The papacy: A canonical problem

No matter...it would just be power at the top as usual.

"The present Code of Canon Law declares that in such a situation [papal incapacitation] 'nothing is to be innovated in the governance of the universal church...'"

Where is the "innovation" in local selection of bishops? If folks in a diocese were to elect their bishop, they would be doing exactly what their ancestors in the faith did centuries ago! And without papal interference, to boot!!

I see no need to enact so-called "special laws...for these circumstances."

Indeed, let's not look the potential "gift horse in the mouth." Papal incapacitation would give the People of God the opportunity to continue the logical trajectory of ecclesial renewal called for by the world's bishops at the Second Vatican Council.

Let's leave well enough alone.

It is sad the Richard McBrien apparently does not believe in the divine guardianship of the Roman Catholic Church. God will always provide for HIS church, as He has for 2000 years. By Jesus teachings, nothing, including someone's physical or mental condition, will prevail against it.

Have Faith my brother.

That is a serious question. I was reading the Code of Canon Law of a small sect yesterday and they have a specific provision relating to the permanent disability of their patriarch. It makes sense, but must be carefully worded to prevent a coup d'etat.

Fr. McBrien is at least several centuries ahead of the Vatican. That they need to be reminded of plans for the orderly transfer of power in the event of mental or physical incapacity in this day and age, shows how truly out of touch they are with reality and the modern world.

Joseph Jaglowicz nearly hit the nail on the head - the Pope selecting bishops is a relatively new practice. Previously, each diocese elected their own bishop from within. The thoughts of an "outsider" being moved in to take of the spiritual leadership was simply unheard of.

That being said, wouldn't the College of Cardinals and more specifically the Secretary of State take over? Didn't Cardinal Ratzinger do just that on John Paul II's death? Thanks to modern medicine and the Church's dislike of suicide and euthanasia (to which I agree), though, any ill person can now be kept alive in a persistent vegetative state for many years.

God has certainly not provided for leadership over the entire 2000 years. Read your history books. This pope and all future popes should be impeached, along
with the bishops and cardinals.

"Schineller noted that it would be possible for the pope to remain comatose "for years." In that case, no new dioceses could be created and no bishops appointed. In other words, much of the work of the church would grind to a halt."

Just imagine how disappointed newly appointed [to the Congregation of Bishops] Archbishop Burke, as well as current members Cardinals Levada and Rigali would be, along with all the other Curial sycophants...and how much better off the entire Church would be, considering the conservative, neo-traditionalist bishops they are most likely to ramrod through the system over the next 20 years or so. This is precisely the type of "work of the church" which needs to "grind to a halt!" One can only hope that the Vatican continues to dig in its heels and ignore the pragmatic advice of both Fathers Provost and Schineller.

God expects human beings to do what they can. If Nelson is to be believed there is no need for a conclave to elect a new pope, God will make his selection known. Grow up!

the answer proposed by Vatican II:

greater collegiality

and let the local diocese universally choose its own bishop
rather than Burke and Bernie

What do NCR readers care about these issues? Ya'll couldn't care less about what the pope says or does. A disabled pope would rob you of someone to whine about though.

Less caustically, I see 2 or 3 major problems with attempts to make a permanent canonical solution:
*How do you account for every eventuality? There is a great difference between various popes health needs and prognoses. Plus how you you fully account for a pope in a vegetative state, a pope in a theoretically reversible coma, a pope who had succumb to dementia/Alzheimer's, a pope who is mentally sharp but with total physical disability, etc?
*If you put the power to relieve a pope into the hands of a few cardinals, who would they be?
*Also, do you trigger the question to remove a pope via specific criteria (in which case the first problem arises), or will they be granted the power upon their own prudential judgment (in which case how do we avoid this group of cardinals deposing a pope for political or doctrinal reasons by declaring him "unfit")
*Does a pope who does not consent due to incapacity truly relinquish the papacy?

Perhaps a solution would be that canon law should require each pope to set up his own advance directives with regard to end-of-life health care decisions as well as what to do with his office as he sees fit.

If I were in such a position, even were I a diocesan bishop I would have in my advance directive say that were I to be judged totally and irreversibly cognitively disabled by a trusted adviser of my choosing, My resignation would be automatically tendered. or if I were rendered cognitively disabled for a long enough time, even if I might recover at some point, I would set up a similar direction so that the people would have leadership. I specify cognitive disabled since if I were conscious, and physically diabled, I would be able to explicitly resign.

Mental and/or physical incapacity do not make a pope less a pope, as witnessed in the final days of Pope John Paul II. In such a case, obviously the pope's top advisors did and would assist him in the governance of the Church.

Perhaps Father McBrien should find something more closer to home to worry about; perhaps he should consider the state of his soul and priesthood.

This is exactly why the Second Vatican Council taught that the Church is the People of God. No member of the hierarchy: Pope, Cardinal, or Bishop is needed for the Church to continue. The 21st Century Church will continue to do what it has always done in this and the previous century, function quite well in the Spirit with or without a Pope. In reality the Pope has been "gone" for at least 40 years. Spiritual direction has nothing to do with an institutional structure: it is relationship between the believer and the Creator.

The question would be moot if Benedict XVI goes in a more eastward direction, which many St. Malachy followers believe he will. If he becomes one of many Patriarchs and more patriarchies (great churches) are created in western Christendom, no action is needed on this issue. Indeed, given that the Terrible Judge will destroy Rome during the next papacy, it may very well be that Peter the Roman could be an anti-pope leading a rump faction that does not agree with moving toward eastern ways. If that is the case, Benedict is the last roman pontiff, so there is no issue of succession. Indeed, the office of Cardinal is purely honorary without the possibility of another Conclave.

The only question is, who would the anti-pope be? I am thinking Burke or Law, although Rigali might have the gall for such an act.

Of course, if St. Malachy is wrong and the worst of all circumstances occurs, a Council could be called by the Camerlango to deal with the crisis. The Church is quite capable of adapting quickly.

Try this on for size...
If the Pope is indeed a bishop as described in canon law, why not enforce mandatory retirement at age 75? This would enable the election of younger popes and the retired popes could form an advisory group as Popes Emeritus.
How much sense is there in challenging God to maintain the mental health of these old codgers? We have discovered that God doesn't do it for the rest of the heirarcy and have enforced our retirement rules. Why not do the same for popes?

A number of dioceses are "sede vacante" for at least a year (some for dozens of years). The trials and tribulations of a vacant see are myriad. Who ordains deacons (transitional as well as permanent)? All sorts of basic things do not get accomplished while the chair is vacant.

Over 70

Perhaps TNCath could join Father McBrien by considering the state of his own soul instead of making snide remarks.

The papacy should have a line of succession like the American Presidency does. If the Pope becomes incapacitated then the Vatican Secretary of State should take over his functions in terms of governing the Church at least. However, he should not be permitted to make any doctrinal rulings since that is reserved to the Pope.

What has happened in the past? When Pope John XII, the Catholic Caligula, turned the Lateran into a brothel did not the cardinals etc depose him? Surely, the Church is greater than the bishop of Rome or is the bishop of Rome greater than the Pope. What happens if we get another John XII, another Borgia pope etc?,

I sense a lot of ill-will in this week's column... Trust in Chjrist Jesus-God come in the flesh...

Not ill will more like quiet desperation. Father has been pushing the boundaries like an spiritual adolescent for a long time and if he can't defeat the Pope with logic why not hint at the danger to the Church of a senile Pope.He forgets Jesus' promise The Holy Spirit guides and protects Mother Church.

The gates of hell shall never prevail. Have faith in God. He will guide his church. Do not worry about tomorrow -- doesn't Christ remind us of this as well.
To those who have pointed out Popes who have done sinful things as humans -- remember we are all sinners, every single one of us. All authority has it's authorship in God. I believe Christ told Pilate that the only reason he had his (Pilate) power was that God allowed it. To say that by having bad popes somehow means God was not guiding his Church is a statement made in error.
To those who think we can do without the Eucharist -- your thinking is idiotic. Without "eating his flesh, and drinking his blood" we will have NO life within us.

The lowest levels of hell are reserved for the clergy who have taught anything that is not the truth and led souls astray. Some of these moral relativist better sit in front of the Blessed Eucharist for awhile and understand they are not there to sound smart and above the clergy but to be shepherd's of the faith.

A search for 'Peter the Roman' returns over 3 million 'googled' results. Yet, the prophecy given in 1139 A.D. was in virtual obscurity for over 400 years until the invention of the printing press. In the computer age there has been a resurgence in the interest of the list of names.

As Jesus Christ spoke of not rejoicing over our ability to pray that our joy may be full, but that our names are written in heaven, and the fact that Jesus Christ has raised me from the dead to the office of 'Peter the Roman', I hold that the list of names in the St. Malachy prophecies are akin to, if not exactly, those very names written in heaven.

Even Nostradamus spoke of 'Peter the Roman' in Century VII, #24.

The use of 'the strong one' in the quatrain refers to Daniel 7:7.

Jesus Christ's resurrecting me is in His fulfillment of an agreement of contract law into which both He and I entered prior to my baptising Him.

Pleased to meet you.

the resurrected John,
Prophet of the Most High,
whom Jesus Christ called the "Elias who was to come.",
St. John the Baptist,
enjoying the rapture in the call of duty as Peter the Roman