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PDF versionBishops gear up to oppose same-sex marriage
by John L Allen Jr on Jun. 17, 2009
Facing a growing political ferment across America around same-sex marriage, including six states that have recognized homosexual marriage and others that have adopted domestic partnership acts, the U.S. bishops this afternoon pondered how to get out their message in defense of traditional heterosexual marriage.
The Ad-Hoc Committee in Defense of Marriage presented four key points the bishops hope to make:
• Marriage is inherently related to the sexual difference between men and women.
• Marriage is ordered to the good of children. (“A culture that welcomes the child is a culture that welcomes hope,” said Archbishop Joseph Kurtz of Louisville, chair of the ad-hoc committee.)
• Marriage by its nature is restricted to one man and one woman, and saying so is not a matter of unjust discrimination. (“The church deplores all violence and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons, but to treat marriage differently is not unjust discrimination,” Kurtz said. “It stems from the nature of marriage itself, and the state has a positive duty to uphold this fundamental institution.”)
• Legalizing same-sex marriage has consequences for religious freedom, such as the prospect that people opposed in conscience might be compelled into cooperation with it. (Kurtz said there are already plenty of “real-life examples” of that coercion.)
Kurtz presented these points to the fully body of bishops this afternoon. He said the committee is contracting with professional communications firms to try to package these points successfully, including the production of a series of videos and brochures.
Kurtz said the bishops hope to make their pitch to two key groups: Young adults aged 18-29, with a special focus on Latinos; and priests and catechists across the country. Those choices, Kurtz said, were shaped by consultations the ad-hoc committee has carried out, which, he said, revealed that “priests often hesitant to preach about defense of marriage.”
In discussing these efforts, Kurtz offered a special thank-you to the Knights of Columbus, which has provided funding for the Ad-Hoc Committee in Defense of Marriage.
Archbishop Michael Sheehan of Santa Fe, New Mexico, pointed out that efforts in his state to resist same-sex legislation were buoyed by cooperation with Evangelicals and other Christian groups such as Baptists. Kurtz agreed, saying such ecumenical alliances tend to be especially effective on the state level.
NCR: February 3-16, 2012
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New study by Notre Dame researcher about parish involvement in America
Kurtz also brought the conference up to date on efforts to draft a pastoral letter on marriage from the U.S. bishops. He said that a final draft of the document should be presented to the full body of bishops at their November meeting.
As the laws currently exist,
As the laws currently exist, religious proscriptions masquerading as cultural or traditions norms impose restrictions on a portion of society that does not agree with nor observe these proscriptions.
When a Jewish adolescents 13, they heads to a temple for a deeply meaningful rite of passage, their bar or bat mitzvah. When a Catholic reaches about the same age, she or he stands in front of the local bishop, who touches them forehead with holy oil as they are confirmed into a 2,000-year-old faith tradition. But missing in each of those cases — and in countless others of equal religious importance — is any role for government. There is no baptism certificate issued by the local courthouse and no federal tax benefit attached to the confessional booth, the into-the-water-and-out born-again ceremony or any of the other sacraments that believers hold sacred. Only marriage gets that treatment, and it's a "tradition" that should be abandoned by the State.
I have yet to hear a compelling argument why my 37-year relationship with my partner in any way diminishes the value of anyone’s marriage or family stability to the point of justifying the denial to us of equal protection under the law. This relationship has survived and thrived in spite of our Catholic Church and, quite frankly, we don’t care whether the church approves of our relationship or not.
The time has come: anyone who wants to get married should be able to obtain a State-granted civil license that confers all of the legal rights, privileges and obligations that currently come with marriage. These are SECULAR benefits granted by the STATE and not any religious group. Access to them should not be controlled by religion of any stripe.
Religions would lose nothing of their role in sanctioning the kinds of unions that they find in keeping with their beliefs. For nonbelievers and those who find the word marriage less important, the civil license issued by the State would be all they needed to unlock the benefits reserved in most states and in federal law for married couples.
That has been done in most of Europe for many years and life as we know it has not ended.
Same-sex Marriage does need
Same-sex Marriage does need detailed discussions within the USCCB.
However, the Bishops ought to resist the temptation of reaching only for the "low-hanging" fruit that grabs "media attention", while IGNORING the other FOUR of their FIVE priorities:
1. Cultural Diversity in the Church,
2. Faith Formation and Sacramental Practice,
3. Life and Dignity of the Human Person,
4. Strengthening Marriage and
5. Promotion of Vocations to the Priesthood and Consecrated Life.
It is important too that ALL of the Bishops (not a few only) find new ways to communicate within the Church. These “new ways” not only include the social networks the younger generation frequent, but also the devices they use to access them, like their BlackBerry, iPod or G1 phone.They ought to address as to how best to use Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and other social tools and networks, as they are able to meaningfully connect especially with the youth.
May God guide our Bishops to find new ways and means to further the spread of the "GOOD NEWS" especially to the next generation.
God bless,
MOSES
It is our moral obligation to
It is our moral obligation to speak up when our clergy cross the lines between what Our Lord spoke to us about and actions against out temporal states. Please speak up. Do not let despicable actions of some of the church leaders go unchallenged. I had spoken to our pastor several times about his political heavy handedness.
I finally wrote and hand delivered the following letter to our priests. He has been driving people out of our parish by what is perceived as hate speech.
Dear Msgr. ------ and Rev. ------;
Please give some thought to the message I am trying to convey and pay little attention to my form.
re. Priests and Pedophilia
We hear about the sins of so many priests who have molested young children. (The number is not important because two is too many.) These sins have been compounded by wrong actions and attitudes within the Church. We also read about predatory heterosexual and homosexual activity inside the ranks of the clergy.
Fortunately, Our Church Fathers have appointed people within and without the Church to work hard and honorably toward the elimination of this scourge.
Unfortunately, the more the scandals are mentioned in the press, even when it seems appropriate, the more they are used to attack our religion, its representatives and those who love God. These press reports create fodder for those who are already angry with the Church. Then, demagogues turn our angry catholics into catholic loathing followers of their hate-mongering.
Now, many more Americans treat the Church with disdain.
It seems the damage done to our Church is in three forms:
1.) Sad: Rightly or wrongly, the fodder has been used to create higher settlements than might be expected, bankrupting many parishes and some dioceses in the USA. At least this harm is only money.
2.) Sadder: We know that innocent priests and other religious have been physically harmed by people whose hate has deepened because of the scandals. These acts against individuals are persecutions which should be a concern to all people of whatever faith.
3.) Saddest: The greatest damage is to the Church's moral standing even among its own followers.
Thus, issues that started as righteous grievances against individual priests and bishops of the Church have turned into symbols and ultimate justifications for nationwide “catholic” groups to treat all priests as potential pedophiles and our bishops as probable pedophiles as well as accomplice and enablers of pedophiles.
It is easy to see that the continual press releases of pedophilia issues maintains and broadens the opportunities to damage the Church. This is especially true when articles and multimedia discussions are simply rehashing old news.
*** These attacks against our church make us understand the damage that can be done by people of hate. ***
The whole world has witnessed the evil that comes from anti-Antisemitism. Hitler's final solution was just the worst of it. Although gas chambers have been eliminated, there are people whose hatred of Jews lies only below the surface. It can rise up again at any moment to attack individual Jews anywhere.
Even the Vatican understands that the now rejected but previously continual statements of many Church leaders saying “Jesus was killed by the Jews” contributed fodder to anti-Semites.
Religious Intolerance is the Second most frequent reason for hate crimes in America.
__________________________________________________
Up to last year's statistics, racial discrimination seems to be lessening in America. Perhaps this trend is helped by the lower tolerance that the general public has for racial hate speech. The general intolerance of racism has lead to the election of someone other than a purely white man. Even those who do not like our president, understand that America has moved forward, in a positive way, on racial issues. Yet, the problem has not gone away.
Racial Bigotry is the Number One reason for hate crimes in America.
__________________________________________________
We in Fairfield County Connecticut are witnesses to the evil that hatred of Americans can do. We saw that in New York City. American history is replete with intolerance between differing nationalities; the Irish and Italians, Polish and Italians and everybody against the Germans and Japanese in times of war. These are just a few divides that are common to our history.
There are other separations between groups that are not actually racial, religious or national. These may fall into the broader ethnic category.
National Origin and Ethnicity are the Fourth & Fifth greatest causes of hate crimes in America.
__________________________________________________
What is the Point of the Truths Noted Above?
The continuous separating-out and harangue against homosexuals and homosexual acts, in statements from the pulpit or through the bulletin of this parish and from the diocese, becomes the precursors of hate speech if not hate speech itself. These statements are used to justify all manor of injuries to homosexuals.
The Church teaches that excepting in marriage and then only with the purpose and possibility of procreation, all sexual activity is sinful. It therefore teaches that sexual acts between other consenting adults are mortally morally wrong. Why are gays so singled out?
In accordance to the actual words of Our Lord, are consenting adult homosexuals having sex with one another at greater risk of loosing their immortal souls than opposite-sex adulterers and fornicators?
There is much more that can be said on this subject, but suffice it to say: “If you can understand that continuous harping about pedophilia within the priesthood helps create the atmosphere wherein people feel justified in their attacks against religious people and property, then that which contributes to actions against gays should now be obvious to you as well.”
Homosexual & Trans gender issues are the THIRD most frequent causes for hate crimes in America.
“Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
“Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.”
After I signed the letter I added the following:
P.S. Of course, pedophilia is by its nature either heterosexual or homosexual.
However, by their natures, neither heterosexual nor homosexual behaviors equate pedophilia.
This distinction becomes very blurred in the minds of many people.
This blur is intended by many who utter homophobic hate speech.
With respect,
Signed using my Real Name
Time for America's GAY
Time for America's GAY CATHOLIC BISHOPS, ARCHBISHOPS and CARDINALS to stand up and come out of the closet.
ARE AMERICAN BISHOPS GAY?
March 7, 2009
In 2004 a reliable source of information about the Catholic Church made me aware of a document about the American hierarchy that was composed by a small group of insiders including at least one bishop. That document claimed and named 134 bishops that they said were homosexual in orientation or behavior. Several times over the past years I have asked one of the sources to make the list public and to take responsibility for its conclusions. I am told that every one of the authors wants to preserve his anonymity because of his position and employment.
For the moment, suspend judgment or arguments about numbers or sources, accuracy or validation of the list. One does not have to depend on that document to say responsibly that, “Yes, some U. S. bishops are gay and have been sexually active”. What does the fact of the existence of the question mean? The question about the sexuality of bishops is complex, but it is by no means prurient or peripheral to the sexual crisis in the American church—and to the authentic teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Whatever one’s opinion, the question is dangerous, but it is necessary to address openly.
The sexual crisis confronting the Roman Catholic Church is central to its mission of salvation to modern civilization. The crisis of sexual abuse is merely one aspect of the unaddressed sexual concerns of the church. The agenda vitally impinges on the question of humanity and Christian life. Already in 1986 theologian William Shea listed what he called the tangle of issues that religious leadership has failed to credibly and honestly face up to and deal with. No one has identified the reality of the challenges better or more succinctly: They are: family life, divorce and remarriage, premarital and extramarital sex, birth control, abortion, homosexuality, masturbation, the role of women in the ministry, their ordination to the priesthood, the celibacy of the clergy, the male monopoly of leadership. Some have suggested that sex is, at bottom, the issue that clogs up our Catholic calendar. Fear of women, and perhaps hatred of them, may well be just what we have to work out of the Catholic system.[1] The sexual behavior and orientation of the hierarchy are essential questions to address and relevant to understand the “how’s” and “why’s” of the clergy sexual abuse crisis as well as the sexual agenda that faces the Church.
Richard is still working on this article.
[1] Commonweal. November 7, 1986
Copyright © Richard Sipe - all rights reserved
I can appreciate the bishops'
I can appreciate the bishops' concerns over same-sex marriage and their efforts to defend traditional marriage. Yet, in all their teaching, I have yet to find something that really makes the case that same-sex marriage will destroy, or at least negatively impact, heterosexual marriage.
Do the bishops think that if same-sex marriage is allowed heterosexuals will start contracting homosexual marriages?
And if there is such a strong desire to preserve heterosexual marriage and the tradtional family, why don't the bishops work to change the divorce laws, especailly "no-fault" divorce laws?
I agree that not supporting same-sex marriage is not the same as discriminating against homosexuals...but the arguments the bishops are making in defense of their positions do not seem to be making the point that has to be made...respecting the complexities and nuances of human sexuality and the desire (God-given) that people have to form family.
But this campaign is
But this campaign is discrimination against homosexuals. It prevents couples who have genuine love for each other from enjoying the state and federal benefits and responsibilities that come from a public commitment to the partnership.
No one is asking for sacramental marriage because no secular benefits acrue from a sacramental marriage.
I think the real answer for this crusade is in the words of Bishop Kurtz, it's about the unholy alliance between Catholicism and Evangelicals. When a bishop can state they are targeting youth and hispanics for this specific message, they are not talking about unity in Christ. They are talking about fostering division for the sake of regressive social engineering.
OOOPS, I meant Sheehan of
OOOPS, I meant Sheehan of Santa Fe, not Kurtz of Louisville. My bad.
As the laws currently exist,
As the laws currently exist, religious proscriptions masquerading as cultural or traditional norms impose restrictions on a portion of society that does not agree with nor observe these proscriptions.
I have yet to hear a compelling argument why my 37-year relationship with my partner in any way diminishes the value of anyone’s marriage or family stability to the point of justifying the denial to us of equal protection under the law. We have survived as a couple for these many years without the slightest encouragement or support from the Catholic Church and, quite frankly, could care less about that.
It is time to get the State out of the marriage business, and to get religious organizations out of the business of determining who may and may not have SECULAR benefits provided by the State and the State alone.
The time has come: anyone who wants to get married must obtain a State-granted civil license which confers all of the legal rights, privileges and obligations that currently come with marriage. Thereafter, anyone who wants a religious ceremony or the equivalent can do so with the religious group of their choice. That has been done in most of Europe for many years and life as we or they know it has not ended.
Why is that people are in
Why is that people are in favor of something they call "marriage," but no one cares to define the term? I have a pretty good understanding of my own definition of marriage (no need to repeat it here). What I am keenly interested in hearing from the previous posters is what their definition of marriage and family is.
While our bishops speak out
While our bishops speak out about the sanctity of hetero-sexual marriage and the rights of the unborn, let them also demand the support for equal civil rights of same-sex couples.
Ecclesiastical courts are busy enough dealing with doubtful sacramental heterosexual marriages. I can't imagine any committee of the USCCB wanting to engage in the development of canonical legislation regulating civil same-sex unions. The Bishops Committee on the Liturgy and ICEL have a hard enough time agreeing on an English translation of the Latin texts of the Roman Missal. How could they possibly find the time to develop a Rite of Blessing of a same-sex union?
The gospels highlight occasions where Jesus spoke positively of marriage. How- ever, Jesus never says anything about homosexuality. Would any sane person oblige a homosexual man or woman to live in a hetero-sexual marriage? Such attempts are patently illicit.
Some ecclesial questions need open discussion: 'Are all same-sex relationships essentially evil?' 'How can the Church proclaim the universal call to holiness of all men and women - no matter their personally claimed sexuality?' 'In the hope of Resurrection, how can we use language to cultivate responsible sexual behavior.'
I am sick of the wishy-washy
I am sick of the wishy-washy USCCB bemoaning the facts about 'same-sex marriage', stem-call issues, and 'anti-life' issues, when they put forth the 'Obama'nable 'Fathiful Citizenship' guideline for voters prior to the November election. What in the world did they expect? - after confusing the faithful with such 'hogwash!'
In our diocese (Evansville), our pastors were forbidden to distribute anything remotely or clearly Catholic - like 'Voters Guidelines for Serious Catholics.' They had to distri1bute that USCCB nonsense.
Most of our Bishops have let us down - thank God for the faithful few....
TO THE BISHOPS, Marriage is
TO THE BISHOPS,
Marriage is supposed to be about LOVE. Marriages don't fall apart because of gays. They fall apart from a lack of love. There is no mention of that by the Bishops. What a cop out to blame it on gays!!! Nobody in their right mind believes in what the Bishops are saying about gays. Most people are gifted with wisdom about gays that they are not disordered, they are ordered in a way that you are not familiar and you refuse to understand. When you say that gays are disordered, you are saying that God must be disordered. Their design is ordered by God and not by man's designs.
Marriage is about two people who fall in LOVE. They fall in love. They fall in love. They love each other. They have passionate love and concern and care for one another. They love each other so much that they can't stand to be living without each other. They build a life together. They go through deaths in their families and births together. They have hardships and they have joys. Maybe if you actually TAUGHT what LOVE is and ACT in LOVE there might be more LOVE in the world and less marriages breaking up. Perhaps if people in their own marriages actually demonstrated love there children would learn how to love. What is missing in all failures in relationships is love.
You bishops are no help. You are as ridiculous as the SSPX priests who spew their lies of hatred towards Jews and deny the holocaust. You are no better. You spew your hatred and lies towards gays and deny them even secular rights. You lie and tell people they are not worthy of the same benefits as heterosexuals. The main benefit of marriage is LOVE and a partner in life. It is not ALL about having children. That is only PART of it. If people can't have children they are not denied Marriage or the ability to love each other as a couple. The rule has been if two people are in LOVE that they should get married. That's all gays want to do. They want the same rights as heterosexual couples have when they fall in love. Some of these gay relationships have lasted a heck of a lot longer than heterosexual marriages. Perhaps heterosexuals could learn something from them. It is absolutely no threat to heterosexual marriages for gay couples to love each other and marry.
I am really pissed that the Pharisaic Bishops are going to be spending money that should go to the poor who are living in Tent Cities in the US all over the country and they are going to waste it on some homophobic propaganda machine to teach people to HATE gays and tell youth that gays are disordered, even though that is not true. Nice going Bishops! Why don't you join the nazi party while you are at it!!!?? Show them some films of nazi propaganda.
Bishops, if you can't love, get out of everybody's business. If you can't love, get out of the State's business. If you can't love, get out of our business and put the focus back on you and what you need to address which is your homophobia and misogyny and pedophile enabling. You are nothing but a bunch of narcissistic low lifes intent on making other people miserable because you are miserable failures in your own life. The failure is that you have not been teaching about Jesus Christ. You've been politicking. You've been crusading. You've been hiding pedophiles. You have abandoned Jesus Christ. You have lost your way and for a few pieces of silver you have abandoned Jesus. You've abandoned people and you are not loving people. You follow Canon Law but not the law of Jesus' love.
If you Bishops are really in Defense of Marriage then try to love, learn to love from Jesus, then you can teach about LOVE, the kind of love that Jesus teaches us in the Gospels. Be like Jesus and stop acting like Pharisees who do nothing but lay burdens on people but do not lift a finger to help them.
Bishops should not be spending Church money on hate propaganda.
Money should go to help people who are homeless and living in Tent Cities all across this country. Help these people. Do something worthwhile for a change. Do something right. Do something good. Do something positive. Do something meaningful that is loving.
btw - I am a heterosexual who is married for the 2nd time and the Church does not recognize my marriage of 17 years. You unloving selfish Bishops will not even recognize my marriage and you claim you are in defense of marriage. You have proven that you are nothing but a liar. You are liars to say that you care about marriage when you can't even recognize my marriage. You are utterly pathetic and disgusting to push your crap full of lies. You are a bunch of hypocrites and Woe to you! Woe to you who do not love but demand others love.
Oh, and while I'm at it here, did Newt Gingrinch have to get an annulment from his previous two marriages in order to become a Catholic? Did he have to fill out a lot of paperwork, refrain for over a year or two or three from having sex with his wife and explain why he left his two wives for another woman? Were his ex-wives questioned? Were his family members questioned? Was there a Tribunal for him? No, there wasn't because the Church says his prior two marriages were not valid marriages. I doubt he would have become a Catholic if such restraints were put on him. How sick the rules are in the Church for those Catholics who were baptized when they were an infant and raised in Catholic families and went to Catholic schools and in families that contributed money to the Church for generations and generations, all their lives, but someone like Newt comes along and wooola, all the rules are different and the door is open and as long as he caters to your politics, as long as he's not gay he's allowed to stay in the club house. Woe to you Pharisees!
Woe to you Pharisees! Your laws are nothing but a huge burden on people in the Catholic Church who have been members for many generations who have fed you and clothed you and gone to wars for you for generations. Not anymore and not from my family. The door is closing in on you. The fruits of your labor are all the failures in the world. Your lack of love and lack of relationship to people in the world has made our world a very messed up place. If you had any sense you would have demanded an end to nuclear arms races. But you did nothing. You let them build and build massive stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in the 50's & 60's & 70's, 80s, 90s, 00s. We lived under the threat of nuclear war ever since I was a child and you still do not speak out about closing down the places that make weapons, guns, nuclear missiles, but you go on and on and on and on and on and on about abortion and how pro-life you say you are but aren't really. You never protested against nuclear weapons. No one went to the streets. But for gay bashing you will pay propaganda mills to spew lies. Woe to you hypocrites who say you value life but do nothing to contribute to life or to give life in any way or to protect life. If there is a nuclear explosion anyone who is pregnant and not incinerated will have a deformed child if the mother even survives. But you did nothing about stopping the spread of those weapons. And you wonder why some chose to not have children at all or didn't want to bring a lot of children into the world in the sixties and seventies and eighties, nineties. Woe to you hypocrites! You say you are in defense of life but you have done nothing in defense of life. There are great dangers that are a threat to our extinction that you do nothing about. Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees and you know who you are.
Seems like a reasonable start
Seems like a reasonable start of a definition of marriage. Bake the vitriol out and you might get something like this:
"A marriage is a relationship between two people in love to decide to share their lives together. Presumably they also share a home and property. That relationship may or may not last a long time. It may or may not involve children."
Is that it? Is that a suitable definition for both the secular institution of marriage and what, for some Christians, is a sacrament?
Pharisees deserve nothing
Pharisees deserve nothing more than the truth, but they neither hear nor see the truth.
Love is the key to any successful long-lasting loving relationship. If the word and example of Jesus Christ is in your heart and His word and example is your faith and you practice faith in Him and do what He says, you will hear His words and He knows who are His and they know His voice and they Follow Him. He leads us into green pastures. He is the good shepherd.
Failed relationships are the result of many factors and can be linked to immaturity, arrogance, narcissism, lack of spiritual growth, a consistent demonstration of a lack of love, lack of compassion and affection. Once one slips into a pattern linked to these lacks the relationship is put into jeopardy. If one is blind to their own arrogance they will not be changing that pattern and that puts the relationship in jeopardy of dying.
Relationships are similar to those things which grow in the earth. Too much water (tears and suffering) and it will get root rot. Not enough sun (the light of spiritual growth and maturity) and its height and size will be diminished. Too much sun (domineering spirit) and it will fry and wither. A relationship is a dance of chance and faith as well as trust in and with someone and God will hold them together with their mutual consent and free will to love one another.
The real issue These four
The real issue
These four points are good ones and the bishops are right to combat homosexual marriage.
However, homosexual marriage is only a symptom of the breakdown of marriage which the Catholic bishops, priests, and "intellectuals" have done so little to fight since the middle 1960s.
It's not too late for our faith leaders to reach Catholic youth and couples about the truth of human sexuality and the family as a life-long faithful unity of a man and woman to procreate and educate children, a true service to society and the future.
Couples who generously choose to have children for the children's own sake and because God wants them to are heroes.
Oh yes, as soon as good
Oh yes, as soon as good Catholic marriages started to fall apart at the same rate as others', folks decided that getting into a gay/lesbian marriage was the right thing to do!
Church ... I won't ask you to marry me and you keep your hands off of my relationship and the SECULAR benefits that come from the State, not the church!
Define marriage then.
Define marriage then. Secular, legal, religous, I don't care where you start. But define marriage please.
The real issue These four
The real issue
These four points are good ones and the bishops are right to combat homosexual marriage.
However, homosexual marriage is only a symptom of the breakdown of marriage which the Catholic bishops, priests, and "intellectuals" have done so little to fight since the middle 1960s.
It's not too late for our faith leaders to reach Catholic youth and couples about the truth of human sexuality and the family as a life-long faithful unity of a man and woman to procreate and educate children, a true service to society and the future.
Couples who generously choose to have children for the children's own sake and because God wants them to are heroes.
These four points are a bunch
These four points are a bunch of hogwash! If the Bishops told you to commit suicide you would. So far they have convinced you to cut off all thought to your brain except what they dump into your unthinking mind.
Guess what? Women who use their God-given intelligence are smart and not going to submit to a theology of body that is misogynist. They are not going to have the large families that Bishops want them to have so they can brainwash their children and live off their donations, get them to vote for their theocratic special interests and live like rich fat cats. The Bishops are nothing but leeches. When are you going to wake up Kevin and realize that marriages are not the same as civil unions. Civil unions, whether gay or heterosexual, do not cause and are not a symptom of Catholic sacramental marriages falling apart.
Maybe you should read up on the history of "marriage." It doesn't seem you know much or anything really about it. The Bishops are not telling you the truth. Because they are liars.
Having faith in God is one thing, and having faith in Bishops who lie and pretend they are holy men is another and it's about time you woke up to the truth and used your mind and God-given intellect to think things through for yourself. God doesn't care how many children you have or if you use birth control and if you believe God does it is only because you don't know God and you don't really care to know the true God. Your God seems to be your penis and your "right" to impregnate and turn your wife into nothing but a baby machine and cater to your sexual lust to dominate her and control her. That has nothing to do with God, but it does have to do with your sense of superiority over women.
You want to be a true service to society and the future Kevin? Grow up and learn to think on your own. The Bishops are too stupid and selfish for you to be wasting your time listening to their hogwash.
Thanks for that inclusive,
Thanks for that inclusive, rich and welcoming comment. But back to the bigger question, and that is "define marriage." "Marriage has changed over time." Oh, no news there. And many of the so-called previous, ancient forms of marriage, including variations on the "poly" theme, are not hard to find today.
Defining all current forms of marriage is an act of description - not prescription. Yes, there are many, many forms of marriage. But what should marriage be TODAY? Beating up on Kevin, Anonymous, doesn't answer the question. You may not like Kevin's Faith, or his reasoning or his definition of marriage. But at least he appears to have a definition which can be discussed on that idea's merits or lack thereof.
Let's hear it: what should a secular marriage be in these United States today?
A few points on what I
A few points on what I consider a very unwise move by the bishops, the renewal of a political crusade to convince the state to prohibit gay marriage:
First, they are not defending marriage. They are defending a particular abstract definition of marriage, which is something else entirely. They apparently care more about an abstract definition than they care about actual persons, including millions of gay Catholics, their parents, brothers and sisters, relatives, friends and co-workers.
Second, they are pronouncing upon what is or is not natural law, the basis (rather than Scripture or the teaching of Jesus) of the Church's opposition to gay sexuality as then Cardinal Ratzinger made clear in 1986. The bishops, however, have no particular expertise regarding natural law and one could argue that it is the height of hubris to proclaim on such for all humans. Normally, it is the various sciences that determine what is natural law. In this case, those sciences which have studied this matter at depth, psychology, psychiatry, biology, anthropology, etc. have generally reached a consensus that homosexuality is a natural variant of human sexuality. The bishops present no evidence otherwise. No Catholic need feel bound to heed such dubious episcopal pronouncements.
Third, a political crusade involves huge sums of money, money obtained from the people which could be used for better purposes. To spend the peoples' money on this without a mandate from the people seems close to an abuse of power.
Finally, a large percentage of the bishops, as everyone now knows, are gay themselves but only one, retired Archbishop Weakland, just this month, has admitted such. It is sad that these men are so afraid since, as Scripture says, love casts out fear. Authorizing a campaign to deny other gays the right to marry those they love seems, in this context, close to pathological illness. A very sad development.
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