the indigenous. Historically the government and money was controlled by the Spanish and the indigenous were very poor living in remote rural areas. In 1954 a president was elected who said that we will buy the land not being used by their owners and give it to the poor to farm. The head of United Fruit Company went to his brother in law secretary of State Dullas and said we can not allow this. The U.S. flew bombers over the capital of Guatemala, the president stepped down and this was the preempter to civil war. Under President Reagan we supported the Guatemalan government in the civil war. The Guatemalan army raped, tortured and killed 200,000 Mayans with our support. Many escaped and came to the U.S. applying for asylum. Their applications were put on hold by immigration until the war ended in 1996. They were then sent to asylum interviews and denied because the was no longer is there. Many are now here illegally because of this denial. They have their roots here and children born here and have orders of removal because of injustices in immigration law. And now we pass this rediculous legislation denying them basic human rights. What are we doing? Why dont anyone stand up for them.

This new immigrastion law is so unfair my opinion on this is that we "Latinos" "Mexicans" or what ever you want to call us have a right to be here as much as anybody in this damn world!! This new freaking law means noting to me why? because no matter how hard you try to get us out of the U.S its not gonna happen. we are human too we should be getting along. My honestly thought on this is that HISTORY KEEPS REPEATING ITSELF but why? first the jews then the blacks and now mexicans latinos this is really wrong!!!! we have no right to discrimminate anyone in this world we are to be working together to find peace!!!!

Mario, the base of your argument hinges on the assumption that quote "The Constitution protects not only the rights of U.S. citizens but also all “persons” living within the country, even the undocumented." However the Constitution does not, and can not, protect illegal Aliens in the way that you argue. If a person even obtains citizenship through legtal proceedures but does so by using fraud, his citizenship is nullified. How much more so the person who illegally enters the US and provides false social security of other ID in order to obtain employment?
Citizenship is not a right based on will it is a privilage to be conferred based on the laws of the nation state that grants it. Just ask one of the thousands of people around the world who are seeking US citizenship through legal means, a process that is both very time consuming ( several plus years) and definately not guaranteed.

We all need scapegoats for what is making us scared or insecure. But blaming all of our problems or many of them on immigrants is not right or just.
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You interpreted the law as you choose. You did not interpret the law in a manner that is acceptable to the truth. You developed a nice straw man essay, and here we are.

At some point, the Catholic Religion is going to have to deal with the idea that the illegal aliens are the most expensive workers in the world. As long as we are only about half way to the finish line, though, the Catholic Church is directly responsible for fraudulent claims by illegal aliens that amount to millions, and millions of American Dollars. The law suits we are seeing, by the way, may be models to retrieve some of the money from the Church. What a wonderful thought.

It is not too much of a stretch to draw a parallel between the immigration laws being passed by some of the states and the manner in which the laws not only target the immigrant but any one wishing to reach out to them with the Nazi Germany treatment of the Jews and anyone who hepled them. It was wrong then, declared as crimes against humanity, and is wrong now.
The immigration situation has problems and issues that need to be addressed. The current trend is not the way. If for no other reason, and there are others, the current approach underminds our values, the fundamental basis on which this country stands. We should not be so blind to think that what has happened throughout history cannot happen here. When the most vulnerable have been mis- and mal-treated it does not stop with the minority. It ends in a totalitarian govenment. No one but the few are "safe" and the few has a revolving membership. There is no end to the crimes against humanity that can occur.

Truly great baloney!

"very few Americans will do the work that the undocumented do because.........blah blah blah

Doesnt that sound just like a blowhard businessman? or a nitwit socialist? or, perhaps, an NCR reporter looking for cheap help?

Hey, Americans will do any work you want. You just need to pay enough. You pay $50 an hour, youll get plenty of people cleaning your toilets. You pay enough, say $20 billion an hour, you'll get Buffett, the Koch Brothers, or Bill Gates cleaning them.

So you dont need to break the law. You just need to, horrors, open your wallet. Or, worse horrors, you can clean them yourself,

My response to your proposition is simple:

1. You shall not steal.

2. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.

Any people using services intended for people here in the United States legally are guilty of violating these two commandments. Anyone assisting people here illegally in acquiring these services are guilty of the same sins by association and furthermore are guilty of not loving their neighbors. All your arguments are rationalizations of sin.

The ends cannot justify the means. It would be better, and I would wholeheartedly support, to improve these people's lives in their own countries through legally appropriated foreign aid.

I was reading a book on economics, and the author insisted that one of the main ways to keep wages low is via immigration. And so, by driving illegals out of their state, a famously low-wage state might be kicking itself in the foot. What wages will it take to attract workers to the chicken and beef slaughterhouses? To the other farm work? To all those low-wage restaurant jobs? Would unions suddenly find a toe-hold? Ahh, the law of unintended consequences.

Why is it "unjust" or "unconstitutional," in a nation subject to rule of law, to demand that a person who seeks to exercise a basic CITIZENSHIP right, i.e., to vote, have to prove he is a citizen?

Taxes benefit the common good. Those who have no right to be here incur real costs for society, including the cost of having to cope with illegals when they are found and to maintain border protections until they are found. Given the cost Alabama incurs in this field, it does not seem "unjust," much less "unconstitutional," for the illegals to contribute 4 cents on a dollar when they buy something.

Citizenship and residency have benefits. Because of my occupation, it is difficult for me to maintain consistent residence, which means that as a born in the USA citizen, there are states that will deny me in-state tuition rates for my children's higher educations. In an environment where everybody is increasingly having to tighten the belt and society must cut a diminishing pie, why is it "unjust" or "unfair" to deny access to state colleges and universities to persons who have no lawful right to be in that State?

Regarding:"The problem here is that the police will engage in racial profiling in that in most cases they are going to make citizenship inquiries only for those who look “Latino.”"

- If in a state the statistics support that most of the undocumented people are "Latino", then it will follow that most of the inquiries will be directed to those who look "Latino". Using phrases such as 'racial profiling' does not address the problem that laws have been broken which go back to the amnesty law of 1986.This is the law as I recall that required all employers to document that their employers had legal social security numbers, and were permanent residences -- using the drivers license as the first step in verification.

Regarding: "...but what it fails to note is that the undocumented through sales taxes and indirectly paying property taxes if they are renters are helping to fund these services even if they can’t benefit from them. "

- Nothing about 'paying taxes' allows for the 'purchase' of rights or benefits of citizenship, or legal residency. One pays taxes to maintain the services that are in place, whether one is allowed to use them or not. For instance, taxes pay for the body guard of the President of the USA. However, most of us do not have the right to a body guard paid for with tax money. Even, when royalty from other countries pay US taxes on their use of services in the US, or on their investments in the US they are not allowed to consider that those taxes entitles them to the benefits reserved to legal residents and citizens.

Regarding: "Moreover, where is the sense of humanity in helping our fellow human beings if they are in need? Where is the Catholic/Christian human sensitivity? Are the undocumented not also created in the likeness of God?"

- Good questions and ones that should be the foundation for helping people. Hopefully this will be the basis for the undocumented to realize that coming to the US in violation of the law is tantamount to saying to citizens and legal residents of US that none of what you are really matters.

Regarding: "It bars the undocumented from enrolling in or attending public colleges. This would unfairly affect, for example, many children of undocumented immigrants who through no fault of their own have no documents but who have lived almost all of their lives in this country. For all practical effects, they are Americans. "

- On the whole, a sensible observation.

Regarding: "It prohibits the undocumented from applying for or soliciting work. The right to work to sustain oneself and one’s family is a human right and one recognized by the Catholic Church."

The Catholic Church also teaches respect of civil law. Breaking the law is not showing respect. The church also teaches that countries have rights to establish laws and protect its citizens -- which might explain why the curia carries on about Vatican rights.

Regarding: "However, the fact -- well documented -- is that most Americans including African-Americans and U.S. born Latinos will not do the hard and dirty work that undocumented immigrants perform such as farm labor and food processing that pay very low wages with no benefits."

- A valid observation about 'low wages'. For years, employers, including catholic parishes, have been using the undocumented as employees, almost always paying less than market rates (while also avoiding the payment of mandatory benefits), or at least the rates need to keep a family out of poverty. It is no wonder then that wage rates are in two different streams, 'just wages', and 'less than just wages'. Why are employers allowed, by hiring undocumented, to undermined labor justice in this way?. Why is the author defending this practice?

Regarding: "It outlaws renting property to the undocumented. Yet the right to shelter is a human right. Do we not remember the search by Mary and Joseph for shelter?"

- On the whole it is valid to raise the issue of food and shelter. Even criminals, US citizens or not, have these rights. That is, it is not just or legal to have two prisons systems: one for the legal resident or citizen, and one for the undocumented persons where there is little shelter, and no food. So yes, no one should be denied dignified shelter, or healthy food. However, it does not follow that simply showing up and receiving food and shelter is tantamount to permission to remain and stay.

Mary and Joseph, received the only shelter left in Bethlehem, a city to which they belonged due to their heritage in the House of David. Later they fled to Egypt when the region became unsafe for them. BTW, it is not certain that in those days the Holy Family's residency in Egypt made them illegal or undocumented residents. That is, it is probably anachronistic to imply that documents were necessary to cross any border, or that 'documented alien' had any meaning. Also, more than likely, thanks to the generosity of the Magi, perhaps the Holy Family had resources for a stay in Egypt, that is, besides the carpentry skills of Joseph.

Regarding: "This is already federal law and therefore redundant but the “knowingly” clause is in reality a hypocrisy that allows employers including probably Alabama legislators to hire the undocumented by the claim that they “thought” or had “checked” that these workers were legal."

- As I understand it, an employer 'knowingly' hires and illegal worker when the employer does not follow the procedures necessary to verify the right to hold a job. That is the dead beat employer can be proven to have knowingly hired someone when the employee is hired and the fact checking does not occur. Actually, this law may be a benefit for everyone in that it makes it harder for employers to avoid paying Social Security, Medicare, and pension benefits to employees.

Regarding: " Again, very few Americans will do the work that the undocumented do because, for example, they can get more money through unemployment compensation that through the meager wages paid in these “undocumented jobs.” It is also a status issue. Americans don’t want to do “undocumented immigrant jobs.”"

- Just exactly how does this provide support for allowing undocumented workers to come to the US and to stay? As above this sounds like the author is in cahoots with employers who do not want to pay just wages, and are working to undermine their responsibility to do so.

Regarding: " It requires a citizenship check for people registering to vote. This is an anti-democratic measure that will only serve to intimidate many legal Latinos and others from registering to vote because it is they who will be the most scrutinized and so racial profiling will be involved. Moreover, how do you prove that you are a U.S. citizen? A driver’s license? That’s not proof of citizenship. How many of us carry our birth certificate with us and even if Latinos did some “birthers” might still challenge the authenticity of their documents."

- OK, the author is straining. It is fraud to vote in the US if you are not a citizen. Yes, any registration that is challenged on citizenship grounds must be validated with a birth certificate, or an affidavit attesting to citizenship (allowing for those people who were birthed in their homes a long time ago for instance.) The author does underscore the need to educate everyone, not just citizens of Latino heritage, about their rights and responsibilities of voting.

Regarding: "It also unfairly makes teachers into immigrant officials and by so doing injure the trust that is needed between teachers and students in the learning process. "

- The weight of this is on the school administrators who are the reporters. Like food and shelter, and health care, education is a universal right. No much good comes from keeping children ignorant, even if their parents have made mistakes.

On the whole, the law in Alabama is ill conceived. Laws such as these basically are a testament to the failure of employers to obey labor law. Indirectly they indicate how employers were in control of the government agencies that were responsible for monitoring employers since the 1986 amnesty law and through that control disabled the enforcement of laws ranging from work place safety, to benefits payments, to residency verification.

Nevertheless, the author might consider that in his above article in which he seems to want to defend the undocumented worker he is actually undermining labor justice, and perhaps sacrificing the undocumented on the altar of economic greed.

One of the primary problems with illegal immigration is that is suppresses the wages of our least-skilled and least politically powerful citizens. The illegal immigrants are not taking the jobs of professors and newspaper editors. They take the jobs that would normally provide our least skilled citizens a first step on the job ladder.

So if you argue that open borders is the way to go you must accept that there is a heavy price to pay for that policy. That price is not paid by everyone in our society. It is primarily paid by the poor (especially black males from low-income families).

Is it any wonder that black males feel rejected by our society?

I am myself the progeny of Irish-immigrants to America less than 100 years ago and a Roman Catholic convert to Orthodox Christianity. I am deeply saddened by what the Alabama State legislature has done in the name of the people of Alabama, but I am more deeply disturbed at what may lie around the corner for all of us, as a people of faith and conscience.

I am the local examiner for the Birmingham, Alabama General Religion and Culture section of Examiner.com, and recently wrote an article entitled "The Basis for My Opposition to the New Alabama Illegal Immigration Policy" (you may find the text of the full article here: http://www.examiner.com/religion-and-culture-in-birmingham/the-basis-for...).

It is our calling as a People to, as recorded in the Prophet Micah, "He (the Lord) has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8, NIV).

Truthfully, this fight over the new Alabama Illegal Immigration policy is about Rights; the Rights of American Citizens, not illegal-immigrants (who are not illegal-persons, by the way). Separation of Church and State separates both from the other (and isn't mentioned in the US Constitution by the way, it is only implied--Thomas Jefferson coined the term in a personal letter). Regardless, it exists because neither the Church nor the State is the source of the other entity—God, the Creator, is their source. The same God that endowed us with the Rights to "Life, Liberty,and the Pursuit of Happiness" according to the Declaration of Independence. These three principle Endowed-Rights are upheld by the Bill of Rights (as the founders felt these ten Rights were necessary to uphold the three Endowed-Rights indicative of a free-people). Freedom of Religion is in the First Amendment, along with Freedom of the Press, and Freedom of Assembly, and the Right to Petition the Government for Redress of Grievances; all of these freedoms imply an aspect of freedom of thought and conscience (both for the individual and the Assembly)--a place where it is indeed dangerous precedent to give more power to government than they deserve and could not handle if they had it within their purview.

By capitulating to this abomination of a bill, you are saying that it is wrong to help another human being. You can no longer give them a ride to church, to the hospital, to the grocery store--you can't loan, or give them charity, or food. You can't even give them a ride to the local service-station if their car is broken down on the side of the road. Or, if it is a really hot Alabama summer's day, you can't even give them water to drink. Compare that to what Jesus says about the Last Judgment in the Gospel of Matthew 25: 31-46, and then make your decision as to whom you wish to serve, God or Mammon.

Don't let fear run your lives. Don't give up your Endowed-Rights, or those secured for you in the Bill of Rights, out of fear-mongering and hatred, to fix a problem that CORPORATIONS are causing and perpetuating for a cheap-labor force. Ask yourself this, why is it that the Federal government hasn't worked on this problem in twenty years, a time-frame that covers both political parties being in and out of power, or more rightly said, the two-wings of the American Corporate Party?

I certainly do not disagree that we need to take care of Americans. Veterans are homeless after they have given more than anyone else to this nation, current service-members are having to use food-stamps, and other forms of welfare, and unemployment is 9.2%, while millions of Americans go without basic health-care. However, no law that is so empowered, as to go after how we think, or the intimate nature of a person’s religious conscience and conviction could possibly be the answer.

My mom's ancestors were rounded up by the government under Andrew Jackson, during the Trail of Tears, to be sent from this region to Oklahoma land Reservations. Thousands of the Native Americans had white husbands. Guess what? When the Cherokee women were rounded up, their husbands either had to forgo their land, and accompany their wives, or... divorce their wives. The ones that chose to go with their wives ended up living in "re-location camps" until the Trail ended. My point is simply that this will end badly for EVERYONE. See this link as to why I think this: http://www.yuricareport.com/Civil%20Rights/Endgame.pdf

It is corporate and individual greed that is empowering illegal-immigration, and if we would focus efforts on going after businesses (and individuals) that employ illegal-immigrants, that would work most effectively to curtail the problem. However, I simply do not ascribe to the concept of giving up even more of my Rights, more of myself, to the government, to fix a problem that the corporations through government have caused and are perpetuating.

Thank you,
Humbly in Christ,
Thomas W. Taylor
General Religion and Culture Examiner
Examiner.com/Birmingham,AL.

alamba and arzoina are racist! You greedy americans dont want to help poor people? You want to spend that extra money you have on a massage, while the illegal got up at 4:00AM and you got up at 7:00Am and you work in a A/C office sittig on your AS* while they stand and work in 100+ weather, and dont help them with basic rights. Don't you feel side. Put yourself in their shoes. They want to contrubite to the USA, but they feel hate from you guys! I'am a farmworker (im mexican) and the only white people i see out their are the owners and sons of the owners. All Feild workers are hispanic. You whites dont like labor, you like offices. stop attacking illegals, 1 illegal worker is worth 40 americans, most of you havent steped steped in a feild or contruction site!! The american econamy is the fat cat's fault, they steal your money while the goverment hides it and blames it on the illegals.