Iran Makes Me Think of the Vatican

A couple big differences:

In Iran, as you note, it is young people agitating for change. In the Church it is the opposite - it is mostly older people who want change. the majority of young people in the Church today reject the "so-called" spirit of Vatican II. Indeed, the life and energy of the Church today is in the orthodox wing.

Second, in Iran, they are seeking true justice. You, on the other, other hand seek a false justice that is based in feminist politics and gender equality. As a man, I cannot, by nature, get pregnant. Women can. Has God, therefore, visited an injustice upon me? Absolutely not. Being called to different roles, does not equal inequality.

For me to rail at the heavens about the injustice of my not being able to become pregnant would be immature and a waste of time.

Excellent commentary. I worry that so much of Catholicism these days seems to be about circling the wagons -- in politics they call it "playing to the base," even as the base shrinks and others run far away.

So as long as we do what you "reformers" want, the Church will be True and at peace right. You are are a yahoo and your words are scandal, just like this website. You are the cream of liberal 'tolerance' that says, "Do what we think is right. If you don't you are intolerant and hateful. Oh, and don't try to disagree with us because that is intolerant and hateful too." Please go and be formed in the history and traditions of the Church and in the ways that have beautifully made the world a better place. I would start with visiting the Catholic Answers website at Catholic.com

I hope to God that today, after watching the murderous violence employed by the Iranian regime against the protesters, your sense of shame has kicked in and you take this post down.

It was silly when you posted it on the 19th. A day later, it's positively obscene.

I too think this is an excellent commentary. We all need to think about the value of justice in our churches. Women have been considered second class citizens and parishoners for too long. Oh in the parish we are always on call for our services in regard to food, shelter, and cleaning but not at the higher levels.

This analogy is disingenuous at best, and hallucinogenic at worst. Did the Swiss Guard pepper you with bullets or take shots at you from passing motorcycles?

I think not. So don't even compare the bodies in the streets of Tehran with what amounts to nothing more than an adolescent hissy fit.

If you don't like the Catholic Church's teachings on women's ordination - or any other theological matter - really, truly, leave. No one is forcing you to stay. Join the Episcopal Church, the Anglicans, the ELCA. Really.

Just take your disdain for the Catholic faith - as well as her orthodox followers - and go elsewhere. That's the honest thing to do. Really make a statement with your feet. Of course, that would knock you down a peg or two and you couldn't make a living bashing Catholicism anymore, and it's much more fun to be a rebel, isn't it?

My femininity isn't contingent on the feminists' notions of "equality" because feminists long ago forgot what it truly means to be a woman and seek to make women men, while making men eunuchs. Neither is my femininity contingent on whether or not I can be a priest. My femininity is a gift from God and - like His Church - has a specific purpose and its unique strengths and weaknesses. I can't be a priest. If your life is shattered by this, seek help and guidance.

My ultimate goal is to get to heaven, and the Sacraments help. Invalidating the Sacraments in the name of political correctness (which is what women's ordination, among other things, does) doesn't serve the souls of the faithful, just an agenda based on a secular "theology" that seeks to serve and soothe not God, but the ego of those who hold Catholicism in blatant contempt.

Unbelievable
NCR has finally jumped the shark on this one, I think. It reflects poorly on the author and also on NCR itself that this tasteless article is still up, after all that has happened in Iran over the last few days. How can people possibly be as out of touch as all this?

(Theocracy. n. government under the control of a church or state-sponsored religion.)

In order for the Vatican NOT to be a theocracy, it would need to be controlled by something other than a religion - i.e. the actual nation would need to be run separate from the church. You don't count the Vatican as a real nation, though, so what can you possibly mean by saying that the Vatican is a theocracy? Even if all of the Catholic Church's decisions were made by a vote of all baptized Catholics, that would still be a theocracy, because church members would still be controlling it.

The only way for a religion not to be a theocracy is for it not to be a religion.

But that aside, here you are, writing your opinion of this Iran-esque theocracy, these absolute religious leaders. You wrote it without worrying about any consequences, physical or psychological. You published it on the Internet, without using a proxy, without worrying that anyone would come by your house or your workplace as a result. You did not need to worry that the Vatican would order the website taken down, and even if this order were issued, you wouldn't have to worry that the website actually would *be* taken down.

If you wanted, you could write a whole book! You could make a video of yourself speaking, or you could have one professionally made. You could go to Rome and march through St. Peter's Square, or you could simply stand in silence, or you could gather at a holy place and pray. At the very most, you might be asked to leave, if you were shouting or blocking traffic, but if you weren't, you would at most be ignored. If you were to become injured or ill while there, you could go to a hospital and receive treatment.

Do you realize that the people to whom you are comparing yourself can't do those things? That the reason they're using Twitter and Youtube is because they don't have any other way to let anyone know what's going on? That they're using proxies because otherwise they couldn't access the Internet at all? That they're using pseudonyms because otherwise they might be shot, and their families charged for the bullet? That if they get hit with a pvc pipe full of cement, or a rock, or a bullet, or a tear gas canister, or boiling water full of caustic chemicals, they can't go to a hospital because they'll be arrested while there?

Shame on you.

NCR continues to grow more and more vitriolic and ridiculous as each day passes and is lashing out like a cornered animal. That cornered animal is the so called false "Spirit of Vatican II" which is on its way to extinction. The young people do not want your trite and sappy music, they do not want your Cathedrals that look like spaceships, they do not want your theology of moral relativism. The hippies and liberals from the 60's and 70's are a dying breed while our seminaries are full of vibrant, traditional, and orthodox young men who are loyal to the Holy Father and to the teachings of the church. Your time is over. Deal with it.