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PDF versionBishops' liturgy debate ends in whimper rather than a bang
by John L Allen Jr on Jun. 18, 2009
Following the most protracted public debate of their June 17-19 spring meeting, the U.S. bishops were unable to make a final decision about four new translations of texts for the Roman Missal, the collection of prayers for use in the Catholic Mass.
Those texts, a set of Masses and prayers for various needs and intentions, represent the latest stage of more than a decade of struggle known colloquially as the “liturgy wars.”
Those debates pitted one camp favoring a contemporary and accessible translation against another seeking a more “sacred” and traditional text, closer to the Latin originals. In that sense, the “liturgy wars” are related to deeper tensions in the church surrounding Catholic identity.
In broad strokes, the camp favoring a more traditional text, with Rome's backing, has had the upper hand since the late 1990s, and the texts considered by the bishops in San Antonio bear that stamp.
The four texts up for consideration today were:
* Masses and prayers for various needs and intentions
* Votive Masses and Masses for the dead
* Ritual Masses
* The Order of Mass II
Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, a longtime advocate of a more contemporary style, opposed the new translations.
“I say yes to translations faithful to the Latin,” Trautman said, “but I say no to incomplete sentences, no to thirteen lines in one sentence, no to archaic phrases and texts that aren’t proclaimable, intelligible, or pastorally sensitive to our people.”
“The texts aren’t ready,” Trautman said.
Bishop Victor Galeone of Saint Augustine, Florida, pointed to negative reaction in South Africa when, by accident, the new texts were accidentally put into use ahead of final Roman approval. He said that one report indicated that "priests and people were up in arms."
"I fear that what occurred there could happen in 2010, 2011, or 2012 here in the United States," Galeone said. "It doesn't seem like proper English."
Archbishop Oscar Lipscomb, emeritus of Mobile, Alabama, argued that it was time to approve the texts after "eight years of revisions and revisions."
"I think Rome is getting tired of our hunting for reasons to delay, and they're insisting that we move on to catechesis," Lipscomb said.
Bishop Arthur Serratelli of Paterson, New Jersey, chair of the bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, argued that Rome appears determined to have the new Roman Missal completed by 2010, so that if the U.S. bishops drag their heels, they risk "losing the opportunity to influence these translations."
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Archbishop Alfred Hughes, emeritus of New Orleans, argued that while “no text is imperfect,” the new translations do a good job of reflecting a translation style “not just faithful to the Latin text, but to the doctrinal meaning and to the scriptural and patristic references it contains.”
“It uses a sacral language that stretches us,” he said, “that’s poetic and elevates the spirit.”
Archbishop Henry Mansell of Hartford, Connecticut, said that many of the prefaces in the new texts are actually incomplete sentences, which in some cases run on at great length. While not necessarily opposing the translation, Mansell asked if the bishops "can have confidence" that the problem will be fixed in Rome.
Otherwise, the result could be "truly embarrassing," Mansell said.
Serratelli responded that the observation would be passed along.
In the end, all four votes were inconclusive, and thus the outcome will have to be settled by mail-in ballots from bishops who weren’t present in San Antonio. Since the final tally fell just short of approval in each case, most observers expect that the texts will eventually be accepted.
Last year, a similar vote on another proposed text for the Mass, the Proper of Seasons, similarly fell short of approval during the bishops' assembly, but was eventually passed by mail ballot.
I can hardly wait till the
I can hardly wait till the abysmal translation that we now have is nothing more than a bad memory. I can hardly wait until the prayers actually say what they are supposed to say. I can hardly wait until we have a complete theology that is taught during the Mass, and not the nonsense we have to hear every weekend.
If the bishops cannot make up their mind, then the heck with them. Let the Holy See implement a translation that is faithful to the Latin and faithful to Catholic doctrine and tradition and be done with it!
God bless Bishop Serratelli for taking on this thankless job and doing it so well. Now, I wait in anticipation for the Holy See to say "Enough. Here is the translation and being using it on this date. End of discussion".
my cherished brother
my cherished brother Clint,
Solution:
Go to the Spanish Mass!
Go to the Spanish Parish!
Spanish, near daughter of Latin, is a language for prayer. English, a hybrid, divides; Spanish magically unites, in prayer.
And while there please continue your admirable and courageous and Biblically correct mission of feeding the hungry, giving snactuary to the alien in our midst, visiting the sick, sheltering the homeless, liberating the improsined and oppressed, etc.
And let us join in fervent prayer the USCCB drops these time waster matters and gets back to writing what we most need now: powerful statements condemning war, nuclear and other weapons, the economy of war which divides so strongly a few super wealthy from the mass of poor and unemployed, on IMMIGRATION (as our US Roman Catholic Church grows far less anglo and far more Latino), etc., etc.
Why no outcry for further matters of faith and morals from the USCCB? Are they not reading their Reverend Father Charles Curran?
Might I also suggest to you the excellent theological works of our wonderful new US Ambassador to the Vatican, Dr. Miguel Diaz, in particular his On Being Human, which reveals he has much more of the Jesuit Father Rahner (and of Cardinal van Balthazar) than the Reverend Father Gustavo Gutierrez, despite the NCR's MSW's early assumptions. It would make GREAT reading at table in Saint Meinrad's to which I send a hearty embreace!
your poorest servant
frer charles
The Bishops' group doesn't
The Bishops' group doesn't understand plain English when numerous victims have complained to them about clerical sexual abusers for decades either. So it's no surprise that they want to render the Liturgical prayers into murky unintelligible mumblings, parroted by rote by dumb sheep in the pews...
"Why did you cover up these crimes for decades??? Can't you feel the pain of the victims outweighs the feelings of the perpetrators???
"Why are the supervisors (the Bishops who covered up for the crooks) not punished as well by Rome, as well as by the civil authorities???"
Ironically, B16 just recently praised Sts Cyril & Methodius for insisting that the theology of the times be translated into the native languages of the new converts, rather than having the new converts learn Latin or Greek!
I am grateful for the few
I am grateful for the few Bishops who have tried to be a voice of reason with regard to the ongoing translation of the Roman Missal. It's obvious that the majority of Bishops simply want to "move on." I guess standing up for the liturgical principles which flowed from an Ecumenical Council (Vatican II) and the DOGMATIC Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy is of little consequence to most!
On one side of their mouths, the Holy Father and our Bishops voice concern for the thousands of Catholics leaving the Church for a variety of evangelical Christian Churches. Their response, on the other side, is to transform our Eucharistic celebration into something more formal, cumbersome, and archaic and foreign in language and style.
It doesn't take much insight to see that our Catholics are leaving for and are attracted to Churches that are more welcoming, intelligible and informal in style and language. Just the opposite of the direction our Bishops are leading us. Once again, our bishops "just don't get it."
Now that we have been living with a Scripture translation that is often unintelligible and cumbersome to proclaim and receive, we will have a sacramentary that will be a perfect match! The blood will be on the hands of our Bishops for this liturgical abuse.
The reason why, some
The reason why, some Catholics leave, for the more informal, emotional and subjective- feel good services of Evangelicals, is not because the mass is too formal but too familiar. Why stay a Catholic, when your getting the same subjectivity and non-theological clarity, that is offered across the street?
I for one, am a former evangelical, who became Catholic, because of the beauty of her Tradition, and fullness of Christian truth that she contains. A translation more accurate and faithful to the Latin will be a breath of fresh air.
It is telling how Clint
It is telling how Clint provided a well written, strong comment (and actually used a name), then there is anonymous, who I can ascertain (forgive me if I am wrong) is a more liberal member of the church or other faith tradition, and believes that the church needs to "get with the times". Anon's comment was full of mud-slinging and double-negatives (rhetorical language at best). I am a convert to the church, when will the bishops realize that since the false interpretations of VII, the church has lost an exponential number of it's members; we need tradition, bold teaching, music that lifts our minds to heaven (not a kumbaya session)and bishops who appreciate the richness of tradition our church provides. I live in the world everyday, the last thing I need on Sunday, is a mass that feels and sounds like a service down at the local community center. WE ARE NOT STUPID WE CAN UNDERSTAND LATIN!!!!!!!
Tell me, Dan: when you have
Tell me, Dan: when you have your private prayer time, is it in Latin?
I thought so.
Why should our public prayer as a community be in a language that you wouldn't use privately?
And the use of "kumbaya" as a pejorative for church music has gotten so old and shopworn that it has lost any value it once may have had.
When is the last time you heard "Kumbaya" in a mass you attended? I'll bet it isn't even used around Boy and Girl Scout campfire.
Dear Jim, I hate to share
Dear Jim,
I hate to share something so personal, but in fact, to answer your good question: "when you have your private prayer time, is it in Latin?" I must answer in all honesty yes.
Already a few times today and as often as possible: The Pater, the Ave and the Gloria, ended with a silent In Nomine, as often as possible with other prayers such as the Magnificat and the Miserere (If only I had someone to share Compline with!).
Thus this morning standing in the Cathedral of Ciudad Juarez, and three times a day in our little desert prayer garden, and in our local Parish Chapel in Mexico.
I must confess: yes.
Of course, with the public liturgies I am privileged to join being in Spanish, I often begin the Ave in Latin and the response in Spanish, and a mix of the two sometimes appear, each fervently prayed.
Therefore I find this whole English translation thing absurd, jst another reason for US Bishops to battle when they ought to be writing POWERFUl position papers on immigration (open the doors, tear down the walls and pay your workers - Mr. Prewsident - Tear Down This Wall!), on economics goind further than what has been previously written, on war (no more war), on arms (much clearer than the previous with no shadow of a doubt and in line with JPII's declaration that a just war is impossible in the modern world), on hand guns (don't own one), on the death penalty in line with the Vatican's declaration reported in this great NCR that capital punishment is murder, etc.
Instead they argue for an unintelligible English interpretation . . . to muddy the waters further. Maybe the hybrid English is the tongue of war, not prayer . . .
But, then, I also still sing Kumbaya, holding hands, in Church, in Spanish now, and find no fault in this . . .
In fact I just heard it this weekend.
Try it; you'll like it. God will . . .
I have always wondered at the
I have always wondered at the rejection of the beautiful hymn Kumbaya (Come by here, Oh Lord!) in anglo-only churches. Is it because this hymn was written by African slaves in the USA?
We still sing it, in Spanish now, and always will . . .
It has much to say, much to teach, and much that lies laden in our oppressed hearts which find voice only through this beautiful hymn, sung together, in Church, together.
It is holy Church music. Why don't the anglo do as well, but fight one another instead?
By the way Clint's comment as always is deeply problematic, and misses the point. Why isn't the USCCB busy with matters of greater import, such as war and the economy, and immigration? What will Jesus say?
For Fr. Vincent I would like
For Fr. Vincent I would like him to know that the horrible scripture translation we use is the product of bishops like Trautman. We could use the excellent RSVCE 2nd edition, but the USCCB gets money for the NAB for which they own the copyright. If the liberals had simply accepted the fact that new solid translations were going to happen and cooperated we would not have had to wait so long. But they were determined to fight and destroy as much of the translation as they could. A burnt field strategy. I did not hear liberals crying for the faithful when the Mass was changed from Latin to English. They delighted in running parishioners out of the Church if they didn't like the English Mass. Now they shed crocodile tears. People are not leaving the Catholic Church because of how we translate the Mass. They leave because some priest dresses like Barney the dinosaur and preaches on being green rather then on Jesus Christ. If we follow Pope Benedict we will be heading in the right direction.
'They leave because some
'They leave because some priest dresses like Barney the dinosaur and preaches on being green rather then on Jesus Christ. If we follow Pope Benedict we will be heading in the right direction.'
Bravo, Anonymous! And AMEN!
Please, anonymous and friend,
Please, anonymous and friend, please tell me where in the world you have ever encountered "some priest dresses like Barney the dinosaur and preaches on being green rather then on Jesus Christ" and people fleeing in tears?
Anyway, wasn't Barney purple, and Kermit green?
Wasn't in fact Jesus "green" in the pro-life sense?
Don't we more properly write: "rather than?"
just wondering
(wow, where can I see THAT liturgy?)
your poorest servant
Frère Charles du Désert OSB Oblat (Subiaco Congregation)
Fr. Vincent, after reading
Fr. Vincent, after reading your comments I pray for you and your parishioners. You have completely misdiagnosed the problem: you are the problem! Parishioners are leaving the Catholic Church because the faith was severely comprised in a misguided effort to be more "welcoming, intelligible and informal in style and language." Your "spirit of VII" ilk highjacked the implementation of the Council and now B16 is trying desperately to correct this aggressive overreach that has occured over the last 40 years. Those parishes that are more traditional, and orthodox in their practices and liturgy are growing and more alive. I know most modernists priests like yourself would weep to see the huge number of parishioners who attend first Friday, Firt Saturday devotions and holy days of obligation at the traditional latin mass community in our town. (Heck, most modernist priest can barely get parishioners out for a typical sunday mass) While the modernists priests offers mass to an empty church on the feast of the assumption (Hmmm??? Where are all those people you claim who are looking for a church that is 'welcoming, intelligible and informal in style and language') the traditional latin mass priest offers to a packed house. While the modernists priest sits in his empty confessional for only 30 minutes on a single Saturday afternoon, the traditional priest has a full confessional 7 days a week as he offers confession before each daily mass. It's sad, because the modernist priest and traditional priest share the same church and the contrast in Catholicity is so painfully stark. Each day more and more young families join the Latin Mass community. (The Catholic youth are starved for tradition; they can't get enough of it!) The modernist priest really has to worry if anyone is going to show up for things like feast of the immaculate conception when the traditional priest wouldn't even think of worrying about something like that. The modernist priest hasn't had a corpus christi procession or a May crowning in over 25 years, meanwhile the traditional latin community has these great Catholic things each year. I'm not a traditionalist, I'm a reform-of-the-reform kind of guy who has nothing against the ordinary form of the Roman Rite, but people have defintely highjacked the Novus Ordo mass, and sacred tradition needs to return. Your attempts to be 'welcoming, intelligible and informal in style and language' have destroyed faith in the Real Presence and has been the ruin of Catholic souls. People leave the Catholic Church because it has tried to 'out Protestant' the Protestants; you can't beat them at their own game. Trying to make the Catholic church more Protestant, only encourages people to leave the Church. Why would anyone want to be Catholic, when even most Catholic churches barely look or feel Catholic???? Society should change and become like the Church. The Church should not change and become like Society.
PS I also pray for whichever seminary you graduated from, because if this is the education and catechesis that you recieved to defend and evangelize the Catholic faith, then our Church is in worst condition than originally thought.
Oh you den of vipers, you in the Church who hate sacred tradition! May B16 reform the coldness of your hearts! Our Lady of Victory, pray for us!
How foolish. Was any
How foolish. Was any consideration given 40 years ago to simply tossing aside what had been used for centuries? There can be no sympathy with arguments decrying "what will the people say" when we older Catholics were subjected to the worse kind of pandering by clergy seeking to be "relevant."
Dear St. Christopher, I guess
Dear St. Christopher,
I guess you as well were then tossed aside, although saints of legend with much less historicity have since been accepted.
Please tell me, could you forty years ago hear with understanding the chanting of the Collects?
I guess with these run-on sentence fragments which will now strap the US anglo CAtholic Church we will find even less comprehension of what we are praying for available.
Solution:
GO to the Spanish Mass!
Dear Mr. Reed, I will pray
Dear Mr. Reed,
I will pray for you as well. You seem to express a great deal of anger and numerous misconceptions.
Perhaps your experience is limited by geography or city life? I'm at a loss to understand your generalized statements about empty Churches.
Being a member of a religious order, I have the regular opportunity of visiting and celebrating the Eucharist in parishes throughout the East Coast. I have personally witnessed very vibrant and overflowing Churches....perhaps not in our major cities where the demographics have changed...but certainly in the suburbs where many of our Catholic families have moved and are raising their children.
The more dynamic parishes I have experienced, and they are many, are those which have embraced the Novus Ordo and the Second Vatican Council in all their richness. They are truly faith communities where lay ministry is embraced, faith formation (including adult faith formation) is emphasized, and where liturgies are welcoming and intelligible. The participation of the laity in the life of these parishes and while celebrating the Eucharist is considerable. They have a sense of ownership and commitment as a faith community which even shows itself (quite naturally) in their generous contributions on a weekly basis. Even to the point where no fundraisers or bingo games are necessary. The parish is supported by the collection plate on Sunday alone!
By their fruit, you shall know them. I guess that's the real test of authentic worship....are the fruits of the spirit evident beyond the liturgy and the devotional life of a faith community? The parishes I have encountered that possess the above characteristics and have implemented the Novus Ordo in it's richness are bearing great fruit.
On the other hand, while you are apparently fed with the wealth of Church's tradition in language (Latin), devotions, and rites....your commentary above betrays a person filled with anger, divisiveness and a definite lack of charity. These are certainly "fruits" of another sort.
My prayers are with you.
Dear Father Vincent, Of which
Dear Father Vincent,
Of which community are you member, if I might ask . . .
My experience of demographic shifts in our large urban centers brought in great populations of Spanish speaking peoples from various nations, including Puerto Rican, Cuban, Peruvian in great numbers, Mexican, Dominican, etc. I urge you to attend and to celebrate their vibrant Catholic liturgies, as theirs is the earliest Catholicism to these shores, and will remain long after the anglo passion has passed.
Thus I find question when you write: "Being a member of a religious order, I have the regular opportunity of visiting and celebrating the Eucharist in parishes throughout the East Coast. I have personally witnessed very vibrant and overflowing Churches....perhaps not in our major cities where the demographics have changed...but certainly in the suburbs where many of our Catholic families have moved and are raising their children."
Please. stay in our cities. Learn Spanish. IT is a phonetic language and thus reads exactly as it is written with few exceptions. I highly recommend it. YOu could easily "read" the Mass without fully understanding at first, just as it was with Latin. I urge you to remain with our people, our most vibrant and living Faith community. YOu might first wish to study closely the writings of our new US Ambassador to the Vatican, including On Being Human.
please pray for me,
suffocated in the suburbs, I now attend Mass for several years in Mexico, and it is wonderful and alive.
your poorest servant always,
Frère Charles du Désert OSB Oblat (Subiaco Congregation)
Brought up in the Latin Mass
Brought up in the Latin Mass and easily moved into the English version in the 60's and never looked back. The beauty of the mass in english is still exhilarating and provocative after more than 40 years. The seeming simplicity of the words beguiles the breath and depth of their meaning and never ceases to amaze. A number of our dear bishops seem to be stuck in a world that no longer exists except in their own minds. Our church is moving forward; get on board or be left behind. And remember, Spanish is "their" native language, as English is mine. Spanish is a beautiful language for those who are literate in it; for this anglo, English is my "beautiful" language. Adios! Vaya con Dios!
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