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PDF versionLiturgy Changes in 2011
by Maureen Fiedler on Jun. 16, 2010
Religion News Service reported yesterday that changes in the liturgy of the Mass, specifically the awkward translations of certain prayers, are slated tentatively for late 2011. The date was announced by Bishop Edward Braxton of Belleville, Ill., a former member of the U.S. bishops' liturgy committee. He indicated that the date is not firm, but "it is very possible, however, that the date will be the First Sunday of Advent 2011."
Just to put this in context, these are the translations of various Mass texts that many US Catholics -- bishops and liturgical experts alike -- oppose, and are likely to raise a lot of questions in the minds of folks in the pews. (The questions, in fact, are already being asked. My fellow blogger, Dennis Coday, passed on last week a request from a reader looking to join a group or alliance working to postpone the new translation.)
I’ve followed this story as it developed, and it boggles my mind that translation questions are not left to native speakers of a language ... in this case, English.
This development may actually spur the growth of “intentional Eucharistic communities” across the country where there is respect for lay participation, including language. For more information, visit: http://www.intentionaleucharisticcommunities.org/
I'm eagerly awaiting the new
I'm eagerly awaiting the new translation. I'm sure there will be issues to overcome as the implementation progresses, but in the end it will work out just fine.
to Bare Ruined Choirs . .
to Bare Ruined Choirs . . .
(Shakespeare's Sonnet via Garry Wills' great, prophetic book)
visit the Spanish Mass and call it a Day.
our past and future church in this hemisphere . . .
What good is a communication
What good is a communication that is not understood? Last told the
reading level of the populace is grade 3.
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, I pray He saves us from all this language lunacy. This I ask in the name of Jesus Christ, the son of God.
Instead of complaining about
Instead of complaining about it, why not try to ease it's implementation? It seems instead the objective of many at NCR is to make the transition as difficult as possible.
The new transalation of the
The new transalation of the Mass represents the momentary triumph of the 40-year whiners who have complained since the current translation was introduced. I never heard anyone of consequence in the church tell them to shut up and accept the current translation. Now that they have demonstrated conclusively that it is possible to string English words together in ways that make little sense to native English speakers, we have little choice but to start a 40-year whine of our own.
Shut up and accept the
Shut up and accept the current translation??? is this what passes for dialogue? How would you like to be spoken to in this manner?
I agree 100% with your
I agree 100% with your comment. I truly see all this new stuff as a way to distract the congregation's attention from the true problems that are happening in the church. Wasn't lack of communication, silence and control of power responsible for many of the present problems being addressed. What next, the altars changed back to the old way and the priest's backs turned to us and just being told to accept!!!! When will we let the powers that be know that The Church is the People and not just them!!!!!!
When will people realize that
When will people realize that The Church is NOT a Democracy???
The "slight" changes in
The "slight" changes in wording may seem innocuous, but if you look a little deeper: the changes, like "I believe..." instead of "We believe"...that's a big difference! With the "We believe", WE are agreeing, as the Body of Christ, that we believe the same things, reaffirming our baptism in the Catholic Faith/Church. If I just say "I believe...", it just means, me, vicswife, and what does that have to do with the price of potatoes in Ireland? That is the one example that comes to mind. The other slight changes had equally important, but very subtle changes in MEANING, not just WORDING! We don't know what to do...accept it? No. Say the original words while everyone else speaks the new ones? Difficult. Stay away? Not forever. Don't know what to do. Suggestions are welcome!
It's hard to predict how the
It's hard to predict how the majority of Sunday-attendees will react. So many Catholics who attend weekend services won't care---they'll probably go along with it all--"Just tell me what to do..."
Of course some Catholics will object to the changes---this is predictable. They did also at the time of change after Vatican II.
Life will go on.
the majority do not listen
the majority do not listen anyway
and grow less and less . . .
Get thee to the Spanish Mass!
GO!!
Come to the Spanish
Come to the Spanish Mass.
Case closed
and give generously to the collection
both of them.
and today, June 16th, Bloomsday, take up James Joyce's Ulysses as our new approved Sacramental Text, as so very many of us now do, and as daily Divine Office, in hopeful expectations of the coming New Bloomusalem already within and among us!
YES!!
That "liturgical experts"
That "liturgical experts" oppose any measure of the Rite inures immeasurable benefit to the translation. You must have had a poor connection while following the development of the Rite: Last time I checked, ICEL and USCCB are comprised of predominately English-native speakers. And, yes, the liturgy will likely help spur the growth of intentional Eucharistic communities, along with things such as the Petrine ministry, trinitarian formulae, the unique salvivic mission of Christ, and a host of other issues that were normatively defined centuries ago.
This new translation is
This new translation is littered with tortured syntax, clumsy phrasing, antiquated usage and major grammatical errors. It is an insult to the intelligence of the laity. It's a terrible attempt to literally translate the old Latin Mass. Remember Latin is not the language of the People of God, it's the language of Vatican bureaucrats.
With one exception, the cowardly bishops in the USCCB rolled over to the heavy hand of the traditionalists in Rome.
This is nothing more than one more step to isolate the People of God from the Eucharist. Next, the priest will turn his back on the people and then we'll go back to all Latin whispered by the celebrant.
What an utter travesty.
Wake up, People. Say NO! Disrupt any so called training for the congregation. Keep reciting the prayers we have now and do so loudly because God needs to hear your voice through all this clerical static.
This has nothing to do with
This has nothing to do with the "old" mass, this translates the Latin from the Novus Ordo mass more faithfully into English.
Your call for disruption is typical of the NCR/CTA crowd.
Having heard some of the
Having heard some of the examples of parts of the New Translation Fr Jeremy Driscoll OSB gave in a podcast, the language is harking back to the Old Mass. The translation is too slavish in following the Latin, disregarding how it will sound in English. It is overly ornate and to my mind, hard on the ears. The sentences have so many phrases it's hard to keep the sense of it.
The liturgists are having to take another look at their work due to the criticism it has received from other experts.
I once asked a priest about
I once asked a priest about the use of Latin. His reply was 'It's the language of heaven dear boy'. A little Latin the universal language of the church will not go astray.
What good is a communication
What good is a communication that is not understood? Last told the
reading level of the populace is grade 3.
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, I pray He saves us from all this language lunacy. This I ask in the name of Jesus Christ, the son of God.
You, mr. muldoon sound like a
You, mr. muldoon sound like a protestant,remember the root word in protestant is protest. The language of the church is latin as it was for the first 1,965 years of the church's existance. It had the backing of all the popes up to this point,for you to say you know better is egoic. If indeed this is how it was supposed to be, then why did pope paul the xI say that vatican was ONLY to be a literal translation of the lation into the venacular. Sounds like you are going against papal teaching thereby making you a heretic. To say what the decision of all the bishops and numerous other people is arrogant which even though its not said but erroneously implied is arrogance. I pray for you but as church doctrine states please do not recieve communion unless you agree with ALL that the church teaches, for when you say amen when you receive christ in the eucharist you are emphatically saying I believe all the church teaches and therefore proclaiming a lie.
Really? Disrupt the training?
Really? Disrupt the training? I'm sure God will hear your disobedient voice. That was Satan's cry....I will NOT serve.
Go ahead... you who must know more than the scholars who worked so hard and so long on this more accurate translation of the Holy Mass. Who do you think you are? Get a grip man! Are you off your medication?
"As I see it now, we've all
"As I see it now, we've all got to change./Keeping us whole is the main thing (Melanie Safka)." Why are we up in arms about the changes? They are not radical. We are not going to have to learn Latin. We are still expected to be participatory. The Word of God and the Eucharist will still be at the center of our celebration of the Mass. Christ will still be where "two or more are gathered in [His] name." We have to learn a new word, "consubstantial," and we will have to relearn a few responses and a new version of some old prayers. Are we so worried about a little inconvenience and effort, that we refuse to accept change? Change is a natural part of any living being--including the Body of Christ, the Church. "Life is so much harder/when you fear the change./Don't fear the change (Melanie)."
"Disrupt any so called
"Disrupt any so called training for the congregation. Keep reciting the prayers we have now and do so loudly because God needs to hear your voice through all this clerical static."
Do you have any regard for those in the congregation at Mass to pray and worship God? Do you have any respect for those trying to educate others regarding the prayers? do you care at all for those attempting to learn? This is your plan to win these people to your side? and if that doesn't work, you'll disrupt the mass by calling attention to yourself and away from God.
Did Ghandi "have respect" for
Did Ghandi "have respect" for the British? Did Rosa Parks "have regard" for the bus company? Did John Lewis and the other marchers on the Pettis Bridge "have respect" for Bull Connor?
The real question is "Does the Vatican have respect for the People of God, for their point of view, for their intelligence, for their language?
Where was the opportunity for the People of God to comment on the new language?
When the Vatican bureaucracy doesn't allow comments, that's the perfect time to give them some, constantly and loudly!
Does the new translation have
Does the new translation have too many big words for poor little Thomas? Do all those complicated sentences boggle his little mind?....
As a high school Theology
As a high school Theology teacher I too am eagerly awaiting the new translation. It is absolutely an improvement over the current translation. The English language Mass will finally correspond to the Mass in Spanish, French, German etc.
A question. In the new
A question. In the new translation of the creed it states "Eternally born of the Father." If this is true, then Christ was born of the Father and is not equal. Are we redefining the doctrine of the Trinity?
Thank you. I think this is a
Thank you. I think this is a move toward "one religion." Stay tuned.
Of course nobody is
Of course nobody is re-defining the definition of the Trinity.
The new translation is simply a more literal translation of the Latin mass into english. My wife is latina and we routinely attend spanish mass. from what I have read of the new ICEL translation, the english mass will be closer to the spanish mass, which itself - due to the tight similarities between the romance languages and Latin - already closely tracks the Latin.
The folks pitching a whine about this are mostly aging Boomers who prefer the slack translation that came out of the late 1960's and early 1970's. That tranlation was simply too broad and freewheeling with the language and in short, does not accurately reflect what the Latin text of mass in fact says.
One Example: The current translation "Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed" is not the same as "Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed."
Capice?
KenB, dude, like, you know,
KenB, dude, like, you know, "Capice?"
Did you learn that at your wife's Spanish Mass?
I have been going for years beyond counting to the Spanish Mass, from Peru to Nicaragua, to Guatemala, to Mexico, to the Puerto Rican presence in the Northeast, and, you know, that word never came up . . .
though it sounds like something the boys who wrote our new English version might say . . .
When the Liturgy of the Mass
When the Liturgy of the Mass was changed "in the spirit of the Council" many clergy, religious and laypeople were hurt and displeased. Mother Church reminded them to keep their obedience to her. So even with pain in their hearts they attended the new Mass, which in the early stages seemed to change almost daily, with newer and more envelope pushing experimentation. All the while the "progressive" thinkers, and modernists reminded everyone of their obedience to the Church.
Now Mother Church wants to issue an updated translation to the English Novus Ordo missal, and where is the obedience today? Now when skilled and educated linguists and liturgists try to bring the language of the missal closer to it's Latin parent we hear outrage, disobedience, and talk of religious rebellion.
The careful precision, eye for detail, and great thought that has been put into the new translations by some of the greatest thinkers in our Church today is more effort than was ever put into creating the Novus Ordo in the first place.
TimmyC, you are right about
TimmyC, you are right about many people being displeased when the 60s Mass was adopted. My mom was among them, and I heard a lot about it at home.
I think what it boils down to is that it makes no sense for people to talk to their beloved God in words that are not their own or that do not make sense to them. Talking to God using someone else's words is not doing our best. It is like sending our spouse a preprinted greeting card instead of a love letter. Love requires a more personal touch. Is ritual repeated until it becomes formula true prayer?
There is a big difference.
There is a big difference. The liturgical changes that came about from Vatican II brought the Eucharistic Celebration closer to the People of God. These changes bring the celebration closer to the language of the vatican bureaucracy. There has been a gradual and insidious plan in the Vatican to take the celebration away from us and give it the imperial priesthood. I say it's time to say, "No More"!
You really think that the "greatest thinkers in our Church" developed this translation? Wouldn't a "great thinker" know English grammar?
There was a group of great thinkers who worked for years on making the current language more inclusive and bringing it even closer to the People. For this proposed translation, the Vatican locked a dozen or so troglodytes in the basement and few months later they came up with the literal translation of the Latin Mass.
I didn't read the comments,
I didn't read the comments, so I'm sorry if this is repetitive.
"it boggles my mind that translation questions are not left to native speakers of a language ... in this case, English."
Right now, we are wrong in our mass. Rather than coming from the original Latin, we did a bastardization of the Latin in English. Now we are going back to a more correct form of the mass....
If it makes people question, good! If they don't agree- then they aren't Catholic!
Sure, they're Catholic.
Sure, they're Catholic.
Shame on you for deciding who
Shame on you for deciding who is Catholic and who isn't. You are proving that there is no chance for discussion in the Catholic Church. "No tithing without representation".
You are all missing a bigger
You are all missing a bigger point to this issue. We Catholics are being asked to contribute millions of dollars so that new mass books and lectionaries can be printed and purchased by our parishes just so that a few words can be changed in the mass.
In light of the pedophilia scandal and the amount of money we've been asked to contribute to cover the vatican's tracks, asking us to foot the bill for something like this is absolutely immoral. I may not have a voice in the church (I'm a woman after all), but I can sure "vote" with my purse.
I couldn't agree more. They
I couldn't agree more. They are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
You nailed it!
You nailed it!
A-MEN! My first thought was
A-MEN! My first thought was "who benefit$"... Further, we are being nudged toward "one world religion." Mark my words.
Why don't you conscientous
Why don't you conscientous objectors try to learn a little more about what's behind the grammatical changes? I've been attending a class taught by a priest who is able to explain why the changes are being made, and most, if no all, make a lot of sense to me and others in the class. Since when is mother church subject to debate and the "will of the people"? Our bishops are the ordained ministers of the church whose primary responsibility is instruction of the people of God; God has sheltered the church from heresies in the past, (not that I see these changes as heresy) and I know that He will not suddenly allow her to go astray because of any errors of liturgical grammar. Let's trust our bishops and be confident (and grateful) that God, not man, is in charge.
These bishops of which you
These bishops of which you talk: Are they the same bishops who stood by when priests under their control sexually abused little children, and later tried to cover it up? Who was in charge then? Man or God? I hope you're not blaming God for that atrocity.
I think what is causing many
I think what is causing many of us to question these changes is knowledge of church history. This mother church of which you speak so respectfully is the same church which kept Galileo's text on the church's banned book list into the 1980's, which attacked Darwin, and which kept the language of "perfidious Jews" in the Good Friday liturgy until well into the 1960's. I am going to go listen to an explanation of the Liturgical changes but I am skeptical of a hierarchy that seems to want to backslide back to the Imperial Priesthood of the pre-Vatican II church.
As a church pastoral
As a church pastoral Associate and a teacher of religion for 20 years, having given ALL my professional life to the Church, I will tell you that NONE of this is about a 'true translation' but a serious exercise in power and control. No one in the Vatican CARES what anyone thinks; and they WANT the liberals to leave so that they have a Church that reflects them - not God or Jesus. (God, how Borgia-like...).
In the early and mid '80s, when I was doing my theology, we heard that there was going to be a 'better translation' of the mass done in English - inclusive language, easier flow for the Eucharistic prayers etc, (even some new and ADDITIONAL ones).
When the new catechism came out in 1992, the furor and cries of 'scandalous' attached to that translation gave the Curia pause for thought.
So, they began to look at what else was they could get their hands on and so they looked in the cooking pot of liturgy. Work was being done on more inclusive Eucharist prayers. And so we got the additional ones - 6 of them. (going well so far...). In 1993-94, the ICEL came out with a new translation of the mass and IMMEDIATELY it was rejected by Rome and if I am not mistaken, the Australian convener of the committee at the time protested that their authority and expertise was being ignored, found to be flawed and the translation was going to be taken back by the Romans instead... I think he even resigned...
Now this is the result... the ICEL was completely ignored by Rome initially and then later it was stacked to reflect the Anti-reformers.
This is as much to do with an overall change in Church power structure as it is 'oh, we are not saying the words properly'. Please, People of God, grow a pair and find ways to just IGNORE this tripe! (And before any of the LOYALISTS get going on me, Words are very important or YOU wouldn't be so hot to get this 'stuff' through. So grant us the courtesy of protecting what comes out of our mouths too...).
Just don't BUY a new missal! Put stickies over anything that comes - stop watching over your shoulders! And anyway, IF there is a censure from the Bishop/ Arch-bishop, then THAT will bring the snakes out of the grass and we'll see what all this is really about...! Bring it on!! Speak truth to Power.
Lastly, if I was to be found out for writing this, I'd be fired... now where's Jesus in that...?
You SHOULD be fired for all
You SHOULD be fired for all that swill you just poured onto the written page and the "Jesus in that" is that you deliberately defy His truth. What we, the People of God, should think is what the Church teaches and nothing more. You are not a Catholic but a Protestant -- and a wishy-washy Protestant at that. Christ formed a Church as His teaching authority whether you like it or not and rebels like you will not prevail against it. The Church and her liturgy is formed to reflect God's will and His teaching -- not yours! Isaiah prophesies that God's foolishness is smarter than man's intelligence and you just proved it conclusively. Get to Confession as soon as possible -- if your leftie parish still has confession -- and get right with God.
...and thus the first stone
...and thus the first stone has been cast.
Just drink you Kool-Aid and
Just drink you Kool-Aid and be done with it, please.
This is the church, and this
This is the church, and this is the steeple. Open the doors and see all the...SHEEPLE!!
"The Church and her liturgy
"The Church and her liturgy is formed to reflect God's will and His teaching"...Call me protestant or whatever you wish. I have and always will call myself a Christian, for I follow and serve Christ, not a religion and not a church. I believe God's will comes from no one and nothing but God. Are the men serving in combat zones around the world who are unable to make it to mass unable to hear or receive God's will. When I was lost in sin and living in darkness and going to no church whatsoever, how was it that I was saved? God's teaching is His word ALONE. When we stand before Him in judgement He will not judge our lives against a catechism, a missal, or the Catholic Encyclopedia. The Bible, His Word-alone-will be open, and we will have no excuse. Lastly, how can you tell someone to get right with God, when the first words of your message were to wish that they be fired? I love you for your zeal in what you believe, but if we are Christians? Shouldn't we be imitating Christ?
I'm a 55 year old man who
I'm a 55 year old man who attends the Catholic church lately more from habit than faith. I see this latest change more of an exercise in cultural control than in liturgical clarification.
The church is too involved in ritual. Mass should be an ad-lib affair.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of all the silly little games the church plays.I bet that if some big-shot in the church hierarchy stated that while lining up for communion the "faithful" are now required to do the hokey-pokey, most Catholics would blindly follow.
There is no way in hell that I am going to accept the latest from these pharisee. I'll do my thing and if they don't like it, I'll find a church that will accept me and my collection plate cash as we are....
I'm a 55 year old man who
I'm a 55 year old man who attends the Catholic church lately more from habit than faith. I see this latest change more of an exercise in cultural control than in liturgical clarification.
The church is too involved in ritual. Mass should be an ad-lib affair.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of all the silly little games the church plays.I bet that if some big-shot in the church hierarchy stated that while lining up for communion the "faithful" are now required to do the hokey-pokey, most Catholics would blindly follow.
There is no way in hell that I am going to accept the latest from these pharisee. I'll do my thing and if they don't like it, I'll find a church that will accept me and my collection plate cash as we are....
I have read all of these
I have read all of these posts and I must say that I am disappointed. I understand that everyone needs to get there point across but I think it could be done in a more civil way than arguing in such a manner. If one really cannot accept the new liturgy then one needs to decide if they belong in the church or if they need to move on to another religion that is more fit for him or her to express their love and worship for the Lord. One will be judged, in the end, by how one has lived his or her life and not by what religion he or she was. I hope that each of you can find peace through this transition.
I have also read all the
I have also read all the posts, and am concerned and yet not surprised. Since the fall of man, we the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, have been acusing God of trying to control us. The Church is the guiding light, with the fuel of the Word, who illuminates the foot path to heaven. He is infinite Love, who gave us his only Son for us to follow. Jesus gave us the seat of Peter to know his truth, yet often through our pride and vanity, we stray and loose our way. We the faithful are called to a higher obedience, not one of our culture of relativism. The line is much straighter.
I'm not sure why the tendency is to go straight to rebellion, rather than looking at the fulness of the the Church and Her infinite Wisdom. We enjoy the consistency of our Church, and it does become uncomfortable when change comes. the change is all about Universales and consistency.
Finally, all of humanity belongs in the Church! It is the Way, the Truth, and the Life! Nothing else will due. It is a Truth, not and opinion. Have a obedient and blessed year!
Solution to the problem: Let
Solution to the problem: Let Anglican liturgists create the entire Mass from the old Sarum Liturgy as celebrated at Salisbury Cathedral in England before the Reformation; you will have a Mass that resembles the 1928 American Book of Common Prayer. Nothing could be more beautiful! It's their language, ler them do it!
Anytime a change is
Anytime a change is implemented, even for the good, those comfortable with the status quo will object vociferously because positions, prejudices etc become more important than objective truth, saying in effect, the consequences 'be damned!' Trust our Holy Father the pope. Believe it or not he really knows best. Fellow Catholics, a call to change.
Anytime a change is
Anytime a change is implemented, even for the good, those comfortable with the status quo will object vociferously because positions, prejudices etc become more important than objective truth, saying in effect, the consequences 'be damned!' Trust our Holy Father the pope. Believe it or not he really knows best. Fellow Catholics, a call to change.
Anytime a change is
Anytime a change is implemented, even for the good, those comfortable with the status quo will object vociferously because positions, prejudices etc become more important than objective truth, saying in effect, the consequences 'be damned!' Trust our Holy Father the pope. Believe it or not he really knows best. Fellow Catholics, a call to change.
I dont know why so many
I dont know why so many people have a problem with the 'new translation'..The 'new mass' i.e. post 1962 is so far removed from what it really means to be Catholic. Once upon a time, the Mass was a solem, serious and sacred event with no other purpose than to show glory ,honor and praise to The Blessed Trinity,to approach God in the humblest of ways and to receive the most Holy Eucharist. Now,It resembles a local PTA meeting with guitar players,kids screaming and kicking the pews, I saw an altar boy with cargo shorts,flip flops and a sports team jersey in a church I recently visited.I saw a lady chewing gum during mass and a priest actually come down from the altar and share a photo from his cellphone to a member of the congregation. It is high time we,as Catholics went back to the old traditional way of approacing Our Lord,celebrated the REAL mass as it was intended to be and if you have such a problem with it maybe you should go find a nice Protestant church to worship at because that is what is happening to the awesome slendor and beauty of what was once,literally,Heaven on Earth. This new translation is hopefully only the start of what will come in the near future for the Catholic mass to be restored to its previous sacred state.
I hear no mention of Jesus
I hear no mention of Jesus and the mercy and grace He offers. Something is wrong. No matter what liturgical changes, our hearts are free to worship the God who redeemed us by his blood. He is the same yesterday, today nd forever. He does not change. That is where we should all be rejoicing. We all(including all priests and the pope)sin and fall short and only God's plan of salvation saves us, not liturgy. Our spirits will always be free to worship no matter what man-made changes come and go.
I am a little confused. I
I am a little confused. I came to this site for information and found a lot of hate mongering and badmouthing. Seems very un-Christian-like behavior. Some on here have acted like this is such a huge tragedy that they should leave the Catholic faith?! That is bizarre to me. I was born a Catholic and could never be anything else. We need to roll with the punches and embrace the changes. This is our faith, and honestly, if you cannot accept the Catholic faith, then leave it, maybe it is not for you.
Well, I just read many of the
Well, I just read many of the changes.
Although they claim it is a truer reflection of the Latin, the changes are not a true and accurate linguistic reflection of OUR belief as Catholics in the English language.
WE, as Catholics, have many beliefs that define US as Catholics.
WE, as Catholics, publicly proclaim OUR beliefs that define US as Catholics.
Now, with these changes it is, sadly, a reflection of selfishness and not about community.
WE will no longer proclaim OUR Faith as Catholics and the beliefs that bind us; 'WE' becomes 'I'. SAD, SAD, SAD!
'Peace of Our Lord be with you' gets the response 'And with your spirit'
This makes about as much sense as a response to the question, "Would you like a piece of bread?" to be "My stomach would." Our entire being (body, mind and soul) benefits from the peace we are granted, not just our spirit!
Isn't the greatest commandment from Christ that we should love the Lord Our God with all our body, mind and soul? If the Latin only included 'soul'. then maybe our English translation is not a 'dumbing down' (as one fellow parishioner claims), but rather a more scriptural 'smarting up'!
As I have read, the changes in the Communion Prayer read: "Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed." So, does a homeless person not have the worthiness to have his soul healed? Fellow Catholics that embrace these changes respond, "It more closely reflects the Scripture" REALLY? then why are we not saying "Then only say the word and my SERVANT shall be healed"? Yes, this prayerful response has its origin in the scripture passage of the Roman Centurian's humility and faith, however, at the moment of Communion, I am not having the Eucharist enter into my domiciliary dwelling place, HE is entering into me! So that I, (COMPLETE body, mind, and soul) shall be healed of the ravishes of my sinfulness.
I wonder if they believe this type of change is just going to create minor ripples? IF it is just about more of a Latin reflection, then by all means, change the Lord's Prayer also! Because it is not the same as it would be if it were to reflect the Latin.
IF this change were just to reflect the more accurate translation of Latin, why have they chosen to NOT change the wording of the Lord's Prayer?
Fear of massive schismatic exodous!
As a recent convert to
As a recent convert to Catholicism, some two years now, it has taken me several years to understand and truly mean every word of the mass whether it is the words of the priest or my own responses. I do not utter any part that I do not believe is the truth of my own heart. The new wording of parts of the mass do not reflect the meaning that the previous wording elicited. The words we utter to God must reflect what we intend to convey to him, otherwise they are worse than meaningless. The new mass will be putting words that we do not mean into many of our mouths. Many of the cradle Catholics at my church are unhappy about the change, but simply shrug and say, "There's nothing we can do about it. We just have to accept it. There have been lots of changes in the past." Until I read your varied posts, I thought I was the only person deeply upset by this assault on my dearest form of coming close to God. Is there really nothing that csn be done?
Dear As a recent convert: I'm
Dear As a recent convert:
I'm considering conversion at this time, and am enrolled in RCIA; I came to the Catholic church after finding the protestant church too painfully lacking in fidelity to scripture. I have found such relief from this in the Catholic Church, not to mention the completeness, beauty and grace of Catholic worship. I am concerned now and wonder why the Church is introducing this destabilizing element. It's being minimized in our classes, but I have to say it bothers me. Time will tell, but I find myself considering the more conservative branches of the Church.
As a Catholic, does it matter
As a Catholic, does it matter ? Either way, it's a translation of the original Latin. Translations are always open to interpretation, depending on the translator. When it comes down to it, do you really believe that God care one way or another. Mass is to show our faith in God. I don't really think he's going to be upset it the wording is one way or another. After all, the current mass wasn't a literal translation of the latin anyway, so the new one will be. So you don't like it, deal with it. I've been with my partner for 10 years and the church doesn't approve, but it doesn't stop me from going to church. People need to learn more tolerance for everything.
Does anybody look anything
Does anybody look anything up? They are not changing a darn thing. I found the same translations in my old St. Joseph's Missal. The bishops have nothing better to do than to fiddle faddle around with silliness. How about the controversies of making sure no one is molesting children or that we need to be accepting of "all people?"Since we don't have enough priests, women should be able to be ordained. Let us get in the 21st century! If you want to go back to roots, go back to Jesus. He just said, "Love one another as I have loved you" Pretty simple huh?
I am just writing to let
I am just writing to let people know that the Bishops have not changed much of anything. If you look up in your old 1959 St. Joseph's Missal you will find the same words. They are not changing anything but obviously are not moving to the 21st century. The Bishops should be worried about child molestation and running out of priests. Women should be able to be ordained and we should be accepting of "all people" Jesus' message was simple, "Love one another as I have loved you"
very interesting------love
very interesting------love the variety of comments---by the way--latin was not the first language of the institutional mass---it was greek and people had fits when they switched to the more"vulgar "latin-
Frankly I don't see the big
Frankly I don't see the big deal in the changes to the Mass. I'm not thrilled with the basic premise of change happening when I have known it to be done one way my whole life, but it is what it is, NEWS FLASH, the Catholic Church is NOT a democracy, never has never will. "Truth is not determined by majority vote" Pope Benedict XVI, 2005. The one thing that I am relieved of, is that it will cut out the opportunities for gender neutral/inclusive language in various prayers of the mass. God is the Father, he is not the Mother. At my parish we have been gradually integrating the new prayers/responses for the past four months. It is becoming a little more difficult to respond from memory to the prayers, especially in the reciting of the Gloria, but growing up it was recited "Glory to God in the Highest, and peace to HIS people on earth." Our choir is having diff because methinks they're somewhat tone deaf, but I'd rather hear "... Peace to people of good will," than hear the liturgy bastardized by them saying "...peace to god's people on earth." i'm not sexist, but I despise gender neutral language. Not just in the Mass but in general (eg, its a waitress not a server, nurse not a medical assistant, , stewardess not a flight attendant, etc).
Why not just back to the old
Why not just back to the old Latin Mass? It was the Mass that gave us 2,000 years of Saints. Going back to the old Latin Mass will also help the controversy of people complaining about have an English Mass and a Spanish Mass for two different language groups. What ever happen to “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic”?
Answer to “I am a little confused” many Catholics have left the Church because of the changes and have embraced more traditional Catholic way of life. Even our current Pope has reached out to some of the old Latin Mass groups as well.
Just a Thought!!
Perhaps we Catholics need to
Perhaps we Catholics need to learn from the Lutherans, which indeed celebrate Mass in English, still take Holy Communion at the rail,etc. Being older, having the Mass change time and again from Latin, to this new gobbity gook has so disappointed me in my fervorous adoration of God, I no longer wanna be a part of the clique. Catholics race through the Mass of worship to return back to our lives. We have very few priests who entice us to read the Word, let alone sermon out to us should'a,would'a s. How can our spirits feel anything other than "duty" done? That's not what Catholicism is meant to be.
I shudder as to what our precious Christ thinks of all of this. Another church move to scatter us away even further. My faith is not of any particular celebratory religion anymore. My faith instead has grown immensely with the Word, lotsa prayers, and the Holy Spirit dwelling within me whom I daily if not hourly converse with.He speaks whether directly or indirectly, prodding me on my path to eternity, and not with repeated mandatory church scribed verse. To be truly Christian, study all religions. Christ Himself wasn't Catholic, Baptist,Lutheran or of any other man-made induced practising
clubby. Instead He was Jew, taught everyone,put noone above another, to lead us very sinners back to God Father Creator. Pick up the Bible folks, meditate on it, pray about it, act on what you've learned. This is worship...putting Him in our daily lives about everything. so in closing I add, Another Catholic done gone.
Im glad others think the new
Im glad others think the new change is silly and inncorrect. Our church changed the hyms to modern, which when sung by our choir sounds like opera and no one can understand or participate. now the responsorals are changed so everybody just stands quietly and doesn't participate at all. Its crazy to think this is how you grow as a church, we've lost members.
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