We need more -- not fewer -- deacons

A while back, Cardinal Walter Kasper said bishops have two arms: the priesthood and the diaconate. But a few U.S. bishops have interrupted their diaconal formation programs and are not training new candidates during this academic year.

Will there be others? Why now? Can we expect a cadre of one-armed bishops?

Rumors abound that the Congregation for Clergy has asked bishops to evaluate the diaconate in their dioceses -- sooner, rather than later -- and that U.S. bishops are preparing their reports.

Given that nearly half the world's deacons reside in the United States, it's understandable that Roman spyglasses would be pointed at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Why?

Do you think it might be about married clergy? The latest study by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate counted 16,921 deacons and 39,466 priests in the U.S. -- slightly fewer total clergy than in 1965. But in 1965, the 58,632 ordained men were priests, only the smallest fraction of them married. Now, factoring in the deacons, nearly one-third of U.S. clerics are married.

Is this a problem?

Shouldn't be. Deacons are ordained to serve the Word, the liturgy and charity. Nobody really cares whether they are married or not, though married men lend an added dimension to the deacon's special (and traditional) role serving as a bridge between the bishop and the rest of the church.

The deacons are – theoretically, at least -- direct representatives of the bishop in the church's ministry of charity. Some have paying parochial or diocesan jobs; some work at Catholic social service agencies or schools. Most have a modest but firm footing in both the secular world and the church.

And deacons living the full charism of the diaconate are among those closest to the suffering church. That defined charism includes carrying the Gospel to the world, both symbolically in the liturgy and in fact in daily ministry. One would think the ministers closest to the church's charity would be the ones to connect it to the words of Scripture.

Well, maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the bishop.

Last June, Bishop Alexander K. Sample of Marquette, Mich., issued a long commentary on the diaconate that includes a letter-of-the law approach to deacons at Mass. It seems he does not want deacons to be regular homilists.

OK. Guess he has a full complement of priests capable of preaching clearly and understandably. Not every diocese is so lucky.

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Don't get me wrong -- I am delighted that young priests from India and Africa and elsewhere have the opportunity to serve for a few years in the United States.

But give us a break. Too many of these men are incomprehensible.

Then there is the culture barrier. I once heard a non-American priest give a rambling lecture-homily about the "place" of women in society that was so bad the parishioners who stayed tried to clap him quiet.

Bottom line: If it's between a U.S. deacon and a foreign priest who can't speak clearly and knows nothing about local culture or customs, I'd rather listen to the deacon, thank you.

Fact of the matter is, we need more deacons. But along with Bishops Robert J. McManus (Worcester, Mass.) and William F. Murphy (Rockville Centre, N.Y.), and perhaps one or two others, Marquette's Sample has postponed the formation and training of a new class of deacons.

Whatever happened to the new evangelization? Don't we need new evangelists?

Well, on the one hand, it makes perfect sense for a bishop here or there to regroup and take stock. The rejuvenated diaconate is relatively new, and maybe needs a tune-up in some places.

On the other hand, the long arm of the Congregation for the Clergy reaching across the ocean to page through diocesan files raises other questions.

Are they afraid of married clergy overtaking the celibates? Are they afraid the church wants to return to its tradition of women deacons? Or do they just want to cancel Vatican II completely?

I think if Rome really wants to understand the diaconate -- for men and for women -- the history books tell the story of then and now. Modern deacons are the same as those in the early church: servant-leaders who carry forth the bishop's charity with particular attention to the poor and marginalized. They properly proclaim the Gospel, and sometimes they are the clerics best qualified to preach.

The whole church can hope the redaction of the diaconate in a few dioceses is just a temporary local course correction, not the beginnings of a sepsis attacking the church's ministry of charity. The diaconate is not only one of the bishop's arms; according to the third-century Didascalia apostolorum the deacon is "the ears, mouth, heart and soul of the bishop" as well.

That's a lot for a bishop to lose.

[Phyllis Zagano is senior research associate-in-residence at Hofstra University and author of several books in Catholic studies. Her most recent books are Women & Catholicism, published by Palgrave-Macmillan in June, and Women Deacons: Past, Present, Future (with Gary Macy and William T. Ditewig) newly released by Paulist Press.]

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Who in their right mind would

Who in their right mind would want to be the ears, mouth, heart and soul of some of the U.S. bishops???

More seriously, the role of the deacon needs to expand further in sacramental ministries, especially the sacraments of anointing (historically a lay-administered ritual) and reconciliation (at least as an extraordinary minister), not contract. The difficulty of the local priest having to administer all these sacraments all the time is that sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day for the priest to do it all, especially in rural or understaffed dioceses.

ONE ARMED BISHOPS ?

ONE ARMED BISHOPS ? ........... Thank you, New Yorker and fellow New Yorker, Phyllis Zagano, for highlighting another under-reported scandal in our Church, the increasing marginalization and underutilization of married deacons. It is just another aspect of the Roman puppet master and their puppet bishops' relentless drive towards downsizing our Church into a smaller and "purer" imperial cult that satisfies the Roman clique's lust for power and wealth.

If Catholics become too accustomed to married deacons, the Roman clique fears they might then accept married priests, women deacons, women priests, women bishops, openly (as opposed the the current "closeted") gay clerics, etc. Where will it end if not nipped in the US bud? If clerics could marry, the Roman clique would soon lose their ability to manipulate through clericalism the clerics' emotional lives and Rome's ability to keep priests at the financial mercy of their bishops.

Soon US Catholics might then even want the pope to push for a Democrat as US president next November, rather than the "lower taxes on the Catholic 1 %" Republican candidates the pope is now promoting. Is it any wonder that one of those leading the deacon suppression effort is the infamous Boston's Bernard Law's former top aide, William Murphy, Phyllis' and my bishop in the Rockville Centre diocese on Long Island (NY).

Shamefully, the suppression of opportunities to expand the available pool of clerical candidates, as reported here, only increases the risk of more sexual abuse of defenseless children by priests. The fewer clerics available to bishops to satisfy parish staffing requirements means the greater pressure on bishops to retain pedophile priests longer.

For a clear analysis of how the suppression of deacons fits into the Roman clique's long time support for clericalism, please read carefully the excellent short article by the worldwide Catholic's leading clinician on abusive priests and bishops, accessible by clicking on at:

http://www.richardsipe.com/Miscl/2011-10-15-mother_church.htm

For more information on how the Roman clique's current stategy, including the suppression of deacons, as well as women theologians, is harming the Church, please note the NCR comment and the related cross-links under the comment heading, "WHILE THE CHURCH DIES. ", accessible by clicking on at:

http://ncronline.org/news/global/vatican-note-urges-world-financial-refo... .

CORRECT LINK

CORRECT LINK ................ Oops! For the correct link for information on the Roman clique's current strategy, including the suppression of women theologians, please note the NCR comment and related links under the comment heading, "WHILE THE CHURCH DIES...", accessible by clicking on at:

http://ncronline.org/news/global/vatican-note-urges-world-finance-reform...

That's just the point: some

That's just the point: some US bishops need a heart-mind-soul transplant!

We need married priests and

We need married priests and women priests.

Pithy? Yes.

Probable?? Not as long as the hierarchy continues to see itself as ---ontologically--- superior to marriage and, especially, women.

The ontological presumptions and assumptions arrogantly held by those convinced they are a cut above everyone else (especially those married) will topple just as systematically as the church itself is doing now.

Forget deacons. The real issues, that of -human- representation in the church, will never occur. And an increase in deacons solves nothing in terms of marginalizing vast majorities of those kicked to the side of the road.

Or as some once said, "Abandon all hope" upon entrance into Catholicism.

We don't need them and that's

We don't need them and that's just as well since we won't be getting them. I also find it laughable how some commenters here delude themselves into believing that the only obstacle to the accomplishment of their modernist desires are a few benighted hierarchs, as if their views were actually representative of the laity at large! They aren't. The laity at large is, for the most part, faithful to the magisterium, and so are the hierarchs. The obstacle to your reforms of the Catholic Church is that your reforms are not Catholic.

First, I would question your

First, I would question your use of the work "Few". Then I would question your statement that "the laity at large, is for the most part, faithful to the magisterium. It seems to me that there have been studies (I can't remember which ones)that indicate that most of the laity disagree with the magisterium in many areas including the death penalty, birth control, sex outside marriage divorce, a married priesthood, the build-up of nuclear weapons and war (the magisterium stated that the Iraq war did not meet the just war theory) and increasingly the pro-life, one size fits all approach to all abortions and marriage equality. I would ask are you aware of the position of the magisterium in all of these areas and are you in agreement with them in all of these areas as well.

It seems to me that be one either to the Left or to the Right, it is more likely then not that there is deep disagreements with the teachings of the Church. It is just that, generally speaking, those to the Left tend to be more honest about it.

Your opinions do not match

Your opinions do not match the realities as demonstrated by the statistics (i.e., number of former Catholics, decreases in number of active Catholics and closing of once vibrant parishes and schools, etc., etc.).

WAKE UP! We have lay folks

WAKE UP! We have lay folks that can do wonderful reflections at liturgy and can say wonderful prayers. DO WE NEED DEACONS or are they just taking away from lay people? I can preach, leader people in prayer, have a Word and Communion service. We are priestly people.

Our local deacons are

Our local deacons are retiring and dying...few taking their place.

If I were a bishop I'd be scared, too...few priests, fewer deacons...only women left to minister to the needs of the faithful.

In addition, those few deacons (far majority married) are showing that one can function and be married...there goes another argument. Allowing married Anglican priests to become married Catholic priests also shows a married person can function quite well (and sometimes better, as they're more mature!) as a parish priest.

The tipping point is rapidly approaching...

There are more deacons

There are more deacons trained in our diocese than priests. Two to four priest each year. Thirty deacons every three years. And at a lower expense.
And they must support themselves. A bargain, both in finance and reality.

The permanent diaconate

The permanent diaconate program is just one more example of Vatican II disasters. The program should be eliminated completely.

You believe the permanate

You believe the permanate diaconate is a disaster. What makes you say this? How do you define disaster in this case?

Amen to that; get rid of

Amen to that; get rid of that pesky permanent diaconate.
We were completely led astray by the example of the early church.
Saints Stephen and Nicanor and Vincent and Timon and Apollonius
and all of those guys were all disasters--most of them
even got themselves killed; what a fiasco!

What a blessing that we have the sagacious Uncas to steer us away
from the examples of the heroic age of the early Church.

I find it more than amusing

I find it more than amusing when some conservative, reactionary Catholics discredit at evern turn the importance of the teachings of Vatican II while holding that every other such Church council is never to be questioned or challenged.

Wow... thank you Phyllis for

Wow... thank you Phyllis for the article. But - why so much anger in the comments? I guess there is a lot of hurt in the Church.

We need active laity. Yes, absolutely. We also need Deacons, Priests and Bishops. That's our Church. That's the Church we've had for 2000 years, and like it or not, that's the Church we'll have forever, because that is the Church that Jesus Christ founded.

What needs to change, maybe, is the clericalism that sometimes is a little prevalent in our churches. But, I think that is changing. Nothing changes overnight and certainly not in our Church. But that's a good thing.

Instead of complaining and being angry, why not pray for vocations and pray for our deacons, priests and bishops that they keep their eyes on Christ so as not to sink in the water - and let's pray for all lay people, that each one of us can respond with joy to our baptismal call.

May Christ increase our Faith and fill our hearts with love for Him.

Pedro, I've seen no

Pedro, I've seen no indication that clericalism has been anything but a straw man for several decades now--let alone that it's "prevalent." The bigger problem in the Church today is a distended notion of the laity's role rather than a distorted notion of the clerical role. Still, I agree that we must "pray for vocations and pray for our deacons, priests and bishops that they keep their eyes on Christ so as not to sink in the water - and let's pray for all lay people, that each one of us can respond with joy to our baptismal call" in ways appropriate to the lay vocations.

The first, and best permanent

The first, and best permanent deacon I ever knew was the late Paul Frumkin.

He did have a "foot hold." By day, he was a shoe-store manager.

If you read his obit, you'll see why Bishops are uncomfortable. Men like Paul are dangerous. They gently and quietly, in their St. Francis-like manner, upset the clerical apple-carts.

They'd make today's crop of bishops distincly uncomfortable.

The first deacons to be

The first deacons to be ordained in this country were scandalously unprepared, and made it difficult for deacons to be taken seriously for many years to come. That resulted from some very poor choices by pastors, who presented their cronies for ordination, or considered the diaconate a reward for time served in the parish. As late as the early nineties, there were some dioceses where the majority of deacons were poorly prepared and embarrassing to watch. Fortunately, that was not the case everywhere, and it began to turn around as pastoral formation programs evolved. Still, the fact that the majority of deacons have been ordained for the U.S. church is a problem that the Vatican needs to understand and then address, if the diaconate is ever going to achieve its full potential.

In our parish,the deacon was

In our parish,the deacon was a better preacher than the priests AND the priests were excellent. He was well prepared theologically but also he had been a leader all his adult life!

Unprepared? Unprepared for

Unprepared? Unprepared for what? Deacons lead lives the same as the congregation, they spoke of the things that were important to the congregation. Not enough Philiosophy? Four years required! Did you ever ask a deacon (or a priest either!) about the difference in substance between the Father and the Son? The priests spend years studying things that are not important in our lives, but miss out on the things that are important. They are "exceptional persons" with no experience in the daily lives of US! Until a priest can distinguish between reality and philosophy, I'll talk with a deacon any day.

Pray for vocations?

Pray for vocations? Certainly!
However, I believe that there is no lack of vocations but an unwillingness to receive them.

"However, I believe that

"However, I believe that there is no lack of vocations but an unwillingness to receive them."

Agreed. Both by the "called" and by the "filter" which excludes at least half of those called - women.

Mechthild is right, and

Mechthild is right, and Dennis is half-right that may of those who are called are not answering. But Denis is assuredly wrong that there is some kind of "filter" which excludes women called to the priesthood, for no women are called to the priesthood. This argument was settled by Ordinatio Sacerdotalis; no good Catholic can still maintain to the contrary. I urge you to accept your call to reconcile with the Church.

Anonymous on Nov. 10,

Anonymous on Nov. 10, 2011.

You stated:

"Mechthild is right, and Dennis is half-right that may of those who are called are not answering. But Denis is assuredly wrong that there is some kind of "filter" which excludes women called to the priesthood, for no women are called to the priesthood. This argument was settled by Ordinatio Sacerdotalis; no good Catholic can still maintain to the contrary. I urge you to accept your call to reconcile with the Church."
------------------------------------------
Your commentary about women being "excluded" from being called to the priesthood and that this is was a settled question by "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis"---is pure hooey!

The early Christian Church did not have a ministerial priesthood. Jesus ordained NOBODY to be priest. Jesus ordained NOBODY to be bishop. Jesus did not have a coronation ceremony for Peter. He never said "You are Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church...." Jesus, Peter and the rest of the Christians in Palestine----spoke Aramaic (Hebrew which was regarded as the Sacred Language was only used in worship on Saturdays). There was NO WORD for Church in Aramaic (or Hebrew). 'Ekklesia' was a word from the Greek(meaning Church)----and it only began to be used when Greek Gentiles were converted (many from the ministry of Paul).

Later when Jerome (374-419) began translating the Bible from Greek (the language of the upper-crust educated) to the Latin Vulgate (the language of the ordinary people of the Roman Empire), he placed this part in. Jerome had aspirations to become pope. He told anyone who would listen to him that Pope Siricius was a terrible choice as a pope (Jerome was correct, too----Siricius murdered his predecessor and was known to be a slave to every vice that there was).

We have the evidence that there were women in the early Christian communities (churches) who performed tasks that later became part of the responsibilities of ministerial priest.
1) Women performed the purification rites (later known as funeral rites) for
the dead. It was only in the sixth century that ministerial priests
began to do this.
2) St. John (the Evangelist) addresses his second Epistle to an ELECT LADY, a
woman who was in the position of presider of a Ekklesia. As an ordained
presider, she was also ordained to consecrate the Eucharist. St. John
also has greetings from the children of another woman, who is an elect
head of another ekklesia.
3) We have the letters to Trajan from Pliny the Younger (61-113) while he was
governor of Bithynia. He said that it was necessary to torture two young
women called 'ministrae' by the Christians in order to obtain information
from them. They were taken prisoner because they were the ones
responsible for meetings and being the leaders in service to others.
4) Catecombs and churches in Rome display beautiful mosaics and frescoes
showing that women served priestly roles in the early churches.
5) In her book "Women Officeholders in Early Christianity" (Liturgical Press
2007), German epigraphical scholar Ute Eisen demonstrates there is wide-
spread evidence of titles for women presiders (presbytera, presbyterissa)
who served both in the Eastern and Western churches from the second to the
ninth century.
6) High ranking Catholic officials cannot explain why at the burial sites
many women (without husbands) have the 'presbytera' inscription. And
why where wife and husband were buried together---the woman would have the
'presbytera' title (while her husband had nothing). Or where husband and
wife were buried---the woman would have the title 'presbytera' and her
husband would have the title 'presbyter' (Both functioned as priests).
7) The Church of Bythinia, founded by Paul and visited by Peter, had
fraternities of deaconesses within the living memory of the Twelve
Apostles. During the second and third centuries---it was exceptional for
a church NOT to have deaconesses.

By the sixth century, church offices for women were declining---because the rise of cultic sacramentalism demanded cultic purity became a major factor.

We owe the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Tertullian, Augustine and other church fathers, as well as the attempt to separate a pure Mary from other women---as leading to the fact that women were viewed as necessary only to be fetus incubators.

The condemnation of Eve became a fundamental cause of contempt for women. Misogyny was pervasive in Greek culture and eventually oppressed women's role in Christianity. Hesoid's story of 'Pandora's Box' 800 years before Christ, reflected the dominant cultural attitude of the Geeks to women: "Contempt was her due for exciting the lust that leads us into the cycle of birth and death, from which we can never break free". The church fathers heaped a similar opprobrium upon Eve (and all other women---except Mary).

LittleBear, once again, you

LittleBear, once again, you have declared your unbelief that the Sacrament of Holy Orders was instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. Once again, your friend "The Eminem Fan" (Dave) is here to try to help set things straight.

Our Lord instituted the Holy Mass on the evening prior to His passion and death. The consecration of bread and wine into His Body and Blood (which He spoke of prior to that night in a discourse which is recorded in John Chapter 6), and the New Testament priesthood, is clearly tied to: 1) the priesthood of Melchizedek who offered bread and wine in the Old Testament, 2) the priesthood of the Old Testament (as we read in the letter to the Hebrews), 3) the Passover, 4) the remission of sins; 5) the death of Christ which occurred the next day, Good Friday.

Jesus did not say to all of His many disciples and followers of the time (e.g. the 72 disciples the Lord had appointed, the faithful women, His Mother, etc) to repeat these actions of the first Mass ("As often as ye do these things") as a commemoration of Him. Rather, He directed this only to the eleven holy Apostles, who thus were the first priests, the first bishops. They were set apart from the rest of the disciples.

http://www.syonabbey.org/Publications/massapostles.html

The Council of Trent taught infallibly:

"If any one saith, that by those words, Do this for the commemoration of me (Luke xxii. 19), Christ did not institute the apostles priests; or, did not ordain that they, and other priests should offer His own body and blood; let him be anathema."

Dave Phillips on Nov. 17,

Dave Phillips on Nov. 17, 2011.

You stated:

"LittleBear, once again, you have declared your unbelief that the Sacrament of Holy Orders was instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. Once again, your friend "The Eminem Fan" (Dave) is here to try to help set things straight.

Our Lord instituted the Holy Mass on the evening prior to His passion and death. The consecration of bread and wine into His Body and Blood (which He spoke of prior to that night in a discourse which is recorded in John Chapter 6), and the New Testament priesthood, is clearly tied to: 1) the priesthood of Melchizedek who offered bread and wine in the Old Testament, 2) the priesthood of the Old Testament (as we read in the letter to the Hebrews), 3) the Passover, 4) the remission of sins; 5) the death of Christ which occurred the next day, Good Friday.

Jesus did not say to all of His many disciples and followers of the time (e.g. the 72 disciples the Lord had appointed, the faithful women, His Mother, etc) to repeat these actions of the first Mass ("As often as ye do these things") as a commemoration of Him. Rather, He directed this only to the eleven holy Apostles, who thus were the first priests, the first bishops. They were set apart from the rest of the disciples.

http://www.syonabbey.org/Publications/massapostles.html

The Council of Trent taught infallibly:

"If any one saith, that by those words, Do this for the commemoration of me (Luke xxii. 19), Christ did not institute the apostles priests; or, did not ordain that they, and other priests should offer His own body and blood; let him be anathema.""
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Jesus established the New Covenant with his followers at the Last Supper. This was a Passover Meal (and the Church attests to that). At the first Passover Meal in Egypt---God established a Covenant with the people of Israel. The people of Israel were to celebrate the Passover yearly (and they have done so), commemorating this Covenant. And at Passover meals, men, women and children were/are present----no such thing as MEN only.

So, Jesus did the same thing---with his followers---men and woman (remember in the Gospel of Matthew---Jesus wanted a LARGE room that was well furnished---and he got it). A new Covenant was established with Jesus' followers as well. But he did not anoint the Apostles as priests. The early Christian Church DID NOT HAVE a CLERICAL CLERGY. Study the Gospels carefully---the women (Mary, the mother of Jesus, Magdalene, the mother of James and John and others) knew exactly when and where the meeting room was and how to get in.
And just from a practical point of view---no Apostle was cooking the Last Supper either. It was served by the women who sat for parts of the meal(this was the PASSOVER), got up and sifted in and out---but women (and the Apostles' children---remember Apostles were married) were also present. The very fact that Chloe---was a leader of a Christian community in Corinth---is evidence of that.

Read the Acts of the Apostles---the Apostles and the followers of Jesus went to the Temple (in Jerusalem) to worship on Saturdays---like good Jews. Then, on Sundays the Christians went to their homes to 'share The Meal'. There is absolutely, absolutely no mention that the Apostles led the people in this worship.

The Apostles were proclaiming the Gospel,healing and baptizing people. They certainly didn't lead in worship as Paul began converting the Gentiles. We have CLEAR evidence that men and women were selected as presiders and leaders of groups of Christians. And we have that information in the Acts of the Apostles, and in the Epistles of St. Paul.

You mentioned Paul's letter to the Hebrews. According to Paul---only Jesus has the right to be called "Priest" and none other. No where in any of the writings of the Acts of the Apostles, or in any of the Epistles---are the Apostles entitled "Priests".

The Council of Trent---was more about building and maintaining the 'Walls' around the Church---rather than dealing with the realities of what really happened at the Last Supper, or Scripture study. In fact, it was not until the papacy of Pius XII---that Catholic biblical scholars were permitted to used the same splendid material that the Protestants had been using for about 70 years. The Council of Trent only repeated what has been repeated the centuries before---it didn't matter whether the understanding of what really happened at the Last Supper was based on reality or not.

Today, we have much more research going on in both biblical studies and in archeology than ever before. Having been to the digging sites both in Israel (and in Jordan) and in Rome---and having had interviews with biblical researchers in Israel----there is so very much that is being discovered yearly. The official Church will not be able to maintain its stance very much longer---about women and their places of leadership in the early Church.

We have had three very frightened popes leading us since John XXIII---Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict----would like to take Catholics back to the 1950's. But the rest of the world has long since moved past those years. And as some of the folks on this site like to state, "the genie will not get back into the bottle."

LittleBear, what you are

LittleBear, what you are basically saying is this: the Sacrament of Holy Orders (and the priesthood it confers) was *not* instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ... but that it was invented later by men who happened to be Church leaders.

If we can't even be sure that the seven Sacraments were instituted by Jesus -- which is what you are claiming -- doesn't that tend to dismiss as myths even the most basic of the Catholic Church's claims (and the most basic truths of what we are taught as Catholics?)

Why remain a Catholic if this is the case?

If a sacred council of the pope and bishops together, teaching about matters of faith in a definitive and dogmatic way (as happened at Trent), is so prone to outright error-- that can be about-faced later-- then what is the purpose (if any) of the pope and bishops and/or of the Magisterium?

And, worse, if everything --or most of -- what is in, for instance, even something basic like the Baltimore Catechism, are a collection of mistakes, lies, and fables... then shouldn't we then just renounce the Catholic Church altogether?

LittleBear, you (and others) seem to always hold up the "early Christian Church" as the ideal. But in the "early Christian Church," women were told to cover their heads, and women were told to keep silence in the churches. It's right there in the Bible, from the pen of St. Paul.

In the "early Christian Church," homosexual acts and desires were regarded as abominations and perversion. Certain sins committed by "early Christians" were punished by shunning. We read these things, again, in the Bible.
(I've read also that other harsh penances were imposed for certain sins in years that followed.)

LittleBear, aren't you and others quite selective as to which parts of the "early Christian Church" you want to return to ?

Dave Phillips on Nov. 18,

Dave Phillips on Nov. 18, 2011.

You stated:

"LittleBear, what you are basically saying is this: the Sacrament of Holy Orders (and the priesthood it confers) was *not* instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ... but that it was invented later by men who happened to be Church leaders.

If we can't even be sure that the seven Sacraments were instituted by Jesus -- which is what you are claiming -- doesn't that tend to dismiss as myths even the most basic of the Catholic Church's claims (and the most basic truths of what we are taught as Catholics?)

Why remain a Catholic if this is the case?

If a sacred council of the pope and bishops together, teaching about matters of faith in a definitive and dogmatic way (as happened at Trent), is so prone to outright error-- that can be about-faced later-- then what is the purpose (if any) of the pope and bishops and/or of the Magisterium?

And, worse, if everything --or most of -- what is in, for instance, even something basic like the Baltimore Catechism, are a collection of mistakes, lies, and fables... then shouldn't we then just renounce the Catholic Church altogether?

LittleBear, you (and others) seem to always hold up the "early Christian Church" as the ideal. But in the "early Christian Church," women were told to cover their heads, and women were told to keep silence in the churches. It's right there in the Bible, from the pen of St. Paul.

In the "early Christian Church," homosexual acts and desires were regarded as abominations and perversion. Certain sins committed by "early Christians" were punished by shunning. We read these things, again, in the Bible.
(I've read also that other harsh penances were imposed for certain sins in years that followed.)

LittleBear, aren't you and others quite selective as to which parts of the "early Christian Church" you want to return to ?"

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The Church is composed of human beings who learn through experiences---mistakes and successes. Take a look at our country. Is it exactly the same as it was when the Declaration of Independence in 1775? It is not.

Our Church made mistakes, learned, and made more mistakes. It certainly did have more sacraments then it has today. For one thing---once religious orders were established (Benedict and his twin sister Scholastica were the first in the West), the celebration of final vows (for both men and women) was celebrated like the ordination of the diocesan clergy----it was looked upon as a 'sacrament'. All the minor steps to the ordination of priests were celebrated as 'sacraments'. The Church finally settled upon 7 sacraments.

How about the Gospels? Do you believe that Matthew (a tax collector who wasn't permitted to even enter a synagogue or the temple) was that knowledgable about the Jewish practices that he writes about? NO---but his scribes (converted scribes, teachers of the law) certainly were. They wrote according to their understanding of what happened when Jesus carried on his ministry. Isn't that what each Gospel is---slanted to a particular group for which it was written? Scripture scholars are still talking about the "Q" Source from which all the Gospel writers checked for their basic information.

And Paul, do you believe that the man who wrote the Letter to the Romans (written before he or any other apostle went to Rome)praising the women and men who were teachers (apostles), deacons (Phoebe) and co-workers with him---do you really believe Paul actually WROTE that women should be silent in church and have their heads covered. Hey---even Paul knew that others were writing/teaching in his name---and he called them 'false brothers' and he told people that the letter that he was sending was 'signed by his hand'.

It is laughable that you seem to think that everything taught by the popes falls from God's lips to their ears. Or that everything taught by popes in one time period, continues to be taught or practiced in another time period.

It does not happen that way. For example: After the French Revolution, Rome was horrified by the revolutionary ideas spreading throughout the world. It placed all such ideas under the heading of "liberalism," and condemned liberalism as anti-Christian (something that you conservatives do today). To the popes of the day, revolutionary ideas were nothing less than Protestant reform doctrines dressed up in different garb.

Rome most detested the concepts of popular democracy and separation of Church and State. Rome wanted society to be run the old way, with aristocrats protecting the Church's interests and the lower class humbly submitting to the authority of prince and prelate. Europe became divided between reactionaries who opposed the spread of democracy, and liberals who favored it. The vast majority of Catholics, encouraged by Rome, were reactionaries.

As just one example of Rome's hostility to the new democratic ideas, consider the encyclical "Mirari Vos," written by Pope Gregory XVI in 1832. In it, the pope defined liberalism as "this false and absure maxim, or better this madness, that everyone should have and practice freedom of conscience."
["Acts of Gregory XVI" pp-169-174, in Hubert Jedin, ed., 'History of the Catholic Church" (New York: Crossroad, 1982), vol VII, p. 287]

As for freedom of the press, the pope called it, "this losthsome freedom which one cannot despise too strongly."

That was then---and what do we have now? Wonder of Wonders! The Vatican has had for decades a newspaper, a radio station, and now a website. When people (and even the Church) come around to their senses---they see that 'liberalism' is best able to permit the promptings of the Holy Spirit---and keeps creativity and change from being stiffled. After all----God changes all things---but God, source of all change---doesn't change.

Finally----Jesus is the reason anyone becomes a Christian/Catholic. It is not because of dogmas, doctrines. It is because one has grown to love the person of Jesus---enough to wish to imitate him---to reach out to others as he did---enough to spend time growing spiritually more like him.

Dogmas and doctrines came later when people were trying to 'intellectualize' the action of Love between God and humans.

The Church is indeed composed

The Church is indeed composed of human beings - human beings who sin.

But the Church is also protected from error by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible calls the Church "the pillar and ground of truth."

What kind of pillar of truth are we talking about, if basically everything (including Councils teaching infallibly on matters of faith) is subject to change? Sounds more like a slinky than a pillar.

What kind of ground of truth are we talking about if all of the teachings of the popes and councils are subject to change ... quicksand ?

You seem to believe that God Himself is change and evolution.

Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of action -- when viewed as absolute rights of the human person -- are indeed madness.

One could argue for a system of democratic elections over a system of monarchy. But one cannot argue that power comes from, or originates with, the people.

Liberalism tries to separate church from state, public life from religious life, science from religion, and personal behavior from Truth and Divine Law... as if "real life" is not subject to God, to Christ, and His reign. This is the madness of Liberalism.

Dave Phillips on Nov. 23,

Dave Phillips on Nov. 23, 2011.

You stated:

"The Church is indeed composed of human beings - human beings who sin.

But the Church is also protected from error by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible calls the Church "the pillar and ground of truth."

What kind of pillar of truth are we talking about, if basically everything (including Councils teaching infallibly on matters of faith) is subject to change? Sounds more like a slinky than a pillar.

What kind of ground of truth are we talking about if all of the teachings of the popes and councils are subject to change ... quicksand ?

You seem to believe that God Himself is change and evolution.

Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of action -- when viewed as absolute rights of the human person -- are indeed madness.

One could argue for a system of democratic elections over a system of monarchy. But one cannot argue that power comes from, or originates with, the people.

Liberalism tries to separate church from state, public life from religious life, science from religion, and personal behavior from Truth and Divine Law... as if "real life" is not subject to God, to Christ, and His reign. This is the madness of Liberalism."
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Where does the Bible call the Church "the pillar and ground of truth" when the New Testament was written before the understanding of Church had evolved?

It took centuries and centuries for our understanding of the nature of Jesus Christ to evolve. The Nicene Creed which we recite each Sunday evolved over quite a long period.

Council of Nicea (325) Jesus is of the same substance as the Father
Council of Constantinople (381) the nature of the Holy Spirit was defined as we now have it in the Creed.

It took until 431 AD for the leaders of the Church to understand that Jesus had two natures---human and divine and that they were joined at the Conception of Jesus. Mary was declared was both mother of Jesus as God and as man---which was developed at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

The Church is indeed composed of people who sin----that includes popes, cardinals, arch/bishops, priests, deacons, religious, and the laity. It is also comprised of many saints from each of these ranks.

Your commented about freedom of religion, speech. These are GOD-GIVEN rights---no state (nor religion) may curtail them. They are freely given gifts to us by God.

Did the Church always understand this? Absolutely not. For example---let's look at the teaching of the Council of Trent (1545-63) under Pope Paul III. It established manuals to be published and given to priests. These manuals were used right up until Vatican Council II.

Some of the areas covered in these manuals were:
1) Catholics should not associate with Protestants---in America, that was impossible.
2) Catholics were forbidden to marry Protestants.
3) An index of forbidden books was established (and the Inquisition which had been in operation since just before the 12th century) was given continued approval.
4) It was decreed that all Sacraments had come directly from the command of Christ and the apostles (even though concept of the 7 sacraments did not all evolve for a number of centuries).
5) And the Easter Duty was established. One must receive Communion at least once a year (during this time) and since one could not receive Communion in mortal sin----confession lines were very long during the last days of Lent. So people could receive Communion on Easter or very shortly afterward.

The Church at this time period was setting itself up as the Bulwark of Faith. And it began to state that the "Church always taught the purest truth." But the Church was still evolving.....

In 1865, Pope Pius IX had issued his "Syllabus of Errors" in which he took aim at every area and field of 19th Century development....social thought, science, theology, and politics---and condemned them. At the end of the Vatican Council I---Pius IX wanted to be declared "Infallible" (when dealing with issues of doctrine). This was seen as the further rise of clericalism, triumphalism, and legalism in the Church. And Mother Nature punctuated her displeasure on the whole matter with a horrific thunderstorm (summer of 1870). As the final votes came in, a tremendous flash of lightening and a clap of thunder occured into the aula, and a glass window nearly directly above the pontifical throne broke, and its shards fell to the floor.

Your comments also reflect that you are not aware of the Catholic Church's Social Encyclicals----which spell out how THE PRACTICAL ASPECTS OF CHURCH TEACHING ARE TO OCCUR. After the first few encyclicals---"Rerum Novarum" (1891), and "Quadragesimo Anno" (1931), a dramatict change occured---in Roman Catholicism in general and in papal teachings in particular.{Ah, yes---the
DREADED element of CHANGE----the world changes, Dave, and the Church must change in order to speak to it}.

Papal teaching not only accepted human rights, but the popes became strong champions of human rights throughout the world. Insistence on human rights has become a cornerstone in Catholic social teaching. (Brian Tierney, "The Idea of Natural Rights: Studies on Natural Rights, Natural Law, and Church Law," Atlanta: Scholars, 1997, pp. 1-203; Charles J. Reid, Jr. "The Canonistic Contribution to the Western Rights Tradition: An Historical Inquiry," Boston College Law Review #33, 1991, pp 37-92)

Liberalism developed these rights and ideas more after WW II, and the socal encyclicals (Pacem in Terris---John XXIII, 1963) and the documents of Vatican Council especially "Guidium et Spes" 1965 and other documents by Paul VI such as "Populorum Progressio," 1967 and "Octogesima Adveniens," 1971. In addition, we have the Synod of Bishops meeting in 1971 and coming out with "Justicia in Mundo" (Justice in the World). Also please see, John Paul II's encyclicals "Laborem Exercens," 1981 and "Solicitudo Rei Socialis," 1987.

The Church is still evolving---and so are the teachings of the Church. Remember the Church is to be in dialogue with the people of its time and age.

The Church does not "evolve".

The Church does not "evolve".

Yes, there is growth and development for the Church.

For instance, the term "transubstantiation" did not come from the mouth of the Savior. But the concept, the reality, that the term expresses was indeed given to us by Jesus Himself.

The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture, but the reality that "Trinity" expresses is in Scripture.

These terms would be an example of development... later clarifications of realities already revealed by God.

There is such a thing as authentic development for the Church, for instance, in the areas of Liturgy, expression and definition of dogmas (although dogmas themselves do *not* evolve or change), and yes, social teaching.

Sometimes, such developments and/or clarifications occur in response to heresies, challenges, or questions of the day.

But once a question is settled definitively by the Church's Magisterium, the question is closed. You can't go back and try to reopen questions of Faith already infallibly and definitively settled by the Council of Trent or by Vatican Council I. Future Councils might answer different questions definitively, but the idea of evolving and changing from what was settled for good - that's out of the question.

Now... what if in the world -- let's say, in philosophy, or -- certain ERRONEOUS or even EVIL ideas gain popularity?

You seem to assume that anything the majority of people in the world agree with must be good, and that the Church must somehow bend to "develop" along with the world. The underlying error is thinking that the world, as it is, will always be "good", or is fundamentally good.... or that everything calling itself "development" or "progress" is true development or progress that must be embraced. That is not the case.

The popes who wrote Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno would have never embraced freedom of speech, press, or religion as God-given rights.

LittleBear, in your comment above, you said:

"You commented about freedom of religion, speech. These are GOD-GIVEN rights---no state (nor religion) may curtail them. They are freely given gifts to us by God."

This is wrong. God gave us FREE WILL. But to use our free will to choose sin, or a false religion, or to speak lies, or to reject God, is an ABUSE of that gift of free will. God might not usually STOP us from abusing our free will, but that does not give us the RIGHT to do so.

God never said: "You have the right from me to say whatever you choose. You have the right to blaspheme my Holy Name, or the Name of my Son, if you wish."

Think of it this way: Wouldn't it be insane to suggest that I, as a human person created by God, have the RIGHT to murder another person? Wouldn't it be crazy to say that no State (or religion, or person) should stop me from committing murder? God gave me the free will to intend to murder. But this does not give me the RIGHT to murder.

In the same way, no one has the RIGHT to speak lies, or errors. No one has the RIGHT to choose a false religion. No one has the RIGHT to worship Ba'al or the golden calf. No one has the RIGHT to blaspheme the Holy Name of Jesus.

If God gave us the CATHOLIC religion, then this is the ONLY religion that really has RIGHTS. Objectively, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Voodoo and pagan religions, etc are erroneous. Now, no doubt that some people could be in these false religions in good faith, and could one day convert to the true Religion.

But no false religion really has the objective right to exist.

A person does *not* have an objective, God-given RIGHT to say: "I don't like the religion God established... I choose another."

We only have the RIGHT to choose good, to obey God. We don't have the RIGHT to choose the wrong path... what we have is the *ability* to abuse our free will.

Just as my hand was not created by God with the intention for me to deliberately cut my fingers off.... so too my free will was not created by God for me to (ab)use it to disobey God or commit evil acts.

Just as no one has the objective "right" to murder, rape, steal, slander -- and just as the State has every right to try to stop such actions -- so too no one really has the objective "right" to say or publish whatever one pleases. I'm all in favor of tolerance, and even assuming that many people in error are acting in good conscience, but this is a matter of principle. You see, by publishing heresies, one is potentially causing harm to souls and minds.

If pornography is promoted to children, it has the potential to harm. So too, harm can also be caused when children (or adults) are taught lies, such as that Jesus is not God, or that the Virgin Mary was really a harlot, or that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

It may be the best policy sometimes for the Catholic State to tolerate some errors and the public worship of false religions... but this is not the same as saying these errors are good.

Let's say you have a Catholic country, where the State embraces Catholicism as the official religion, and the vast majority of inhabitants are Catholic. The State would have no right to try to force anyone to convert. But, the State would have the right to, let's say, stop someone from speaking on radio or TV against the Catholic Church. Freedom of religion is not a God-given right. The State would have every right to stop someone from publishing a newspaper article that calls the Holy Catholic Church the "whore of Babylon."

Freedom of speech is not a God-given right. Neither is freedom of the press. The State would have every right to censor blasphemy of God's name, of Jesus' name, in television programs and in movies.

Yes, we have free will. But we don't have the "right" to try to lead other souls astray, into error or sin.

Vatican Council II's teaching on Religious Liberty does strongly appear to contradict the Church's Magisterium. If so, Vatican II is probably heretical, a null and void pseudo-synod which should be scrapped.

In the Boston Archdiocese,

In the Boston Archdiocese, Cardinal O'Malley has been very supportive of the permanent diaconate. Previously diaconate formation classes were created every two years, now it is every year. The Archdiocese is also looking to deacons to help not just in the parishes, but also in various archdiocesan wide ministries. So there are bishops who value the permanent diaconate very much.

One more comment, it really disturbed me about how you referred to foreign priests who are serving the American Church. I do not believe that they should be used as a stop gap to address the American priest shortage. However your comment on listening to one them preaching sounds to my ears very prejudicial.

Actually, Jonathan, O'Malley

Actually, Jonathan, O'Malley doesn't have a choice but to like the diaconate: Some time in the next decade, the number of deacons will surpass the number of priests in the archdiocese of Boston.

There are 400 diocesan priests in the archdiocese. Over the next decade at least 180 of them will retrie/pass away, bringing the number to 220. There are currently 250 deacons, and the archdiocese routinely ordains more deacons than priests.

For O'Malley to suppress the diaconate would be suicidal. The diaconate is the only area of the Boston church that is growing.

To wit:

Since 1994 the archdiocese of Boston has closed 104 parishes, a 25% decrease

40% (or about 120) of the remaining churches operate at a loss and have to be subsidized by the archdiocese

In Feb 2011 the archdiocese declared that an unspecified number of additional parish closings will be necessary.

Boston's main seminary, St. John's, recently celebrated its largest class in 20 years: 80 men. In the 1950s-60s, this number would have been considered low.

Mass attendance as recently as the 1970s hovered around 70%. That number dropped to 40% by 2000, to 17% by 2010.

If current trends continue, the percentage of catholics that go to Sunday
mass in the archdiocese will be in the single digits by 2020 and by 2050 should be 1%--i.e. 99% of Boston Catholics will not be participating in archdiocesan activities in a meaningful way.

Clearly, something is wrong in the archdiocese, and the wider church in general. This debate about supporting or not supporting deacons will be seen by future generations as arguing about the proper arrangement of those old deck chairs on the Titanic.

The diaconate is the only way the Boston and American church can grow. Indeed, if you look at the data from western Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Australia, the Catholic church is declining everywhere there is a secular, modern republic.

It may sound "prejudicial" to

It may sound "prejudicial" to speak in this way of foreign priests as presiders at liturgy. But unless you are a parishioner who goes to church week after week and is unable to EVER understand what the priest is saying in his homily, you cannot have any idea of the frustration that causes - and of the sense of alienation from parish life.

I have been to parishes where the priest has written out his homily phonetically and reads it in a way that sounds like a mechanical digital voice. In my own parish, I lived for several years in a parish where no one could understand more than about a third of what the priest said, whether in conversation or from the pulpit.

If you have deacons who can preach well, it seems foolish not to use them.

Phyllis, you made me wonder

Phyllis, you made me wonder about your concept of the priesthood if you prefer American deacon to an African or Indian priest.
It is very sad to mention that the Church preaches so much unity and inclusiveness, but some Catholics, like you, cannot bridge racial barriers. While it may be undeniable that some international priests are difficult to understand, to give you a break on their services to the faithful is way beyound bound, let alone preferring a deacon to a priest.

What do you think you can do to help those priests who lack the basic culutral understanding and difficult communication?

You complain about foreign

You complain about foreign priests who preach knowing little about of the local culture. But there are quite a few U.S.-raised priests who also know little about the local culture. We can cringe and be free of prejudice.

Re the foreign priests and

Re the foreign priests and intelligibility ---

It is not stereoptyping nor unwelcoming to accept the fact that some non native speakers of English need to improve their pronunciation skills before taking on homilies or any other form of public speaking. This is true for priests, ministers, professors, grad students and anyone else. There are classes in which they can do this.

My father in law is a Methodist and for some years his parish has had as pastor a lovely man who came from India. The congregation is heavily tilted to the older age range and many of them had genuine difficulty understanding his sermons. It was not just his accent -- he also speaks very fast, and many of the "mature" congregants also have hearing loss. They just could not "catch" what he was saying before he was on to the next sentence or thought. Sermons are very important to Methodists. If you can't understand the sermon, you might as well not have gone to church.

He acknowledged the problem and undertook several means to solve it --- for one thing, he worked hard on "slowing down!" He also provided printed copies of his sermons, both on the parish website and as paper copies handed out at the beginning of the service.

The people who were hard of hearing never quite got 100% of what he was saying, but at least they could read the sermons. Catholic priests with the same problem could take a page from this man's book.

You are missing her point.

You are missing her point. Catholic priests no matter their nationality are terrible preachers because they have little to say they are not doing the church's charity.

Why do we so rarely see any

Why do we so rarely see any acknowledgement of the obvious? In societies where opportunities for higher education and professional careers are few, proportionately many more answer affirmatively the call to a celibate male priesthood. It was just so in Ireland and for Irish Catholic Americans (and other immigrant nationalities) not so very long ago. In "developed" economies career alternatives are comparatively many. In my view importing priests from developing countries which still have far higher ratios of laity to priests is a crime against their home churches (Send them the money to support their priests at home, it would be far cheaper). If Catholicism is to remain (become?)an effective participant and moral benchmark in modern developed societies (i.e., not a ineffectual passive remnant), ways must be found to enlist many more of the willing non-ordained in the work of the Church, not fewer. Is it not obvious that the model of the priest pastor as temporal manager and governor of a parish is unsustainable in the US? Whatever the bishops do, we will by necessity evolve to priests providing sacramental services to multiple parishes administered by non-ordained ministers, and, I hope, lay parish councils.

Do you remember the embarrassed US bishop who recently implored the laity of his diocese to not trust him, but rather trust the church? What does this imply if not a less domineering role for bishops as servants of the People of God?

In my parish the permanent deacon drew the assignment to sell the absurd and unnecessary "new translation" from the pulpit. I doubt that was an accident. I think bishops who neglect the permanent deaconate are missing this opportunity to express the unpalatable through non-clerical ministers whose credibility is relatively intact. [Our bishop assigned a religious sister to lead the marketing effort of the archdiocese for the new English version; a slight variation on the same theme.]

Let us continue to pray for the church founded and sustained by Our Lord but governed with "knavish imbecility" (Hilaire Belloc) by fallible men.

"...Nobody really cares

"...Nobody really cares whether they are married or not, though married men lend an added dimension to the deacon's special (and traditional) role serving as a bridge between the bishop and the rest of the church."

Oh yes, they do care, and very much so. Their caring is the reason that I personally do not wish to see even a single new deacon ordained. If a permanent deacon's wife should predecease him, he is not permitted to remarry and remain a deacon. His original call to marriage, one must assume, must have been in error and his new vocation is to be celibate. God changed God's mind. Should his life be lonely, should he need assistance at home in the years ahead, the Church is not going to assist him with those problems. No, that will just be his cross to carry with Jesus.

You may be interested to hear

You may be interested to hear that Rome does grant dispensations from this regulation. In the diocese in which I live, there are two widower deacons who received permission from Rome (requested by the bishop) and are now happily remarried.

The problem that Zagano does not touch on is the creeping clericalism of the diaconate. A proportion of permanent deacons are nothing more than priests manqués — wannabe priests, if you prefer, who have neither the intelligence nor the charism to be ordained as actual priests, even if they are single men. The way some of them behave is scandalous. The way they behave to their wives (if they are married) also leaves a lot to be desired. The lust for power is hard to resist.

I agree with those who posted above concerning the standard of training of early applicants, and the fact that deacons can in some circumstances be taking away apostolic roles from lay people.

It's worth remembering that when it was first proposed to reinstate the permanent diaconate, this was primarily aimed at benefiting mission countries, not territories like the U.S.

At one level, that is good to

At one level, that is good to hear (re the re-marriage) but at another level it is really no one's business. Yes, I understand that the person made a promise of celibacy post wife's decease, but that should never have been extracted. Asking permission presumes the possibility of a "No" answer.

I agree with your point about

I agree with your point about a Bishop's need for a strong diaconate to serve as his "ears, mouth, heart and soul". A bishop needs trustworthy priests and deacons to enable him to do what God calls him to do.

I, too, have seen the problem with foreign priests giving unintelligible homilies, or homilies given with some misunderstandings of the English language as spoken by modern day Americans. Generally the foreign priests I have seen have a sound spiritual life and are faithful to the church's teachings - but that is lost when giving the homily.

I will also add that I have seen an abundance of older priests who speak English very clearly and with a solid grasp of the English language in their homilies. How I wish they had as sound a spiritual life and were as faithful to the church's teachings as the foreign priests. Unfortunately I have heard too many modernist heresies and/or political views in homilies that defy church teaching that were very clearly stated in intelligent English.

As to deacons as homilists, I have heard both good and bad homilies from deacons over the last 3 decades, but generally the best deacons I have heard are on the same level spiritually and intellectually as the best priests I have heard. I think it is just my experience, but I have heard less heresy in homilies by deacons than I have in homilies from priests. I certainly have heard astoundingly good homilies from both. And at least in my experience, the recently ordained priests seem to have it all: solid spiritual lives and excellent homiletic training.

It seems to me the biggest problem the Catholic church in the United States has is one of inadequate and in some cases inaccurate catechesis. Priests can't do it all, and the laity need the bishop to point to who is trustworthy to teach. Before the poorly catechized can be gotten to a classroom, the only teaching they will hear is the homily - so make the most of it. A deacon who has gone through the process, pledged obedience to the bishop and been given the grace of orders seems to me to be a strong way a bishop can point to those with the requisite dedication and education.

When we pray for vocations

When we pray for vocations why do we omit the calling to marriage and to the single life ?

This shows our failure to practice inclusivity at the basic level .

We need to learn the priesthood of baptism and plumb its depths .

"Knavish imbecility" from

"Knavish imbecility" from Belloc is a great description of Jesus' choice of the first 12 who were not very well prepared, humanly speaking to take on the Church's global mandate! Given the work of the Holy Spirit to transform them, they turned out very well. The Church now sees that there is a crisis, tthe Church in the USA and Central and South America, Africa and Asia was served by non- natives and still relies on them as their own native hierarchy and clergy and religious grew to the point they are now missionaries. It is unfortunate tnat so many are incapable of speaking English as natives so we shall rely on the Holy Spirit to decide what is next. As to Anglican and Lutheran married cclergy being ordained, they are as I expewrienced in the USA not regular parish clergy but have special roles, I may be very wrong on that point, it was my experiencce living there and being aware as a journalist of developing trends. I do have to agree that the first batch of deacons I encountered were "laymen turned into monsignors" - doddering old farts for the most part with few exceptions.
The re-training going on now is a development with which I am not familiar but I do recall when the training in some places was a vast improvement on the first classes of deacons. The Spirit will sort it out. T revert to the early Church begkinning with the apostles, we must needs give the Holy Spirit time to educate, lead, sanctify the whole Church. That takes time as noted above by one post. Expecting overnight miracles is magic, not Jesus' way.

Interesting article and

Interesting article and replies. First I am a deacon ordained to the the sacrament of Holy Orders 33 years ago. I have served the Church during my civilan lifestyle while paying my mortgage,utilities,and supporting four children and my wife of 51 years.I have served in five diocese. I am now retired working p/t in a liurgtical & social ministry. From those perspective I have gathered the following over the years:
a significant percentages of diocesian bishops & priests are intimidated by deacons and their wifes
a significant percentage of deacons are good homiliest because they speak the gospel from lived experiences
a significant percentage of deacons have sundry theological opinions as opposed to cookie cutter theological opinions;yet are able and willing to serve the people of God
a significant percentage of deacons live a prayful life
a significant percentage of deacons maintain contact with continuing education programs.
For me over this course of life it has been difficult at times, but the rewards have outweighed the dissapointments.I continue to pray that the Bishops understand the diaconate & become less intimadated by it. That good people of God of both genders continue to apply to become part of the diaconate as they is so much work to be done.

Women should be ordained to

Women should be ordained to the deaconate and a promise of celibacy when a deacons spouse passes should be withdrawn. Deacons should be given much more responsibility for church institutions and property, there are too few priests to bother them with administration - and they should act in concert to do the affairs of the diocese. Medieval administration would be quaint if it were handled well - it has not been. Modern non-profit management is needed, with leadership by ordained deacons free to marry. Deacons should also be empowered to hear confessions. Is this the camel's nose on a married and female friendly priesthood? I dearly hope so. It also provides a path for Protestant ministers to come in and be something other than priests.

Deacons rock!!! But I have

Deacons rock!!! But I have noted significant holes in their formation that affect their performance. I'm hoping that's why some bishops are slowing down the process so that the formation can be improved, with more thorough theology and liturgical training.

Here in Colorado Springs we

Here in Colorado Springs we have many deacons and I have found them to be more concerned about the "office" of the deacon rather than the "service" of the deacon. They are not well formed (and for that matter, neither are our priests), but that is a whole other can of worms. Deacons do not solve the problem of a lack of priests need to celebrate eucharist...they can't do it. I would welcome deacons under the following auspices: 1) We have enough priests to serve every parish so that deacons are support to a priest, not in a role as to run the parish 2) Deacons need to be well formed, not just window dressing as a big altar boy 3) Deacons do not have to serve at every mass...they add very little value during the mass...again mostly window dressing 4) And surely I don't want a deacon that thinks he has to be the "master of ceremonies" at every Sunday liturgy, pointing to the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion and the altar servers every time they need to get the book, get the cruets etc. 5) And I am tired of seeing a deacon kneel every time they pass the altar/tabernacle during mass. It is not called for and makes them look like pharisees.

If you want to be a deacon, be one for the right reason...to serve God and your community, not to be dressed up and noticed!

Maybe Zagano is right but

Maybe Zagano is right but what sane person would want to be a deacon? There are priests who don't think deacons or lay Eucharistic ministers should be able to conduct Communion services even though this is the only way parishioners in rural areas can receive the Eucharist more than once or twice a month. The same bishop who reigns in a deacon and the pastor who resents his prescence will both use him like a pack mule so that his priorities end up being:
A) his ministry
B) his ministry
C) his ministry
D) family and job when he has the time.
I've actually seen this happen. This is also why my father withdrew from formation as a permanent deacon six month before his ordination.

Finally, the canon law professor at Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit is making a name for himself by writing that deacons and their wives are bound to observe continence. This was required of married priests in the Roman Rite until celibacy was imposed in the AD 1000s as a condition for ordination. Would you put it past an ambitious priest or bishop not to start trying to meddle in sex lives of permanent deacons if it could get him into Rome's good graces? It's a ridiculous suggestion but in the last twenty or thirty years the Vatican, the bishops, and some priests have done some rather ridiculous things.

Overall good article.

Overall good article. Although, a couple of mistakes: the early Church had "deaconnesses" not women deacons. They were not sacramentally ordained. And there is an open question as to whether "permanent deacons" in the early Church were celibate or lived in a "Josephite marriage", not in the modern situation where married deacons live like any other married man.
If you want to know the state of the question, you need to know real Church history, not the liberal-minded rendering of Church history which interprets things to support their agenda.
The real issue at hand is the education and formation of deacons. The rush to start training permanent deacons in the 1970s (my Father was in one of the first ordination classes in my diocese) led to deacons who were not prepared to officially represent the church as an ordained cleric. This has continued in some dioceses. The recent examination of seminary and religious formation in our country has also led to an examination of formation for the diaconate.

You are mistaken in writing

You are mistaken in writing "the early Church had "deaconnesses" not women deacons. They were not sacramentally ordained." The job title "deacon is frist used--in Scripture--for Phoebe. She is not called "deaconess". Some later women ministers were called "deaconess" and many were called "deacn." They were ordained in the same ceremonies as men deacons--until the 12th century in the west and until the present in the east. You need to read some genuine historical work by Gary Macy or Ute Eisen before you start spreading more inaccuracies.

The phrase in Romans 16 is

The phrase in Romans 16 is ambiguous at best. The use of the term "diakonos" could mean deacon, deaconness, or servant. By limiting it to deacon, you are taking a stand that most don't believe to be the case. There is not enough evidence to assert with certainty that Phoebe was a deacon in the sacramental sense (as opposed to being a servant).

Anonymous on Nov. 18,

Anonymous on Nov. 18, 2011.
Overall good article. Although, a couple of mistakes: the early Church had "deaconnesses" not women deacons. They were not sacramentally ordained. And there is an open question as to whether "permanent deacons" in the early Church were celibate or lived in a "Josephite marriage", not in the modern situation where married deacons live like any other married man.
If you want to know the state of the question, you need to know real Church history, not the liberal-minded rendering of Church history which interprets things to support their agenda.
The real issue at hand is the education and formation of deacons. The rush to start training permanent deacons in the 1970s (my Father was in one of the first ordination classes in my diocese) led to deacons who were not prepared to officially represent the church as an ordained cleric. This has continued in some dioceses. The recent examination of seminary and religious formation in our country has also led to an examination of formation for the diaconate.
-----------------------------------------------
Your comment about a "Josephite marriage" is laughable. Mary and Joseph lived like all the other people of their society. Jewish society considered many children a blessing. From Psalms we read "Like many arrows in a quiver are the sons of one's youth. Happy such a man is when he disputes with his enemies in the gateways."

There is absolutely no reason why Joseph (who was probably a widower with young children when he was matched with Mary, to be his wife,) would not have had children with Mary. It was only when our Church became infected with Gnosticism that it became crucial that Mary be seen as a virgin before, during, and after giving birth to Jesus.

And if the Church proclaimed that she was a virgin always----then, poor Joseph had to be celibate as well. But no self-respecting Jew in the 1st century in Palestine would have agreed to that.

And if you think that is a 'liberal' slant to the study of Church history---then you haven't been to Israel to study the culture of the people.

As far as 'deaconness' is concerned---why doesn't St. Paul in his 16th Chapter of his 'Letter to the Romans' refers to Phoebe as a 'Deacon'? And in his 'Letter to Timothy' women in this ministry are referred to as 'deacons'.

The fact that you consider

The fact that you consider the orthodox Catholic faith as "laughable" reveals much. I actually have been to Israel to study the culture (which, by the way, is 21st century Judaism, not 1st century Judaism, be careful of anachronism). But these personal details are not relevant to the discussion, they only serve to attempt to belittle me (an "ad hominem" attack). Don't worry, I've been treated poorly before because of my beliefs. I've actually gotten used to it these days.
Your assertion that a Josephite marriage isn't possible because it was foreign to the culture is a weak argument. Think of today's sex-saturated culture and then consider the celibate priesthood. Isn't that "counter-cultural"? Of course it is, yet it still exists and is the standard (I'm a celibate, so you'll just have to trust me that celibacy is a healthy, life-giving gift to the church. Heck, don't trust me, trust the Church, she's a bit more authoritative).
"Diaconos" in the original text of Romans 16 can mean deacon, but it can also mean "servant" (a more likely translation). It is not a proof of a female ordained diaconate in the early church.
It is time that we return to the sensus fidei.

Pope Benedict 16 caled Phoebe

Pope Benedict 16 caled Phoebe a "deacon", so whatever it meant then menas "deacon" to the pope today. As far as "proof" of what you cal "a female ordained diaconate in the early church"--if women were not "ordained" then neither were men. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of manuscripts that demonstrate early liturgies to ordain both men and women as deacons. Yes, it is time we return to the "sensus fidei"--the people of God seem to want ordained women.

Just out of interest, a while

Just out of interest, a while back I was reading up on the Orthodox Churches. They have married priests and (sorry I can't remember the exact word used) but in effect the priest's wife is called mrs. priest. It doesn't mean she is a priestess, the husband is the priest but the wife has a certain standing in the community and has social responsibilities etc. Wanting a bit more personal information I found a parish in my area and emailed the priest. As a female enquirer, sure enough it was the priest's wife who came back to me, which I thought was quite appropriate. It seems to me that having married priests is a good abuse prevention tactic, not simply because it is likely to provide a more sexually healthy clergy, but also because of the social role of the wife. I am not an expert on early Church history and I know there are women who want to be priests rather than mrs. priest, but I feel that a celibate male priesthood is asking for problems for all sorts of reasons and I'm not sure that simply having women priests will magically make everything better. One comment I read somewhere (not a Church related issue) was a man who said it's good to know that now women rule the world it still sucks! As a woman myself, I am quite sure that women are as varied as men and women are not necessarily more capable of saving the world (or the Church.) By nature (God's design) it seems that men and women should be partners with complimentary roles rather than competitive roles. If priests' wives are respected in the community and offer a supportive role for their husbands, that seems like a good model to me.

Just a few observations. 1.

Just a few observations.
1. One of the best preachers I have ever heard was a retire gentleman who was a convert from Latter Day Saints and who became a deacon. He was an excellent speaker. He was able utilize his experience growing up in Utah to apply to the readings that Sunday. He was able to illustrate simply the lessons to be learned and reviewed that day.

2. There are parishes in the United States where the administrator is a woman but is not a deacon.I find this very insulting. The Church had woman deacons in the past and we need them today. In that parish the woman deacon could preach, baptize, marry and bury as well the other duties she performs. There is no doctrinal problem with women deacons, only hard hearts.

3. I really encourage the laity to get up in Church and shout, NO! Pastors and bishops must be accepted by the flock to hold office. A little gumption by a few lay people might be catching. You don't have to take it and you don't have to leave.

By the way I vote in every election. Sometimes my selections win and sometimes they don't. I still vote. Accepting or rejecting a pastor or bishop is a responsibility. The reason that laity are overlooked is that we have not exercised it. So expect to lose a few before we win some.

And why not also revive the

And why not also revive the non-sacramental ministry of deaconess? There is ample precedent and even texts for the conferral of this ministry,esp. in the Eastern Churches,where it has been undergoing a cautious revival. Already many women in the Church are performing the functions of the ancient ministry of deaconess. It may merit a some liturgical affirmation.

You are partly mistaken. The

You are partly mistaken. The Eastern Churches are ordaining women as deacons.

Thanks for the helpful

Thanks for the helpful post.
KimkasJK

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