Moore raises important issues regarding bin Laden

once more we discover it impossible to be both anglo American and a moral member of the human community

Nazi leaders were legitimate government official--bin Laden was a common criminal.

"Michael Moore, the filmmaker" is certainly NOT a person generally recognized as completely free of biases, prejudices, and preconceived notions. What makes him an expert on these matters? Let him have his opinions, but where is his proof or support for any of these allegations? I myself will give them little weight in my reflections on these events. And so should you.

Surely it's possible they had "shoot to kill" orders.
It's also possible that they had "shoot to kill if there is any resistance",orders.
It's also possible that given the intrusion in the lower floors Osama would have had time to set booby traps on or about his person if he wanted to. The seals would have known that. Lots of fear. They may have reacted to POSSIBLE threatening behavior - a better him than me response. Maybe he resisted so they would make him a martyr. Like suicide by cop.

We'll just never really know.

The world is better off without him IMO - but that doesn't mean we should not say a prayer for him. All that hatred can make anyone crazy.

This is all speculation. If you want to explore the morality of an act, you can speculate, compare, contrast, all you want in the never-never land of "I don't know but..." But don't draw conclusions about the moral state of the nation based on speculation.

It is just as possible that those who went in to "get" bin Laden were told to capture him if he came quietly, but not at the risk of bin Laden killing one of them or getting away. Frankly, I am surprised that there are some who were in that compound who are still alive - showing the men who went in did not want to kill everyone.

Mario Garcia: as my friend Charlie Scanlon points out in his blog, Mike Moore “has solid Roman Catholic moral theology taught him by good and holy nuns.”

Here is the opinion of a man who
1) “has solid Roman Catholic moral theology taught him by good and holy Jesuit priests.”
2) also has been in “the sights” of the CIA, but for now over 50 years to receive the same USA medicine that Osama bin Laden was given.
(here’s a translation from the original Spanish for NCR readers unfamiliar with the language of the majority of Roman Catholics in the world today.)

THE ASSASSINATION OF OSAMA BIN LADEN

Those persons who deal with these issues know that on September 11 of 2001 our people expressed its solidarity to the US people and offered the modest cooperation that in the area of health we could have offered to the victims of the brutal attack against the Twin Towers in New York.

We also immediately opened our country’s airports to the American airplanes that were unable to land anywhere, given the chaos that came about soon after the strike.

The traditional stand adopted by the Cuban Revolution, which was always opposed to any action that could jeopardize the life of civilians, is well known.

Although we resolutely supported the armed struggle against Batista’s tyranny, we were, on principle, opposed to any terrorist action that could cause the death of innocent people. Such behavior, which has been maintained for more than half a century, gives us the right to express our views about such a sensitive matter.

On that day, at a public gathering that took place at Ciudad Deportiva, I expressed my conviction that international terrorism could never be eradicated through violence and war.

By the way, Bin Laden was, for many years, a friend of the US, a country that gave him military training; he was also an adversary of the USSR and Socialism. But, whatever the actions attributed to him, the assassination of an unarmed human being while surrounded by his own relatives is something abhorrent. Apparently this is what the government of the most powerful nation that has ever existed did.

In the carefully drafted speech announcing Bin Laden’s death Obama asserts as follows:

“…And yet we know that the worst images are those that were unseen to the world. The empty seat at the dinner table. Children who were forced to grow up without their mother or their father. Parents who would never know the feeling of their child's embrace. Nearly 3,000 citizens taken from us, leaving a gaping hole in our hearts.”

That paragraph expressed a dramatic truth, but can not prevent honest persons from remembering the unjust wars unleashed by the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan, the hundreds of thousands of children who were forced to grow up without their mothers and fathers and the parents who would never know the feeling of their child’s embrace.

Millions of citizens were taken from their villages in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba and many other countries of the world.

Still engraved in the minds of hundreds of millions of persons are also the horrible images of human beings who, in Guantanamo, an occupied Cuban territory, walk down in silence, being submitted for months, and even for years, to unbearable and excruciating tortures. Those are persons who were kidnapped and transferred to secret prisons with the hypocritical connivance of supposedly civilized societies.

Obama has no way to conceal that Osama was executed in front of his children and wives, who are now under the custody of the authorities of Pakistan, a Muslim country of almost 200 million inhabitants, whose laws have been violated, its national dignity offended and its religious traditions desecrated.
How could he now prevent the women and children of the person who was executed outside the law and without any trial from explaining what happened? How could he prevent those images from being broadcast to the world?

On January 28 of 2002 the CBS journalist Dan Rather reported on that TV network that on September 10 of 2001, one day before the attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Osama Bin Laden underwent a hemodialysis at a military hospital in Pakistan. He was physically unfit to hide and take shelter inside deep caves.

Having assassinated him and plunging his corpse into the bottom of the sea are an expression of fear and insecurity which turn him into a far more dangerous person.

The US public opinion itself, after the initial euphoria, will end up criticizing the methods that, far from protecting its citizen, will multiply the feelings of hatred and revenge against them

Fidel Castro Ruz May 4, 2011

Justiniano de Managua

Mario,

There might just be one or the other NCR reader for whom the name Fidel Castro Ruz doesn’t mean all that much.

So here comes the opinion of a recognized “thinking United Stateser” who says: “even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.”

My Reaction to Osama bin Laden’s Death
Publicado el: Domingo, 8 de mayo del 2011.

By: Noam Chomksy
Article published in Amauta with permission from the author
Source: Guernica Magazine

We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.

It’s increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition—except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress “suspects.” In April 2002, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, informed the press that after the most intensive investigation in history, the FBI could say no more than that it “believed” that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn’t know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence—which, as we soon learned, Washington didn’t have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that “we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”

Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of bin Laden’s “confession,” but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.

There is also much media discussion of Washington’s anger that Pakistan didn’t turn over bin Laden, though surely elements of the military and security forces were aware of his presence in Abbottabad. Less is said about Pakistani anger that the U.S. invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.

We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.

There’s more to say about [Cuban airline bomber Orlando] Bosch, who just died peacefully in Florida, including reference to the “Bush doctrine” that societies that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves and should be treated accordingly. No one seemed to notice that Bush was calling for invasion and destruction of the U.S. and murder of its criminal president.

Same with the name, Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound, throughout western society, that no one can perceive that they are glorifying bin Laden by identifying him with courageous resistance against genocidal invaders. It’s like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk… It’s as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes “Jew” and “Gypsy.”

There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.

Justiniano de Managua mayo 11, 2011