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PDF versionTen years later, controversial New York church still thrives
by Jamie L Manson on Nov. 30, 2011
Ten years after her historic ordination, Mary Ramerman rarely makes it into the papers anymore. Watching her minister as a priest today, it may be hard to believe that she was at the center of a highly publicized, painful battle between the diocese of Rochester, N.Y., and the parish then known as Corpus Christi in the late 1990s.
Back then, Corpus Christi was a Roman Catholic parish on the fringe. Led by Fr. Jim Callan, a charismatic priest with a radical commitment to the poor and marginalized, the church was known for taking risks.
They invited everyone to Communion, they blessed the unions of gay and lesbian couples (though never on diocesan property) and they allowed Mary Ramerman, the parish's lay associate pastor, to preach and to stand with Callan at the altar during the Eucharistic prayer. Eventually, she was also invited to raise the chalice during the consecration.
In time, all of this radical inclusiveness caught up with them. Diocesan officials moved Callan to another parish. They replaced him with a group of pastoral administrators, including two women, who fired Ramerman in October 1998. Most of the rest of the staff were let go just before Christmas of that year.
A large part of the community regrouped and, with Ramerman's leadership, renamed themselves Spiritus Christi. Callan joined them for a service and, as a result, was automatically barred from serving the Rochester diocese. After that, he joined the community, too.
The 400 people who gathered for Ramerman's 10-year anniversary Mass and dinner on the evening of Nov. 17, 2011, have moved far beyond those difficult memories. They cherish their identity as Catholics, love the sacramental tradition and are grounded in the theology of the preferential option for the poor. They don't think much about Rome or the hierarchy of the diocese of Rochester anymore.
"I have found it so immensely freeing to not have to hang on to that mode of thinking that says, 'We are Catholic, you are not Catholic,'" Ramerman told me in an interview earlier this week. "When I became free of that system, it opened up such a greater understanding of God and the people around me."
Ramerman admits that, initially, Spiritus Christi did hope to be welcomed back into the institutional church. "A lot of people don't realize that after our split with the diocese, we continued as a parish led by a celibate, male priest. We thought that maybe in a year or two they would miss us and welcome us back."
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As the parish gradually realized that this invitation would not be forthcoming, they also realized that they had a newfound freedom to create the church for which they had longed. They began to contemplate whether Ramerman should become an ordained member of the community.
The discernment began in late 1998. Ramerman was ordained in November 2001.
This form of parishwide dialogue and decision-making has always been the hallmark of this group's process, even before they split from the diocese. It was the style of leadership envisioned by Callan, who had a remarkable gift for empowering the laity to develop ministries that responded to the needs of the community.
When Ramerman and her husband, Jim, arrived at the vibrant but dirt-poor Corpus Christi Church in 1983, they found a kindred spirit in Callan. He had a uniquely nonclerical willingness to allow the Spirit to flow through the work of the laity. He understood and accepted his own limitations. He trusted the staff and encouraged their gifts.
That spirit of mutual trust and the commitment to creating a loving, supportive environment continues to guide the members of Spiritus Christi to this day. Ramerman serves as pastoral administrator and Callan is associate pastor. The community's senior pastor, according to the church's bulletin and website, is Jesus Christ.
The pastoral team meets weekly for staff meetings and, each month, gathers for a "state of the heart" session where they speak openly about the happenings in their personal lives, their families and the effect of their ministries on their own emotions and spirits. These sessions foster mutual affirmation among the pastoral team.
"We have a lot of lay people who preach and lead lay Communion services," Ramerman explains. "The laity take over all of the liturgies when Jim and I are away. It's not something they want to do every week, but they love telling us how great it was. We are thrilled by that."
But it is the cutting-edge ministry to the poor and marginalized that has defined this community since Callan arrived in the mid-1970s. What began then as a small ministry dedicated to responding to the community's most pressing needs for food and clothing today looks more like a moderately sized social service agency.
Spiritus runs a mental health center; two rehabilitation houses for formerly incarcerated women and men; a safe home for men recovering from drug and alcohol addiction; an active prison ministry; and outreach centers in Borgne, Haiti, and Chiapas, Mexico.
Construction is currently under way on their latest endeavor, a supportive housing apartment building with 37 units.
In addition to their own ministries, the community has also remained committed to supporting outside organizations. Since the 1980s, the parish staff has allotted a certain percentage of their parish collections to be given to other outreach programs. Over the past three decades, this tithe has grown from 5 percent to 15 percent.
In the midst of so much extraordinary work, Ramerman's day seems strikingly similar to the average day of an ordinary priest or pastor. Throughout the week, she celebrates several of the daily Masses offered by Spiritus. These liturgies are held either at the site of their offices at Downtown United Presbyterian Church or at a local Baptist church.
Much of the rest of her week involves hospital and home visits, anointing the sick, planning and officiating weddings, and performing funerals.
"Those are really defining moments in people's lives," Ramerman says. "In the structure of the church, the sacraments are very important to what a priest does, and I've found that's even more important than I thought it would be."
"I think I've grown in my understanding of the role of the priest," Ramerman reflects. "Fundamentally, my role is to love people and to forgive people. I don't think there is anything more powerful than when I do that. And if I don't do that well, it is harmful to people. They need to know that they are loved and they need to know that they are forgiven."
Ramerman admits that Spiritus is sometimes criticized for being too traditional.
"They ask me, 'Why do you wear an alb?' or 'Why do you allow people to call you reverend?'" she said. "Given our size, we can grow quickly in terms of preaching or social action, but other areas, like changing these traditions, have to move a lot more slowly."
Spiritus currently has 1,500 active parishioners, including 250 families, with 1,100 people attending one of the parish's three weekend Masses every week. They are the largest non-Roman Catholic-identifying congregation in the country.
This is part one of a two-part series. The next part can be found here.
HOPEFUL EXAMPLE !
HOPEFUL EXAMPLE ! ........... Thanks, Jamie, for bravely updating us on an example of what can be done when hierarchical coercion is resisted.
The success of Spiritus Christi is a bishop's worst nightmare. It proves that increasingly Catholics will take only so much of the mystical smokescreens and can and will act when their bishops continue to stonewall them.
The pope's address in Rome to the NY bishops led by Timothy Dolan last Saturday suggests neither he nor the bishops have discerned much about what is really going in the US among Catholics.
For more information on the pope's surprising recent remarks to NY bishops, please note the NCR comment and related cross links under the comment heading, "Why New Evangelization?" , accessible by clicking on at:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/b16-us-bishops-evangelize
My husband and I have
My husband and I have participated in the liturgies of Mary Ramerman and Jim Callan on several occasions at Gall to Action where there is standing room only!
I always come away with tears in my eyes, because the Mass is so moving and authentic. Oh that all liturgies could touch the soul as they do! I have also read Jim Callan's book, "Pioneer Priest", which is an exceptional story of one woman's journey in ministry. We contribute to their parish mission in Haiti. If I lived closer to Spiritus Christi, I would be a member in a heart beat! They are truly living the Gospel!
Mary Jean Smith
Chetek, WI
wait. are they using the "new
wait. are they using the "new missal?" or prayer from the heart of each one?
"Gall to Action" - the most
"Gall to Action" - the most appropriate malaprop I've read in a long time.
Certainly the best since "I
Certainly the best since "I support the orcination of women" a few days ago!
Mark, may it compel each one
Mark, may it compel each one of us into action.
They gave Jesus gall upon the cross to cool his thirst.
Wonder we have not made of it a sacrament.
Until now.
Act.
No joke.
FYI Spiritus Christi
FYI Spiritus Christi Rochester also has two satellite churches. One in Elmira, N.Y. nd in Buffalo, N.Y. The Buffalo church, of which I am a member, meets every Sat. at 5PM at Pilgrim St. Luke's UCC and on the first Wed. of the month at 7PM when Jim Callan presides, All are welcome!
This is a beautiful
This is a beautiful story......Thank you..
This story needs no further
This story needs no further comment from me:
Two more Roman Catholic Churches have become casualties of a shrinking city population, changing demographics, and sharp increases in heating and building maintenance costs. Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at 60 Woodward Street said its last Mass in March, and Holy Redeemer/St. Francis Xavier at 300 Bay Street said its last Mass earlier this month.
Parishioners from the two churches have joined with Corpus Christi Church at 864 East Main Street, which has been renamed Our Lady of the Americas.
"It is very costly and next to impossible to maintain three large worship sites and three aged complexes that only draw 500 or so people between them," says Doug Mandelaro, a spokesperson for the Rochester Diocese.
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/news/articles/CHURCHES:+Church+clo...
Yes. This is what we
Yes. This is what we traditional and conservative Catholics have been saying. If you do not like the Catholic Church as it is set up today, then start your own church. Those of us who are happy and pleased with the Magesterium do not want our Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church reformed or changed.
Be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wish for.
Anto ignores the most radical
Anto ignores the most radical reforms enforced under wojo and ratzo in the name of tradition, but which is corporate totalitarianism as never seen before, favoring the rich and powerful with a preferential option, eradicating the poor, the 99%, and it shows.
This ain't our tradition, what we see since 1980. Our tradition stands always with the poor, not with sheltering wealthy and powerful pedophiles.
San Anto, LOL LOL Sorry, but
San Anto, LOL LOL Sorry, but the Church is indeed Holy and Apostolic and it has always been a story of change and reform, since 33AD. With your mind made up, obviously you will never discover for yourself that Holy Church continues to change. Like many Catholics of your frame of mind, perhaps it's just as well you never do.
Pontifex Maximus Ratzinger would be pleased as punch.
Semper Reforma, Always
Semper Reforma, Always reforming. Because of the Reformation, the practice of selling indulgences, written about in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, was stopped. Would it have been anyways? No one will ever know.
Semper Reforma, Always reforming. Limbo is no longer taught by the RCC.
Semper Reforma, Always reforming. Since 1994 girls have been allowed to serve on the Altar. Some are trying to undo JPII's letter.
Semper Reforma, Always reforming. Since 1970 Holy Communion has been distributed on both species at Sunday Mass, depending on local custom and Priest's prerogative.
So I guess when one says they do not want their Church reformed or changed they are missing the fact that the Church is always reforming. If you want to lock in a certain time ( for the SSPX, that is September 1962 - Vatican Council II began in October 1962 ) then that's a respectable acknowledgement.
Dear San Anto
Dear San Anto Catholic,
Perhaps excommunication should be applied to a leadership that is in effect in schism with the People of God on so many issues. The leadership in so many areas beginning with episcopal behavior in the sexual and financial scandals has caused the de facto implosion of the church from within. They in effect are crushing the Catholic Church into many pieces. How will they be put back together. Thinking people will not tolerate the authoritarian model as the majority of this church reinvents itself over the next hundred years or so.
The real question that the People of God are asking of this leadership is: Are they even Christian? Do they believe in Christ in His Sermon on the mOunt or do they believe in the Old Testament God of reward and punishment. They have shown that they believe in the latter.
The facts show us that the laity must now apply a medicine to form a more responsive leadership for all the popes men can never put a pre Vatican II church back together again.
May the People of God use grace to make better decisions about who will lead.
R. Dennis Porch, MD
Yes, indeed, brother/sister.
Yes, indeed, brother/sister. I hope and believe that many others will form new communities guided by the Spirit of the Living God. We will be Holy. We will be Catholic. We will be Apostolic. And we will be free.
Has the Catholic Church
Has the Catholic Church looked at why Masses are dwindling down and churches need to close? Have you looked in your church and seen any young families or anyone under the age of 50? You can still remain catholic but be mindful of the changing spiritual needs of people who love their Catholic tradition, yet are longing desperately and desire greatly more creativity, energy, authentic living out of the Gospels we hear each week. We long to be inspired and hopeful, having Homilies and reflections relevant and relating to our lives today. I see Catholics afraid to clap,or celebrate joy at mass or fearful of the possibility of having to pray without it being written down in some script predetermined before hand. I love tradition and respect it...but just as a parent needs to work within the context of their child's life at school and the culture of the communities we live in, so does the Catholic Church. As we close many of our churches, other denominations are adding on to their worship spaces...makes you wonder? Appealing to the younger generations is vital to the Catholic Church growing and becoming strong once again. If we don't...we will become just like "KODAK"...thinking they do not need change or develope or grow to appeal to the younger buyer...and they are going bankrupt. Our younger generations don't just accept a leadership that likes to brush things under the rug and ignore the true reason for the clustering of our churches. Many of our Diocesan churches are asking us to buy into a depressing reactive approach to solving our financial issues and lack of priests with no clear or positive plan to draw our younger generations in creative and emotionally binding ways. They at best are trying to maintain the status quo and hold on to what they have left...Rome does not see our pain and frustration here in America. They can let all the sexual scandals of priests happen and never seek healing or admit any fault. Catholics need to remember that we were Christians before we are Catholic. We segregate ourselves from other Christian faiths, and become fearful of change and other faiths. When and if we get to the gates of heaven God and Jesus will probably ask us only a few important questions...What did you do for others and me, and do you believe that I am your savior. They will not ask if your were Catholic or not or how many times you attended mass...it is more about what you do when you are not at mass.
I am a 60+ year old
I am a 60+ year old practicing cradle Roman Catholic. If I lived in New York, this would be my parish. Alleluia! Praise God!
as one with sixty in sight,
as one with sixty in sight, assisted living would be nice, you know?
that had been my plan while a teenager heading for monastic community, to assist and be assisted, for a lifetime (see the very Reverend Sister Joan Chittister OSB's books).
As a hermit I do not know that the future holds but diminishing capacities, alone.
FHKJ, A new Catholic Church
FHKJ, A new Catholic Church is being constructed before our eyes with B16's omophorion placed over a smaller and smaller segment of it. We're witnessing the death of the ancient regime. It is the passing of the old European ecclesial order promising a spaceship journey back to the past.
So, there will be many parishes such as this one popping up in New York and elsewhere, and sooner than you think. Just hold on.
The death an ancient regime:
The death an ancient regime: Check the ages of the people at groups like this "church" with any community praying the Extraordinary form and then come back and say which one is the "ancient regime that is dying."
It appears to that NCR
It appears to that NCR supports people going into schism. There is nothing Catholic about this protestant religious community.
On the contrary: There is
On the contrary: There is everything "Catholic"
And it seems more and more
And it seems more and more that the truly Chirsitian among us are not within the walls of Roman Catholic churches but within the walls of Protestant ones. Comments like the above seem to prove the point,
MinneCatholic, Please
MinneCatholic,
Please explain how NCR publishing this article supports people going into schism. Just because you may not agree with the article does not mean that it shouldn't be published.
Dan Pickett
AMEN!
AMEN!
MinneCatholic, By going into
MinneCatholic, By going into schism as you put it, the Christ-like, witnessing community of Corpus Christi doesn't automatically become "protestant". Any more than Corpus Christi would become "Greek Orthodox", or "Muslim". The traditional, textbook definition of Catholic unity under Rome which fewer Catholics embrace now, and most Christians have never accepted (the East for as long as 1500 years), and never will accept is a dog that just won't hunt anymore.
Benny has second act, no way of stopping the hemorrhaging. A dog and pony show and stage act spouting what passes for eternal verities being repudiated as hollow,false, and unsupportable historically. With fewer and fewer customers willing to buy a ticket directing them "this way to the egress".
There may be nothing "Roman"
There may be nothing "Roman" Catholic in this community, but it is certainly catholic -- if catholic means "universal." As Desmond Tutu is want to say, "God loves us all. What is it about "all" that you don't get?"
What a wonderful story about the power of the Holy Spirit -- she will not be walled out or walled in. She flows where she wishes, and the hierarchs do not control her.
The whole concept of schism
The whole concept of schism is skewed, depending on what side of the divide you’re on. If you believe your institution is the only, true, always-right one, then schism is always equated with rebellion and error…the mentality behind Benedict XVI’s saying that other Christian denominations aren’t churches in the “true” sense. If one holds that “you don’t have to be Roman to be Catholic” (a motto circulating in the Ecumenical Catholic Communion and maintained by every church that holds to the ancient Creeds), that the Mystical Body of Christ is composed of all the past/present/future baptized, and that “to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God” (Jn 1:12), then a negative evaluation of schism is merely a lack of imagination and a lack of trust in the Spirit. True, we continue prayer for healing of Christ’s historically broken Body, but sometimes you have to step outside the box to get any work (God’s work) done.
What a waste of that St.
What a waste of that St. Bernard M.Div, Mike.
Why save it when good toilet
Why save it when good toilet tissue is readily available?
why post anonymously unless
why post anonymously unless you fear what you write?
Excellent reflection.
Excellent reflection.
@MinneCatholic...It isn't
@MinneCatholic...It isn't ROMAN Catholic. But it is Catholic. Rome doesn't have a patent on Catholic. Rome only gets to define it's brand of Catholic; a brand increasing numbers of Catholics aren't aren't buying any longer. Dictionary.com defines Catholic as: adjective (1) broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. (2) universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
Sounds right to me.
Yah know, I don't recall
Yah know, I don't recall Jesus ever going to Rome.
In fact, I'd bet cash money He would be more than a little horrified with the Roman/Byzantine Imperial aspects of the largest Catholic denomination. Rome is several hundred miles from Calvary, and (on the evidence) a lot farther spiritually. Everyone must pick their own path, but I don't think one need fear that freedom from Rome is spiritually dangerous.
I predict many such parishes
I predict many such parishes will leave the Church and become members of other branches of the Holy Catholic Church or perhaps form a "Church in exile" until the current imperial system implodes.
Perhaps they will become
Perhaps they will become "Roaming Catholics" ;-)
I had opportunity to
I had opportunity to participate in mass concelebrated by Mary at CTA. I was amazed by the presence and warmth she exuded. For those who think Spirits Christi is Protestant or moved away from Catholic community, guess again. They have just moved back into what it is supposed to be, ie, Catholic =universal, which means "ALL EMBRACING."
I believe in One Holy ALL EMBRACING and Apostolic Church. Their congregation really is what Catholicism is all about--Service/Justice-oriented, truly sacramental, pastoral, contemplative, inclusive, compassionate. I live in Milwaukee and I wish we really had something going like Spiritus Christ. We have one parish (SS Peter & Paul) which is very justice-oriented and a beautiful witness to Christ, but it just doesn't even come close to what is going on in Rochester NY! No offense to SSPP congregation who probably would like to get there. May God's Holy Spirit so move us!
There are other inclusive
There are other inclusive non-Roman, Catholic communities across the country, large and small which maintain a Catholic identity and preserve apostolic succession in their ordained ministry. One example is the Reformed Catholic Church. We have congregations in Ohio, California, Arizona, Idaho, Montana and one small congregation 50 miles SW of Spiritus Christi in Rochester. Google "independent + catholic" and you can find many non Roman choices.
Why do you value apostolic
Why do you value apostolic succession if you do not want to be in communion with the successor of Peter?
The value of apostolic
The value of apostolic succession (and most of these Catholic churches are headed by bishops with valid apostolic succession) is that Rome, by its own rules and traditions, will eventually have to take them seriously unless it wants a schism on the left like the LeFebrvists on the right. So far the US bishops have publically pretended these churches don't exist (though I know they've been discussed a lot inside USCCB offices) even though there are a couple hundred such churches already in the US, maybe more than the number of conservative parishes that have split from ECUSA. If and when the numbers of Catholics attending these churches gets big enough and challenging enough the bishops and Rome will be forced to deal with them.
This is what I don't get
This is what I don't get about people like this group and the fake women priests. They spend half their time saying "we won't listen to any bishop we will do whatever we want because WE ARE CHURCH" and the other half of their time saying "please please please pretty please accept us!!!" Which is it???
Claims to "valid apostolic
Claims to "valid apostolic succession" are meaningless when people don't actually believe the same things.
Virginia is headquarters of
Virginia is headquarters of the non-Roman Catholic Diocese of the Holy Spirit (see website). The diocese now has over 30 priests from several countries including several women. Yes, such churches are springing up everywhere.
Please explain why you are
Please explain why you are still in the Church established by Christ and not a member in this church you hold in such esteem?
What I read in this article
What I read in this article is a community living the Gospel of Jesus Christ and open and listening to the Holy Sprit movement in the community - "where two or three are gathered in my Name, there I am" - and I see the poor fed, "the blind see, the lame walk..." Ah, where would Jesus feel most at home?
I am a Spiritus Christi
I am a Spiritus Christi parishioner, 58 years of age, who because of my association with Spiritus, actually returned to the Catholic faith thirty years after leaving it. I like to refer to myself humorously as a "former ex-Catholic". I was infant baptized, and raised in a very observant Roman Catholic family here in Rochester, NY. As a youth I rebelled against the Roman Catholic Church, much to the disappointment of my father who was a very devout Catholic.
In the intervening years I became involved with several different spiritual churches and groups, that were enriching experiences. I still value and honor these diverse teachings, as well as my nomadic spiritual path in life.
Then in 1998, I followed the historic events of Corpus Christi, and the Spiritus Christi community that came out of it. Later, in 2003, in the wake of my divorce, I visited Spiritus Christi more out of curiosity as a history buff than anything else. I already knew that it was a socially active cutting edge Christian ministry. But what surprised and moved me, was how warm and loving a place it was. Unlike the Catholic faith I grew up with, it was truly accepting and welcoming of everyone, regardless of their background. And I was most impressed by their practice of serving everyone communion, with no Catholic membership requirement.
Gradually, I came to appreciate and value the mass and sacraments that I grew up with, now without all of the unfortunate baggage that came with the RCC organization's rules and practices; and started to refer to myself as "Catholic" once again. I also fell in love with the people and community of Spiritus Christi. Our woman priest and pastor Rev. Mary Ramerman, and Father James Callan, who is now our associate pastor; lead a spiritual community that truly practices the teachings of Jesus.
I pray that the mother church will look into its heart, and reform itself, inspired by the example and work of Spiritus Christi and many other dis-affiliated Catholic faith communities around the world.
Thank you for telling our story, in such a loving, positive, and unbiased way. Even if we never reunite with the mother church; we share a common faith in Jesus and his teachings.
Dear Louis, Thank you for
Dear Louis,
Thank you for sharing your story and giving us another testimony of the love, welcome, and community living in Spiritus Christi. While others talk about the Beatitudes and the whole Sermon on the Mount, you and your Community LIVE it. 'Preach the Gospel at all times --if necessary, use words." St. Francis of Assisi
I am an Episcopalian who
I am an Episcopalian who admires Spiritus Christi. I can tell you if I ever visit Rochester, that is where I will fulfill my Sunday Mass obligation.
Amen! Keep sharing...teaching
Amen! Keep sharing...teaching & honoring everyone! God is truly at work here! His word & church is heard all over the world! The church always makes me smile! All of you are so AMAZING! Amen!
I have followed the Spiritus
I have followed the Spiritus Christi saga from the beginning. I was stunned and rather outraged when everything began to fall apart. As a self-identified conservative/traditional Catholic, the issues of women's ordination, fidelity to the Magisterium, and Church unity undoubtedly surface once more in my mind as I read this article. And while I certainly believe these are hugely important issues, I do find myself absolutely moved by the true and sincere charity this community has for the poor. If but every church/chapel/ecclesial community/etc. in this country cared for Christ in the poor and abandoned as the people of Spiritus Christi do, I truly believe we would have much greater credibility as Christian men and women. Ecclesiological and deeper Sacramental problems aside, the good and beautiful charitable work that this community of baptized believers is engaged in should be an example for all of us. May God give each and every one of us the strength to respond to his poor with the same love, respect, and dedication as do the people of Spiritus Christi.
1. She is not in any sense a
1. She is not in any sense a priest;
2. The organisation described is not in any sense Catholic;
3. The pretentious Latin name amuses me;
4. I have real questions as to whether they are even Christians or just modern New Age folk, so open minded their brains are in danger of falling out their ear.
Bob
Have you visited the
Have you visited the community lately? Have you observed (or taken part in) a liturgy? Did you notice whether the money in the collection baskets is phony, or real?
Be sure and let us know. The sooner the better.
As for number 4, I think one
As for number 4, I think one would have to look at their baptismal rite. Do they baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or do they use some other formula. If they use some other formula, then they are most likely some other religion.
Take a step
Take a step back,MinnieCatholic.The question you should be asking is:Is there anything authentically Christ-like about this ministry? Try letting yourself be led by the Spirit of God for once,instead of checking your brains in at the so-called heirarchal door.I'm not trying to be insulting,but in a lost,despairing,sick,and hopeless world,throwing around labels like"protestant"and"catholic"is worth the breath you wasted to utter them??Seriously!Who was ministered to by your comment?Don't be among those who hated our Saviour for petty,spiteful,prideful reasons.His invitation still rings out tenderly,lovingly,compassionatelyto all who will respond:"Come unto Me,all ye that labor and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest"(Matthew11:28)-such sweet,sweet words,MinnieCatholic,filled with tender love,pity,and compassion!Read the Gospels again;you won't find those words coming from anyone in the heirarchy!!And,no"labels"were attached to that sweet invitation;it was"all ye".Our Saviour did not label us,He called us,MinnieCatholic.Don't make the mistake of trying to limit His call;that's not your place.
You think the world is
You think the world is hopeless? There may be sin in the world, but Christ came to save the world and that is what he did. How can you live without hope?
I guess it all comes down to
I guess it all comes down to - do you want to fall into the arms of God or live out of ego in the 'certainty' of doctrine?
Wish i lived in NYC!
I feel the NCR is being a
I feel the NCR is being a little misleading with this article. Why is a (supposedly) Catholic news outlet reporting on the activities of a schismnatic, protestant sect? This she-priest and her followers have nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic Church or the Catholic Faith. I'm sure this story might warrant a footnote in some fringe left-wing protestant magazine but I fail to see how it has any relevance to Roman Catholics in any way.
Excuse you DC The RCC of your
Excuse you DC The RCC of your dreams loves to operate secretly. They would never let the Sheeple know of the Corpus Christi church of NY. They are afraid many others will follow these People of Christ Like Integrity.
Domini, you don't read the
Domini, you don't read the NCR much, do you?
Actually, the
Actually, the Anglican/Episcopal tradition identifies as (largely) Catholic, but non-Roman, and has many communities larger than this one, with many women priests and bishops. The idea that there are high-performing non-Roman communities is centuries old.
I can describe myself as the
I can describe myself as the King of England, but it doesn't mean a thing in reality!
I sure wish there was such a
I sure wish there was such a parish in Chicago--as a "former" priest,I might consider going to mass again.
I would go there too!!!!!
I would go there too!!!!!
There is. Go to
There is. Go to www.csfcecc.org and check them out.
Does Spiritus Christi have
Does Spiritus Christi have its own church building, or does it share with another congregation? Does it have buildings to house its outreach ministries? It appears that Spiritus Christi puts its resources tot he service of others rather than to its own glory, and certainly rather than to the purchase of new Missals!
Spiritus rents space in a
Spiritus rents space in a Presbyterian Church... since that church needs the sanctuary mid-morning on Sunday, the 9:30 Mass is held at a music school down the street that was once also a Presbyterian Church. In 1999 when Spiritus was just getting underway, we raised some enormous sum of money, I think $100,000, to buy a building to house our ministry to people in recovery, before we even had a name. The new church (which for most of the first year was simply called "the New Faith Community") was first housed in a UCC church... when they raised the rent past what we could pay, we moved to Downtown Prebyterian. I thought it was pretty wonderful that as a church that sees itself as standing with the poor and those on the outside, we were moving around to find better rent.
Spiritus is no longer my church because I'm ordained myself, now, and have another ministry, but it is always home.
I will hand it to these folks
I will hand it to these folks at this conventical, they at least have the integrity to admit that they are not part of the Roman Church, and have formed their own little community. Would that more dissenters had the honesty and integrity to take this step. The Church would certainly be a more peaceful, harmonious and united place.
Apparently this Spiritus Christi community is happy with their "priestess" and their ego-centric priest who refused to be obedient to his ordinary, as he promised at his ordination. That's fine. It's sad that these two are giving off the impression that the services conducted by the "priestess" are legitimate sacraments, as they are misleading 1500 parishioners by trying to legitimize these farces, but apparently either their followers are too uneducated to know the difference, or just don't care. Either way, though, they have led 1500 people, or more, into formal schism with Mother Church; not something I would want on my conscience at the moment of my particular judgment. But, hey, at least they have a "priestess".
In any event, if this is the future of the Church as envisioned by the aging liberals, thank God for the reform of the reform. And thank God that the Holy Spirit will protect His Church from this type of nonsense.
I don't like the term "reform
I don't like the term "reform of the reform" because it suggests we are changing what was already changed as if it was flawed and we need to tweak it a bit. I prefer "authentic implementation of the Second Vatican Council" because that is what it is. I think now that the dust of Vatican II has settled we can go back and take a look at what Vatican II actually did and not get swept away in the emotion of what we thought it would do. The documents are very clear and inspiring.
This remarkable woman a
This remarkable woman a priest in every way a PRIEST and no one can challenge the validity of her ordination. This community is to me, what Jesus envisioned as His Church. The hatred directed at this woman and this community by right wingers within the decaying old order imperial Church, is their last gasp. The snarky comments in this thread show how threatened they are by change, which by the way, is coming rapidly. I have no doubt the "Real Presence" is in the sacraments that she celebrates with the rest of this remarkable Catholic community. The Church of Rome is but one of the many branches of the Holy Catholic Church and many are NOT in "communion" with The Bishop of Rome for valid and appropriate reasons. They are ALL members of the Holy Catholic Church and Rome has absolutely nothing to do with their validity.
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