A Vatican literacy quiz

I got 'em all correct, John. You have made a good point, and done so elegantly! Thanks for all your fine reporting and analysis.

Like so many Vatican,Vatican-sponsored or Vatican apologist efforts to demean
critics within and outside the official monarchical structure of the Roman Church, the literary quiz of John Allen (apologist) is much ado about nothing.
I was surprised at the item about how many Bishops participate in a synod. Next we'll have to know how many angels fit on the head of a pin. Anyone unable to answer this should not address and of the issues of the Roman Church.

I would suggest that Sen. Moynihan's comment applies to those within and outside the church---defenders, apologists, critics, and the like.

Like so many Vatican,Vatican-sponsored or Vatican apologist efforts to demean
critics within and outside the official monarchical structure of the Roman Church, the literary quiz of John Allen (apologist) is much ado about nothing.
I was surprised at the item about how many Bishops participate in a synod. Next we'll have to know how many angels fit on the head of a pin. Anyone unable to answer this should not address and of the issues of the Roman Church.

I would suggest that Sen. Moynihan's comment applies to those within and outside the church---defenders, apologists, critics, and the like.

Eight our of ten. Not bad. Guess I get my license.

Thank you, John Allen. appreciate you keeping us on our toes. I missed #10.
Pax

I only got 7 of 10. (Who ever heard of James Harvey?)
But about #9. I knew of this canon, and so the answer is "false", but a reasonable person could argue that this provision is no provision at all. What good is a resignation that no one can accept? It's part of the "The Pope is judged by no one" pretense that I feel sure grieves the Holy Spirit.

5 out of 10. I was pretty sure about 3 of them and picked up a couple more by guessing. Better keep my mouth shut!

I really enjoyed it.

Love it! Great quiz. I scored 100%. I agree with you, John, about folks taking a year off to brush up on their Vatican knowledge before holding forth on matters.

I imagine you had a bit of fun with this Mr.Allen, probably your intent. Nevertheless, it points out in more demonstrable fashion than usual, that your tag "All Things Catholic" is a misnomer. It should read "All things Vatican". That is your focus, your interest, your preoccupation, your expertise, your undoubtable value. You forget, however,that there is more to catholicism than Vatican; there is more to being understood than to understand.

This Catholic religion is the personal presence and growth of Jesus in creation in and through mankind, for each and every one of us "simple people" and not just the institutional hierarchy and experts therein/thereof. When the vatican speaks to me, or for me to the world, it has a fundamental obligation to be "understandable", "credible", "consistent", "representational" and to be identifiable with/as the characteristics and message of Jesus. And, as the truism goes "it must also appear to be so to the ordinary person".

If I, as a reasonable educated person, or a faithful person with little or no education or someone with a role or duty to observe and report are met with unintelligible, theo-technical, canon law'gical gobble de gook packaged in political terminology with underlying innuendo and clothed in patriarchical authoritarian absolutism more akin to cold war soviet rewriters of history disguised incompetently as compassionate, then what in the name of all that's good and holy can you or those poor misunderstood and under-appreciated vatican hierarchs expect?

Five right out of ten. And two of those five were just educated guesses. Better keep my mouth shut!

Right on Mr. Allen, I was correct on 8 of your 10 questions but still wouldnt feel qualified for a debate on Vatican issues.

Great column, John! It's nice, once in a while, to take a break and have a little fun. I am proud to say that I missed none of these. I suppose it comes from being a huge lover of information, especially about our glorious Church.

Thanks again!

This is the most stupid and idiotic piece of utter garbage I have ever read. First let me illustrate the stupidity and arrogance by using the baseball analogy that Allen uses. You did not have to know all the frigging baseball rules to know when an umpire recently made a bad call that costed the pitcher a perfect game. You don’t have to know Catholic Church dogma to know that for two decades the Catholic Church has done so little to address the sex scandals – namely the never ending saga of relentless rapes and sexual abuse of children and Nuns by the Priests and the cover up of these crimes instigated by the Pope. A fate of men and women is decided every day by ordinary men and women on jury and not by experts like Allen who would lie and distort facts for a buck to deceive the jury. If Allen had any sense of self esteem and integrity he would hide his head in shame and not is making excuses for the perpetrators of the unspeakable crimes.

This was fun. You should pass it on to the reporters from the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Excuse me while I preen: Ten out of Ten. But if it were baseball, it would more likely be Zero out of Ten.
The Association of Pittsburgh Priests will host John Allen to speak November 6, 2010. This test will be administered to those who propose to attend. Anything less than a five out ten will be grounds to deny admission to the talk. If those denied pre-paid, they'll be offered a ticket to a Pirate game.

Fr. Bernard Survil. For info on John Allen's talk: Ph: 724-850-1616

Well, I got most of them correct. I guess I'm better than average. But, while your piece talks about general terms of the details of the Vatican, I think the thrust of your commentary carries over to the general view of the vast majority of Catholic PIPs (people in the pews) when if come to opinions about virtually everything pertaining to the Church. Most of them don't even have the benefit of NCR, and are going only on what they have heard in the secular media. They don't even realize how much anti-Catholic bias is woven throughout every sentence of what the read and hear. Their opinion of the Church in general is just about as negative as the media, and they have no reply to anyone to stand up for the Church, and what is good.

70%

Missed 3, 9, and 10.

Good quiz, John.

I'm embarrassed to be so ignorant.

Sheesh. I only got six right; and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable. Thanks, John.

How about this: Who said, "Whatever you do to one of these, the least of my brethern, you do unto me?"

That is the only question worth answering when dealing with the Vatican, an organization proving itself to have little to nothing to do with the speaker of the above.

Mr. Allen seems overly concerned with his knowledge of the inner workings of the Vatican and all their "committees." As my adult children say, with editing, of course, "Who gives a flyin' hoot?"

AW

Dennism (writer above) short version: mercy, John, unpleasantly surprised that it's all about Rome! "Establishing bona fides" has to have something to do with faith, or at least passing familiarity with its articles.

Would have done something like 2 Roman/Vatican questions, 5 catechetical questions, and 3 Bible questions. The Church is not clerics/politics/hierarchy, no matter what clerics/politics/hierarchy preach.

Let's have another quiz, less Roman this time. No way am I tucking this one into my Baggallini.

7 out of 10 +++++++++++++ : )

Thamk you Mr. Allen for trying to educate the readers of NCR.

Although I see some do not want to be educated (no surprise there though)

John,

Your quiz was totally irrelevant to the key issues which you listed facing the pope and the Church at large.

"More or less the same observation, in my experience, applies to debates about the Vatican. In recent weeks, the air has been filled with competing opinions on various Vatican matters: Whether or not it was appropriate for the Vatican to treat the sexual abuse of minors and the attempted ordination of women in the same legal document, for example, or whether Pope Benedict XVI's record on handling sex abuse cases while he was at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith passes muster. People who've done their homework can reach very different conclusions on such subjects, and informed perspectives are always worth hearing."

I detect a tinge of Phariseeism in your assumption as to what qualifies a person to express his opinion on the issues at hand. One could score zero on your quiz and still have a valid, well-reasoned opinion on the issues you listed.

I would love to give a similar snap test to bishops on female reproductive anatomy. If they couldn't score at least eight out of ten, then they have no business stating opinions, much less writing doctrine which impact women's reproductive rights.

I got eight out of ten so that apparently qualifies me to make this comment.

Thank you Mr. Allen. The growing frustration caused by various comments brought me to the point where I found myself talking to the computer. Lately, as an act of self-preservation, I stopped reading the comments. In spite of the fact that we live in an age of unprecedented ease for acquiring information and facts, the case remains, just as in the days of old: ignorance is the plague. What's even worse, the more ignorant some commentators are, their comments are in direct proportion more vociferous and vituperated.

I got 8 out of 10 so i was pleased. i have never heard if James Harvey.

A great quiz. Should weed out the ignorant and silence their criticism of the Vatican and its lackeys.

The Vatican committee on Medjugorge should not be bothered by the clueless.

Got them mostly right, but then "who cares?"

The current debate is about the behavior of the organization and the allied City-State as a citizen of the Universe and of the world.

It should be judged not by its own norms, but rather those of the Universe and the world.

For its own norms, or at least its behavor, seem to be outside the bounds of how a civilized organization, or nation, operates.

number two=NONE

they're ALL in ENGLISH here, dude!
Geeesh, who uses English, anyway . . .
its use would be radical, not traditional.

This impacts other questions and responses here, particularly the Holy See in English only. How does it see itself?

In any case, any educator knows a "how many angels . . ." test like this is invalid as a testing of understanding, which requires questions from far further up on Bloom's Taxonomy.

What does it matter the name of the titular of Justice and Peace; are they being accomplished and realized? Didn't he declare the death penalty homicide, and yet we still execute our minorities in Texas hand over fist, with not one anglo Catholic whimper over this right to life issue? Do we not have a Secretariat of State with representative at the PLO, but not Hamas, the elected government of Palestine in Gaza? Do we not still have war worldwide, orchestrated by anglo America, with barely a anglo Catholic whimper heard here? What does it matter what we call the Holy See when no one hears, or call papal documents no one reads?

or that the Pontifical Council for Migrants and Refugees when the US creates and oppresses them by the millions, with barely an anglo Catholic whimper . . .

resolve THESE questions to enact the "new evangelization."

I knew a pope could resign. I got one answer correct. So, I guess that disqualifies my opinion.

My opinion that the Holy See is dragging its feet and is having a delayed reaction to the child abuse crisis is an opinion not worth having.

My opinion that the Holy See is bigoted and living in the middle ages, when it comes to homosexuality or gender equality is an ignorant opinion as I did not know which pontifical council in the list was the youngest.

Please!!

I have to admire John Allen's critics for their moxie. He observed that to have a good baseball argument, you really need to know the finer points of the game. To have a competent discussion about Vatican behavior, you need to know how the Vatican works. As he said, "informed perspectives are always worth hearing." Gadflies who chastise him for expecting people to do their homework are like people at a baseball game who keep grumbling that it's a dumb game. (BTW, 8 out of 10.)

A good quiz -- thank you. I got 9 out of 10.

I have to admire John Allen's critics for their moxie. He observes that to have a good baseball argument, you really need to know the finer points of the game. To have a competent discussion about Vatican behavior, you need to know how the Vatican works. As he said, "informed perspectives are always worth hearing." Gadflies who chastise him for expecting people to do their homework are like people at a baseball game who keep grumbling that it's a dumb game. (BTW, 8 out of 10.)

Hmmm, see you answered no question.

"What's tougher to take, however, are polemics (whether intended to praise the Vatican or to bury it) from commentators who obviously don't know a motu proprio from a miter, or a dicastery from a deacon."

What's wrong with this? What is Allen saying---if one doesn't know these arcane terms such as dicastery, one can't comment on our church? I don't know where Allen lives when he's in this country but I live in very rural America with few priests, few masses and a very dwindling congregation of old people. There once was a booming church here, but now our churches have closed and been sold off. In a neighboring diocese a beautiful Lithuanian church has been sold to Buddhists. (I've no problem with that--the spiritual life goes on).
So I since I don't know about dicasteries I can't comment about the state of my church and reach my argument all the way up to the Vatican, to the dicasteries of Rode and Law, to the congregation of Levada or any other Vatican bureaucrat?

In my part of the world I may not know the names of all the individual trees in our forests but I do know when the whole forest is in trouble, when it's decaying or burning. Perhaps Allen himself would benefit from taking a year off to watch his church from afar.

John,
I this another diversion from the real issues facing the vatican today?
What a waste of good time and space.....

I really don't think this quiz is relevant to the many issues catholics are grappling with today. John, you trivialize some pretty important issues facing the People of God with this trivia quiz.I think I hear a loud patronizing tone. I expect more from you.