The Independent News Source
NCR on Kindle - NCR classifieds - YouTube - Twitter - Facebook - Email Alerts - RSS
Printer-friendly version
PDF versionIrish prime minister challenges the Vatican -- and us
by Thomas P. Doyle on Jul. 21, 2011
"Nor is it an industrial-school or Magdalene Ireland where the swish of a soutane smothered conscience and humanity and the swing of a thurible ruled the Irish Catholic world. This is the Republic of Ireland 2011. A Republic of laws, of rights and responsibilities…of proper civic order…where the delinquency and arrogance of a particular version…of a particular kind of morality…will no longer be tolerated or ignored."
"I am making absolutely clear, that when it comes to the protection of the children of this state, the standards of conduct which the church deems appropriate to itself, cannot and will not be applied to the workings of democracy and civil society in this republic.
Enda Kenny, the Taoiseach, or prime minister, of Ireland, addressed the Irish Parliament about a judicial report released last week on how the Cloyne diocese responded to the clergy sex abuse crisis. That report found that the church's own guidelines were "not fully or consistently implemented" in the diocese as recently as 2008. It also accused the Vatican of being "entirely unhelpful" in the crisis, charging in fact that the Vatican "effectively gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore [those] procedures."
Kenny told the Parliament "the Cloyne Report excavates the dysfunction, disconnection, elitism … the narcissism that dominate the culture of the Vatican to this day."
These or similar sentiments have been repeated time and time again by critics of the Vatican's consistently inadequate response to the clergy sexual abuse nightmare over the past two decades.
What is utterly remarkable and undoubtedly an historic bombshell is the fact that they were spoken by the Prime Minister of Ireland before the Irish Parliament. Read the full text.
These were not the words of just any head of government. These words began an incredibly direct, realistic and challenging address by the head of the government of Ireland, long considered to be the most Catholic country on the planet. They are the words of a man who has risen far above politics and above the mute deference to the hierarchy of the Catholic church to speak for the victims of sexual abuse by clergy, for their mothers and fathers and for the countless others who have been betrayed by the church to which they have given unconditional trust and obedience.
This speech is historic for many reasons one of which is the fact that a senior political figure, a government leader, has taken the risk of speaking directly and bluntly about a critical problem that plagues many other countries. In no other country has an elected or appointed leader by-passed the often-hypocritical subtleties of political discourse to stand tall in support of not just any class of vulnerable, abused and the rejected persons, but the victims of the Roman Catholic church, which in Ireland is without question the largest, most powerful and most deeply entrenched pillar of society.
The Cloyne Report has moved beyond the stark exposure of decades of abuse and cover-up as did the Ryan and Murphy reports and indeed the several grand jury reports in the United States. It clearly named the Vatican's response as "unhelpful." The Taoiseach went even further and completely rejected the Vatican's actions and attitude, expressing the Irish peoples' "abhorrence of same."
Subscribe to NCR
Want to read more about important issues in the life of the Church? A subscription to NCR will keep you up to date and informed.
These are strong words but within the context of what prompted them, they are entirely justified. The report also dissolved the erroneous appeal to a "pastoral approach" as a substitute for treating a crime as a crime and not simply as a sin that can be absolved and forgotten along with the devastating impact of the sin on the victims.
The third explosive but realistic aspect of the report was the explicit acknowledgement that the bishops could not be relied upon to follow through with their own guidelines much less Irish law and therefore clear, effective and enforced measures must be taken to see that children are protected whether the Church likes it or not.
The opening words, quoted above, point to a cause of this overall problem that hits right at the heart of the matter: the profound difference and distance between the heavily narcissistic clerical culture especially at the level of the Vatican, and the abhorrence in the real world of the Irish society and of any civilized society, of the rape and ruination of innocent children by anyone much less the most trusted members of society.
The Vatican and various elements of the hierarchy have flooded the Catholic world with countless words, all very carefully nuanced and wordsmithed, to express their regret and to their promise to change. Mr. Kenny no doubt was as fed up with the meaninglessness of words without relevant action as the people of Ireland and every other country plagued by clergy abuse. He by-passed the seemingly endless and often convoluted rhetoric of the Vatican by getting right to the heart of the matter, the culture of arrogant neglect of children and some of key underlying causes. One target is clericalism, the virus that continues to corrupt the church to the point that the People of God are buried in anachronistic monarchism.
This groundbreaking address buries the destructive myth that the institutional Catholic church with its monarchical governing structure is some sort of superior or exalted political entity with self-created rights to subvert the civic order of any society that calls it to accountability for the behavior of its privileged class.
Charlie Flanagan, chairman of Fine Gael, the single largest party in Ireland and lead party in the ruling coalition, framed this in a stark and eye-opening way in his call for the expulsion of the Papal Nuncio: "If any foreign government conspired with Irish citizens to break the law here, their ambassadors would be expelled."
The Taoiseach repeated this sentiment by reminding the Irish lawmakers and indeed everyone that Ireland is not Rome.
This is much more than a stirring address to the Irish parliament. It is the voice of a long awaited and sorely needed liberation from the chains of a clericalist control that sacrificed the very ones Jesus spoke out so passionately in defense of. This liberation is essential not only in Ireland but in any state or country where the Catholic church hopes to regain its relevance not as a gilded institution but as a Christian way of life. One can only hope that this momentous breakthrough and long-awaited challenge will be taken up in every other country where children have been violated by the Catholic clergy or religious.
The only fitting conclusion is with Mr. Kenny's own words:
Not purely, or simply or otherwise. CHILDREN … FIRST.
Mr. Kenny, a Catholic, stood
Mr. Kenny, a Catholic, stood for all the faithful who are accusing the Vatican of having a clear agenda to put the back-gear and return to the imperial attitudes of the Middle-Ages. With his powerful words, he showed what is having a moral standard. And brought to light the dubious ways followed by JPII and BXVI. New evangelization? What a joke! Do you know, for instance, what is happening in Spain, the fatherland of Opus Dei? The church, one of the most conservative in the world, is registering all the proprieties, including cemeteries, long abandoned houses and dessacrated churches - some of them build by the people, and used by the people -, recourring to a loophole in the law. Do you know the credibility of the church in Spain, also a Catholic country, revealed by a recent poll: is bellow that of the multinational corporations. Thus not to speak about the countries like Austria, Holland and Germany, where recently exploded huge scandals of sex abuse. Who will evangelize the evangelists, in such a need of a change of heart?!
I would like to see Ireland
I would like to see Ireland send the Papal Nuncio home in protest.
Thank you!!! I don't think
Thank you!!!
I don't think people realize how incredibly important it is that this has come from the government of IRELAND. Ireland!!! It could touch off similar statements in other countries most closely aligned with the Vatican -- Poland, Spain... what about Italy?
We live in interesting times.
--Andy Jo--
Tell the Taoiseach your
Tell the Taoiseach your opinion of his words
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Your_Comments/
Every democratically elected politician is interested in responses to daring initiatives. Why? Because they can be voted out.
This is not an online petition - it's sensus fidelium.
Sure, but don't hold your
Sure, but don't hold your breath. And copy-cat complaints and challenges would be only that, pure politics.
Thank you SO very much, Tom
Thank you SO very much, Tom Doyle. Your strength, your power, your integrity, your truthfulness, your absolute bull-dog refusal to accept ANY equivocation at all regarding this issue feeds my soul and increases my shaky sense of hope about the future of this Church of ours. If I ever saw a human being in whom the presence of the Spirit of God was powerfully in charge, you are that person. I have no words to express the fullness of my gratitude to God for your presence and action in our Church and world today.
Thomas P. Doyle, the Irish
Thomas P. Doyle, the Irish Prime Minister, and the people of Ireland make me SO proud to be an Irish-American. Now, if only the United States had the political and religious cojones that these people have shown, the Catholic Church in America could be reformed. It is time for all Christians throughout the world to stand up and reform this church which its own leaders refuse to do! In the name of Jesus, for all things holy, for common decency, and for the LAW, let the clean-up begin with the ouster of all clergy who had anything to so with the clerical sexual abuse or with the cover-up of that abuse. This church cleaning applies to all those directly involved or to those who even give the appearance of being involved. Time to overturn those tables and remove the rabble!
Ray Bordine, thank you for
Ray Bordine, thank you for expressing so well what so many other people and I feel deep in our hearts.
Another ray of sunshine!
Another ray of sunshine! Badly needed.
I want to reiterate
I want to reiterate everything J.H. said here. May God give you the strength to "fight the good fight" and may God shower his blessings upon you. Keep up the good work. You are not alone, though you may often feel like it. There are many of us who support you and are are wandering in the desert trying to figure out how we can make a difference.
What good are you to anyone
What good are you to anyone let alone your church wandering in the desert (metaphorically speaking of course) get out and do something about it as we abuse victims had to though it took weary decades and a sad toll on most of us but we're still here and fighting the good fight and the church is no longer our priority but our own survival.
Along with the Good Tom don't
Along with the Good Tom don't forget Sister Maureen Turlish. It baffles me how they can remain within this corrupt organisation. Such good people!
I applaud the Irish
I applaud the Irish Government for having the courage to speak out clearly and strongly. Expulsion of the Papal Nuncio just might shock the Vatican into effective action.
As indicated in the article, child sexual abuse by clergy is almost endemic in some supposedly Catholic countries.
Doubtless there are many factors which contribute to this crime, but clericalism is a large one.
Clericalism must be attacked and this can only happen if the way that men are trained for the priesthood is radically changed.
Their academic studies should be performed in secular universities, not an all male environment.
Secondly, there should be much more pastoral training in parishes, where they will be exposed to the reality of life as a priest. I think these measures would be in alignment with the importance of human formation stressed in Pastores dabo Vobis.
Finally... Irish Prime
Finally...
Irish Prime Minister Edna Kenny deserves a lot of credit.
In Ireland, the Catholic church had great power, and abused power and children at the same time. The Catholic church demonstrated a consistent, organized approach to concealing rampant child sex abuse and protecting their pedophile priests. They practice organized crime, where the crime is child rape.
Now the Irish government will fight the pedophile protectors, and hopefully, the rest of the world will follow.
Dont forget the very
Dont forget the very profitable "Laundries" that used slave labor of imprisoned woman to grow the wealth of the Church. The Light is shinning bright on all things of Darkness that must be acknowledged and healed for the return of Jesus. These are interesting times we are living in, and we see everyday who really are the followers of the Lamb, and who follow the Goat.
I have been involved in
I have been involved in exposing and in investigating these cases for sometime now, with two Catholic and one Eastern Orthodox group. In every case, there were individuals who know about the situations,but did nothing,even though they could have done so,without jeopardizing their positions.
If people knew the true state
If people knew the true state of affairs in Ireland, They would be very critical of Kenny, Victims are not only fighting the church but they are fighting the government as well, And does it take a decent man 36 years to speak out ???????????????
Throwing Down the Gauntlet Fr
Throwing Down the Gauntlet
Fr Doyle missed the line just before the Taoiseach's conclusion:
"Cardinal Josef Ratzinger said, 'Standards of conduct appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church.'"
With his conclusion, as throughout his statement, Mr Enda threatens the Church with a resurgent supremacy of the Irish Republic.
Will the Taoiseach and his Government insist on a new Veto over Episcopal and other ecclesiastical appointments and titles?
Will the Taoiseach and his Government insist on the return to Ireland of those believed to be responsible for this conduct and situation?
Will the Taoiseach and this Government pursue these offenses in extra-national courts of Justice within the European Community? the United Nations?
Good luck and Godspeed!
Fr Doyle missed the line just
Fr Doyle missed the line just before the Taoiseach's conclusion:
"Cardinal Josef Ratzinger said, 'Standards of conduct appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church.'"
This line was taken out of context. What Ratzinger was saying was that the Church is not a democracy, something we all know, and is not run like one. There was no incitement to disobey the laws of the state; he was talking about internal church matters.
Baloney! Look at
Baloney! Look at Ratzinger's/Benedict's careers! Yes, he's a churchman, but those cases in which John Paul II and he and any other bishop or priest participated in the cover-up, continue to participate in the cover-up, were not just church matters. Anything covered by civil law is in no way just a church matter. That was an intrinsic part of the cover-up mentality. It's only sin! Let's take care of that with confession and hidden files! Take off the blinders. You are justifying ignoring sin and crime just as much as John Paul II did and Ratzinger/Benedict continues to do!
The pope needs to be reminded
The pope needs to be reminded he's not a monarch, an emperor, or a dictator either, but he sure the hell acts like one. There is NOTHING about his papacy which suggests it has any justification in holy scripture or sacred tradition.
Please calm down and check
Please calm down and check your blood pressure, both of you. I don't disagree with you. What I am saying is that the line quoted by the Taoiseach is taken out of context. If you are going to castigate Ratzinger/Benedict, fine; he often deserves it, but at least quote the man accurately and not out of context.
"Cardinal Josef Ratzinger
"Cardinal Josef Ratzinger said, 'Standards of conduct appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church.'"
I agree with Cardinal Ratzinger. The Church follow ecclesistical law. Hence, those civil rules "cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church." Would they want the reverse to be true? Is it not true that the standards of morality of the Church are not imposable "purely and simply" to democratic governments? The Church says no to abortion, to homosexuality, to artificial contraception, to mercy killing but civil governments do as they will. What the Pope meant was that a civil legislation does not automatically apply to ecclesiastic law thereby modifying, reversing, or negating the latter.
What they can do is sue these priests or even bishops or even the Pope and let their civil law and rules apply. Let their civil courts declare whether there is the quantum of evidence required to convict.
I am not proud of these priests. They are a disgrace to the Church. But let us not treat the Church as if the sin of the priests is the the sin of the Church. We are the Church. Bring these priests to court and let the wheels of justice roll.
What part of the need for all
What part of the need for all Catholics, clergy and laity alike, to obey civil law does the pope and his Irish bishops NOT understand? It's clear Ireland needs a new national church, freed from Rome, and the pope himself with his aloof, arrogant, and dismissive attitude has made the perfect case for it.
Natz, the weakness in your
Natz, the weakness in your argument here is that the Church in its arrogance and contempt thinks it's above the law. How many cases have you heard of bishops, priests or cardinals being hauled before a civil court ... exactly my point... but that is changing now ... Sean Fortune in Ireland committed suicide (which some say on advice from his bishop) the USA in some states are no longer being tolerant because of the frequency of secrecy, avoicance and covering up. I do believe in Australia a subpoena is in the throes of being served on a cardinal. Oh, happy days! Let's reduce them to human stature.
"What is utterly remarkable
"What is utterly remarkable and undoubtedly an historic bombshell is the fact that they were spoken by the Prime Minister of Ireland before the Irish Parliament."
THE PEOPLE OF GOD NO LONGER BELIEVE ANYTHING COMING OUT OF ROME! WE'RE ANGRY! GET IT!!!!!!!
Mr. Prime Minister: Please drop one more bombshell. Please BREAK DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS with the Holy See; enough is enough.
I support this. Send the
I support this. Send the Papal Nuncio flying back to Rome and keep him there. Rome has the stupid audacity to think it rules the world---and with Bishops like B16 they really believe they do!!! How totally pathetic! Let's have all governments end diplomatic relations with any Church-related group! Keep separation of Church and State!
"If any foreign government
"If any foreign government conspired with Irish citizens to break the law here, their ambassadors would be expelled."
I wonder if this is what it will take to begin to have actual change from the Vatican. I hope Kenny is successful with his challenge of the Vatican:" In no other country has an elected or appointed leader by-passed the often-hypocritical subtleties of political discourse to stand tall in support of not just any class of vulnerable, abused and the rejected persons, but the victims of the Roman Catholic church"
It should be interesting what "countless words, all very carefully nuanced and wordsmithed" will come out of the Vatican in response.......I know....maybe they will (sincerely) recite the new Confetior!!! ;)
Cheers,
Javier, the ambassador in
Javier, the ambassador in this particular instance took up his post in February 2008.
It's a fair process only if it follows up predecessors one would think, either way, their loyalty would have to be to the country they represented even at the cost of innocent children anywhere in the world.
These men have had to relinquish their own identities, and what decent country would expect that, especially being signatory to various Human Rights conventions.
Allow me to readdress a
Allow me to readdress a comment I posted in Mr. John Allen Jr. blog, always so eager to show the Vatican’s sunny side. For him, the abuse scandals, the wonderful faith of the defenders of the Legionaries of Christ, the hurried beatification of JPII – just in time to prevent his historical judgment because of his crass bad choices – and of his ideological and theological talking cricket, Ratzinger -, the obnoxious canonization of Monsignor Escrivá – one of the most intimate collaborators of one of the biggest fascist and murderous dictators, general Francisco Franco -, the calculated choice of money and the hiding of the results of the preeminence of “sexual morality” over the Gospel, the mass canonization, by Benedict XVI, of the “martyrs” of the Spanish War, forgetting that many more thousands were victims of mass killings, children kidnappings, the exile of entire families, etc. I would like very much to know why, who bought his way to “nobility” thanks to the favors of a dictator, can be a saint? Can you imagine St. Francis getting his sainthood after begging to be a count? All of this is a part of JPII/BXVI heritage. The leit-motiv: money and sex. Or, if you prefer, sex and money.
Dear Sir,
I know you like very much to spread good news. And I think I have got some. 1. Last year, there was an official investigation in Italy about some suspicious transfers of dozens of millions in the Bank of Vatican, but the case was solved and closed (although, with the recommendation that more transparency was needed; after all, the Opus Dei banker can rely on the support of “virtuous” Mr. Berlusconi -- that, I fear, won’t last much more). 2. I thought I knew everything about bad Popes, including those that Dante put in the inner circles of “Hell”; but I was wrong: I just found one much, much worse, what proves that in Rome things are after all improving in the last centuries.
This is, really, my favorite bad one:
Pope Stephen (VI) VII (896-7). Date of birth unknown; died about August, 897. Stephen was a Roman, and the son of John, a priest. He had been consecrated Bishop of Anagni, possibly against his will, by Formosus, and became pope about May, 896. Whether induced by evil passion or perhaps, more probably, compelled by the Emperor Lambert and his mother Ageltruda, he caused the body of Formosus to be exhumed, and in January, 897, to be placed before an unwilling synod of the Roman clergy. A deacon was appointed to answer for the deceased pontiff, who was condemned for performing the functions of a bishop when he had been deposed and for passing from the See of Porto to that of Rome. The corpse was then stripped of its sacred vestments, deprived of two fingers of its right hand, clad in the garb of a layman, and ultimately thrown into the Tiber. Fortunately it was not granted to Stephen to have time to do much else besides this atrocious deed. Before he was put to death by strangulation, he forced several of those who had been ordained by Formosus to resign their offices and he granted a few privileges to churches. (Catholic Encyclopedia)
After this, I can give a big sigh: after all, Father Maciel and Monsignor Escrivá are really true saints!
Well, at least there was a
Well, at least there was a synod in Pope Stephen's time and his personal corruption could and was eventually remedied. Today, the criminality of the papacy has a more respectable and more appealing veneer to it. A covering of saccharin,pious bilge with the added perfume given off by the incense wafting from archaic liturgies.
All this designed to mask the continuing conspiracy of secrecy, centralized and carefully orchestrated repression of Benedict's critics--principally bishops and priests--and the slow, but certain fouling of the fresh air Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI hoped the great Council of 1962 would provide to purify the Church and thrust it towards modernity and it into the 21st century.
Benedict's steering of Peter's barque back to the high middle ages is being chipped away by the world's media determined to expose this massive fraud to impose a protective armor over widespread pontifical venality and incompetence.
Doyle's essay is both
Doyle's essay is both flawless in its reasoning,it is also remarkably civil. This man has suffered personally and professionally for "speaking to truth to power". He has as much right as anyone to take no prisoners in his writing. But instead he has chosen to defend those who have been abused and forgotten by this church. God bless you and keep you, Tom Doyle.
How can you possibly publish
How can you possibly publish an article such as this while ignoring that this attack on "clericalism" has reached its logical end in the passage of a bill in the Irish Parliament which breaks the seal of the Confessional!?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/irish-priests-must-break-seal-of-confes...
Surely all Catholics can join together in opposing this offensive and oppressive legislation?
Dear Mark, (+) In nomine
Dear Mark,
(+) In nomine Patre, et Fillio et Spiritus Sanctus, amen.
Thank you for your contribution. Under normal circumstances, and with no clouds on the horizon, I would be the first to affirm the sanctity, and hence the "Seal" of the Confessional. However, . . . ever since Constantine, things have never been fully "normal" with this Sacrament.
Whether one likes to face it or not, Constantine changed forever the nature of this sacred Sacrament. And this has affected both East and West alike, the Latins more than the Greeks. Here I run the risk of reducing to a few broad brush-strokes, an extraordinarily complex and murky time in Church history. And I expect in advance to be challenged for it. However, if it quacks like a duck and swims like a duck and waddles like a duck . . .
What few wish to admit is that Constantine extracted an extraordinarily high price for "peace" with the Church. With the Sacrament of Confession, (1) he first converted the idea of confessing to an individual priest/confessor to that of confessing to the institution of clergy as a whole - which was merely represented by the priest/confessor in front of the penitent, and (2) he then converted the holy sacrament of Orders into a vast, intelligence-gathering network in the service of the state, courtesy of the Confessional - pursuant to the "Symphonic Harmony" compact between Church and State, later perfected by Emperor Theodosius.
After 476 in the Latin West, with the fall of the civil state, holy Orders became the sole effective governance institution for the Latins, and with this state of affairs, every Roman Bishop as a civil administrator since then has displayed an extraordinarily accurate knowledge of what transpired in the Confessional when only the priest was present, should he have deemed this knowledge necessary. This was as a direct consequence of a local, diocesan "ad limina" practice to the Bishop by his priests pursuant to #1 above.
Sadly (and with all my heart I would wish it otherwise), the "Seal of the Confessional" is little more than pious teaching - technically correct according to Canon Law, but observed more in the breach than the observance. Yet having said this, I truly applaud those faithful priests who truly observe this "Seal" - as it was practiced pre-Constantine, and at the same time "discern" that matters such as pedophilia, other forms of child-abuse, murder and the like *should* (perhaps that would be better phrased as "must") not be 'protected' by this Confessional "Seal".
Tragically, we should not need the State, in this case the Taoiseach and thus the Irish Parliament to instruct Holy Mother Church in the nuances and niceties of Sacramental practice. [In this case, Maynooth may have done its job too well.] For all who have received the Holy Spirit grace of Holy Orders, this *should* be second nature. This problem should never have got this far. And demands for recompense be misinterpreted as anti-clericalism.
Having to frogmarch the clergy step by painful step to put into practice the Confeitor and DO, not just say: "Mea magna Culpa . . ." - and be made to put right that should never have been done in the first place, is sometimes too painful to watch. Yet until this is done - and carried forward to its satisfactory conclusion, the entire Sacrament of Holy Orders remains under a cloud, and runs the danger of losing its legitimacy altogether if insufficient and credible action in restitution is not forthcoming.
Pax Vobiscum.
Dear Pax, It's, "In nomine
Dear Pax,
It's, "In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen."
And nn need for the "+". Even bishops should quit asserting themselves as royals with that "higher-than-thou" nonsense.
But this is an English-speaking country, so what's all that archaic, meaningless Latin all about? That's hocus-pocus, that's not spirituality, not genuine religion.
If you have to quote or
If you have to quote or correct people, please do so correctly, spellings and all, especially in a foreign language. It's "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti...", all genetive cases if you have heard of them. Otherwise you'll be like the guy criticising another guy for his mote in the eye, but he had a beam in his own eye. Keep in mind these politicians are all the same too: throwing rocks at other houses, but they have glass houses, all for the sake of impressing and sensationalizing the voters who voted them into office and those who will vote them out of office eventually for being so impressionistic and sensational.
The Seal needs to be looked
The Seal needs to be looked at. It is not scriptural. It is traditional, for a specific purpose. What is scriptural, however, is that the vulnerable should be protected. What is also clear is that the Seal has been used to gain absolution without the logical consequences. As such, perhaps it is a privilege (not a right) that might be subject to certain limits.
I take it you are ready to
I take it you are ready to surrender this right to the state? You see, the sacramental seal is not a right of the clergy, it is a right of the penitent. You and I as penitents have the right, under Canon Law, and in most civilized nations, under civil law, to have our privacy guaranteed when we enter the confessional.
This right guarantees that priests may not reveal what they have learned in confession to anyone. They may not gossip about it to other priests, may not run to the authorities, may not tell the spouse of the penitent, may not use this knowledge to affect how they interact with the penitent outside the confessional, may not even discuss what they learned inside the confessional with the penitent after he or she leaves.
The absence of this guarantee will lead to an end of the practice of auricular confession. It will benefit no one. As it is, the one power the priest does have is to encourage the penitent, if he or she confesses serious crime, for example, to turn him or herself in. This person may or may not do this, but at least the priest-confessor has the opportunity.
But, let us assume for a moment that the seal is no longer sacrosanct in law, does anyone really believe for one moment that a person guilty of serious crime will go to confession and reveal that crime, knowing that the priest could, or God forbid, is bound, to reveal what he has learned to authorities? Of course not. Crimes will not be revealed in confession, the priest will not have anything to report, and how does that help society?
And, suppose that a third party reveals criminal behavior by another to the priest-confessor? What should the priest do? Does he have the obligation to tell what he has learned, even though it may be entirely false? Does he now have the obligation to investigate before he informs? Does he now have the obligation to reveal information that may lead to the sin of detraction and does he open himself up to lawsuits for defamation and slander?
There is far more to consider in this than simply protection of the vulnerable. There are certain rights and protections that must not be sacrificed on the altar of "protection of the vulnerable". Every reasonable effort should be made to protect our children, but in this emotion-driven debate, we often forget reason and logic. We must not. You may be willing to surrender your right to privacy via the seal of confession, but I am not.
Finally, as any Catholic should know, simply because a teaching is not in Scripture does not mean it is not valid. The Roman Catholic faith is built on the twin pillars of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, neither is more important than the other, and neither can exist without the other. Just an aside...
I'm hoping Premier Kenny will
I'm hoping Premier Kenny will bring Ireland quickly into the 21st century and completely secularize the Irish Republic. The government must put an end to the privileges enjoyed by the Catholic Church once and for all before any serious reform effort can occur. Get rid of the pope's legate, these bishops, and retire most of the priests.
Replace them with married men and women.
Important to get facts right.
Important to get facts right. The Irish Parliament has not passed, nor even had presented to it,any bill to break the seal of the Confessional. What you refer to is a SUGGESTION by a Government Minister to include such a provision in fortcomimg legislation on mandatory reporting on abuse of children. From my knowledge of Ireland and Irish politics, I doubt if this will happen. So, no need to get too excited at this stage.
Read the article you've
Read the article you've linked again. The Irish parliament (Dail) has not enacted anything. It's a government bill still subject to debate, withdrawal, amendment or passage in a different format. In good faith and charity I'll assume this is not an instance of manufactured outrage on your part.
I think you will find that
I think you will find that this legistation has been forced upon the Irish government. Those who have hidden behind the seal of confessional as abusers or the protectors of abusers need to know that the Irish state will not stand for this any more. Many in Ireland I'm sure will not agree with this course of events, but Rome has left the Irish state with no choice. Bishop John Magee - a Vatican aide to three Popes- actually protected the abusers of children. He gave his second-in-command Monsignor Denis O'Callaghan, who admits he was more concerned with the plight of abusive priests than victims, a free hand to defy an edict to report all accusations. How can any Christan in his right mind defend people like this.
No more turning a blind eye or paying off abused victim's for their silence. No more moving sexually abusive priest's from one parish to another so as to protect the church. As a Irishman I very very proud that the Taoiseach is finally standing up to those who are protecting such evil people. I can only hope that those christans within the Catholic Church follow the lead of the few within that church like Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin and do whatever it takes to finally bring an end to these most unchristian of acts perpetrated on children
We must protect children at all costs.
Dear Mark: Thanks for your
Dear Mark:
Thanks for your concern. My feeling is that the seal of confession remains as our practice whether it is sanctioned by the government or not. We just do not reveal. Governments cannot compel it. They can sue, they can imprison, they could even torture. But they cannot compel. There are plenty of brave priests who would not give in. It really is a red herring. We just have to get our clerical house in order to have true ministers of the gospel.
If the "seal of confession"
If the "seal of confession" is an excuse to hide crime, it and church confession should be condemned and done away with. That seal was invented by curialists long ago, and it is used to hide crimes. The extension into anything considered sacred is a farce. Have you noticed how the people are reforming the church regarding confession. The hours have been reduced to a half hour or one hour on weekends, and as chosen by "penitents" at other times. Lots of other church practices will be changed in the same way, by the lay people just ignoring them. Ignoring them like they are ignoring church attendance, empty pews, elderly congregations.
Please get your facts
Please get your facts straight by giving details of this bill passed in the Irish Parliament: title of the bill, date of passage, number of votes for and against, date bill was eigned into law by the President etc..
Even with all the
Even with all the reports....even with all the public outcry.....the Vatican & it's bishops will never change. The only hope
is for everyone to close their wallets! Then only then will anyone REALLY listen.
I've done what you recommend:
I've done what you recommend: I don't give a cent to the Church. Instead, for more than ten years I work for free to a congregation that I trust - time and service can be more precious than money - and have funded two grants that helped African youngsters to graduate, through priests that deserve my entire confidance.
The absolute lack of transparency of Vatican finances don't let me much choice, since the time of the criminal dealings of Marcinkus - which, by the way, ended with a banker being hanged on the light post of a London bridge and without any form of explanation, as usual - to the flourishing finances of the Vatican under the guidance of Opus Dei Bruni Tedeschi (a relative of the third or fourth wife of the French President).
If you think that many thousands of Catholic Germans and Austrians decided to cancel the automatic donation to Rome of part of their taxes - that's why we know there was a mass exodus of Catholics in both countries in the last two years, after the sex abuse scandals -, and that Peter's Pence droped dramatically, I can't resist to ask how the Vatican's finances are flourishing at all.
I can be wrong, but I'm waiting for a much big scandal than the last one. Or, otherwise, OD banker produces financial miracles - a case that would make his holy and moral duty to head to the International Monetary Fund and help to resolve the effects of the global financial crisis that are reducing millions to hunger, malnutrition and death.
Thank you Tom Doyle... And
Thank you Tom Doyle...
And all dioceses "world wide" need to be investigated for sex crimes and cover ups. The Cloyne diocese is not unique in the way catholic church officials handle the sex abuse of children.
The "Cloyne Report" is one more example of how the catholic church hierarchy systematically protect themselves instead of protecting innocent kids.
Crimes have been committed and the only way to get this abuse stopped is for outside law enforcement and government officials to take action against those responsible.
ALL who sexually abuse a child, plus ALL who cover up this abuse, need to be held accountable and charged for these crimes.
Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, 636-433-2511
snapjudy@gmail.com
"Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests"
Well said, Fr. Tom. As
Well said, Fr. Tom. As usual, your words are prophetic. Clericalism is perpetuating this scandal and is a burden of great weight that is bringing down the Catholic Church, its Middle Ages incarnation at least.
I think this is a watershed
I think this is a watershed moment. A line has been crossed. Hopefully other EU countries will follow suit. Belgium next? Will Obama ever address the Vatican's role in the huge public safety issue revealed by the Philadelphia grand jury report? Can Philadelphia be the only diocese hiding clergy with credible accusations in plain sight?
The Taoiseach has given a
The Taoiseach has given a powerful and much-needed speech, and it is likely to have repercussions in many places outside Ireland. No, the problem of illegal Vatican interference is not restricted to that country. Some months ago, upon the naming of Bishop Robert Vasa as coadjutor bishop of Santa Rosa, CA, I wrote to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton suggesting that the State Department should call in the papal nuncio to the U.S., Archbishop Pietro Sambi, and read him the diplomatic riot act for continuing to endanger U.S. children.
Why was this so? Because 1) the papal nuncio has primary responsibility for recommending names of persons to fill episcopal vacancies, and Abp. Sambi had clearly placed Bp. Vasa's name on such a list; 2) Bp. Vasa, in his previous diocese in eastern Oregon had a)refused to make the annual reports required by the USCCB regarding sexual abuse cases, b)had refused to allow or promote in his diocese the anti-abuse training required, c)not taken sufficient steps to insure background checks for those working with children and youth, but instead imposed a theological "loyalty oath" of questionable orthodoxy upon any lay person wishing to become a lector or eucharistic minister. Now that he has become the bishop of Santa Rosa (his predecessor recently retired, a year early), if Bishop Vasa attempts to roll back the clock to impose his former policies instead of the relatively stringent ones of his predecessor, the children of the diocese will be placed at much greater risk. And by the way, Santa Rosa has a long and sad history of both sexual abuse and financial shenanigans. The people of the diocese are bruised and broken. They need healing.
So far as I know, nothing resulted from that letter. However, now that the Irish have called their nuncio on the carpet, perhaps we in the U.S. will also find the moral courage to do so.
This has nothing to do with the right of the Church to select its own bishops. It simply has to do with civil society's right and duty to protect its citizens, and particularly its youth, from sexual predation. It also has to do with the government of one sovereign state (the Vatican) attempting to impose its laws and policies upon another sovereign state (Ireland or the U.S.) by secret means.
Sadly, all of this lends far too much credibility to the old Protestant charges of the Pope trying to run other countries. Maybe they were right all along, only we Catholics didn't know it?
Thank you Thomas Doyle. I
Thank you Thomas Doyle. I wonder if anyone in the USA will have the guts to make a similiar statement supporting the youth in our country. I also wonder if the RCC heirarchy will ever get the message that they are not exempt of the laws of decency as well as the laws of the various countries where they are a guest foreign nation by their own reckoning.
God bless the Irish for taking action against the outdated monarchy.
It may be that the people of
It may be that the people of Ireland are beginning to realize that over the past few centuries it may just be that the Church of Rome held the society back from its potential, rather than propelling it forward.
God Bless Prime Minister Enda
God Bless Prime Minister Enda Kenny for his remarks about the latest judicial report about the sexual abuse scandal in Ireland. I am praying for the Holy Spirit to continue to give Mr. Kenny the courage to continue to tell the truth about what the bishops in Ireland and the leaders in the Vatican have been doing for so many years. The relationship between the Irish government and the Catholic church in Ireland is exactly the way that the present Pope would like to see governments and the Church throughout the world. Ireland was a theocracy where the church was above the laws of the land.
It was a beautiful and
It was a beautiful and passionate speech such as I've never heard before. It's a great day for children all over the world. After all the years of hearing about the bad, bad things that happened to children in Ireland, is it possible that we will now get to watch Ireland fix it? And will they do so even amidst financial collapse?
I can't even conceive of this happening in America. I imagine that way down the road America will fix what's wrong here after at least several other countries have done it. I will always remember that Ireland went first.
Hearing the speech is even better than reading it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo5MXrqbDeA
Here in the United States the
Here in the United States the Church has stymied our local district attorneys by refusing to give information, by hiding information and other such things. I am writing Obama and Jerry Brown to take similar action against the (un)Holy See. There is plenty of problems right here in the USA that need to be addressed.
Regarding: "The Vatican and
Regarding: "The Vatican and various elements of the hierarchy have flooded the Catholic world with countless words, all very carefully nuanced and wordsmithed, to express their regret and to their promise to change."
- Lombardi's remarks about the Cloyne Report's interpretation of Sarto's 1997 letter to the Bishops of Ireland should go down as prime example of how to create a catch 22 situation. Essentially the cover Lombardi is using for the curia in the Vatican is that because the reporting of child abuse in Ireland was not mandated it is unjust to hold the Church accountable. What Lombardi fails to acknowledge is that rape and other physical attacks are against the law in Ireland and that ought to have been enough for the bishops to turn offending clerics over the civil authorities without second guessing from the curia.
- Additionally, why is the curia stating that the bishops should not be held to an higher standard just because specific civil laws were not in place. Does Lombardi and the curia forget that civil laws, at their best, only articulate minimum standards of behaviour?
- Now the noose of the catch 22 situation: Sarto and the curia basically wrote that whatever the bishops did to deal with offending clerics would only be measured in terms of canon law; e.g., the curia would make no effort to consider what the Irish bishops wanted as canon law for Ireland. This means that when a bishop sends an offending cleric to the civil authorities, unless the bishop proceeded in terms of canon law, the curia would defend the offending cleric's right to remain a cleric, that is, the curia would not strip the cleric of his rights and prerogatives of priesthood -- and the offending cleric would still be a cleric in 'good standing' in his diocese. So, even if a cleric is proven to have raped a child the bishops would not be supported by the curia in stripping the offending cleric of the prerogatives and rights of ordination unless the bishops followed canon law strictly. The problem is that the letter implied that following civil law was in conflict with canon law -- resulting in an episcopal malaise of 'why bother'. As it turns out, 'why bother' might be the strategy of a number of Irish bishops in 1996-1997 which gave cause for Sarto to deconstruct the Irish church's document mandating episcopal action against offending clerics, and thus side stepping any consideration that the document would be local church law.
For the Vatican to diss
For the Vatican to diss Ireland after all the service and dedication Ireland's people have done for Catholicism shows just how out of touch with reality and history the Vatican is. Not to mention ungrateful and selfish.
Prime minister Enda Kenny has
Prime minister Enda Kenny has gone to the heart of the matter. No matter how his speech is read or interpreted the criminal nature of the Vatican is laid bare. Now is the time for all thoughtful people to look at the thousands of crimes that the Vatican has committed through the centuries, and to ask:"Is this the church that Christ had in mind?" Under the veneer of huge buildings, vast wealth and rituals the Vatican has perpetrated a withering blight on the human race.
If ye knew anything about
If ye knew anything about politics in Ireland, you'd know this was all political grandstanding. Kenny doesn't give a damn about anything but his own career. He wants to be known as the man who told the Vatican off and to use this as his campaign launcher.
First of all, the speech was
First of all, the speech was respectful in tone and I did not find anything offensive about it, but it is noteworthy that few politicans were present when he gave the speech, so I wouldn't say that the Irish parliament is in full agreement with the Prime Minister.
The majority of Irish left
The majority of Irish left the church a generation ago. Nevertheless, this speech is an historic document. Where will the Irish now go? Secularism is most likely with those of a religious bent entering some form of Protestantism Of course, there will be atheist,agnostics and those who embrace Oriental religions
to add spice to the Irish community.
The Irish people will do what
The Irish people will do what Christians and particularly Catholics are doing all over the world: do your own thing at your own pace. The institutional Church is in the throes of folding like a cheaply made circus tent.
The People of God are fed up with superstition, the moralizing hucksterism, and the perfidy of evil men who profess to be righteous--the "orthodox"!! Jesus warned of them and condemned them repeatedly in the gospels. We observe how applicable Jesus' prophecies and warnings are today.
I keep thinking that if we
I keep thinking that if we had married and women priests this would be less of a problem.
Dear Tom Doyle: I greatly
Dear Tom Doyle:
I greatly appreciate your comment on the clergy abuse scandal. However you fail to note the growing number of lawyers who see the Church as an ATM machine scorning real evidence. Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons commented on the Philadelphia crisis as motivated by the interests of lawyers. Similarly Cathy Simmons commented on the Irish PMs accusations on EWTN. She accused the government of failing to address the abuse of children in its own institutions. Kind regards, Anthony Sistrom (Eureka, CA)
Mr. Kenny spoke for most
Mr. Kenny spoke for most Catholics in condemning the clericalism of the Pope and hierarchy in respomding to abuses in the exercise of ecclesuastical power. We are fortunate that he has the authority of his office to enforce his anger and we must pray that his example will encourage others to express their unhappiness with the current 'restorationism', the attempt to return to the Dark Ages of Church-State relations of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The Pope'e word is not law, the bishop's word is not law, in fact both are worthless in the light of recent events and prevarications.and perversions. Christ did not establish a centralized administration in the Church, He chose Peter to support and guide his fellow apostles/bishops in preaching the Gospel and providing the faithful with principles by which to make moral decisions about life.
Is this the same Ireland that
Is this the same Ireland that is proposing that all Priests must reveal their confessions if someone breaks the law, for example, abuses children and confesses.
Ireland is not a place of defending the people but rather trying to circumvent the Church and its Heavenly authority to forgive sins, thus places souls in serious risk of hell. (yes, for all you liberals, Hell is real and so is sin, thank God for the new Translation, mea culpa :) )
No Priest in good standing and faith can or will obey an unjust law.
Thankyou, Tom Doyle, for your
Thankyou, Tom Doyle, for your article and for your courageous witness for the truth.
Archbishop Martin in Dublin says the truth will set us free.
It does not seem like the Pope wants the truth to be known, as he chooses to hide behind a claim to diplomatic immunity, so that he will not have to open the Vatican's files, on worldwide priest sex abuse, for investigation.
You and Prime Minister Enda Kenny and Archbishop Martin have the integrity to seek for the truth, for the good of our Church. Thankyou!
Sincerely, Dr Rosemary Eileen McHugh, Chicago, mchughrosemary@gmail.com
Not to diminish the high
Not to diminish the high crimes of the RCC but please examine the Jehovah's Witnesses who go door to door and come on our property.
Jehovah's Witnesses pedophiles.
Many court documents and news events prove that Jehovah's Witnesses require two witnesses when a child comes forward with allegations of molestation within the congregation. Such allegations have customarily been treated as sins instead of crimes and are only reported to authorities when it is required to do so by law, (which varies by state). It has also been shown that child molesters within the organization usually have not been identified to the congregation members or the public at large.
These people engage in a door to door ministry, possibly exposing children to pedophiles.
Although the Watchtower Bible Tract Society claims that known pedophiles are accompanied by a non-pedophile in such work, there is no law stating that such a practice must be followed.
The Watchtower corporation has paid out millions in settlement money already.
--
Danny Haszard abuse victim
www.dannyhaszard.com
Thankyou Prime Minister
Thankyou Prime Minister Kenny. It is time that someone in leadership spoke up. Let us not forget 1 Corinthians 5, to purge the church of sin for the church stands or falls together. "Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1:7-8)".
Post new comment