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PDF versionImpasses in today's church
by Richard McBrien on Jul. 27, 2009
Terrence Tilley is chair of the Department of Theology at Fordham University and immediate past president of the Catholic Theological Society of America.
In his presidential address at the recent Catholic Theological Society of America convention in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Tilley spoke of the negative effects of the "stalemate" or "impasses" that currently afflict the Catholic church (for the full text, "Three Impasses in Christology," see Origins 6/25/09).
The three ecclesial impasses are "a shrinking and in some places demoralized presbyterate that cannot be enlarged significantly under present rules, a laity that loves the church but has stopped listening to the bishops and a hard-working and loyal body of religious women who are disgusted and discouraged by repeated investigations of religious life and attempted reversals of self-governance."
Some of the bishops, Tilley observed, have tried "to work through these difficult impasses," but others prefer to ignore them. Still others make these even worse by following the example of "the vigilantes of the political and religious right by making noisy attacks on Catholic institutions of higher education."
Was Tilley perhaps thinking of the criticisms voiced by many bishops this spring against the University of Notre Dame for inviting President Barack Obama to deliver this year's Com-mencement address and to receive an honorary degree?
Tilley also expressed concern about the large numbers of Catholics who have simply drifted away from the church, according to last year's survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. He speculated that this "may be the response to stalemate in church."
As for the three Christological impasses, and specifically the loss of a spirit of cooperation and collaboration between the church's scholarly community and officials in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and in the hierarchy generally, Tilley counseled a "more adequate tactic," namely, allowing the "virtues of hope, constancy, fidelity, tenacity, and solidarity" to work.
"The vices of inertia, expediency, marginalizing the other and changing the subject are deadly," he pointed out.
"Stopping the dialogue by silencing theologians [such as Jesuits Roger Haight in our time and Teilhard de Chardin back in the 1950s] does not resolve impasse. You can kill theologians, but you cannot silence them–short of gagging their mouths and tying their hands behind them," Tilley continued.
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"Theologians keep writing and keep talking. The habitus of their vocation is too strong to be stopped by human authorities." But here one might enter a few words of reservation.
The atmosphere can become so toxic that some, perhaps even many, theologians begin to pull their scholarly punches lest they draw unfriendly attention to themselves. Not everyone, it must be acknowledged, is built for combat or can tolerate being in official disfavor.
Tilley did note, in support of his claim, that the French liberals of the first third of the 19th century and the European modernists of the early 20th century, both of whom were condemned by Rome, kept writing and speaking, and thereby became the cornerstones of Catholic social teaching in the first instance, and of the Second Vatican Council, in the second.
The so-called "new theology" that developed in mid-20th century France, just prior to Vatican II, did not die out, in spite of the concerted efforts of what was then called the Holy Office (the forerunner of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). The movement's leading figures, such as Dominican Fr. (later Cardinal) Yves Congar, lived on and became major figures at the council.
The same was true of the then-premier theologian in the United States, Jesuit Fr. John Courtney Murray, who was silenced and then deliberately kept off the council's invitation list for the first session. He returned, thanks to the efforts of New York's Cardinal Francis Spellman, to become the chief architect of the U.S. church's major contribution to Vatican II, namely, the Declaration on Religious Freedom.
If the ideas of such figures perdure and help to shape the future life of the church, Tilley declared, it is "because they enable thoughtful people to live in and live out of the faith tradition in new contexts."
Therefore, the way through our impasses, according to Terrence Tilley, is "not for theologians to repeat the formulas of the past … not for authorities to insist on one model for the mystery nor for theologians to close their ears to criticisms but for all to work to communicate the tradition in the present using many models understandable in the present. ..."
We can thereby "continue to practice the faith despite ideological diversity, and thus to allow these impasses, like all temporalities, to pass."
Such words, one hopes, will not fall on deaf ears.
Editor's Note: Here's a news account of Tilley's address, CTSA head suggests approaches to resolving 'impasses' in church.
Here's the full text of Tilley's presidential address, from the society's Web site.
© 2009 Richard P. McBrien. All rights reserved. Fr. McBrien is the Crowley-O'Brien Professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame.
I thank you for having the
I thank you for having the integrity by not referring to Professor Tilley as a Catholic Theologian puruant to the Apostolic Constitution Ex Corde Ecclesiae sinc he hqas chosen not to sign the Mandatum. For interested readers see:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/docum...
Oh Snowdrop....there you go
Oh Snowdrop....there you go again. If you understood Ex Corde and the Mandatum, you would know that:
1. No Catholic Theologian is required to have the Mandatum
2. The Mandatum only requires that no teacher teaches "as Catholic," items that aren't in line with Catholic orthodoxy. In other words, the teacher can teach varied views and even disagreements so long as he's not teaching that it coincides with official Catholic teaching.
3. Take heart that you're not alone though Snowdrop. Half of the Bishops don't understand it either and think they can use it as a club to show their authority over Catholic Universities in their jurisdictions.
"the Mandatum only requires
"the Mandatum only requires that no teacher teaches "as Catholic" items that aren't in line with Catholic orthodoxy. In other words, the teacher can teach varied views and even disagreements so long as he's not teaching that it coincides with official Catholic teaching."
Since we all know that any element of Theology that is not grounded in The Truth is nonsense, you are claiming that the teacher is allowed to teach nonsense as long as he teaches that it is nonsense. Hmmm, that sounds like nonsense to me.
Brilliant Nancy!! You're
Brilliant Nancy!!
You're right, no kid should ever learn about what other religions believe
Brilliant!!
Padre, the History of
Padre, the History of Religion and Catholic Theology are not the same. A Catholic Theology Department should teach Catholic Theology.
nan, as compared to . . .
nan,
as compared to . . .
We pay fees for our children
We pay fees for our children to go to Catholic schools and Catholic universities where logically we expect there to be a Catholic identity and Catholic teaching. If kids want to learn about other religions they can go to those churches. You wouldn't expect to attend a Moslem, Jewish or Mormon college and expect to be taught about Catholicism. Catholic parents and students have a right to expect orthodox teaching at Catholic Colleges and schools. Those who which to teach other philosophies shouldn't be at a Catholic college or school.
and you still don't know what
and you still don't know what the mandatum is, so you
Regarding the mandatum:
Regarding the mandatum:
http://www.usccb.org/bishops/mandatumguidelines.shtml
I am trying to make sense of #3, under Nature of the Mandatum, that states:
"Theologians who have received a mandatum ARE NOT CATECHISTS, they teach IN THEIR OWN NAME, by virtue of their baptism and their academic and professional competence, NOT in the name of the Bishops or THE CHURCH'S MAGISTERIUM.
Following the non-logic of this statement, you have a mandatum that states a Theologian will teach in communion with the Catholic Church but does not require that a Theologian be a Catechist and allows a Theologian to teach in their own name by virtue of their baptism and their academic and professional competence and NOT in the name of the Church's Magisterium.
So the mandatum is NOT a mandatum. No wonder there are so many impasses in today's Church. The purpose of Catholic Theology is to explain and defend The Truth, not to be a witness to nonsense.
Nancy, catechesis is not
Nancy, catechesis is not theology, and theology is not catechesis.
Theology has been defined as "faith seeking understanding." This search would necessarily include reliance not just on official teaching but also on history, philosophy, anthropology, archaeology, and various professional disciplines within the social and natural sciences.
At the risk of oversimplification, I see catechesis as presentation and theology as exploration. Catechist certification does not (so far as I know) entail doctoral attainment. Professional theologians generally have attained doctoral degrees in Catholic, Pontifical, or other institutions of higher learning.
(For those of you who may not know, Nancy is one of my fellow bloggers over at Commonweal.)
Joseph, since it is true that
Joseph, since it is true that Catechesis is a reflection of Catholic Theology, how can a Catholic Theologian be a Catholic Theologian if they are not Catechised to begin with?
Nancy, Catholic theologians
Nancy, Catholic theologians have been catechized. In fact, it was likely their catechetical indoctrination, inter alia, that prompted them to pursue Catholic and ecumenical theological studies at the graduate and post-graduate levels.
Nan.Dan. what is Truth?
Nan.Dan.
what is Truth?
"What is Truth?" was asked by
"What is Truth?" was asked by Pilate, as a way to convey his intellectual confusion. Today, many people, sadly even some Catholics, are desperately seeking an answer to that question. Clearly, Frere Charles appears to be as well. They look in various religions, spiritualities and philosophies. Worse still, they look for answers in politicians and governments.
As Catholics, though, we have access to the fullness of revealed truth. Moreover, we know Who the Truth is: Jesus Christ, Who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life". Truth is not a "what", it is a "Who". As Catholics in a world lost and seeking after Truth, we have the obligation to present that Truth to the world. To do so, we must ourselves be taught in an authentic manner.
Moreover, there used to be a recognition of the importance of systematic teaching. In other words, one begins by teaching students the established truths of the Faith. Then, after the students have a firm grasp of the Faith as a background and source, they are taught the appropriate manner in which to begin seeking understanding. Today, many theologians simply overlook the "Faith" part, and simply teach their students to seek understanding without any background or source to that search. Is it any wonder, then, that some students find that understanding, that meaning, outside the Faith.
Dear Brother Clint, Kindly do
Dear Brother Clint,
Kindly do not misinterpret for the public how I "appear" at your rhetorical convenience, nor what I look in or for.
The question posed by a rather bored Pilate was clearly rhetorical and the classic, persistent question of Philosophers. And so do I pose it here, to point out the absurdity of the several hostile commenters here (does this include you?) who arrogantly claim to have a corner on all Truth, often even above and beyond Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.
Have you read yet his latest social encyclical? It directly rebukes your "free-market (i.e. monopolist)" economic platform as an evil. Have you read here yet the analysis of that document by the revered Roman Catholic theologian the Reverend Father Tissa Balasuriya?
The background, the meaning, the fullness of our Faith?
Love thy enemy and do good to those who harm thee.
"I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat; an alien and you received me not."
Dear Brother Charles, I have
Dear Brother Charles,
I have indeed read the Holy Father's social encyclical. It does not rebuke the free market. Rather, it instructs the free market to be what it should be: ethical and moral. The market is not something to fear, the Pope writes. Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations." Further, he writes, "Economy and finance . . . can be used badly when those at the helm are motivated by purely selfish ends. Instruments that are good in themselves can thereby be transformed into harmful ones. But it is man's darkened reason that produces these consequences, not the instrument per se. Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility."
The Pope attempts to communicate that the market is not evil, but that human beings who engage in market economics can, at times as a result of man's sinful inclinations, use the instrument of the market for immoral, selfish, and at times evil ends. However, when individuals of good will use the market ethically and morally, focused not only on profit but also on the common good, the market is capable of greater good than any other solely human instrument.
The Holy Father turns his attention to two principles related to "truth in charity". The first is to focus our attention away from earthly ideas of justice, related to rights and duties, toward the eternal truth of justice and its priorities, priorities that have salvific and theological value: compassion, generosity, mercy and communion. Secondly, he reminds us that truth in charity is always focused on the common good, defined as an extension of the good of individuals who live in society and have broad social responsibilities, particularly responsibilities of mercy, generosity, compassion and communion to those most in need.
If you had read "Caritas in Veritate" closely, instead of simply giving it a cursory glance and then supplementing that by reading NCR's review of the Pope's words, you would know all of this. No, I have not read Fr. Belasuriya's commentary on the papal document. I prefer to read the Holy Father's own words and any further commentary that I need on his words I will find from theologians who do not have a history of repudiating core truths of the Faith.
The President of the Catholic
The President of the Catholic Theology Society of America is "not a Catholic" but you, dear anonymous Snowdrop (imagining yourself as pure as the driven snow and sans blemish?) are the arbiter of Catholicism? As always, spiritual pride remains the deadliest of the seven deadly sins. I, for one, reject your incredible arrogance, as always cloaked with fear-filled anonymity. You really seem maliciously negative, never positive, never trying to contribute to solving the real problems besetting the church today, only seeimg to care about proclaiming your own righteousness like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. A real spiritual dark force, and a plague on this website. Major screw loose.
With respect, I DO NOT take
With respect, I DO NOT take advice from self described Catholic persons that deny that Jesus is God come in the flesh. I am not making this up! See the comment posted by Joe denying the incarnation at: http://ncronline.org/news/women/visitors-past
Dearest Snowdrop, I have
Dearest Snowdrop,
I have followed the link which you supply and fail to find a denial by anyone of the incarnation. I did see a question by another person altogether as to how you define a return of Jesus Christ in the flesh (the question asks "same DNA?") but I see nothing from Joe which denies the incarnation. Could you quote please his statement?
I did see a rather startling statement by victoriag placing Mother Angelica above a bishop in terms of expanded infallibility, and this rather plaintive statement by yourself:
"You know its is really
Submitted by Snowdrop (not verified) on Jul. 09, 2009.
You know its is really frustrating sometimes when fair comments are purposely edited out because they make a point contrary to the webeditor's point of view..."
Do you feel you (or I for that matter) do not get sufficient time and space upon these pages?
ora pro me
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
Frerer, Check again you
Frerer, Check again you probably missed it because its signed Joseph Corde
If you look at a list of the
If you look at a list of the Catholic (yes, Catholic), theologians, colleges and universities that have not signed the Mandatum--pretty impressive. The list of those who have signed--not so much.
Perhaps it is neither wise
Perhaps it is neither wise nor charitable to be so smug. In the end Jesus had just a handful on the hill of calvary none but His Mother John and the two other Marys were prepared to be seen in solidarity with Jesus.
Snowdrop was simply making sure that laity who might read this site would know that this "Theologian" had already shown he was not prepared to be seen as publicly loyal to the magisterium.
Jesus promised He would prevent the gates of hell prevailing against His beloved Church. He will not fail to protect His Church from error.
Snowdrop, you remind us only
Snowdrop,
you remind us only women and the evangelist were at the Incarnate Eucharist.
And yet women cannot become priests . . .
How is that?
just wondering
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
Yeah. And brings tears to my
Yeah. And brings tears to my eyes. Pray to Christ Jesus-God come in the flesh asking Jesus for a new Pentecost in America.
Have you heard the story
Have you heard the story about the man who was in a flood and was sitting on his roof asking God to save him? Three times he ignored the neighbors pleas to get in their boats and leave with him. Finally God said "I've sent 3 boats to save you and you sent them all away". We are sometimes looking so hard for something to be the way we want it, we don't see what God has offered. With that said let me tell you I believe we are in that new Pentecost you are praying for. The Holy Spirit resides in all these people, even the ones who want the priesthood for women and married people. The Holy Spirit resides in people like Joseph who misunderstood you to say Jesus is coming back in the flesh in the future - he already understands Jesus came historically in the flesh. The Holy Spirit is here, alive and well in all the people who's words you like and also in those who challenge the status quo of a sinful church hierarchy. Your new Pentecost is here. The people are speaking God's language of love for all and you don't hear it.
People sometimes wonder why
People sometimes wonder why the Church is so slow to recognise and affirm visions and sites where Our Lord or Our Blessed Lady are claimed to have appeared to people but the Church knows full well that the devil can asume many guises and people can be deceived thus the Church waits till the fruits of the Spirit make it abundantly clear that it really is the Spirit at work.
What are the fruits of the Spirit? In terms of a religious order dwindling vocations might suggest the Spirit was no longer energising the order or when a religious begins neglecting their personal private prayer life or being of the world and not simply in it perhaps they are nor Spirit lead?
Being loved by the world and admired by people is not always a sign of being Spirit lead Spirit lead people in Nazi Germany were despised Maximillan Kolbe and Edith Stein were not admired and loved by Hitler's Reich.
To say chastity is right and sexual intimacy outside a sacramental marriage is wrong is not something that will make you popular but it is Truth. To say artificial contraception is not right because it undermines physical and emotional health and that the only way tp plan your family size in a way that respects the natural and Divine is the natural family planning method pioneered by John and Evelyn Billings. This method has the positive benefits of improving comunication between spouses costs nothing and still leaves room for God to act within the marriage. Marriage is not simply a 2 person agreement Catholic marriage is a 3 party agreement -God, husband and wife.
When Jesus began his teaching of the eucharist we are told there were many who found it too hard a teaching to accept and they left Jesus. Sadly many Catholics did the same when John Paul 6 came out with his encyclical making it clear that catholics were not to use artificial contraception. Every warning he gave about what would follow for society if artificial contraception was adopted has come to pass.Jesus understands that many who defied the Pope's wisdom were misled by priests who supported them in their rejection of this teaching and he forgives any one who confesses their error and welcomes them back to full solidarity with His Truth.
I agree. We are all the Body
I agree. We are all the Body of Christ.
The Holy Spirit resides in
The Holy Spirit resides in the heart of those who keep God's commands.There will be souls who bear all the external marks of allegiance and piety but are wolves within bereft of the Spirit. To know if the Spirit is present external signs are not a guarantee It is by the fruit we know the Spirit is present.Nor can we ever risk complacency. When we turn away and stop keeping God's commands the Spirit leaves us unable to live in a soul that no longer lives according to God's commands.
The beautiful Serenity prayer of Saint Francis is very wise and the sense of perspective in Ecclesiastes is very calming.
And God's command is: To Love
And God's command is:
To Love thy Enemy and do good to those who harm you.
Love ya, Where . . .
I am sick and tired of
I am sick and tired of christofascists like snowdrop who consult their own ideologies as sources for facts. That snowdrop does not and cannot know my mandatum status is obvious from the post. Learn some history and for heaven's sake, quit asserting what you don't know. Or, preferably, just shut up.
dude, TW, like, dude, You are
dude,
TW,
like, dude,
You are so NOT Terence Tilley of whom this article is written,
ok?
so leave my dearest little drop of snow alone, ok?
Or, preferably . . .
(Hey, Snowdrop, how did THIS ever pass the censors you so often complain of?)
To use the name of Christ and
To use the name of Christ and the term Fascist in a portmanteau word as a term of personal abuse is an abuse of the HOly Name and does you no credit.
How about "Christomeanies"
How about "Christomeanies" instead of "christofascists"? That just sounds better to me.
A certain level of respect is
A certain level of respect is desiracle. We are not talking about characters from a children's cartoon series
I was being sarcastic. The
I was being sarcastic.
The comment above by "Civility needed" is exactly on target.
Such a term is inherently offensive and there is an anger and violence underlying its use which is utterly uncharitable.
I have doubts that you are
I have doubts that you are Terrence Tilley, Chair of the Department of Theology at Fordham University, but if you were, I would like to point out that your first false assumption regarding The Truth can be found in the title of the book, "Jesus Symbol of God". It appears that you have recycled the arian heresy from the beginning (title) since it is a fact that Jesus was not a symbol of God, He is God.
We all know that once you add a false assumption or remove an element from a truth, a truth is no longer a truth.
The Truth is God.
P.S., Regarding Jesus Christ
P.S., Regarding Jesus Christ who is God:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_17_126/ai_56293817/
"christofascists"? I thought
"christofascists"?
I thought we are about dialogue, not name calling and demonizing others?
In other words: "Don't you
In other words: "Don't you dare speak or voice an opinion unless you agree with me!"
How typical of the left in the Church and in society as well.
I followed your link, but
I followed your link, but don't really have time to read the whole thing. I looked for the word Mandatum and couldn't find it in the Enlish translation. And even if I did, I'm not sure it would shed light to me on what signing a Mandatum has to do with being a Catholic Theologian. Would you mind explaining it in about a paragraph? I am interested, but I don't get it.
I am appalled by your
I am appalled by your conclusions/coments which are based on erroneous knowledge. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing indeed.
Thankyou for bringing
Thankyou for bringing Tilley's address to my attention. He is speaking not only for academics, but for all of us who are preachers. We constantly run the risk of being forbidden to preach - and not only by Rome but by local bishops who demand that we preach their particlar understanding of the faith. There is no allowance for diversity. It is sad because we do not then respect their authority, and can easily be persuaded to say only what that bishop wants taught.
Or the preacher risks still preaching and creating an us versus them situation, and since he/she is in the public domain, is more likely to draw followers, and so make people more anti-church.
There is plenty for those in authority to think about.
Dear Father, Remember
Dear Father, Remember obedience which is the cornerstone of Religious life. God bless and thank you for making the Sacrafice...
Obedience is the cornerstone
Obedience is the cornerstone of religious life, Snowdrop?
I thought love was what it's all about.
By this shall all know that you are my disciples: that you love one another.
The entire law and the prophets--the whole path of religious observance--is summed up by love.
Isn't it? In the Catholic tradition and in Catholic teaching, it certainly is, don't you agree?
Love is the cornerstone of a
Love is the cornerstone of a well lived (christian) life. It is all our responsibility.
Beyond that, Obedience is the cornerstone of all vocations, priestly and religious.
Look it up
Saint James, Jesus's brother,
Saint James, Jesus's brother, wrote that religion pure and simple is to help widows and orphans in their distress
That's what Jesus's own brother called the cornerstone of religious life
Sounds like Love.
Priestly and religious vocations are ministries of service of love
to the poor
"I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat"
The Holy Spirit comes to
The Holy Spirit comes to those who obey in holiness and deserts those who refuse to obey. Holy obedience brings the fruits of the Spirit Mary Mackillop had the quality of holy obedience as do all the great saints. If you read their stories you will see it was not always a peaceful journey and sometimes their suffering was at the hands of superiors whose pride made it difficult for them to recognise the Spirit in another soul.Saint Bernadette suffered much.Jesus set us the example of being a servant or slave at the Last Supper.It is through humble obedience to God's Law that we are able to see clearly.
Yes, William, but you fail to
Yes, William, but you fail to mention the fact that it is Christ who defines Love to begin with.
by showing us that Love (God
by showing us that Love (God is Love) is infinite and thus cannot ever be defined, any more than we can define God.
God is Love, and is never been defined, not now, and never shall be, world without end.
Love thy enemy, and thus redefine love, and then love more and surpass your own too slender, pale definitions.
I suppose that you think
I suppose that you think Judas was in the right since he evidently loved Jesus, but did not have faith in Jesus. If this is what you believe you are quite wrong since Obedience of Faith is the first requirement which pleases God and which also Justify the Sinner. For Faith, believing in God's word is counted as righteousness (check the Liturgical Canon - aka the Bible). That is why we Catholics are called the Faithful. Be careful as you might find yourself being a great lover who does not have faith like Judas. Try meditating on the last sentence...
"If you Love Me, you will
"If you Love Me, you will abide in My Word."-Christ
Thanks to all of you for
Thanks to all of you for setting me straight about the role of obedience in religious life.
I'm convinced you're missing the point, though. Religious life is one way among many of living the Christian vocation.
The calling to be a Christian is all about love.
When I hear several of you talk about obedience and truth, I hear notions of obedience and truth that do not faithfully represent our Catholic tradition, in which love is central to everything.
I hear people reducing the biblical concept of obedience (which informs the various rules of religious life) to something it was never intended to be--unthinking conformity to every regulation of Rome, no matter at what level that regulation functions.
From a biblical standpoint, and in the classic rules of religious life, obedience is giving oneself over with one's whole mind and soul to God, and giving oneself in love to others. It's not about shutting down one's mind and walking like robots behind a leader, no matter what the leader says.
The grand irony of our period of Catholic history is that, in the name of preserving orthodoxy, many of the most ardent defenders of what they call the Truth are actually betraying the tradition itself--above all, the centrality of the call to love.
well said, William
well said, William
"All that is true, by
"All that is true, by whomsoever it has been said has its origin in the Spirit. " Thomas Aquinas
"The highest manifestation of life consists in this: that a being governs its own actions. A thing which is always subject to the direction of another is somewhat of a dead thing." Thomas Aquinas
"Beware of the person of one book. " Thomas Aquinas
Much Love...Mitkuye Oyasin!
MC
Dear Snowdrop, how can you
Dear Snowdrop,
how can you say he did not have Faith in Jesus?
You so frequently and loudly find lack of Faith in others.
Did not Our Lord tell him to do quickly what he had to do, and did he not obey?
I thought you said obedience comes above all other things.
Saint James who was Jesus's brother wrote: Even the devil has Faith,and trembles . . .
and that Faith without works is dead . . .
Do you work as a religious writer?
just wondering
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
“In reality, obedience
“In reality, obedience understood as uncritical obedience to the will of another is not a virtue,” he observed, emphasizing that in reality it is a matter of “seeking the will of God together with another person, that is, seeking the good to be done.”
again with the neologisms .
again with the neologisms . . .
is that a sacramental sacrifice?
I can sympathize with your
I can sympathize with your worry about not being able to preach. I was kicked out of our pulpit a couple months for asserting that I had been fired from my job in the parish about 6 years ago and for acknowledging the Pastor and I don't get along like bosom budies. Nothing about theology or heresey.
Be that as it may, I think that Fr. Tilley is on the right track. The Holy Spirit just promises that the Church is protected from error in matters theological. The H.S. does not promise to protect the Church from men in high places being so afraid as to only go outside at noon when there are no shadows.
This is a separate topic but
This is a separate topic but your example, right wrong or indifferent, is why deacons should never be hired as employees of the parish where they minister.
Tilley's comments are right
Tilley's comments are right on target. We will find the truth for the Faith, not a "fixed, immovable" position, but in the church's continual development of our understanding of an infinite God.
God is God now and forever
God is God now and forever His Truth is unchanging what changes is our individual growth in sanctity.
How do we grow in holiness? Receive the sacraments with gratitude grow your faith with prayer and spiritual reading and if you are a doubting theologian turn to Saint Thomas who is a wonderful role model He questioned and Jesus responded.The Church has always accomodated the questionning mind .We would never have had an Aquinas or the Jesuits for that matterif the Church was against intellectual pursuit. However it is also true that Mother Church must protect the faithful from errors which can arise from human reason becoming misled or twisted by that old master of smoke and mirrors the devil. In times past the Church has had to correct errors like arianism. gnosticism, modernism. This continues to the present day.
God is Love Love thy enemy
God is Love
Love thy enemy
The first and greatest word
The first and greatest word of Our Holy Father Saint Benedict's little Rule for Monks is:
Ausculta
Let us listen to our theologians carefully as they faithfully repeat for us the great mysteries of our Faith, of our past, of our present signs of the times, of our ecclesial and eschatalogical future. Only thus may we enter the profundities of our Faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ, who commands us above all to Love one another.
See those Christians; how they love one another.
Love thy enemy.
Judge not.
Read our Reverend Father Richard McBrien.
and Listen to what the Spirit is telling the Church today, how to fulfill the Law of Christ by Loving one another.
"I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat."
Hearing our theologians teaches us how, now, today, and always.
Ausculta
and do not sleep in this present Olivette.
I have no problem listening
I have no problem listening to Faithful Catholic Theologians, however theologians who are advocating disloyalty to Christ's mystical body should be exposed. Loving one another does not mean giving in to disunity & heresy.
"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived." CARITAS IN VERITATE - Pope Benedict XVI
readers might be interested
readers might be interested to learn that vertigras is an obsessed stalking troll who after plaguing my reviews and comments daily for years on amazon.com and finally harassed me so much I despair of contributing there anymore and recently quit there for good, has now discovered me here at home on NCRonline and is settling in to harass me for years daily here.
It's kind of like that light-switching scene in Fatal Attraction . . .
DEO GRATIAS we have alert censors here upon this wonderful NCR site, unlike amazon which, after establishing guidelines, operates under the watchmaker model.
"Only in truth does charity
"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived" - B16.
Such being the case, we've seen neither truth nor charity in our hierarchs, including both JPII (ignoring the pleas and concerns of Maciel's victims) and B16 (crucifying theologians with whom he disagreed).
Thank you for bringing this observation to our attention.
But that is exactly the
But that is exactly the problem: in your case, you decide who is a legitimate Catholic theologian and who is not. How do you know? And I am not asking that in a sarcastic manner, but I do want to challenge you to prove what you mean in stating that there are (Catholic?) theologians who "are advocating disloyalty to Christ's mystical body..." Exactly who - and what statements - are you referring to? If we can't deal with facts (truths) about such allegations, how can we continue to build and strengthen our Church in the world? Please remember that Jesus himself never spoke so harshly to anyone: not the Roman soldiers who kills him, not to those who derided him, not even to those who said they loved him but abandoned him when he needed them the most. So carry on your dialogue but make it Christ-like, please.
Thank you my brother, Frère
Thank you my brother, Frère Charles, for reminding us of Benedict's wisdom: to first listen attentively, and then to live in charity toward 'the other' without irritable murmuring.
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For St. Benedict, true obedience of heart without resentment, could not occur in an environment of group-think, wherein we only listen to those with whom we already agree. If we have no openness of heart toward our brothers and sisters we have seen, and so are unwilling to listen to their thoughts and concerns, — then how can we have an open, listening heart toward the God we have not seen?
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It requires deeply rooted humility to respect the dignity and worth of another and his contribution — to see the face of Christ — perhaps disguised as the monk in charge of the kitchen pots. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
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In our mutual holy father,
Aileen — Frances (of Rome), OblSB
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Ut et omnibus glorificetur Deus.
Thank you very much for your
Thank you very much for your kindness, Sister Oblate Frances of Rome.
And when we hear a fresh and challenging voice saying things unthought, let us recall our reverend Sister Joan Chittister's recent column citing the Holy Rule where it states: "perhaps for this reason they have come . . ."
DEO GRATIAS
(and hey, how did you do those cool italics anyway!)
Frère Charles, It's HTML
Frère Charles,
It's HTML code "em" and "/em" with your word or phrase in the middle. Use the side carets (< >) instead of quotation marks... See the HTML tags listed on the composition page for examples.
Hope that helps :)
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