Your Holiness, it is time for women deacons

Your report is onesided and hence inaccurate. 1.) the International Theological Commission opined that since the sacrament of orders is one single sacrament with three grades, women deacons were not possible. 2.) while the holy father updated the codex juris canonici to reflect the catechism, he also added a provision that makes the ordination of women a latea sententiae delect regradless of whether one is speaking of women deacons or priests. 3) You provide absolutely no source for the allegation that the curia knows women can be ordained but wont. NOW YOU CAN AGREE OR NOT AGREE WITH THESE THINGS BUT PLEASE BE ACCUARTE WHEN YOUR REPORT FACTS.

Phyllis -- well said. My only concern is that the "we're getting mad" argument is not the strongest one we can make. As I've been arguing for many years, I think the pastoral requirements of the people require that we ordain current deacons to the priesthood in numbers sufficient to staff all existing and projected communities, and replace them in the diaconate with qualified men and women. Since professed religious are often qualified to perform the roles of preaching, teaching, and administering the sacraments, they could be ordained to the diaconate almost immediately, even as other men and women move through the formation process. Once our communities are fully staffed with qualified priests, deacons, religious, and lay ministers, the Spirit will guide us to the next steps. I can't think of a single scriptural or canonical obstacle to this position. - robert.

Women will never be deacons since they never were! Yes there were deaconesses in the early Church but this office in the early Church was never seen as a step towards ordination. Their only real liturgical function was to assist at the baptism of women. Other than that they worked with the poor & served at table. Would Ms Zangano be happy with this function?

Granted the deacons today stop at a certain point but this point is still a step towards ordination & hence denied to females. I feel the whole question of the permanent diaconate should be reviewed. These men today are poorly educated in the Faith & their sermons reflect this poverty. And it certainly makes no sense for a deacon to be preaching while a priest sits on his fanny to the side! At the very least they should be prohibited from preaching. But if they are continued to be allowed to do so, then it should only be allowed in the absence of a priest.

You neglect to mention that both the Sisters of Chrity of Nazareth and the Sisters of St Joseph of Boston both had sex abuse claims against them and the Kentucky order paid a great deal of money to the accusers. Of course, you also neglected to mention the nuns in Ireland who were accused of the same thing.

I oftenread in NCR that women are leaving the Church "in droves." Let's see how many young women, strong in their faith, go to Madrid to greet the Holy Father.

You might be right about women deacons, but you are wrong about that being why the church is dying. Other faiths that have women clergy are dying as well. Your point would be better taken if you didn't confuse the two.

Phyllis I was with you and even supportive of most of the points in this post until you wrote:

"The Catholic Church in developed nations is dying out. I am convinced it is dying because of the way it relates to women."

What could possibly bring you to that conclusion?

There is no evidence to support that at all. If we look to the Protestant world we see that those Protestant groups that have women ministers etc. are experiencing the same decline in numbers that the Catholic Church is experiencing. But those Protestant Churches that are more traditional and keep male only clergy are far more likely to be experiencing growth. Your hypothesis doesn't hold water.

Now you can pursue the issue of female deacons from several points, but saying that women are leaving the church because of the way the church relates to women is unsupported. Now are there some women who have left because of that issue, sure, it's a big Church with lots of variables.

But far more are leaving because of wishy washy theology, poor sermons, and poor catechesis than because of female issues.

"God is love and all persons are made in the image and likeness of God. But the world will not and cannot hear that until you have a woman deacon standing beside you and proclaiming the Gospel in St. Peter’s."
- That is total silliness. For 2000 years the world learned this without a woman deacon as we know of it today.

To quote First Nicea:
"Deaconnesses who have been led astray, since they are not sharers of ordination, are to be reckoned among the Laity." Here's the thing: deaconessess then were NOT what we think of as deacons today.

Can women have positions of authority in the Church? ABSOLUTELY! Do they have to be Sacramentally ordained as a deacon for that? No.

"The Christian message is lost in the daily drama of the sex abuse crisis."
- Hardly. I think it is only 'lost' for those who are looking for an excuse to avoid it. If the Gospel didn't get 'lost' when all the first bishops fled as cowards, the first Pope denied he even KNEW Jesus and one of the twelve that saw Him raise the dead and also had from Jesus the power to cast out demons and yet BETRAYED Him to death for chump change, I think the Gospel will survive this.

"The Catholic Church in developed nations is dying out. I am convinced it is dying because of the way it relates to women."
- I think you need to take a step back a research a little more. The Anglican Church, which not only ordains women, but also makes them and open homosexuals bishops, is for all practical purposes dead NOW. Making women bishops if far beyond what you are asking for, and yet they are still dying. On the basis of your idea, it should be one of the most popular, packed-full churches in America now.

Perhaps, Ms. Zagano, you could first define what you mean by the word 'Deacon'. What is a deacon? Do you define it as the Catholic Church defines deacon, or are you working off of some other definition?

The Didascalia Apostolorum, which I think has been dated to about the third century, talks about 'deaconessess'. They have three main functions: 1) to visit and give aid to Christian women in pagan households (since if a guy deacon visited, the pagans would automatically suspect, you know, something else...), 2) to anoint female catechumens in Baptism (since at that time catechumens were baptized by immersion, and it was not right for the bishop to annint the female catechumens, concerns of modesty were very high), and 3) to provide post-baptismal catechesis for female initiates.

You don't need to be a deacon to do the first and third, and the second is no longer relevant.

Women are not in the least inferior to men in dignity, just as wine is not in the least inferior to water. It's just that wine is the wrong matter for baptizing people (though it is the correct matter for the Eucharist). In the same way, woman are the wrong matter for the sacrament whereby a man becomes an image of the Cosmic Bridegroom who is Christ. Being a deacon in our church is part of the Sacramental Holy Orders. As far as women preaching and working to convert others to the True Faith, and having positions of authority, this is done, and WAS done, all the time. You don't have to be a deacon(ess) to do that.

Women deacons, or deaconesses as they are properly termed, were not necessarily what you may imagine that they were. There is some debate over whether they were ordained or simply installed and the 19th Canon of the Council of Nicaea (yes, there were councils before Vatican II!) laid down that deaconesses were to be accounted as lay persons and received no ordination as properly understood.

Moreover, it is clear that deaconesses primarily served in charitable offices and served to assist in preparing women for baptism and assisting at their baptisms. However, Const. Apost. VIII, 27 specifically notes that "the deaconess gives no blessing, she fulfills no function of priest or deacon".

More on deaconesses can be found at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04651a.htm

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Bravo, Phyllis. I was asked in a class on "Catholicism Today" why the resistence to change is to powerful in the ranks of the high clergy. You write to the Pope about one instance of that resistence. You would help me if you wrote one whole column on the broader phenomenon of resistence.

It is high time women are accorded equality in the church. This is the only major institution which discriminates so abominably. This alone gives a terrible example of justice in society. No wonder many Catholics no longer find the Catholic church a place for practicing their religion.

It is interesting to reflect on the message we learned from Jesus praying with the women in the temple. The only incidence of temper that he showed was when the "holy men" came from the Jewish Synogogue into the the outer space where the animals and women were relegated to pray (since women could go into the Synogogue...(because they were not men -- thus not HOLY ENOUGH!)

Jesus, being among them, got angry, turning over the tables when the Jewish men began gambling. Jesus admonished them saying, that gambling was not permitted in God's house!

Interesting, isn't it -- that the jews have for over 50 years ordained women as Rabbis? All other faiths that I know of, have women priests and pastors...but we are so superior, aren't we...

thank you,phyllis, for this 'ponderable'....for me there is a
much more immediate needed 'fix' to our church....i know of a diocese
where there are 30+ married priests,another with 10, etc. who have families,
who have theology degrees,some with canon law degrees, who have served
for years,know parish life, yet who wanted a family....why can't we
let these priests( the church can not erase the mark of ordination)help
out in parishes, for example, do home mass for the elderly, do
masses on sundays, role model with a celebate priest that a
married man can also have the vocation/grace to function as a
priest? ..it appears that the bishops/rome, care more about
sexual issues, than about grace, vocation, etc.. would rather
deprive us of eucharist, the role model of married life, etc...
i know of a parish were a methodist minister was ordained a
catholic priest, has a wife and children....his parish is alive
and well...my husband and i attended his ordination, his wife
and children participated...we supported them whole heartedly....
what kind of a slap in the face is this to a priest who after
several years of service would also want to have a family????
i also would like to support women deacons, we have been doing
the behind the scenes in the church for years, where would it be
today with out women...i remember the days when we had to wear
white gloves to touch anything in the sacrasty,when we cleaned the altars and
washed the linens, even dusted the alter, etc....thanks again, dncrowley

In the words of the great Inigo Montoya, "Let me explain. No, let me sum up" -

The pope is now wearing two-foot high miters, pederast and pederast-enabling hierarchs are roaming free or rewarded, and seminarians are required to learn the Latin Mass...

We might as well call the "Return to Women Deacons" Movement: "They're Just Not That Into You."

Any woman who expects current under-educated hierarchs or scared theologians to treat the theology and history of ordained ministry with any kind of reason or respect for authentic tradition has drunk the Koolaid.

We are entering a new dark age, just when the culture needs us the most. But, Christ faced the same situation. He saw the Temple walls falling long before they actually did. One can't help but prophesy the same. This return to false tradition will fall of its own weight. In fact, it must do so before the Spirit can move freely again. Perhaps our childrens' children may be able to make a difference. In the meantime, rejoice, the Kingdom of God is ours.

My mostly reliable Bible Dictionary by McKenzie, S. J., places Phoebe,a Christian women of Cenchrae in Rm 16:1.

Dream on, Phyllis.
This pope is a lost cause.

In a wonderful article,(Women Transformed: The Ending of Mark is the Beginning of Wisdom) Marie Sabin points out that Peter's Mother-in-law, when she was "raised up" from her illness, "began to serve (diakone). The only person in the entire Gospel to be described as "diakonos" is a woman. In terms of the Markan narrative, she is the first to act like Jesus.

Phyllis - the answer is no.
His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI

No matter where and when I go to mass, the congregation seems to be just over 50% female, to say nothing of the overwhelmingly female EMHCs and other lay ministers. In the absence of statistics, your thesis that women are leaving the Church in large numbers due to a lack of leadership roles for women seems absurd on two counts.

From my experience of writing to Rome, you NEVER get a reply. I hope at least they are recycling the letters.
Ms. Zagano your letter is great, very meaningful. Thanks.

Thank you Phyllis Zagano for the article. Women are devalued in the church. When my mother died, there were 3 priests and one bishop on the altar celebrating the funeral mass, in their long robes. Where were the women? The women were in the church basement, making the sandwiches for the funeral lunch. My daughter commented on the way down the basement stairs, "Well,I can see that nothing has changed in the catholic church."

This piece hits the nail for me exactly on the head. I have watched with dismay the church's continued march away from inclusion of women until at last I have come to the conclusion that if I am not a part of the solution I am part of the problem. I can no longer call myself a Catholic. Indeed, the church's position on the role of women (or rather lack thereof) causes me to even question whether God even exists. For what kind of a being would call only males to minister to His/Her people? So, for me, it's either leave the church for another or turn away from faith entirely. I am now trying to find where I belong since I can no longer belong to the church that continues to devalue women. Thanks for listening!

Amen, sister.

Yes, yes, yes! Women have been performing these roles forever. It just isn't recognized by the Church as service, teaching(preaching)and leadership which are the duties of a deacon. However, how would the church have functioned without this faithful service. And who is in the majority anyway in this church of ours? Let's get on with restoring the diaconate for women.

As one who has been living with a call to ordination for well over 20 years, my tears flowed freely as I read this letter. Every time I feel it's time to RUN from this church, as Phyllis says in her first paragraph, I come across someone like her who keeps me stubbornly in place, renewing this wild hope ...

I've sent this letter on to my own bishop, urging him to support her request. Judging from my many personal conversations with him, he just might.