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PDF versionAnthony Ruff: The accidental activist
by Jamie L Manson on Oct. 19, 2011
The last time Father Anthony Ruff, OSB, came to New York, he was visiting with an editor from First Things, a theologically and politically conservative journal founded by the late Richard John Neuhaus, six years ago.
Ruff recently returned to Manhattan to offer the first presentation sponsored by the newly formed New York City chapter of Call to Action. Since CTA groups are rarely allowed to meet on Roman Catholic property, Ruff gave the lecture in the common room of an Episcopal Church in Greenwich Village.
This radical change of scene isn't the only transformation that has marked Ruff's life in the last six years.
Fr Anthony Ruff OSBA monk of St. John's Abbey and professor of liturgy, liturgical music and Gregorian chant at St. John's University in Minnesota, Ruff accepted an invitation to join the team of the International Commission on English in the Liturgy (ICEL) in 2005.
Earlier this year, six years into his work with ICEL, Ruff suddenly resigned. He published an open letter to U.S. Catholic Bishops in America magazine explaining why he why he withdrew from all of his speaking engagements on the new Roman Missal.
"I'm sure bishops want a speaker who can put the new missal in a positive light," Ruff wrote in February of this year, "and that would require me to say things I do not believe."
Ruff joined ICEL for reasons similar to those that led him to associate with the editors of First Things. He was committed to guarding and promoting faithfulness to church tradition. Back then, he believed that the current Missal used in the United States "was a symptom of a mistake: that Vatican II had implemented these texts in a way that was too liberal and too much a sell-out to the secular world."
ICEL is a translating agency formed in 1963 by English-speaking bishops at the Second Vatican Council in response to the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy's decree calling for translations of the Missal into the vernacular. Article 22 of the constitution stated that these translations were to be "prepared and approved by territorial bodies of bishops," such as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
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But six weeks after the bishops approved the constitution, the Vatican sent out its first instruction stipulating that these translations would have to be sent to Rome and be approved by the Holy See. The bishops' memories were long enough to recall that they did not agree to this arrangement.
Assuming goodwill on the part of the Holy See, the bishops acquiesced.
"They didn't know that in future years, further instructions would give more and more power to the center," Ruff said.
Throughout his almost two-hour lecture, Ruff took pains to chronicle the history of the translation of the Missal beginning in 1963, and was careful to ensure that his portrait of its development was accurate and balanced. He read directly from a number of church documents and explained the theological implications of liturgical language.
Ruff pointed out that Rome gave ICEL a remarkable amount of freedom as it embarked on translating the Latin into English. In a 1969 document, the Vatican reminded ICEL that it was "necessary to take into account not only the message to be conveyed, but also the speaker, the audience and the style." By providing this guideline, the hierarchy was working from their own theory of how Christianity ought to relate to local cultures.
In 1969, the Vatican recognized that these translations would be somewhat loose, and that eventually translations from Latin would not be adequate. The ultimate goal was that all the texts of the Missal would be created in the original language rather than translated from the Latin.
But history did not pan out that way. By 2001, Rome's primary emphasis had shifted from respect for receiving cultures to respect for, if not idolization of, the original Latin language of the Missal.
This shift was made evident by the Vatican's 2001 establishment of an advisory committee, known as Vox Clara, to oversee ICEL. Previously, ICEL was directly supervised by Rome. Under this new arrangement, Vox Clara's power was upgraded, and ICEL's authority was significantly downgraded.
Vox Clara was a committee that met several times a year for three days at a time. ICEL was a high-functioning office staffed with full-time employees, consultants and translators. And yet, Vox Clara was suddenly entrusted with the power to override any of ICEL's work.
More than 7,000 consultants worked on various aspects of ICEL's translation of the new Missal. Every translator was appointed by invitation only -- and he was appointed by someone to whom he was ultimately obedient. Ruff himself was not appointed since, as a musician, his task was to set the new translations to melodies.
The process was highly secretive. No progress reports were ever published, and no drafts were made available to those who requested them. This was a marked departure from the protocol followed by ICEL in the 1980s and 1990s.
ICEL completed its translation of the new Missal in 2008, and the text was handed over to Vox Clara and the Vatican. Rome made more than 10,000 changes to ICEL's text, many of them unexplainable. The resulting translations from the Latin were so literal that some of the renderings in English sounded convoluted, if not confusing.
Worst of all, the Vatican's version wasn't based on the final draft submitted by ICEL.
"It was as if they pulled up the wrong file to work on. The last three years of consultation felt as if it was all for nothing," Ruff said. Even though more than 100 bishops approved ICEL's work, Rome trumped them all.
Beyond his objections as a liturgist, on a pastoral level this cumbersome wording worries Ruff.
"I offer Mass for inmates at an area prison," he told the audience. "Some of them cannot even read English." How will these men and women adapt to the changes and find meaning in this language?
What troubles Ruff most about the experience is that not one bishop, even those with close ties to Rome, seemed to have the courage to speak up.
"Our system is not set up to tell the truth. It is not possible for those doing the work to say to those in charge 'this isn't working,'" he said.
"The bishops would be critical of Rome's translations over drinks at night, but the next day we would read that they were publicly defending the new Missal as a great moment of renewal. Our problem is that our structure doesn't allow people to say what they believe for the good of the church."
Ruff said he doesn't think all of the changes in the new Missal are bad. But because the process was so cloaked in secrecy, it necessarily became tainted.
"If there had been more collaboration at the table, those who are upset or confused by the new translations might have had the opportunity to see the reasons for the changes," Ruff said. "This lack of transparency leads us to automatically assume the worst of church leadership."
Since his open letter to the bishops, many have asked Ruff whether he is "in trouble" with the hierarchy. At first, he was surprised by these questions.
"This is not exactly a hot-button issue in the way issues of sexuality are. I would hope that we could at least have a variety of opinions about translation."
He has learned, however, that this new translation is just one more symptom of a profound dysfunction in the hierarchical structure.
"It reflects deeply problematic views of the relationship between the See of Peter and local church, the relationship between the church and culture, and the relationship between tradition and the ongoing need for renewal," he said.
These are large problems that pervade the church. But it is a church that Ruff intends to engage in and be a part of for the rest of his life. His own disillusionment with the institutional church has sparked a new kind of creative vision. He now dreams of a renewed church that honors the prophetic tradition while also celebrating the beauty of tradition.
"I would love to belong to a community that was working for the transformation of unjust structures in church and society as well as offering direct outreach to the victims of oppression," he said. "But this fantasy religious community would also pray the entire office in Latin chant. So, I'm not sure I'm going to find many fellow travelers."
Here's hoping that, on this point, Ruff may stand to be pleasantly corrected.
[Jamie L. Manson received her Master of Divinity degree from Yale Divinity School where she studied Catholic theology and sexual ethics. Her columns for NCR earned her a first prize Catholic Press Association award for Best Column/Regular Commentary in 2010.]
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Did anyone offer Fr. Ruff a
Did anyone offer Fr. Ruff a membership application to Call To Action? We don't chant the Office in Latin. We do work for the transformation of unjust structures in church and society as well as offering direct outreach to victims of oppression. Take our hand, Father.
Tom Honore'
Last night, as each evening I
Last night, as each evening I am able, I sat quietly reading Compline, in Latin, and the penitential psalms, and the Magnificat, and the Benedictus, and other odd and random and beloved pages from the Monastic Diurnal, in Latin (did I say that already?), like in the ancient good old days back at Solesmes and in Regina Laudis, now in a tiny chapel, seated and kneeling among the very poor and indigent members of the community of Palomas, in Mexico, my friends and prayer community, as my old and new Benedictine buddies no longer write, this my present community, now here, right across the border, each one with books and private devotions, silently praying during our quiet hour (and more!) in chapel at the end of the day, and during the Rosary Novena earlier in the evening we now pray for a former pastor recently deceased, the mighty Padre Abel Retano, who saved my life and gave me space to read at Mass, etc.
Through this reinvigorating plunge into my originating language of prayer, Latin (did I say that?), I, in my present greatly weakened condition, "do work for the transformation of unjust structures in church and society as well as offering direct outreach to victims of oppression" and so appreciate Honore Tom, your offering a hand as here to a mighty Benedictine, The Rev. Fr. Ruff, OSB, as once again this ancient order of 1500 years steps up to save our church from ourselves.
BENEDICTINES ROCK !! Amen,
BENEDICTINES ROCK !! Amen, Charles. Your comments always inform me and your service to God always inspires me. Please keep up with your prophetic witness. Please pray for me as I do for you.
Our past Abbot Primate
Our past Abbot Primate Rembert would smile to read your opening acclamation!
If he weren't living in exile
If he weren't living in exile due to his shameful actions of stealing a half million dollars from those he was called to shepherd in order to cover up his own sexual depravity, or those countless hours he spent shuffling around abusing priests and intimidating victims!
If he weren't living in exile
If he weren't living in exile due to his shameful actions of stealing a half million dollars from those he was called to shepherd in order to cover up his own sexual depravity, or those countless hours he spent shuffling around abusing priests and intimidating victims!
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What you say, in God's good time, will be revealed as applicable to countless bishops all over the world. We're seeing just the tip of the iceberg.
But no one is praising them.
But no one is praising them. Charles Scanlon and Richard McBrien continue to praise Weakland, even after knowing all of the harm he caused.
Rome continues to reward
Rome continues to reward these corrupt bishops with advancement and encouragement to keep rowing aboard Captain Ratzinger's sinking ship of neo-Jansenist clowns and fools anxious to return to the Triumphal Church of Leo X.
Nobody anywhere is calling for archbishop Weakland's promotion to higher service in the Church. There is very big difference. So, let us stop whipping a dead horse with no particular relevance to today's continuing scandals within Benedict's Church.
Once and again Abbot Primate
Once and again Abbot Primate of the Order, he now finds no Benedictine cot upon which to rest his ancient, weary head, let alone higher service in the Church (while within this bitter pilgriming exile highly serves and guides us dispossessed monks most gloriously), yet ever will he find warming welcome within our fallen and disordered hermitage deep in this southwestern desert.
While thanking you for
While thanking you for reserving for me so undeservedly the same ecclesial title you employ for the Reverend Father Richard P. McBrien, I must firmly yet most humbly request, as your most unworthy servant, that you use proper titles for my former Abbot Primate.
oremus pro invicem.
Maybe we will the second you
Maybe we will the second you show some proper respect for Blessed Pope John Pail II and His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI? So, Charles, Dude, which is it? Will you follow your own advice or continue living as a hypocrite?
OK,SOME O.S.B.'S ROCK .....
OK,SOME O.S.B.'S ROCK ..... Your comments,"someone", about Weakland are fair and relevant. I intentionally did not say "ALL BENEDICTINES ROCK!". My comment was aimed at Charles Scanlon, a valuable NCR blogger, and other good Benedictines over the last 1,500 years.
"someone" provides no
"someone" provides no evidence for "someone's" calumnious assaults, many of which have been proven false (including the misuse of ecclesial funds), yet "someone" for their own perverse reasons, returns to them ceaselessly, as if repeating them enough might make them true.
Calumny is a sin.
and as all know who suffer to read here regularly, I am the least valuable of all!
I went to a seminary run by
I went to a seminary run by the Benedictines where I studied Latin for five years and prayed the office with the monks or with the seminarians every day. Then, as a priest, I prayed the office in Latin for years.
Did I mention Latin? It was not my prayer language. People usually pray best in the language they learned at their mother's knee.
But oddly, my second best prayers are when I pray the office in Spanish a language I know well after years with Hispanics. Something about Spanish that soars, for me at least, much more than Latin ever did.
Maybe the problem was the lousy instruction we got in Latin. Just some monks assigned the job with no language teaching skills, especially when it came to helping young men raised on a word order language to understand an inflected language. Sorry, monks, but you were lousy teachers in general. Didn't know what good teachers were until I attended a secular university.
And then I picked up the Latin office again. Since I am fluent in Spanish, the inflected language of Latin makes sense. But it is not my prayer language.
Thanks for this post Jamie. I
Thanks for this post Jamie. I would have missed the good Father's open stance if not for you. his humility and faith are very visible. and his disenchantment with powers in Rome as well. I heartily agree with his perception of the top-down hierarchical disregard of the people in the pews. joe yankech
"Assuming goodwill on the
"Assuming goodwill on the part of the Holy See . . ."
this was in our ecclesial era pre-wojo, pre-ratzo in which good will was thrown out the window along with the Holy Spirit, and the best and brightest of our theologians.
Viva Bishop Casaldáliga
ARCANE LITURGY IN WAR
ARCANE LITURGY IN WAR .......Thanks, Jamie, for another example of your uncanny ability to expose the hidden and wicked ways of the Roman clique. The pope first learned strategy when he was compelled in his late teens to serve with an anti-aircraft unit in the German Army during the dangerous days at the end of the Second World War. ........................Joseph Ratzinger appears to have learned well how to aim at a specific target and go after it relentlessly and ruthlessly. His ambitious climb up the Roman career ladder is classic. He sacrificed many former colleagues along the way, including outstanding theologians such as Karl Rahner, Hans Kung and Bernard Haring. He seems to be very adept at cutting deals with the mainly Italian curial clique that hold the key swing vote in papal elections. He was masterful at guiding the erratic and inconsistent Karol Wojtyla's efforts to replicate a Polish autocratic church structure in Rome and elsewhere. ......................Of course, the Italian curia, with their centuries of playing hardball bureaucratic politics, kept the Pole and German within their Italian bounds. The curia's principal goal was and is to win their war against the Vatican II reformers and return to the "golden pre-Vatican II days" of an absolute papal monarchy served by a hidden and unaccountable curia that pulls the worldwide strings on 5,000 bishop puppets. The goal is to return the People of God's Church within a few generations to the ecclesiastical "heaven on earth", where the lowly laity, especially women "baby machines", will once again resume their divinely ordained places as episcopal footstools. As part of this strategy, the curia will also try to lock homosexual Catholics back into their medieval closets. All this in furtherance of the Roman clique's lust for power and wealth for them and their puppet bishops..................This curial war employs a broad strategy, which includes not only a coercive organizational structure, but also an ideological "mysterious theology" and a supportive arcane liturgy, which you have so well described above. ..................There is hope, however, as described in the comment to Eugene Kennedy's excellent NCR article, "You can't go Rome again", under the comment heading, "LET'S GO BACK FURTHER", accessible by clicking on at http://ncronline.org/blogs/bulletins-human-side/you-cant-go-rome-again . .......................You should also note the excellent analysis by Rita Ferrone of the subtle way the Roman clique tweaks the new liturgical translation of as simple a word as "cup", which is once again translated by the restorationist term "chalice". Rita's comment is to be found under the excellent current Oct. 14 article on Kansas City/Finn, accessible on the dotCommonweal.org website and is well worth your time.
The curia's principal goal
The curia's principal goal was and is to win their war against the Vatican II reformers and return to the "golden pre-Vatican II days" of an absolute papal monarchy served by a hidden and unaccountable curia that pulls the worldwide strings on 5,000 bishop puppets.
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Thank you Jerry Slevin for encapsulating the germ of the Catholic Church's present worsening disease. Benedict's pathetic , pitiful, almost comic opera, attempt at being a force for restoring the Church and destroying what ails western culture. His feeble attempt's at creating his persona as the new Urban II, a warrior to slay the dragons of modernism;namely, by building a hopelessly romantic fifth column movement in Europe made up of the "elect" and the "orthodox" to counter the greatest phalanx of freedom and the exercise of human rights seen since the Enlightenment and the French and Russian revolutions. Now coupled with the most extraordinary advances of science and communications ever.
Despite our flirting with the next great worldwide depression since 1929, that
Enlightenment has spread and will continue to spread like wildfire to Asia, South America, and Africa. It cannot be stopped by some old veteran of the Wehrmacht in white and silken dresses demanding a new culture of Catholic obedience and attention to his every whim. Surrounded by clucking geese with the minds of children all too anxious to carry out his will to the letter. To think the Reign of Benedict can slay these dragons invites peals of laughter and endless derision.
The new Benedictine Age is in his own mind and the mind of the fascist neanderthals flocking to his throne to hoist him up upon his sedia gestatoria as a triumphant prophet of mankind's future. There's something wonderfully Wagnerian about this papacy. More suggestive of Oberammergau and "Grimm's Fairy Tales", than a liturgical revolution and a campaign to build a new Christian civilization built upon the ruins of pop culture,"New Age", the ever-expanding personal liberties and freedom of women and minorities, and for dealing with a culture of Me, Myself, and I.
Never a dull moment under old Benny. He missed his calling. Why be pope and be dismissed as an aging crank, when you could be performing on stage at the Festspielhaus? You might be taken a whole lot more seriously.
"I offer Mass for inmates at
"I offer Mass for inmates at an area prison," he told the audience. "Some of them cannot even read English."
So, give the Mass in Spanish, improvising as the community and the hour require, by the zeitgeist, as on Solentiname.
Even if they can't read
Even if they can't read English they can probably speak it.
check the demographic
check the demographic research of our prison system, particularly with criminalizing our enslaved immigrant population and massive imprisonment, separating families for a crime on paper
"Our system is not set up to
"Our system is not set up to tell the truth."
A truer word never spoken.
And yet we are called to bring real, substantial Good News to the Poor?
And yet we call ourselves the depositary of the fullness of Truth?
What does an objective outsider see?
Machiavelli's Prince or the Prince of Peace?
Thank you, Jamie Manson, for
Thank you, Jamie Manson, for this detailed and chronological explanation of the workings of ICEL and Vox Clara. It is very helpful in understanding what has actually transpired over the years. I graduated from high school at the close of Vatican II, and after college served for many years on our diocesan liturgical commission. In those days we loved what ICEL was doing, but I never understood what actually happened in later years until now. I would have served longer on that commission, but we were all replaced when a more conservative archbishop was assigned to our diocese in the late 80's. And of course we were all so surprised to learn of Fr Ruff's resignation. Call to Action is blessed to have him now.
ok, so, like, just toss the
ok, so, like, just toss the book and go DIVINO AFFLANTE SPIRITU
bring back the life and the love, and gather to decide then and there how do we show God's Love living among one another and how to we expand this eternal, universal, almighty, all-compassionate, patient Love to all the world, even unto those we now find repugnant?
Just toss the book, and Love
The book kills. Love lives.
Liturgical Rubric Number One (of One)
Dilige, et quod vis fac
-Augustine.
Gripe, gripe, gripe. Whine,
Gripe, gripe, gripe. Whine, whine, whine. Everybody hates me, so I think I'll eat some worms. That's all this reporter ever does. If I lived in such misery, always thinking that God had somehow lost control, I guess that I would be a negative person too. But I do believe that God is in charge and continually straightens out what He has established for our good and the good of all humanity. (Bet you thought I couldn't use inclusive language.)
Yeh, I went to the classes. It is more literal than dynamic. And it does grind against American feelings. Sort of forces us to come to the realization that something existed before this country did and in the course of history, it will still be there outlasting us. The English in use will be the same language used by every other English speaking country.
Come on now and swallow a bit of that pride. Or you can continue in your endeavor of forming your own independent catholic church and do whatever you want. And I will continue to laugh at your juvenile reports.
Dominick, forgive me, please,
Dominick, forgive me, please, yet I find this article Manson's most mature report yet, and your comments here inexplicably juvenile and disjointed and worrisome; forgive me, please, but where did you laugh?
... so much for the editorial
... so much for the editorial injunction to not attack the writer ...
Dominick, Referring to God as
Dominick,
Referring to God as "He" is using "inclusive language"? You could just say God again or S/he. I think we are all going to surprised when we se God face to face....
mt
Dominick, God has not lost
Dominick, God has not lost control, but he sees his corrupted, criminal underlings want absolute power and control. The oppressors live so anti gospel with their ostentatious lifestyle, they are heretics and chismatics. No credibility left
As a 73 year old catholic, I
As a 73 year old catholic, I am glad to have witnessed the liturgical renewal ushered by Vatican II. However, I am unhappy to learn that Vatican "authority" through its handy minion ,Vox Clara, manipulatively, secretly, and underhandedly impose the "new translation" of the mass.
I learned more than 40 years ago that liturgy (and mass is liturgy par excellence) is "people's act(s)". And yet, the laity has a zero role in this so-called liturgical "reform of reform". Total disregard for the ICEL's translations betrays lack of simple, yes, simple decency on the part of Vox Clara group. Add to well-documented reports of cover-ups of sexual abuses of clery, financial scandals, silencing of dissenters --this unwarranted liturgical imposition is one of many symptoms of a broken institutional structure--that needs to be reformed. Our church's current governance structure has outlived its usefulness.
Laypersons, I predict, will usher our church's own Spring Awakening.
thanks to "73 year old
thanks to "73 year old Catholic"
and peace and good will to All
i long to break bread in inclusive liturgy, "the work of the people" who know and are included at GOD's table ! .... Vat II liturgical reforms accomplished
this for awhile; now - reverting to the clergy's liturgy - NOT our tradition, but the practice of medieval times
Very good article. I also
Very good article. I also recommend Pray-Tell, the blog that Father Ruff originated and is now moderated by Rita Ferrone.
http://www.praytellblog.com/
"I also recommend Pray-Tell,
"I also recommend Pray-Tell, the blog that Father Ruff originated and is now moderated by Rita Ferrone."
Kristin, I strongly second your recommendation. Father Ruff's courage is so refreshing. He truly tells it like it is.
Go Benedictines!!!! Like St. Francis, they are now called upon to save the Church.
There is one definitive way
There is one definitive way to reform this Church: return to local election of Bishops as it was done for 1200 years. Not possible? Maybe yes, maybe no. The Catholic Church is the people, not the few men in red, not the Vatican.
See my new book:
Go to Amazon and find reviews of my book, A Pilgrimage Like No Other:
http://www.amazon.com/Pilgrimage-Like-No-Other/dp/1461011523/ref=sr_1_1?...
I notice he didn't wear his
I notice he didn't wear his habit. I guess he didn't want to offend CTA. Ruff runs a blog where he pretends to be impartial with commentators, but instead crucifies anyone who dares disagree with the liberal party line. He claims cover that "I don't support women's ordination" yet publishes editorials from "anonymous sources" and then deletes and edits posts that disagree. He said that his conscience prevents him from speaking on the Missal and cancelled commitments--and they is the headliner at a Missal conference that brings cash to his own school and order. Which way does he want it?
Another sniper hiding behind
Another sniper hiding behind a false name. (My apologies if "voiceofreason" is, in fact, your given name.)
no it's actually Kent Dean
no it's actually Kent Dean
Ruff runs a blog where he
Ruff runs a blog where he pretends to be impartial with commentators, but instead crucifies anyone who dares disagree with the liberal party line.
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LOL,LOL "Voice of Reason"? I like that.
Cardinal Pell, is that you again? Rush Limbaugh perhaps?
I've followed "Pray Tell" for years. Are you sure you're on the right blog?
And Ratzinger didn't wear a
And Ratzinger didn't wear a collar for decades when he was at Regensburg, so what's your point?
Dominick, why all the griping
Dominick, why all the griping and all the unjust accusations you write about Mansons articles?
She reported accurately and skillfully about Fr Anthony Ruff. The article is comprehensive, thoughtful and excellent. You attack her without foundation and you make no sense. I have read most of her NCR articles. They are well written, informative and very much mature and responsible. She has no whining or griping in her articles either. You Dominick though do whine and gripe unreasonably and inexplicably against her.
My vote's for Jamie Manson as
My vote's for Jamie Manson as future Editor in Chief to keep NCR true to her top quality and mature and professional learned Catholic tradition!
Here are some things to
Here are some things to consider from Vatican II that I think a lot of us forget about:
Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites. Sacrosanctum Concilium 36.1
Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them. Sacrosanctum Concilium 54
In accordance with the centuries-old tradition of the Latin rite, the Latin language is to be retained by clerics in the divine office. But in individual cases the ordinary has the power of granting the use of a vernacular translation to those clerics for whom the use of Latin constitutes a grave obstacle to their praying the office properly. The vernacular version, however, must be one that is drawn up according to the provision of Art. 36. Sacrosanctum Concilium 101.1
I think everyone is capable of learning at least the Ordinary in Latin. When ever I go to Mass in a foreign country, I really appreciate the Ordinary Mass parts in Latin. I can't think of anything more inclusive and multicultural than peoples of different languages and backgrounds coming together to celebrate the Eucharist and at least for a few moments be able to share a common language, not to take anything away from the Eucharist being the greatest thing that brings us into communion with one another.
so you say it is better to
so you say it is better to have things in a language no one really understands than in a language a few locals understand?
My concern is when the language of the Empire (often English) overshadows the local authentic indigenous expressions, rendering the Holy Sacrament not essentially liberating as God intends but simply another instrument of psychological, cultural and economic enslavement, with Old Glory waving in the sanctuary over the tabernacle.
So is it better to use the language of a dead Roman Empire then the present dying empire?
just go to the Spanish Mass, in the poorest neighborhood.
After all, Spanish is like, you know, living Latin.
Obviously Spanish was not the
Obviously Spanish was not the language of the empire in South America!
which is why indigenous
which is why indigenous languages should be ever used among indigenous societies; thank you "someone" for demonstrating the point.
Meanwhile in North America, our oppressed populations, illegalized, enslaved, often speak Spanish, and require now more than ever the sanctuary of our Holy Mother Church, not her rejection.
Read the wonderful Solentiname series for dialogue Mass in action, in hiding, in exile from brutal colonialist oppression, spoken freely in the true tongue of the participants, not read word for word from a dead book fashioned half a world away, but the Living Word Incarnate.
God ever bless and keep always the Reverend and wise and loving Father Ernesto Cardenal!
No I am saying everyone has
No I am saying everyone has the ability to learn a few phrases in Latin to help remind us that we are part of universal Church and that the Church is bigger than our local community. I'm not advocating the whole Mass, just the Sanctus and Angus Dei and it doesn't have to be every time.
Spanish Mass? I said that when I travel to a country where I don't speak the language it is nice to hear the Mass parts in Latin because I understand those parts. I don't see what that has to do with Spanish.
Spanish is Latin alive
Spanish is Latin alive
Anonymous on Oct. 20, 2011.
Anonymous on Oct. 20, 2011.
You stated:
"Here are some things to consider from Vatican II that I think a lot of us forget about:
Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites. Sacrosanctum Concilium 36.1
Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them. Sacrosanctum Concilium 54
In accordance with the centuries-old tradition of the Latin rite, the Latin language is to be retained by clerics in the divine office. But in individual cases the ordinary has the power of granting the use of a vernacular translation to those clerics for whom the use of Latin constitutes a grave obstacle to their praying the office properly. The vernacular version, however, must be one that is drawn up according to the provision of Art. 36. Sacrosanctum Concilium 101.1
I think everyone is capable of learning at least the Ordinary in Latin. When ever I go to Mass in a foreign country, I really appreciate the Ordinary Mass parts in Latin. I can't think of anything more inclusive and multicultural than peoples of different languages and backgrounds coming together to celebrate the Eucharist and at least for a few moments be able to share a common language, not to take anything away from the Eucharist being the greatest thing that brings us into communion with one another."
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Your comments are symtomatic of what occurs when people ONLY read what they THINK the Documents of Vatican Council II stated. It was stated that People need to be able to participate fully in the liturgy. That was why the Liturgy was to be promulgated in the Vernacular (common language of the people).
Latin is not a vernacular language. Latin is an ARCHAIC and DEAD language.
Religious orders in modern countries pray the Divine Office in the language of their native land---not in Latin.
Secondly, in this country, Canada, Australia, New Zealand---the Eastern Churches celebrate the Divine Liturgy in the English Language---not in the language of Eastern Europe, or the Middle East or Africa. They use the vernacular of the people of the land where the liturgy is occuring and they will continue to do so. I have been in several churches of the Eastern Rites in America---and they are praying in ENGLISH.
Thirdly, why should a DEAD and ARCHAIC language like Latin---be used to praise the Living God? Do you talk to God privately in Latin?
Thirdly, why should a DEAD
Thirdly, why should a DEAD and ARCHAIC language like Latin---be used to praise the Living God? Do you talk to God privately in Latin?
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Thank you for some great points. Even Cardinal Ratzinger as a young priest thought one of the reasons for the Council was to eventually phase out Latin. I'm not saying he holds that view now, but I like to think the Pope was right the first time. Vatican II's greatest unmet objective was to reach out beyond Europe to a rapidly expanding universe leaving much of Europe and its institutions behind.
The new and reformed Church should keep the Latin MUSICAL patrimony. Which I expect it will do, but for lame brains to keep quoting canon law is to miss the point entirely. The lingua franca for the time being until Hindi and Chinese have replaced it, is English. Learn to love it and to cherish it while we still have it.
Benedict XVI knows a Latin-speaking Church is something romantics are hopoing will be taken out of the mothballs created at the Council. However, in his heart of hearts, Benedict knows that effort is doomed to failure and he'll do nothing to stop it from happening.
One of the reasons why the pope has taken on the development of the Anglican Ordinariate's liturgy as his personal project. It may turn out to be his crowning achievement as pontiff. For which he will stand out in our Catholic history books for all time. Perhaps, in old age he is seeing a renaissance of his early priesthood.
It makes sense,because he sees the Ordinariate becoming the new bridge to the future, not the salvaging of a Latin Tridentine relic or the Pauline mediocrity which has disappointed hundreds of millions of Catholics. It comes to launching an entirely new Catholic liturgical culture.
That culture can succeed within an English,not a Latin environment. One destined to reconstitute the Mass and the place of the Liturgy of the Hours in church life. Yet, fostering, as Anglicanism has done, a vibrant English-Latin musical heritage. We see further evidence of this with the close cooperation now with Anglican and other Protestant musicians, e.g. the Canons of St. John Cantius' recent purchase of the entire estate of one of the most prolific modern day church composers, Anglican, Healey Willan's, entire estate of published and unpublished compositions. A truly earth-shaking event and indicative of where the Church is going liturgically. In short, making the Catholic Church once again a cultural haven and a patron for the truly beautiful in worship.
Now, it needs to regain the upper hand in a wave of new educational institutions for the poor and the elderly throughout the world. For it is through education, not papal decrees, pronouncements from the throne, and the issuing of canonical ukases, that the Church can make its influence felt worldwide.
A good argument why the "New
A good argument why the "New Mass" in the vernacular should never have been introduced.
The pre-Vatican II Roman Rite Mass was easily followed by the average lay person - and readings of the Epistle and Gospel were read in the vernacular.
A low Mass was was about 20 to 30 minutes in length not counting the sermon.
What was the problem?
Incidentally, there was plenty of vernacular in the churches in the popular hymns and extra-liturgical devotions.
It is also well to remember that the Mass is essentially an Action -- the continuation of the Sacrifice of the Cross -- and NOT a Protestant commemorative service.
The Catholic Mass has NOT a primarily didactic function -- it is a the continuation of the Sacrifice of Calvary which the participant/congregation is invited to unite their personal sacrifices with the Victim of Calvary.
Moreover, it has been questioned whether the New Mass of 1970 -- which was rejected by a large percentage of the bishop at the 1967 Roman Synod Bishops who were given a trial run of this Mass rite was indeed to intention of the Vatican II Sacrosanctam Concillium document.
In his 1947 "Mediator Dei" encyclical, Pope Pius XII anticipated the reasoning behind "New Mass" which was promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1969 and pointed out in "Mediator Dei":
108. Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas.
So varied and diverse are men's talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services.
Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual.
Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits?
On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi...
The so-called "Indult Mass" is a good first step in the right direction -- speed the day when this traditional Rite of the Roman diocese takes it rightful place as the "ordinary rite" -- and the so-called "New Mass" relegated as an "extraordinary rite"!
Excellent comments, AD105.
Excellent comments, AD105. Very well said, indeed. I also look forward to the day when we can celebrate, as the ordinary rite of the Church, the Mass that nourished saints for centuries, the Mass of St. Pius V.
AD105 on Oct. 20, 2011. You
AD105 on Oct. 20, 2011.
You stated:
"A good argument why the "New Mass" in the vernacular should never have been introduced.
The pre-Vatican II Roman Rite Mass was easily followed by the average lay person - and readings of the Epistle and Gospel were read in the vernacular.
A low Mass was was about 20 to 30 minutes in length not counting the sermon.
What was the problem?
Incidentally, there was plenty of vernacular in the churches in the popular hymns and extra-liturgical devotions.
It is also well to remember that the Mass is essentially an Action -- the continuation of the Sacrifice of the Cross -- and NOT a Protestant commemorative service.
The Catholic Mass has NOT a primarily didactic function -- it is a the continuation of the Sacrifice of Calvary which the participant/congregation is invited to unite their personal sacrifices with the Victim of Calvary.
Moreover, it has been questioned whether the New Mass of 1970 -- which was rejected by a large percentage of the bishop at the 1967 Roman Synod Bishops who were given a trial run of this Mass rite was indeed to intention of the Vatican II Sacrosanctam Concillium document.
In his 1947 "Mediator Dei" encyclical, Pope Pius XII anticipated the reasoning behind "New Mass" which was promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1969 and pointed out in "Mediator Dei":
108. Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas.
So varied and diverse are men's talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services.
Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual.
Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits?
On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi...
The so-called "Indult Mass" is a good first step in the right direction -- speed the day when this traditional Rite of the Roman diocese takes it rightful place as the "ordinary rite" -- and the so-called "New Mass" relegated as an "extraordinary rite"!"
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Jesus spoke in HIS vernacular----and it was not Latin. Latin was the language of an oppressive empire. It may have been the language of the world's commerce and power at one point in history. But it no longer is.
Why should the Western Catholic World be forced to pray to God in a language that was anathama to the Jewish people at the time of Christ?
If it wasn't for Emperor Constantine making the Christian Church the state religion---we would not be using Latin in worship at all. We are living in the 21st Century----not in the days of the Roman Empire. All of the baloney about Latin Liturgies are the dying gasps of an aging Roman Pontiff and his Curia trying to hang on to their boyhood memories.
If it weren't for Emperor
If it weren't for Emperor Constantine our bishops would have been the simple apostles and shepherds of the flock Jesus intended. Instead, the emperor turned them into imperial policy wonks and bureaucrats privileged to wear violet clavi-lined banquet dresses and other trapping of a dying imperium.
We have proof today "the spirit of Constantine" is alive and well. As evidenced by the fact today's "shepherds" would prefer to see the "spirit of Vatican II" die away. As in our first Christian emperor's own time, they hanker for bedecking themselves in get-ups illustrative of the medieval imperium Benedict is so anxious to restore.
voiceofreason makes an
voiceofreason makes an important point. Let me amplify it. The Pray Tell blog, of which Fr. Ruff is the founder and editor, is notorious for censorship. Comments from the right are deleted, censored, and censured. Anyone whose comments don't toe the liberal line is ridiculed.
How hypocritical, then, that Fr. Ruff complains about "a system that is not set up to tell the truth." Truth, in the sense of honest disagreement, is the last thing Fr. Ruff has shown himself willing to countenance.
I am writing my senior thesis
I am writing my senior thesis at a Catholic college. My topic is "Catholic Attitudes in the 1970s." My professor says I should read NCR to learn what people used to think back in the seventies. Does anyone here have any other sources? The people who blog here seem to say the same things over and over again. Do you really still pray in Latin? And why is there so much consternation about small changes in liturgy? I read the same kinds of comments in The Wanderer after Vatican II. Is it just that old people don't like change? Is that why you always seem to be insulting one another? Was that considered a Catholic value back in the seventies? It sounds scandalous to me. I'd appreciate any help you may offer. - Siri.
it's a Catholic thang; others
it's a Catholic thang; others might not understand . . .
I left all after losing all in the Sixties to spend the seventies in monasteries and a seminary and never did find a home but much turbulent storm.
now decades later I am alone in this desert with a loving Roman Catholic Church community, in Spanish, among the most poor (far too poor for those avaricious fascist Opus Dei and frisky Legionnaire boys) and destitute and apparently hopeless, yet joyful and loving.
Had I gone Spanish in the seventies (far from Opus and Marcial of course), perhaps I'd have found the permanent church home I sought and worked for. As it is, I am ever now called upon to read in church (in Spanish) and to serve, and to feel very much at home.
Must be something about Catholicism and the warrior tongue of the Saxon which simply cannot get along, but only bark bitterly . . .
and yes I really do pray in Latin as well. Anything but English!
Got the Diurnal right here at my hand. Want to hear some?
Can we pray together?
Please?
I would like to help, but I
I would like to help,
but I can share just a bit of my experience. As I was born in 52 and lost my faith when I was 15 years old, I dont't have information about this peryod. Raised in a Catholic school, born in a mixed milieu (my father belonged to a atheist family, my mother belonged to a conservative and traditional one, only half Catholic: his father was a free mason industrialist, her mother a devout woman, but only my mother and two aunts - among five brother and sisters - remained Catholics), I never knew, closely, the 1970's Catholic environment. I just had a glimpse: when I moved from the school to the highschool, I met the first two priests formed in the spirit of the Vatican II. I loved them, I used to go to their house when I began printing a school paper. Unfortunately, they moved, and I was left without guidance.
My parish priest was an obese, sanguine and irascible priest, who was always shouting from the pulpit and expelling or reprehending people. He was quite old and from the old school: he "ran" through the mass - in Latin, of course - to end it quickly. Confession with him was a torment: I could not even speak, because, to hasten it, he just made a few questions, always the same, like he was reciting a grocery shopping list. When my faith crisis came I had no one to talk: at home, speaking about religion or politics was not allowed. So, I was on my own.
As I alays read a lot, in my teens I knew many things about history and about Church's history. I knew about, for instance, the Borgia popes, and when I began to read about the dogmas and I stumbled on popes' infalibillity, I could not keep asking myself: but how is it possible?! Without answers, one sunday I announced to my mother I would not go to mass anymore. I've seen by her expression that I was hurting her, but she said nothing. Because I was not a child and she did respect my decision.
The following years were filled with pain. I was dignosed a chronic depression and discovered that I would have to live, for ever, with this kind of suffering. Meanwhile I had to fight to take care of myself and to keep my job. Around my 30s, I reached an unbereable pick of digust with life and misery. I began to pray at night: "Lord, please, I'll accept it all, but give me back my faith". During some years, I kept repeating the some words. One night - don't ask me why, or how -, my prayer was answered: I FELT the faith, as I was feeling again an amputated organ.
My mother had died when I was 21. But I think it was her example - her kindness, her generosity and true afection towards the humble and the poor, her hability to face ilness and a sort of calvary (she died of cancer) - that kept me asking for faith. And also those two young priests that, in my early teens, had taught me the importance of justice.
I wish I could help more... Just a prayer: may your thesis help to turn you into a healer. The world - and the Church - is in such a short supply of healers...
Thanks, all, for the spirited
Thanks, all, for the spirited discussion. A couple responses:
1- I went back and forth about whether to wear habit - I usually do when presenting - but decided it might be an obstacle with CTA so I didn't.
2- I stated that I would not promote the missal publicly in dioceses. I did not say that I would never speak about the missal again in public.
3- I'm sure any intelligent NCR reader already knows this but I'll say it anyway. Anyone who looks will see that Pray Tell commenters have a wide variety of opinions, including conservative ones. Our policy is to delete what is nasty or off-topic or egregiously uninformed. Obviously some commenters don't know the difference, and think they were "censored" because of their ultraconservative/traditionalist opinions. They regularly complain at many websites about our "censorship." To the best of my (and our) good judgment, comments were deleted for nastiness and misinformation, not for ideological reasons.
awr
Yes, thank you for providing
Yes, thank you for providing such a clear example of your dismissiveness, Fr. Ruff. Those who agree with you are intelligent; those with whom you've disagreed are egregiously uninformed.
Whether heavy-handed censorship is the way to run a blog is certainly an open question. What makes it interesting and germaine here is the remarkable contrast between the two ways of handling dissent: the manner advocated and the manner practiced.
If you haven't the courage
If you haven't the courage and conviction to print your name, your credibility is null.
Quite to the contrary, Father
Quite to the contrary, Father Ruff. Your pals Jeremy Stevens, Chris Grady, and Bill DeHaas can sling the vilest insults, call ordained churchmen idiots and evil, and drag people's name through the mud, cackling and high-fiving each other all the while. You love it, so the comments stand. Anyone from the other side with a tenth of the bitingness to their comments -- when it is directed at *your* idols and sacred cows -- is banned in short order. If you are not being flat-out dishonest about your moderation, then the best that can be said is that you are blinded by your politics and agenda.
One such example: Any mention
One such example: Any mention of sexual abuse, however off topic, is allowed to stand, whether true or not. Attacking conservative bishops is par for the course--no matter how untrue or slanderous. One writer brought up examples of sexual abuse and cover up by those in his own monastery, and the post disappeared in minutes. It was brought up again--and magically disappeared again.
is this the post you refer
is this the post you refer to, your own:
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If he weren't living in exile
Submitted by someone (not verified) on Oct. 21, 2011.
If he weren't living in exile due to his shameful actions of stealing a half million dollars from those he was called to shepherd in order to cover up his own sexual depravity, or those countless hours he spent shuffling around abusing priests and intimidating victims!
==================================================
why, someone, this clearly falls under the heading "egregiously misinformed" and is kindly, even charitably, characterized as such, as it is a blatant lie.
If it isn't true that
If it isn't true that Weakland lied when he admitted to all of that. I'm sorry, Charles, dude, but that is the truth. Weakland is an admitted sodomite and grand larcenist. You didn't know that because NCR glossed over that and you only think what NCR wants you to think. You continue to praise Weakland because McBrien for some reason says he is a good bishop, despite all he did to his own victims and other victims in his diocese.
And on Praytell Ruff has consistently deleted any reference to sexual abuse by monks of Collegeville--even cases proven to be true.
well, for one, follow the
well, for one, follow the money (as we heard in the days of Watergate), which was not pilfered church funds as you appear to imply
and please read for your Advent lectio divina "A Pilgrim in a Pilgrim Church: Memoirs of a Catholic Archbishop"
which you may find most revealing.
see also Paul Wilkes's The Education of an Archbishop: Travels with Rembert Weakland
and, of course,
Unfailing Patience and Sound Teaching: Reflections on Episcopal Ministry in Honor of Rembert G. Weakland, O.S.B
Please cite where and when the Reverend Father Richard P. McBrien "for some reason says he is a good bishop." I suppose I could search this here but such searches are clumsy for me and you appear to present certain knowledge of such even without specific reference.
So you saying the Reverend Father Ruff declines to discuss matters irrelevant upon another blogsite when troll attempt to inject their calumnious diversions? Even here we read as point three of our NCR comment code: "Keep to the point. Deliberate digressions don't aid the discussion." and indeed it is increasingly difficult to discern how this present conversation, growingly shadowed gossip for lack of reference, aids our discussion of the translation at hand, although our past Abbot Primate served gloriously as a recognized master of all things Liturgical, a field now much fallen, to this present sorry state of imposing dead and deadly Mass books upon the suffering anglo populations. Good luck with all of that, and come to the Spanish Mass in the poorest neighborhood, far from Opus, far from Legion . . .
Thank you, Father Ruff, DEO
Thank you, Father Ruff, DEO GRATIAS, for your learned and careful comments remarkably here as well as in the article, and I believe the other responses to this kind comment indicate the reason for your point number three. If these acerbic and pointless comments are yet mild enough to be posted, how very "nasty or off-topic or egregiously uninformed" those we have not seen must have been!
It does my heart great healing to communicate with a member of the Order of Saint Benedict.
and Again I say, Deo Gratias.
So, to be authentic and
So, to be authentic and genuine, a man who normally wears a habit to prayer, to teach, and on the road giving talks takes it off as not to offend a fringe group? Wow. Who is being true to himself here?
Father Anthony, you know very
Father Anthony, you know very well how much I've appreciated the scope of your good work; the big book, the ICEL setting, the chant instructives, etc.
However, I have to seriously contend with your assertion that the management of your blog is even-handed and tempered towards all. You know very well that ad hominem vitriol directed towards anyone, constructionist or deconstructionist alike, adherent or dissident, is tolerated and left unmoderated by your staff. And a great amount of ad hominem never even addresses the topic of discussion, just the commentator's personhood. In one recent exchange, a fairly benign one at that, you assured personally that one such episode would be reviewed. Despite the niceties between us personally, the situation remains unmitigated to this moment.
So, it behooves us all to actually consider whether someone telling us we have a splinter in our eye to not just defer back to the plank in that someone's own eye, but to consider whether we are, in fact, ill-sighted. We cannot throw the gauntlet towards the establishment of our Church of dishonesty and malpractice, if we fail to recognize that we practice them ourselves in our own joints, myself included.
Are we going to row together, or argue among ourselves about how and where to row all the time?
Thank you for calling out
Thank you for calling out hypocrisy and "speaking truth to power" as the libs say.
Charles, thanks for your
Charles, thanks for your comments. If I didn't moderate comments you flagged, tell me again and I'll look at it - I don't keep up perfectly with all my too many activities!
Pray Tell doesn't claim to be neutral or without any editorial bias. We're a PRIVATE enterpries, and no one has to read us. We have complete freedom to set and to change our mission and editorial policies, as all sorts of publications do. The magisterium of the RC church, on the other hand, is the only magisterium we have, and there's no other Roman Catholic Church for us to go to. The standards are different. I think it's appropriate for any progressive publications to critique the Church they love and to call for reforms to improve the church, and I don't think this implies that the publication has to be neutral or middle of the road or completely moderate on all questions.
We try to be fair at Pray Tell about eliminating nasty comments from any direction. I'm sure I don't get it right and my daily quick judgments aren't always correct. I'll keep trying to promote a conversation with many voices at PTB. In fact most of the comments are from a "conservative" position on most days.
I'm flattered that "conservatives" take Pray Tell so seriously, and so badly want it to be more representative of their opinions. By comparison, I don't see progressive voices bombarding New Liturgical Movement or Chant Cafe or WDTPRS demanding that it give equal treatment to pop music or liberal views. It's an interesting dynamic.
As for some of the other comments in this thread (not from you), I'm pretty sure it's from people who are still hurt that Pray Tell had to ban them for being well-informed but nasty, or polite but ill-informed, or both ill-informed and nasty. Frankly, I don't see constructive conversation happening with them.
I appreciate your kind words and your input, Charles.
Pax,
Fr. Anthony, osb
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