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PDF versionShame on SNAP's Lawyers
by Michael Sean Winters on Sep. 14, 2011
Let me stipulate that if you were sexually abused as a child, by a cleric or an uncle or a neighbor, you are allowed to be angry for the rest of your life. You are allowed to make inflammatory statements. You are allowed to pursue justice in whatever venue you wish. You are allowed to hate any institution that failed to take action against the perpetrator of the horrific crime. That is why this post is not entitled “Shame on SNAP.”
The lawyers for SNAP, however, have no such morally righteous indignation, nor does the press corps that covers them. The decision to seek the intervention of the International Criminal Court in the matter of clergy sex abuse in the Catholic Church is outrageous. It is an outrage against the Church. It is an outrage against the victims. And, it is an outrage against those victims the ICC was established to defend.
The ICC was established in 1998 in the wake of the genocide in Rwanda and the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. Attorney Pam Spees of the Center for Constitutional Rights said yesterday, “What we are saying is that the crimes of sexual violence within the church context are widespread, certainly. But they are also being committed on a systematic basis, in the sense that it is the policies and practices of the church and church leadership which allow these things to continue.” Spees is undoubtedly correct that the leaders of the Church were slow to come to grips with the moral enormity in their midst. They were confronted with horrific deeds and they did not react with horror. But, she is playing a shell game. In Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, the crimes were ordered by political leaders. No one, so far as I know, has suggested that Pope Benedict XVI ordered any priest to rape a child. There is a difference, a moral difference, between a systematic attempt to slaughter a people and an effort to cover up the crimes of one’s subordinates. So far as I know, no one has been charged at the ICC with trying to cover up the genocide in Rwanda or the ethnic cleansing in Sarajevo. Those who have been charged perpetrated the crimes.
Clearly, Church leaders tried again and again to cover up the crimes and that is, in itself, outrageous. But, it is also a fairly common moral instinct. Teenagers hide dirty magazines under their beds. To cite a case that is more on point, Bill Clinton lied about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky. He was wrong to lie and I am sure his motives were mixed. Most men who cheat on their wives do not tell their wives about their affairs. In Clinton’s case, his pollster advised him that he would not be able to remain in office unless he lied. Clinton was, at that time, achieving much good for the country. Should he have risked throwing all that good away in order to come clean about his affair? The issue is at least a bit murky. I suspect, and more than suspect, that those bishops who covered up the crimes of their priests were motivated by similar concerns, which is not to excuse the cover-up. It is to put it into context and to conclude that the context is different from the context for ethnic cleansing or genocide.
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Put differently, does anyone really believe the analogy between Pope Benedict and Slobodan Milosevic holds water? This legal effort to get the ICC involved not only holds out false hopes for the victims of clergy sex abuse, it is an offense against the thousands upon thousands of dead, maimed and raped victims of Milosevic’s crimes as well as the hundreds of thousands of victims of genocide in Rwanda. To treat other crimes like those crimes is to diminish the unique evil which considered rape and murder a means to an end.
On NPR, the report on All Things Considered did not, in fact, consider all things. The report was entirely biased. They quoted Ms. Spees and they quoted David Clohessy of SNAP. They did not quote a single scholar or historian to rebut the charges. (Dear NPR editors – you can contact me if you want someone to rebut these charges.) Clohessy lamented the fact that the Church lacks checks and balances. Well, I certainly believe the Church must institute procedures that assure accountability. But, forgive me for pointing out that we Catholics believe the office of bishop was instituted by Christ, eighteen hundred years before the idea of checks and balances was introduced at the time the U.S. Constitution was being framed. Models for civilian governance are not, prima facie, applicable to the constitution of the Church.
On that same program, Ms. Spees said: “You see, over periods of years, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger [now Pope Benedict] either refusing to defrock offending priests, even when the bishops are telling him over and over again this harm is being done, there is more risk of harm — and he’s leaving them there, or he is moving them.” Actually, I do not see that. I have looked at the documents that made their way into a New York Times story that alleged Pope Benedict’s personal involvement in the cover-up, but as I wrote at the time, the documents did not reveal what the Times thought they did. Does Ms. Spees have other documents she would like to share? Might NPR have thought to mention that the Times story had been challenged?
Of course, the Church must deal with sex abuse and with the cover-up of sex abuse differently from the way it is doing so. Cardinal Rigali should have had the decency to resign the day the second Grand Jury Report was issued in February. (This column called for his resignation.) Failing that, he should have been removed immediately. The revelations of financial payments from the Legionaries of Christ to Cardinal Angelo Sodano, reported by Jason Berry and published by this newspaper, should have been enough to cashier Sodano from all ecclesiastic offices and sinecures. It is shocking that Bishop Finn is still bishop of Kansas City-St. Joseph, despite his failure to take appropriate action against one of his priests who was breaking the law. It is shocking, too, that Bishop Bruskewitz is still the Bishop of Lincoln and Bishop Vasa is the bishop of Santa Rosa despite the fact that these prelates refuse to participate in the audits of their compliance procedures. Until and unless the Church takes more vigorous actions against those bishops who cover up sex abuse, her leaders have no one to blame but themselves when others suspect that have still not grasped the horror of clergy sex abuse.
I hope the ICC will decline to take this case. Not all horrific deeds are like all other horrific deeds. Not all cover-ups are like all other cover-ups. Crimes against humanity should be a charge reserved for the likes of Milosevic. Still, the Church can expect more of the same so long as you have an in-coming archbishop saying that reading the reports of the deeds of his predecessors made him sick to his stomach. There is rot in the hierarchy that Pope Benedict needs to rip out. But, that does not get the lawyers at the Center for Constitutional Rights off the hook either. This suit is wrong-headed and reflects a morally skewed view of what constitutes a crime against humanity. The dead at Srebrenica did not live to tell their tale nor seek redress for the evil inflicted upon them. That fact alone should have made the lawyers think twice before leveling this outrageous charge against Pope Benedict.
Thank you, Michael.
Thank you, Michael. Unfortunately, every time we put SNAP's name in print, we serve their ulterior motives: to survive at all costs by exploiting the tragedies suffered by little children a long time ago.
Shame on you, Michael
Shame on you, Michael Winters! You should know better.
There is NO shame for advocating for an investigation by the International Criminal Court at the Hague in the name of thousands, maybe millions, of victims of rape and sodomy at the hands of Catholic priests and bishops.
Where else can survivors go for justice, redress of grievances and due process, Winters? Certainly, not from the Catholic Church whose corrupt hierarchs are criminally complicit in the sexual exploitation of children and vulnerable adults.
Winters is using a straw man argument in asserting that survivors and their advocates have contended that there is a moral equivalency between Joseph Ratzinger and Slobodan Milosevic. This kind of “moral relativism” is usually reserved to popes and cardinals alone.
If the Catholic Church were truly interested in investigating these human rights violations by their priests and bishops, if the Vatican were really interested in justice and reparations for survivors, the Catholic Church would ask the United Nations to institute a Peace and Reconciliation Commission with real authority to compel cooperation and participation from the hierarchs and priests.
A Peace & Reconciliation Commission could be modeled on the one that Nobel Laureate Desmond Tutu lead in South Africa that investigated and prosecuted crimes committed during the apartheid regime.
I suggested this very thing to Cardinal Levada years ago when I was chair of the SF review board. He just derisively dismissed the idea because “the church has already done so much. What more could people ask of us?”
People are still calling out for justice and accountability.
If Joseph Ratzinger and the hierarchs are as innocent as they claim, they have nothing to fear from an investigation by the International Criminial Court.
Michael Sean Winters once
Michael Sean Winters once again minimizes the institutional assault against children and vulnerable persons by the Roman Catholic Church. The only way to stop the destruction of souls by clergy is to hold the Church accountable, and presently there is not accountability. Winters claims that the Church considers the office of bishop as an institution of Christ. That might be, but when bishops are not accountable and when there are no checks and balances on their leadership, they become entities unto themselves.
Unless and until bishops are held accountable, they will continue to cover-up, obfuscate, deny, lie, and keep children and vulnerable persons at risk.
"You are allowed to pursue
"You are allowed to pursue justice in whatever venue you wish."
Seems as though this is what is being done. Rightfully so--the dead couldn't care less. Whatever is takes to get the Vatican's attention and to implement justice. Did you have as much 'outrage' when the Vatican expanded their list of "grave crimes" to include women's ordination?: "Unrelated to the sexual abuse crisis, the revisions also add several other offenses to the list of "grave crimes" subject to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (and thus to the expedited penalties the congregation can hand out). They include crimes against the faith, such as heresy, apostasy and schism; recording or broadcast of the sacrament of confession; and the attempted ordination of women." http://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/vatican-revises-church-law-sex-abuse
Attempting to open a dialogue about women's ordination is enough of a crime to get a bishop removed from office............
I notice covering up for pedophile priests isn't a 'grave crime', placing children in danger as Finn did isn't on their list of grave crimes...........that would be an outrage. The tone of this article seems to reflect a mindset that suggests a special status for the church and its doings because "forgive me for pointing out that we Catholics believe the office of bishop was instituted by Christ"............
Cheers,
"Allowed to hate"?
"Allowed to hate"?
Not to diminish the serious
Not to diminish the serious sin of the RCC but Please examine the Jehovah's Witnesses who go door to door and come on our property.
Jehovah's Witnesses pedophiles.
Many court documents and news events prove that Jehovah's Witnesses require two witnesses when a child comes forward with allegations of molestation within the congregation. Such allegations have customarily been treated as sins instead of crimes and are only reported to authorities when it is required to do so by law, (which varies by state).
It has also been shown that child molesters within the organization usually have not been identified to the congregation members or the public at large. These people engage in a door to door ministry, possibly exposing children to pedophiles.
The Watchtower corporation has paid out millions in settlement money already.
-- Danny Haszard abuse victim
FMI
http://www.dannyhaszard.com
The proximate cause here is
The proximate cause here is the cover-up of of these crimes by the Vatican (and let there be no doubt, there has been cover-ups in Rome. Sources on request). The sham apologies, non-action, and the sheer idea that some think that they are superior and un-accountable, has led to this action. The excellent work done by many intelligent clergy has drowned in the sea of Roman immorality. Simple - resolve the original issue, and everything else (including the lawyers) is resolved too.
Yes, please tell share with
Yes, please tell share with us your sources!
Can Winters cite even one
Can Winters cite even one instance, ever, in which even one document about even one predator priest was turned over to even one police agency by even one Vatican official?
Outside of a tiny handful of Western nations, can Winters cite even one instance, ever, in which even one document about even one predator priest was turned over to even one police agency by even one bishop?
Outside of a tiny handful of examples (Law, Groer), can Winters cite even one instance, ever, in which even one non-offending church employee who ignored, concealed or enabled child sex crimes was ever clearly disciplined by a church supervisor for such wrongdoing?
Who knows how many priests, nuns, seminarians, brothers, bishops and other church staff are sexually violating kids today. What would you have us do, Michael, to stop this?
There are entire continents - Asia, Africa, South America - where bishops haven't even promised to remove pedophiles from ministry, much less begun to honor those promises. What would you have us do, Michael?
David Clohessy
Director, SNAP
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests
SNAPclohessy@aol.com
314-503-0003
"What would you have us do,
"What would you have us do, Michael?" Stop staging publicity stunts and get down to the business of healing the church, including its violated children, which will never take place as long as you put this in the hands of lawyers.And stop baiting the simple-minded with comments like "there are entire continents" who don't conform to your expectations. You may also want to give some thought to the way Jesus healed victims, which didn't have much to do with lawsuits.
@ Sr. Rita: My sainted
@ Sr. Rita:
My sainted sixth-grade teacher, Sister Mary Adelaide, would frequently quote Jesus, but always added her own delicious caveat:
""I have come to bring you the Truth. And the Truth will set you free." But first, it will make you miserable!"
I would venture that you are still in the miserable stage, Sr. Rita.
It's SNAP's job to advocate for survivors. It's yours and my job to "heal." Let's not confuse the two.
Of course this is all about money and power because the hierarchs have always made it so. The hierarchs, always protecting their political and financial hegemony over the church, have brought this on themselves.
Don't blame, and seek to further stigmatize, SNAP and survivors for seeking justice in the only forum that has been made available to them: the courts around the world.
Sr. Rita, you should go and be present in a courtroom, as I have, when the Catholic Church's defense is usually mounted by a phalanx of rapacious attorneys who use every legal means, no matter how destructive and thuggish, to personally destroy a survivor who has the temerity to seek justice for his or her rape and sodomy at the hands of a priest when the survivor was just a child.
Then, Sr. Rita, maybe you wouldn't be so quick to judge SNAP, the best friend any survivor ever had.
And Rita, as Paul VI once said, "If you want peace, work for justice."
It is impossible to heal the
It is impossible to heal the church or the victims, who have been sexually abused and re-abused, as long as the sex crimes against innocent children are still being covered up, and no church officials have been held accountable for empowering and enabling these crimes to happen.
So hopefully anyone, who has been harmed by clergy, teachers, employees, or volunteers, will contact law enforcement no matter how long ago the abuse happened, do not report to the diocese, they are not the proper officials to be investigating crimes against children.
We are supporting the prosecutor for the "International Criminal Court" in the Hague, to investigate the evidence against the pope and 3 high ranking Vatican officials to be held accountable for crimes against humanity. This is the only way to get this abuse and cover up stopped and to protect kids today.
The International Criminal Court recognizes rape, sexual violence, assault and torture as crimes against humanity. It also provides for individual criminal liability for those with command or superior responsibility over those who directly commit such crimes.
To all victims, employees, whistle blowers, who are still scared and silent, there is hope..! If you have evidence or documents, please send them to the prosecutor of the world court in The Hague, Netherlands or the CCR, http://ccrjustice.org/ , so that it too can be turned over to the ICC prosecutor.
Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, +1-636-433-2511
snapjudy@gmail.com
"Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests"
http://www.snapnetwork.org/
Speaking on behalf of the
Speaking on behalf of the folks in Burkina Faso, we don't have any problems here, so we find your comment about entire continents a bit naive and self-serving. I also hear good things about Pago Pago. When you stop generalizing, someone just might take you seriously.
And you do not believe the
And you do not believe the charges of child abuse by the Church should be taken seriously?? Please!
Does anyone maintain a list
Does anyone maintain a list of Church employees who were fired for reporting illicit activity? Being a whistle blower is dangerous to your job.
I was raised in a catholic
I was raised in a catholic college and while i have rejected religion (i am atheist) i can tell you in all the time i spent around catholic colleges I’ve never seen or experienced any such abuses. I do not doubt these happen but they are not systematic and not condoned by the church, even though they would tend to hide any incident in an effort to keep a good name for the church. As a family would try to shield any of its members from persecution if anyone had done anything wrong. That’s probably not acceptable nowadays, however, just to put all that in prospective when you talk abuse in my life I have actually experienced almost anything: parental abuse and beatings, sexual abuse and poverty. The only thing I did not experience is a full scale war (even though I came close to that) and to be frank while the preaching bored me to death, the church was the only one that actually was trying to help. To turn the church into a criminal organization that should face trial for crimes against humanity is really an offence to the spirit of the church, its operations around the world and to victims of wars and persecution.
If you want to stretch the context to that point then we should take most of the governments and societies in this world to trial including the usa. The atomic bombs during wwii is definitely an example of crime against humanity as it is the invasion of Iraq that cause the death of hundreds of thousands of people on the basis of fantasy. Can you tell me Mr Director of SNAP how many times a member of the usa government has been persecuted on any of these charges or for ordering any illegal secret operation like gladio?
If you think that the Pope is not above justice then I believe no government should be above justice.
With regard to abuse in
With regard to abuse in Catholic colleges, most attendees in college are no longer children and most can fend for themselves. So it would make sense that you did not experience or even observe such activity in a Catholic college. Preditors are evil but not stupid. If you still maintain your Catholic faith,at least the church gave you something. Good luck.
keep up the good work, David.
keep up the good work, David. Michael only plays to his limited access, the bishops he wants access to for his job, and the rest of us are on to his game.
keep up courageously your good work and bring the criminals to trial. This has about as much of a chance as getting Dick Cheney to trial, but keep up your very good and blessed work, please!
Jesus calls us to protect the vulnerable, not the powerful, no matter whose access we find our paycheck requires.
Helping the widows and orphans in their distress, this is religion pure and simple
not comforting the comfortable, which is self serving hypocrisy
Disagree. To the extent that
Disagree. To the extent that the Vatican hides behind its diplomatic status to avoid responsibility for how it neglected to act against bishops which were in fact its employees us the extent to which using the ICC is justified. Rome could make it go away by acknowledging the fact of its control over bishops and begin both writing checks and disciplining them for their actions or lack thereof. To the extent it did these things in our names, we must repudiate their actions and hold them to account, else our silence makes us as responsible for every act of child rape.
You are so lost. SNAP's
You are so lost.
SNAP's lawyers are protecting the rights of the thousands and thousands and thousands of children that were raped by priests in the Catholic church.
You don't understand the word "outrage".
Its an outrage that priests raped children. Its an outrage that bishops moved known rapists around, and covered it up in a consistent, world-wide manner approved or orchestrated by the pope. Its an outrage that the Catholic church concealed the truth and lied about it. Its an outrage that the Catholic church disparaged victims when they came forward, and its and outrage that they convinced their sheepish congregation to do the same.
Its an outrage that they did it all in the name of God.
Its an outrage that anyone defends the Catholic church. They are the world's largest pedophile protection program, and they will hopefully go to jail on earth for it.
God will have no forgiveness for those that committed child rape and those that defended them, despite the fact that the false idols in the church told you He would.
Sorry, but it's you who are
Sorry, but it's you who are lost. I was molested by a priest, so I know it happens. I priest -- who is now my best friens -- help me to report it to the frist's superiors when I told him more than 30 years after it had occurred. The only thing I asked for was that the "man" be placed in a position where he could no longer have contact with children, which he was. He admitted what he had done to his superiors. It was long past the statute of limitations, so prosecution could not have been pursued. I asked for no money from the Order. He has since died.
My friend was accussed of molesting a boy more than 30 years prior to the accusation. He is a multiply convicted felon, who saw a show featuring the SNAP lawyer on TV while incarcerated. On that show, the lawyer claimed he had won $600,000 for a victim. On release, he contacted this lawyer, who accepted this case without any investigation on his part. Had he investigated, even sperficially, he would have found that my friend had been out of the country for several months prior to the day he claims to have been molested, and for over a year afterwards. He claims to have been molested on a specific date, and my friend has a lecture room full of witnesses as to where he was on that date and time. But neither the lawyer nor SNAP did any investigating prior to suing my friend and the diocese -- interestingly enough, for $600,000 and a set of tools to set up a shop in. My friend was cleared by the Diocese, and by law enforcement authorities. The Diocese automatically calls law enforcement in whenever such an accusation is made, however outalndish. SNAP dragged my friend's name through the mud for nothing, but they sure got their publicity! I think my friend should sue them for slander and defamation of character, but all he wants is for this "man" to publicly recant. So far, SNAP has offered no apology.
I went to SNAP asking if they knew anyone in my area where I could go for counseling. When I told them I wasn't interested in suing the Order, the only thing I heard from them has been solicitations for donations. They WON'T be getting any from me. I wonder how much of the money they get actually goes to the victim, and how much goes to the lawyer and SNAP itself.
Did you know SNAP is under indictment in Federal District Court in at least two different districts for Obstruction of Justice? While they once may have been there to help victims, they definately aren't now. They want money and publicity. Only.
No, Michael. The ICC is very
No, Michael. The ICC is very specifically there to provide a forum in which the people of the world at large those who use the notion of national sovereignty to evade accountability for their crimes. Either because they've ignored their own laws or because things which all of humanity knows are crimes are not, in fact, crimes in those jurisdictions.
You create a false comparison when you claim that any analogy is being made to genocide. The ICC also has jurisdiction over "crimes against humanity." SNAP (and not just its lawyers) are asserting that the systematic enabling of sexual abuse of children and vulnerable adults by the Vatican's international employees is just that.
You also create a false divide when you give your "permission" (oh thanks so much, abuse survivors really feel much better now that Michael Sean Winters has given them permission) to be angry and to act on that anger. But call SNAP and it's lawyers to task for filing with the ICC. SNAP and its lawyers are the voice of many (not all) abuse survivors.
This seems to me to be more of a case of a "how dare they" response.
Michael, SNAP isn't suing God. It's suing the Vatican. There's a big difference. In fact, bigger than we'd previously though, judging by their behavior in these matters.
G Bullough your blog is right
G Bullough your blog is right on. The attitude of "allowing" someone defines a box in which they can live, God is working on this don't interrupt Him.
Many bloggers express their disgust about the sexual abuse. However it appears to me that they blame the victim. In my dealing with my abuse issues with my family I was interesting in knowing what impact my being abused had on them. The family had expressed concern for me and I wanted to explore the isssue with them. They wondered if the reason it happened to me and not them was whether I was of inferior moral character.
I think all members of the Catholic family need to examine how the sexual abuse issue impacted them. Do they think that this is just a publicity stunt?
An attempt to make money? Are the abused of inferior moral character?
Mr. Winters clearly states in
Mr. Winters clearly states in this article that the authority of the church "should have" handled some things in ways that "would have been better." His words are true. Had those problems been handled properly in the beginning, there would be no problems today. Shame on the authority of the church for creating this crisis and failing to resolve it. Were it not for the survivors and the attorneys acting on their behalf, the abuse of children and vulnerable abuse would continue unchecked as it has through the past centuries. Winters' essay comes through like a Casper Milquetoast justifying the rape of children to protect the bottom line of a corrupt institution.
How can anyone not feel
How can anyone not feel horror at the things done by a handfull of errant priests? It terrifies me that the Church appears to want to cover things like this up. In my mind, the Vatican controls the Church and should be totally proactive in dealing with these cases. I am amazed that so much is swept under the rug by the Vatican. May God help us all who believe in honesty and justice!
The church's reaction and
The church's reaction and that of its current leader is simply an act of pure arrogance and the exercise of power and control supported by its vast wealth, neither of which is appropriate in an institution it claims to be.
You liken Church leaders'
You liken Church leaders' covering up of child sexual abuse by priests to teenagers hiding dirty magazines, Clinton lying about Lewinsky, and men not telling their wives about their affairs?! Hello? Priests and religious RAPED, SODOMIZED and, yes, TORTURED children. Priests and religious perpetrated evil against innocents, many of whom have not survived. Tragically, suicide has been the result for many victims, whose torment has been too much to bear. (Five of Robert K. Larson's victims alone are known to have suicided.) Sexual abuse of children by priests and religious is still going on around the globe.
Dirty magazines may be embarrassing and affairs shameful, but child sexual abuse is just plain evil-as are genocide and ethnic cleansing. SNAP's efforts to involve the ICC sounds a loud and appropriate alarm. Your outrage is misplaced, sir.
"It used to be that nothing
"It used to be that nothing was permitted but everything forgiven now everything is permitted but nothing forgiven." Cardinal George.
No truer statements were ever spoken and the professional child abuse victims making claims 40 years old will never forgive since to do so would surrender their power. And say what you want, but to not forgive is simply inimical to Christianity.
That the left wing press even covered the PR stunt by SNAP is an indication of how how profoundly sick our society has become. Nothing today is as hated as the Catholic church and the sex abuse of 40 years ago is only a subterfuge by the left to attempt to destroy the church for the church has already solved this problem.
Re Cardinal George comment -
Re Cardinal George comment - a simple admission that it could have been true could start the process of forgiveness. Some effort to review the life and ministry of those now past through those now alive who knew the person might provide some basis for the "could have been" possibility. The divide of survivors from the Church BEGINS when the Church denies even the possibility of truth in a survivor's claims. If it takes an international institution to pressure the Church into realizing it ought to do this, then go for it. (I'll always remember the initial "how dare you say such a thing" response to the clerical misconduct (yes it was not sexual abuse) I reported.)
Is it a crime to cover up a
Is it a crime to cover up a criminal act? Is having sexual relations with a minor a criminal act? Is having sexual relations with dozens and dozens of minors multiple times a criminal act?
Covering up the act of having sexual relations with a minor is what then?
Is it a crime, or is it instead not a crime?
Do Bishops answer to the Vatican?
Do Bishops report to the Vatican on clergy deviance?
Do Bishops follow directions from the Vatican?
What directions, if any, have been given in the last 30 years?
Can we really ever know the answers to the last five questions?
Assuming we can't, is everything then O.K.?
Mr Winters, How dare you try
Mr Winters,
How dare you try to justify, the rot and corruption that is inherent in the very structure and design of the Catholic Church.
How dare you try to pin a "shame on you" on SNAP, or anyone involved in bringing the Vatican and Benedict to answer for their crimes against humanity. And Jesus wept.........
So, the only people allowed
So, the only people allowed to feel outrage are those that were sexually abused as a child, by a cleric or an uncle or a neighbor? Sorry, that doesn’t work for me. We are talking about atrocious crimes and cover-up over the course of decades. With every passing year that the Church hierarchy denies their complicity and culpability, my outrage grows. How repugnant that Catholics should be compelled to overlook and forget these offenses against innocents, committed by those who “dedicated their lives to Christ”; but otherwise Catholics should follow all the rules. It appears that SNAP victims and their lawyers have gone to the ICC to seek justice because the Church is showing no sign of changing course. Sadly, Church leadership chooses not to follow its own teaching to confess sins and seek forgiveness. I’m right there with SNAP and the lawyers. Maybe this is what it takes. The Church only moved to reform (glacially) after Martin Luther called out the abuses of the Catholic hierarchy. At that time, millions of Catholics could not contain their outrage and left the Church of their forefathers. Look around. It’s happening again, though it doesn’t have to continue. Those that remain are sustained by the work and faith of the clergy and laity faithful to Jesus—unfortunately under the authority of a leader who ignores the sins within.
This is a tremendous opportunity for the Pope as a world religious authority, to finally practice what he preaches: specifically, to seek forgiveness for what he knew or should have known. That’s all we need and desperately want: a humble but virtuous leader who provides an example for the rest of us to follow. It’s never too late. Peter (the first pope) repented his betrayal of Christ and went on to lead a history-changing religious tradition. Pope Benedict, can you not do the same?
It doesn't really matter if
It doesn't really matter if you approve of SNAP's actions. The Pope is head of state for the Vatican. That means he can be held accountable.
First you say victims have the right to be hurt, mad and pursue justice. Then you get mad at them for pursuing justice. Are they allowed to pursue justice or not? If the charge doesn't hold up then the ICC will dismiss it.
Covering up a crime is NOT OUTRAGEOUS. It is a crime. Also, regardless of what anyone thinks of Bill Clinton, he didn't sexually assault Monica Lewinsky. So I don't see it as a valid comparison.
I really doubt SNAP would be going to these lengths if the Church had taken responsibility before now. We wouldn't even be discussing this if they had stepped forward and lived up to what they teach. It would have been resolved years ago.
It doesn't matter if I approve of what SNAP is doing or not. You only take actions like this when the normal channels don't work. With the Church and this scandal, normal methods don't work.
Maybe SNAP would drop it if Catholics stood up in mass and made the Church become accountable.
On a personal note I came forward to an order about something that happened to me. The way I was treated was beyond horrible. I especially liked the comments of one priest in the order, saying I was either making it all up or I had wanted it to happen. The second they realized I wasn't going to sue they stopped caring. So I can understand SNAP pursuing justice any way they can.
Rape is serious enough of an
Rape is serious enough of an offense to be classified as a war crime. The RCC facilitated the rape of thousands, more truthfully hundreds of thousands, of children, teens and young people around the globe. I am glad our SNAP lawyers have taken this bold step toward holding this organization accountable.
You have no idea how deep and how ugly this is. We have only scratched the surface. The secret files in each diocese will reveal crimes worse than what has been revealed so far, which is bad enough: the systematic cover up of the rape of children.
The doctrines of mental reservation (the right of clergy to lie, even under oath, in order to protect the church from "scandal" and the much-publicized criminal solicitations need to be examined under law.
Just think of all the pedophile priests who have been funneled to poor, developing nations, where they hold sway over orphanages and schools. Then tell me this is not a crime against humanity.
Janet Clark, author of Blind Faith
Western Iowa SNAP leader
You have been got to be
You have been got to be kidding. Is this supposed to be a defense for abuse?
I can see that the catholic
I can see that the catholic stance on child abuse is widely spread. Even murderers and hard criminals put pedophiles on the lowest rungs of prison hierarchy, making pedophiles requiring special protection to stay alive in prisons. Not so in the catholic church. How any adult can stand up and say that crimes against the most vulnerable in our society would of course make them angry and hateful but that it's not as serious a crime as murder is beyond me. The most vulnerable members of our society put in their care in complete trust by parents, damaged for life and possibly turned into future abusers themselves? At least the dead have relief from their suffering while these victims lives with theirs day after day. Shame on the law people trying to get it cleared up but not on the abusers? No shame on those who protects and hides them?
The real tragedy in all this is that many of those abusers probably were abused themselves as children and it wouldn't surprise me if this is an old tradition of systematic child abuse within the catholic church that's been hidden from sight that's surfacing. More and more cases are exposing the criminal hypocrisy within the ranks that's taken upon themselves to lecture others on moral issues. The vatican is looking more and more as a viper's next of moral corruption and hypocricy.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/top-advisor-to-pope-on-pedophile-pr...
i have no sympathy for any christian 'beliefs' in these matters... no more than the church respects beliefs outside its own dogma. The church has international reaches and since the protection of criminals crosses borders these cases belong in an international court.
I would also like to draw attention to an international ban on the catholic church, anglican church and united church from native lands by elders as being proven guilty for continuing participation of systematic genocide of native populations and selling native land to corporations.
http://itccs.org/2011/09/15/public-banishment-order/
Come on!! Listen to all the voices being raised in protest to these crimes and stop protecting the criminals! Weed them out! Clean up the act! An unwillingness to do just that suggests to me that the situation is worse than I thought and that maybe his pope-iness himself doesn't have a clear consciousness regarding this subject? After all, he's been a major force in forging the protection of these peeps. Hmmmm...... what am I to believe...?
Do I talk jibberish and coming with horrifying accusations? Well, take the bull by the horns and clear this mess up. PROVE me wrong. I dare you.
In the Early Church the
In the Early Church the Elders in the congregation corrected the priest, after the first time he may have been given a second chance but if he did not shape up, he was shipped out. The bishops have been shipping them around and not out because that was the policy of the CDF under Cardinal Ratzingerand the higher you were the more you were protected like the infamous Marcial whose own enablers are still in power, even after Pope Benedict supposedly ordered the Order's restructuring.Note below all same men remain in power even while at Maciel's double lifed deathbed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9tyCCsJe4&feature=player_embedded
The abuses committed against
The abuses committed against women and children in Ireland concern much more than sexual violence: torture, child slavery, baby trafficking, and starvation.
The abuse of thousands of innocent children in State and church run institutions in Ireland amounted to torture, a scathing report: In Plain Sight from Amnesty has found. Youngsters suffered decades of inhuman and degrading treatment by being brutalised, beaten and starved, the human rights watchdog said. The horrific details of neglect, physical abuse and rape were revealed in recent years in four sickening State ordered reports – Ferns, Ryan, Murphy and Cloyne. Colm O’Gorman, executive director of Amnesty International Ireland, said: “The abuse of tens of thousands of Irish children is perhaps the greatest human rights failure in the history of the state.
Much of the abuse described in the Ryan Report meets the legal definition of torture under international human rights law. Children were tortured. They were brutalised, beaten, starved and abused. There has been little justice for these victims. Those who failed as guardians, civil servants, clergy, gardaí and members of religious orders have avoided accountability.”
Its five key findings were:
No clear lines of responsibility make true accountability impossible. The abuse of children continued unchecked, with no system in residential institutions. State authorities also failed in their duty to monitor residential institutions, or to act when abuses by agents of the Catholic Church in communities came to light.
The law must protect and apply to all members of society equally. Children who were placed in residential institutions were branded as criminals as a result of the court committal process, while the majority of perpetrators of abuse have not been held to account by that same criminal justice system. Very few perpetrators were convicted and no charges have been laid against those in positions of authority in the Catholic Church who concealed crimes.
Recognition of children’s human rights must be strengthened. Amnesty said the abuses in the reports can be categorised as torture, under human rights law. They also demonstrated children’s rights to private and family life, the right to a fair trial and the right to be free from slavery and forced labour were contravened, as was their right to education and to physical and mental health.
Public attitudes matter. Individual attitudes matter. Fear, an unwillingness and an inability to question agents of the Church, and disbelief of the testimony of victims until recent times indicate that wider societal attitudes had a significant role to play in allowing abuse to continue.
The State must operate on behalf of the people, not on behalf of interest groups. The reports showed how the State had a deferential relationship with the Catholic Church. The complaints of parents, children and lay workers about problems and abuses in residential institutions were dismissed by officials, while the reputation of religious orders was defended by Ministers and TDs in the Dáil.
http://bit.ly/in_plain_sight
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