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PDF versionSecularism, a new papal contender and Catholic humor
by John L Allen Jr on Oct. 21, 2011
Two-thirds of the world's Catholic population today is in the southern hemisphere, a share that should reach three-quarters by mid-century. To discern where the church is headed, it's critical to keep an eye on what's bubbling down south, and two recent stories thus deserve to be on the global Catholic radar screen.
The first comes out of Brazil; the second, from the Philippines. Both are Catholic superpowers, among the top four Catholic countries in terms of population, and both are destined to be pace-setters in the church of the 21st century.
In Brazil, a respected national research institute, the Getulio Vargas Foundation, has published a new study suggesting that secularism -- defined, in this case, as throwing in the towel on religious faith and practice -- is making rapid inroads among Brazilian youth. Based on 200,000 interviews conducted for Brazil's 2010 census, the study concludes that the Catholic share of Brazil's population has dropped to 68 percent, its lowest level since census data began to be collected in 1872, in part because of the rising percentage of youth who disclaim any religious affiliation.
The key finding is this: The number of people under 20 who say they follow no religion is growing three times more quickly than among those over 50, with 9 percent of young Brazilians saying they belong to no religion.
Those results track with other data from Brazil. In 2007, Fr. Jose Oscar Beozzo, who directs the Center for Evangelizing Services and Popular Education in São Paulo, said that between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of the Brazilian population that identifies itself as Protestant, with most of that number being Pentecostal, rose from 12 percent to 17 percent. In the same period, the percentage with no religious affiliation went from 0.7 percent to 7.3 percent, a tenfold increase.
"This is the infinitely more important movement in the Brazilian religious situation," Beozzo said at the time.
In numeric terms, Brazil is the largest Catholic country in the world, with its 163 million Catholics representing 85 percent of the population. Those, however, are baptismal totals, while the new study reflects the share who actually identify as Catholic. Among other things, the difference between the two indicates that 17 percent of Brazilians today were born Catholic but have subsequently left the church.
Competing explanations abound, with various commentators pointing to some version of at least four theories:
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- Brazil's economic boom, which has convinced a share of today's youth that they simply don't need religion.
- Alleged remoteness and arrogance on the part of Catholic officialdom, combined with elements of church teaching that don't play well with progressive-minded young people, including the church's positions on abortion, contraception and homosexuality. (Not surprisingly, that's especially popular with the liberal wing of the Brazilian church.)
- An over-concentration on politics by the Brazilian church, especially what's left of the liberation theology movement, with the result that young people today are spiritually adrift. (That tends to be the favorite account on the Catholic right.)
- The raging priest shortage in Brazil, coupled with difficulties in mobilizing laity to compensate for it. (That's often what one hears from front-line pastoral workers in the country.)
Whichever account one favors, the basic picture seems clear: A growing share of the younger generation in Brazil is being effectively secularized.
This could have implications beyond the country's borders, because given Brazil's new economic and political muscle, trends there pack a broader regional and international punch.
Two thoughts about what this means:
First, the $64,000 question about religion in the southern hemisphere has long been whether economic and political progress necessarily goes hand-in-hand with secularization. There doesn't appear to be any ironclad law; China's economic growth in the last quarter-century, for instance, has been accompanied by a spiritual boom. Yet it would seem to be the case in Brazil, which prompts the following thought: Latin America, in some ways, is closest to the historical patterns of Europe, in that the Catholic Church traditionally was a state-imposed monopoly. If secularism takes hold in Latin America more than other regions, might that be the final confirmation that relying on state power is, over the long run, always hazardous to the faith?
Second, the idée fixe of the church's leadership class in the West has become the defense of Catholic identity, as a means of protecting the church against being assimilated by secularism. In sociological terms, it's a "politics of identity," which is a classic defense mechanism for embattled subcultures. Developments in Brazil suggest that similar politics of identity could take shape in other parts of the Catholic world, giving that trend even more staying power.
Manila receives a new archbishop
The big news from the Philippines has been the Oct. 13 appointment of Luis Antonio Tagle as the new Archbishop of Manila, putting him in line to become a cardinal the next time Benedict XVI hosts a consistory.
In church terms, Tagle is still a kid at 54, and he looks even younger. The story goes that back in the mid-1990s, when then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger introduced Tagle to Pope John Paul II as a new member of the Vatican's International Theological Commission, Ratzinger jokingly assured the pope that the youthful-seeming Filipino had, in fact, received his first communion.
Youthfulness aside, a striking number of people who know Tagle believe that this is a guy who, one day, could be pope.
Born in Manila, Tagle went to seminary in Quezon City and later did his doctoral work at the Catholic University of America. He also studied in Rome before returning to the Philippines to serve as a pastor and teacher. He quickly came to be seen as a rising star in the Asian church, explaining his appointment in 1997 to the Vatican's main doctrinal advisory body. He was named bishop of Imus in 2001.
Theologically and politically, Tagle comes off as balanced. He's taken strong positions against a proposed "Reproductive Health" bill in the Philippines, which includes promotion of birth control. Yet his towering social concern is defense of the poor, and he's also got a strong environmental streak.
Tagle's doctoral dissertation at Catholic University, written under Fr. Joseph Komonchak, was a favorable treatment of the development of episcopal collegiality at the Second Vatican Council. Moreover, Tagle served for 15 years on the editorial board of the Bologna-based "History of Vatican II" project founded by Giuseppe Alberigo, criticized by some conservatives for an overly progressive reading of the council.
Alberto Melloni, an Italian academic and writer, directs the Bologna project. He calls Tagle "a thinker of real value" whose dissertation represents an important chapter in the history of Vatican II, and someone who's "talented and serious."
Back in the Philippines, it would be a gross understatement to say that Tagle, who goes by the nickname "Chito," is simply well-liked. In truth, most Filipino Catholics I know love the guy -- for his warmth and humor, for his simplicity (he routinely eschews clerical dress), for his ability to express complex ideas in attractive and understandable argot, for his balance and openness, and for his lack of ego. He actually told a Catholic radio station in the Philippines this week that when he first heard he was going to Manila, he didn't tell anybody, because "I thought maybe the pope would change his mind."
One Filipino commentator this week said Tagle has "a theologian's mind, a musician's soul and a pastor's heart."
In the Imus diocese, Tagle was famous for not owning a car and taking the bus to work every day, describing it as a way to combat the isolation that sometimes comes with high office. He was also known for inviting poor beggars outside the cathedral to come in and eat with him; one woman was quoted this week describing a time she went looking for her blind, out-of-work, alcoholic husband, suspecting she might track him down in a local bar, only to find that he was lunching with the bishop.
Here's another typical story. Not long after Tagle arrived in Imus, a small chapel located in a run-down neighborhood was waiting for a priest to say Mass for a group mostly made up of day laborers at around 4 a.m. Eventually a youngish cleric showed up on a cheap bicycle, wearing simple clothes and ready to start the Mass. An astonished member of the congregation realized it was the new bishop, and apologized that they hadn't prepared a better welcome. Tagle said it was no problem; he got word late the night before that the priest was sick, and decided to say the Mass himself.
Tagle is a gifted communicator, making him a highly sought-after speaker and media personality. He drew rave reviews for his performance at a 2008 International Eucharistic Congress in Quebec, where observers say he brought an entire stadium to tears. Vatican-watchers also rated him among the most impressive contributors to both the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist and the 2008 Synod on the Word of God. He's also a very 21st century prelate -- he hosts a program on YouTube, and he's got his own Facebook page.
Although a loyal churchman, Tagle is unafraid to raise tough questions (at the 2005 synod, he pointedly said the church must confront the priest shortage, which struck some as a way of hinting at flexibility on celibacy) or to challenge what he considers abuses (some of the toughest language you'll ever find denouncing clerical arrogance and privilege is in his writings).
One Filipino priest wrote this week: "Who knows, we may have in (Tagle) the first Asian pope." Even if that doesn't pan out, Tagle is destined to be an important face and voice for the burgeoning Catholic population in Asia and the entire developing world, and that makes him someone worth getting to know.
A humorous tour of the country
It's no secret to anyone who knows the Catholic church that it's a community of both deep passions and great humor. I've been on the lecture circuit the past week, where I've seen classic examples of both points.
During the last few days, I've been in:
- The St. Paul-Minneapolis archdiocese in Minnesota, for its "Communications Day" event;
- Santa Fe, N.M., for a governance conference of the Christus Health system;
- Montreal, Canada, for a conference on the sexual abuse crisis titled "Trauma and Transformation" organized by McGill University;
- West Lafayette, Ind., for a lecture at the St. Thomas Aquinas Catholic Center at Purdue University.
I found humor pretty much everywhere. It abounded in Minnesota, especially during a session with Lino Rulli, who hosts "The Catholic Guy" on Sirius Satellite Radio. In a performance that was one part reflection on youth ministry and one part stand-up comedy, Rulli (who said that retired Cardinal Edward Egan of New York actually calls him Lino "Unruly") mocked official Catholic verbiage when it comes to the under-40 crowd, such as terming them "young people" as if they're an exotic species. He riffed off that for a while, suggesting that sometimes it's as if church leaders think they're on a bird-watching expedition: "Observe the bearded young person in its natural habitat ... be quiet so we don't scare it off!"
Beneath the laughs, Rulli had some tough things to say about the church's stated desire to reach a younger audience. For instance, he asked: "Are we really serious about it? Or do we just say that because we think it's what the boss wants to hear?" If we're serious, he bluntly suggested, some things need to change, starting with the fact that, in his view, some of the people currently in charge of "youth ministry" just aren't very good at it.
Rulli stressed that if you really want to reach, say, people in their twenties distant from the faith, make sure you've got someone who can speak their language.
The Minnesota gig also offered a vintage illustration of the passions that course through Catholic life, though not in a way organizers had planned.
During a panel discussion, we were taking questions from the audience. At one point, a priest named Fr. Michael Tegeder, who's apparently well-known locally as something of a firebrand, bounded onto the stage to make a point that he felt represented the elephant in the room: Efforts by Archbishop John Nienstedt and the archdiocese to oppose same-sex marriage, which, in Tegeder's view, are themselves a powerful act of communication expressing marginalization of homosexual people. (By that point in the day, Nienstedt himself was no longer present.)
As Tegeder went on, the microphone was cut off, at which point he stepped to the front of the stage and continued to state his case. There were a couple of people applauding and a few others groaning, but most just sat in silence. When he was done, the program resumed, but the point had obviously been made: When we talk about church communications, we have to face the fact that on many issues, the broader Catholic community does not always speak with one voice.
Back on the humor front, laughter cropped up even at the sex abuse conference in Montreal -- not exactly a subject that naturally beckons a lighthearted approach.
Archbishop Anthony Mancini of Halifax gave an overview of his experience interacting with survivors in helping to shape the Canadian response to the crisis. Mancini is a warm and deeply funny guy, and during the Q&A session we got flashes of that side of his personality. At one point, he was describing how the crisis has damaged the public image of the priesthood, and said: "If a priest goes out to dinner with a man, people think he's homosexual. If he goes to dinner with a woman, they think he must be having an affair. I guess the only thing left is to get a dog!"
Jesuit Fr. George Wilson, a distinguished American theologian and expert on organizational theory, gave a powerful presentation on clericalism and the role it's played in the crisis. Along the way, he too demonstrated tremendous wit.
For instance, Wilson argued that one danger facing "clergy" in any realm, whether it's the academy, law enforcement, medicine or the ordained in a religious system, is that people hesitate to contradict them because of their allegedly superior expertise. That led Wilson to offer this piece of advice to the seven Canadian bishops in the room: "If your staff hasn't told you at least once in the last year to go to Hell, you ought to fire them, because they're not doing their job."
Wilson also captured the more traditional clerical style among some of today's younger priests this way: "I've got a stock tip for you: Buy birettas!"
(As an aside, the people at McGill deserve credit for putting together an event that tried to do justice to all voices in the Catholic conversation. They brought along the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops as a co-sponsor, and speakers ranged from fairly liberal perspectives to more traditional ones. The Catholic media outlet "Salt and Light" taped the event, and it's worth trying to catch it not merely for its insights about the crisis, but also as a model of conversation across the usual divides.)
In the wake of these experiences, I came away with two observations. First, we've got serious differences as Catholics, fueled by deep emotions on all sides. Second, we also have a real capacity to laugh at ourselves, which represents a common language with the potential to bridge some of those divides.
The question is: Can we bring our humor and our passion together so we can build friendships across the usual divides based, in part, on shared laughter rather than competing rants?
That, it seems to me, is something worth thinking about.
[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
This reminds me of the late
This reminds me of the late cardinal Sin of Manila. In the 1970s he was also touted as an Asian papabile. He was considered young and progressive-a peoples bishop. Then came the 1980s Synod of Bishops. When some western bishops stood up and questioned the thinking of Humane Vitae (including Archbishop Quinn of SF), Sin took the floor for a spirited defense of Caholic doctrine and harsh criticism of western export of birth control and abortion.
As someone once said "There
As someone once said "There is more to life then sex." Get over the church's teachings on sexuality. If you don't like it, complain to God, he created it.
I love Humane Vitea. And I have a great sex life with no regrets, and totally within church teaching. I am free from the hang ups the world put on sex.
Life is short, there are more important things to do than argue and complain over the church teachings.
Humanae Vitae has very little
Humanae Vitae has very little to do about sex and everything to do with procreation and euthanasia. Too many people get that confused.
Dear sir, excuse me for
Dear sir, excuse me for disagreing, just this time: the Temperature Method has a huge impact in a couple's sex life... It would make me laugh, if it didn't make me feel wanting to cry:
Also known as the sympto-thermal method, this birth control method involves charting your core body temperature throughout your menstrual cycle. Since your temperature rises slightly around the time of ovulation, finding the sustained spike in your core temperature will alert you as to when you aremost fertile during your monthly cycle.
For this natural birth control to work, a woman needs to take her temperature every day, first thing in the morning before she gets out of bed. And by first thing, that means you can't run to the washroom quickly or put coffee on first. Your temperature needs to be taken before you even kick off those sheets.
Once you have your temperature, record it on a chart so that you can follow the fluctuations in your temperature from day to day. Generally, your temperature should hover around 97.2ºF and 97.4ºF, although it may go up or down from day to day. When you ovulate, though, your temperature will increase anywhere from half a degree to as much as a full degree (often going above 98ºF) and will remain elevated due to the extra production of progesterone.
Seeing a sustained increase in your temperature, one that lasts for at least three days, indicates that ovulation has taken place. When you know ovulation has taken place, it can be assumed that having sex during the rest of your menstrual cycle will not result in pregnancy. Before you ovulate, though, it can be a bit harder to determine exactly when the "safest" time is to have sex.
Once the ovaries have released an egg, there is a 24-hour window during which time the egg can be fertilized. However, sperm can remain viable inside a woman for as long as seven days. Therefore, it is possible to become pregnant even if you don't have sex during your most fertile time. For this reason, some couples using this method choose to abstain from sex prior to ovulation. Known as the post-ovulatory temperature method, with perfect use it can be as much as 99% effective.
Some couples prefer not to abstain from sex for such a long period and instead examine the temperature patterns of a woman's previous cycles in order to determine about when ovulation occurs. The "safest" time to have sex is thought to be up to one week before the earliest recorded day of temperature rise.
Citing medical science to the
Citing medical science to the Flat Earth Society in Rome is comparable to explaining engineering principles behind modern day gold mining processes to someone intent upon trying to sell Fools Gold to an assay office.
Pope Benny and his magicians and wizards fall on their faces every time.
A pity the Australian
A pity the Australian clergyman promoting the Billings method didn't follow the prescribed instructions.
Or the other who was told "all things in moderation".
At least he asked for a rescript of ligitimation to care for the mother and his child, denied of course, not worth relinguishing the priesthood for.
But there you are, one thing for one, another for the other.
As Noel Lane from Kirwan Queensland once wrote: It is more forgivable if these men were to carry on illicit affairs.....
Will the real Holy Spirit please stand up.
SECULARISM & BALONEY
SECULARISM & BALONEY .......John, Thanks for the interesting data, but no thanks for the "anti-secularist" spin. When you cut through the smokescreens, the youth in Brazil are leaving, and will continue to leave, the Church in droves, because of the hypocritical and coercive policies, especially in the area of sexuality, of the Roman clique and their bishop puppets. Escalating church flight by youth follows the same alarming patterns in many other "Catholic countries", including the Church's old stalwart, Ireland.
It is not uncommon for women in Brazil still to have a dozen kids, mainly due to Church resistance to contraception, which resistance as you know is founded more on papal politics than theology. The situation is similar in the Phillipines where 40% of pregnancies are unwanted. Predictably, your new Phillipine hero is fighting to preserve the Phillipine governmental restictions on contraception.
While two thirds of the world's Catholics may live in the southern hemisphere, over two-thirds of the Church's hierarchs in Rome are from only a few Western Europeans countries, mainly Italy. Little seems to have changed since the time of the medieval Borgias , in either personnel, policies or politics.
Why would honest young people want to stay with a Church that views women as "baby machines' and demonizes homosexuals, while homosexuality and sexual promiscuity seems to be so prevalent among Catholic clergy?
You point out the contrast of the youth in China that seem more amenable to things spiritual. The Chinese contrast is very understandable. Few Chinese are yet jaded about the Church since the Roman clique has a much smaller and lighter footprint in China and China's pervasive public birth control program makes the Church's regressive anti-contraception policies irrelevant in China.
I, regretfully, am not hopeful that Joseph Komonchak's former student will be very prophetic in the Phillipines, given the bishop vetting process and the ideological loyalty oaths required by the Roman puppet masters. Even Joseph, now retired but still erudite and a frequent blogger at dotCommonweal, seems to avoid like the plague sensitive Vatican political subjects, even though there appears to be little to fear from the Roman clique's irrepressible oppressive tactics at this point in his life. It seems he may have been chastised for his monumental work on Vatican II with the Bologna school, and that sting may still cause pain. Who knows? I wish he would weigh in more.
But I would forget about anyone appointed by the Roman clique being prophetic. Like religion reporters, bishops are loathe to bite the hands that feed them.
For more information on the political motivation behind the Roman clique's anti-contraception position, please note the NCR article, "New birth control commission papers reveal Vatican's hand", accessible by clicking on at http://nronline.org/news/vatican/new-birth-control-commission-papers-rev... .
For more information on the coercive structure of the Romann clique and some hopeful thoughts on changing it, please note the comment under the comment heading, "LETS'S GO BACK FURTHER", accessible by clicking on at http://ncronline.org/blogs/bulletins-human-side/you-cant-go-rome-again .
For more information on the most likely new positive development that may yet change in the near future the present coercive hold of the Roman clique on the Church, please see the comment under the comment heading, "POPE IN HANDUFFS?", accessible by clicking on at http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/blessing-vatican-really-d... .
Jerry, thank you for this
Jerry, thank you for this clear statement of facts. There are also many Churches in Brazil that practice independent Catholicism and do not adhere to the papal ideas of infallibility. It is certain as more and more people in Brazil obtain the resources allowing them the education to think clearly about the RCC, they will reject the authoritarianism just as did Europe. The US shows us that educated cradle catholics have a high rate of rejecting church authoritarianism and become a member of the second largest faith group in the States--Once Catholic. I have no doubt that Brazil will find its own way to reject religious authoritarianism as they rejected it in politics.
Dr. Porch, If the truth be
Dr. Porch, If the truth be known all of Latin America is ripe for revolution and Church reform. Our hemispheric neighbors may well become the spearhead for radical change as the Church becomes exposed for its corruption, continuing support of ancient and vested interests from the army, the rich, and the arch conservative land owners. Then you have the epidemic rise in the growth of evangelical Protestantism and Mormonism.
I once laughed at the predictions by Sunday morning television huckster- evangelicals who said the Catholic Church would become a sect or a cult, and was inhabited by Satan. Today, I don't laugh.
BIRTH CONTROL BULL
BIRTH CONTROL BULL ........The correct link to the NCR article that describes the Roman clique's manipulation of the 1960's Papal Birth Control Commission, apparently to maximize the Roman clique's power, is accessible (I hope at least) by clicking on at http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/new-birth-control-commission-papers-re... .
This article offers a good example of how the Roman clique and their secretive curial cabal have been operating since the death of the good Pope John XXIII in 1963. Meanwhile, the Roman clique still view women mainly as non-stop "baby machines".
If there is still a problem with the link, please search under my name "SLEVIN" and click on to the birth control commission article.
Here! Here! Most Catholcs who
Here! Here! Most Catholcs who prayerfully disagree with the Church's stand in birth control just ignore it and continue to worship and receive the sacraments. To our knowledge was NOT proclaimed "ex-cathedra", therefore not infallible. The church is just out of touch with it's people. Much like the kings in days of old, all wrapped up in their regal-ness and riches with no clue of the poor right outside their gates!
"I would forget about anyone
"I would forget about anyone appointed by the Roman clique being prophetic. Like religion reporters, bishops are loathe to bite the hands that feed them."
Great example of stereotyping, Jerry. Somewhat like saying all psychological researchers are arrogant pinheads.
Everybody deserves a chance to show what they're made of. I, for one, hold out great hope that Asian influence through players such as Tagle will emerge as powerful sources of change in the future church. There are good reasons for that hope. Should you not love to have to eat your words? Or...?
OATHS MATTER .........
OATHS MATTER ......... Mah 51, I am not stereotyping bishops and wish Mr. Tagle well. He has, as a condition of his promotion, sworn like every other current puppet bishop to uphold the Roman clique's mandatory positions, like opposing birth control, which in the Phillipines' situation is clearly unprophetic. I am only assuming he will keep his word to his Roman masters.
As to religion reporters, you are right. I should not have insinuated all reporters approach the Roman clique in the same obsequious manner that John Allen frequently does. In fact, I have already encountered some, thank God.
If someone leaves the Church,
If someone leaves the Church, its because they were never Catholic to begin with.
What a foolish and unfounded
What a foolish and unfounded thing to say. You have no understanding of the condition of present day Catholocism to make such a statement.
Well, we become Catholic by
Well, we become Catholic by being baptized into the Catholic Church, or if someone was baptized in another Christian community, they can make a statement before the whole Church, that they believe everything the Catholic Church holds and teaches, to be revealed by God. And sometimes people who are thus intiated into the Catholic Church unfortunately leave the fold. It seems clearly possible for someone to be Catholic and later fall away.
Vatican II taught that anyone who, knowing that Christ has made the Church necessary for our salvation, refuses to enter or remain within it, cannot be saved.
The problem is that the
The problem is that the church is so top-loaded with bureaucracy, and our focus is so far from actually being Christlike, that it is possible that we are far from what God actually wants. In our humility, and especially our humanity, we must allow for this possibility. Prophets call us to the truth and frequently disagree with MotherChurch. Prophets are being silenced . . . as usual . . . .
Some folks who struggle the most with Mother love her best of all. Let's not presume to say who will be saved--neither us nor Mother.
"..Vatican II taught that
"..Vatican II taught that anyone who, knowing that Christ has made the Church necessary for our salvation, refuses to enter or remain within it, cannot be saved."
And where does Faith come in?
It is one thing to intellectually 'know' something and still not be gifted with Faith.
Also what does it mean that '... the Church (is) necessary for our salvation..."?
I may be in error but I believe that the salvific action of the Church applies to all persons - immaterial of membership in the Catholic Church.
I don't find the
I don't find the marginalization of gay people funny. How much blood do the Bishops have on their hands with the suicides of gays who were rejected by family and church? How many alcoholics can trace their drinking to trying to ease the pain of a failure to embrace them because they are gay? How many gay catholics have abandoned their church for other more tolerant, accepting and loving churches?
Not funny. Not one bit funny.
Lot's of blood on their
Lot's of blood on their hands. Remeber the wood they used to burn errant woman/witches and gays/heretics at the stake are called fagots.
Anonymous, of course you're
Anonymous, of course you're right, the marginalisation of gay people is not funny. But in fairness to John Allen, if you're referring to his description of Fr Tegeder's impromptu speech, then you obviously skipped over the first sentence in that section of the article. Allen puts the incident in the category of the "passions that course through Catholic life", NOT in the humour category.
the problem in catholic now
the problem in catholic now lock inforcement 2 do or adopt a things that other sectarian do , why the muslim hve great population now and my be after 50years europe will b their terotory also bcoz of their closenest w their religion , why the catholic did not study to how they adopt that kind of style , just only my opinion thnx and GodBless All Of Us
"Lack of Ego," putting aside
"Lack of Ego," putting aside all that swishy clerical dress? He'll never be Pope.
John M, you have taken the
John M, you have taken the statement "lack of ego" completely out of context. First, priestly garb is does not show ego, it represents Christ on Earth. Second, you don't even know bishop Tagle, whether you are a Filipino living far away from Imus, or a foreigner thousands of miles away from Manila, you do not know or have seen bishop Tagle. Read the article again, please. That statement is uncalled for.
Could you please tell me
Could you please tell me where in the Gospels it is stated that Jesus wore clerical dress – or priestly garb, as you call it?
Thank you very much.
Perhaps when Europe is under
Perhaps when Europe is under Muslim rule the church will learn to be a church again instead of a theatric medieval re-enactment and and a rigid international corporation with a king as the CEO.
Secularism is a paper tiger.
Secularism is a paper tiger. Too many of our Church leaders give the impression that the Church wishes to sever its ties with the world of today. It stigmatizes it as a world of relativism and talks down to it from on high while judging and condemning it.
The Vatican Council on the other hand, teaches us that we are to be engaged and not at war with our world, yes, our only world. We are not poor "exiled Children of Eve" as we were taught to, pray. This is our home; this is where God put us and wants us to be and work.
Furtheromre the Church thrives best in a secular society. Theocracies of any sort, be they Muslim or the Papal States, have proven to be harmful to the flourishing of religion. Thank God we do not live in a Catholic theocracy.
Well said!
Well said!
Many of us labeled as
Many of us labeled as "secularists" are really people who want to find a way to honor ideals of freedom, equality, and democracy in our form of government and the beliefs we hold in our faith. For example, I really do believe that as a civil matter, gay people who want to marry should have all the benefits the states and federal government give to straight couples who marry. They are civil benefits, not church blessings or sacraments. Studies in social sciences are showing us that being gay is inherent in the nature of some people - just because it is not a predominent doesn't mean anything more than someone is blond rather than brown haired. The idea that making sure gay people can't "marry" somehow strengthens straight marriage is ludicrous - there will be no fewer straight couple divorces because gay people can marry and there will be no more straight couples getting married because gay people can also get married.
I am offended as a citizen of this country that tax exempt religious organizations can spend money on materials, meetings, and advertising campaigns directly intended to influence legislation and political outcomes. It is one thing to preach the message to the congregation and urge them to be active in local groups - it is quite another to directly use church funds and facilities to lobby. The Mormons were heavily involved in the Prop 8 campaign in California and I think they crossed a line.
I don't have an answer for how to find that balance. But millions of people came here from Europe to get away from governments that acted as the arm of the recognized religion of that government. That is what I think of when I think of the bishops campaign to be sure that the tens of thousands of people who work for catholic organizations (schools, universities, hospitals), who may or may not be Catholic, cannot have access to almost universally accepted forms of birth control because the Church doesn't think it is right. What the Church tries to do is carve out some right to deny equal benefits to those associated with catholic organizations - not rely on the conscience of the individual to make the choices but to claim a right to take that choice away from them.
We cannot and should not be able to legislate Catholicism.
Not only the Mormons but
Not only the Mormons but Oakland, CA's very own "Godfather" Bishop - Salvatore Cordileone:
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/the-father-of-proposition-8/Content?oi...
You've got it, ATF. Thanks so
You've got it, ATF. Thanks so much for your intelligent and reasonable post.
I will let your opening
I will let your opening paragraph stand without comment. To your second paragraph, however, I am offended that labor unions, which represent less than 9% of the total population of the United States should be allowed to spend millions upon millions of dollars advocating for legislation and candidates that represent only a small minority of people. I am equally offended that these unions use company time and union members to drive people to polling places in order for them to vote for democrat candidates. I am offended that certain professions require union membership in order to hold a job and thus the unions require their members to support, via their union dues, political agendas which are not their own, and against which an individual may spend all his free time opposing. I am offended that unions use the dues to lobby for issues such as gay marriage, abortion rights, confiscatory taxation, etc. Yet, that is our republic.
At least the Church never tells anyone whom to vote for, the Church only lays out the Church's teaching on the issues of the day. It is up to the individual Catholic to decide whether to cast his ballot in support of Church teaching or in opposition to it.
As to your other points, if you work for Pepsi, do you really think that your boss will tolerate you drinking only Coca-Cola at work? If you work for Microsoft, do you really think that your boss will allow you to use your iPhone for business calls, or your MacBook for your office computer? If you work for any company and engage in behavior that is contrary to the company's code of conduct, you will be terminated. Why is that acceptable in civil industry, but not in Church-owned and operated institutions?
I have a friend who is the president of a small community college. He mandated that if his staff wore polo shirts with logos on them to work, the only acceptable logo would be that of the college they work for. This was accepted by everyone without any controversy. It just makes sense. In a like manner, I used to teach at a school, right after college, at which the Kindergarten teacher, a married woman, was carrying on an affair with the custodian, a married man. When the affair was discovered by school authorities, they were dismissed. This type of behavior was not consistent with the school's employee code of conduct.
In the same way, if a person chooses to work for a Catholic university, school, hospital, charity, etc., that person should be aware that this choice means that he or she must conform to the institution's code of conduct. Moreover, since all Catholic institutions exist for the primary and overriding purpose of evangelization, these folks should be aware of the fact that these organizations will not engage in behavior that is contrary to the Church's teaching, that will cause scandal, and thus detract from the institution's primary mission of spreading the Gospel. The choice to work for the Church is a free choice, but it carries with it consequences. One of those consequences is that employees must conform their lives, at least in public, to the Church's teaching. They do not have to become Catholic, but neither can they engage in public behavior that is blatantly in contradiction of the Church's teaching without repercussions.
If a person objects to the Church's teaching on a particular matter, or several matters, or entirely, then that person should not be working for the Church. It is as simple as that.
Wow! You really ignore an
Wow! You really ignore an awful lot of facts and basic understandings of the people who belong to unions. Just one example - you "forget" that no one controls what one does in the voting booth. I well realize you don't like much of anything taking place in secular society or even in the contemporary Church, and you state your case eloquently at times, but your "facts" are often very, very wrong and biased. If a person objects to the Church's teaching on a particular matter, or several matters, or entirely, that is entirely within the parameters of Catholic teaching.
As a Filipino-American, I
As a Filipino-American, I would like to thank you for your relatively long reporting re appointment to Manila Archbishopric of Chito Tagle who might be a future papal contender. I more impressed by the ways this man of God provides examples of Christ-centered leadership--which are sadly wanting among many of our so-called Princes of the Church.
As to his chance to be the first Asian-pope, not with the current institutional structures! But young as he is, 20-30 years from now, who knows? The breath of the Spirit blows where She wills. So, do not give up Jerry.
Peaceful, consistent and persevering demonstrations on the part the laity may do the trick.
As I see it, the time is ripe for laypersons to trigger --what T. Kuhn labels-
a paradigm shift in the ways we view and practice governance in our church today.
John, you give four reasons
John, you give four reasons for the growth of "secularism" in Brazil. All four probably contribute to the steep decline in self-identified Catholics. The weakest seems to be the one on liberation theology. My guess: less than 10% of Brazil's huge population have ever heard of liberation theology, maybe not even 5%. But that has been the focus of Rome and many Brazilian bishops. When one mis-diagnoses the disease, the real disease can kill you as you fight the phantasm.
Cardinal Ratzinger's
Cardinal Ratzinger's single-handed destruction of Fr. Leonardo Boff was one of the last great chances the Church had to be become and to be seen by the Brazilian people and other Latin Americans as the Church of the poor, the dispossessed, and the despairing. Like everything else this pontiff touches, it turns out to be reverse Midas Touch.
Wow. The Church has always
Wow.
The Church has always been supportive of virgins. Many canonized women saints are, in fact, virgins. How could someone say that the Church only views women as "baby machines"? The Holy Virgin Mary is often called the "Queen of the Saints". Her only Son was conceived by the Holy Spirit and Mary miraculously remained a virgin.
The Church does not approve of contraception because sex is meant to make a powerful bond between a man and a woman. A child is the natural product of that bond.
Why shouldn't an organization have the right to deny it's workers something in their health care plan that goes against the organization's beliefs? If someone really wants birth control but can't afford it and has no medical issues that need the actual meds, then there is a 100 percent natural and free way of avoiding pregnancies...;)
Steven D. Graydanus does a great job of compassionately explaining the Church's stance on homosexuality at www.decentfilms.com in the mailbag of the Madagascar 2 review.
Some sins are very hard to stay away from for different people. Mine could be lying or stealing. I could be very suspectible to having sex before marriage. Homosexuality is part of some peoples personality but it is still a disorder. It's a sexual sin.
The Church has been focusing on it, because at this point in time it's being accepted as good and not wrong.
Let's make sure we are
Let's make sure we are talking about the same Blessed Mother. No matter what the church teaches, scripture says: MT1:25 (Joseph) but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus.
Seems to me mary was a vigin until Christ was born, but not after. And where does it say in scripture that they had no other children? Just because they aren't talked about (unless you consider his brothers and sisters mentioned much later in scripture) doesn't mean they didn't exist. Jesus wasn't talked about from birth until he was 12 years old at the temple...maybe the same goes for His siblings.
The fact that he has become
The fact that he has become an Archbishop, aged 52, does not necessarily put a stamp on Luis Antonio Tagle as a future pope and speculation of this nature makes the choice of selecting a pope similar to handicapping a horse race. But some how, American journalist, so use as they are to the trivality of US politics, cannot conceptualise anything to do with leadership in terms of its qualitative and substantative ouputs other than to begin useless handicapping. It is not good. The best I hope for the new archbishop is that he will be a good leader to the faithful of Manila and if by chance his ideas and leadership have an effect on the good of global catholicism then all the better. But do not put such an unnecessary expectation on him before he has even begun his mission.
The one movement in theology
The one movement in theology that I believe would most appeal to intelligent, eduated youth is Liberation Theology, a movement which the Vatican has pretty effectively quashed. The one trend which I think would appeal the least is the pre-Vatican II 1950s nostalgia craze currently making the rounds in Rome (I am right now imagining Benedict dancing to "Rock Around the Clock" in St. Peter's Square. Far out!)
Some fresh news from
Some fresh news from Spain
that were not mentioned during the WYD that took place in Madrid:
Nuns and priests ‘stole babies’
Abigail Frymann and Graham Keeley - 22 October 2011
Priests and religious in Spain have been accused of collaborating from the 1930s until the 1990s in the theft of thousands of babies in order to sell them to “approved” families. A BBC2 documentary aired on Tuesday, This World: Spain’s Stolen Babies, charts a baby-trafficking scandal that some lawyers say involved up to 300,000 infants.
The Spanish Government has resisted calls for an investigation from hundreds of families who had babies taken from hospitals – often church-run. The Confederation of Religious, speaking on behalf of the bishops, said it would not comment on the allegations until judicial investigations had been completed, although some individual nuns have admitted to complicity in the scandal.
Government spokesman Angel Nuñez admitted that babies were stolen, telling the BBC: “From the volume of official investigations I dare to say there were many.”
Several mothers have come forward to say that they were told their first-born children had died during or soon after they gave birth. The practice of removing babies from parents deemed politically dangerous and placing them with approved families gathered pace in the 1930s under General Franco.
But over time babies also began to be taken from parents considered morally or economically deficient. The mothers, often young and unmarried or impoverished, were told they could not see the baby’s body or attend their burial. Instead, the healthy babies were sold to devout and wealthy childless couples seen as more appropriate parents.
The documentary claims that priests and nuns compiled waiting lists of would-be adoptive parents. One doctor accused of baby-trafficking, Dr Eduardo Vela, told the BBC that he had only acted for the good of the children and to protect the mothers. The programme does not establish that the practice was sanctioned by the church hierarchy.
The scandal broke earlier this year when two men from near Barcelona, Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno, discovered they had been bought. Mr Moreno’s adoptive father confessed on his deathbed to having bought him as a baby from a priest. He also said he had been accompanied on the trip by Mr Barroso’s parents, who bought Antonio at the same time. DNA tests have proved that the couple who brought up Mr Barroso were not his biological parents and the nun who sold him has admitted doing so but denied she had done anything wrong.
Since the pair went to the press, mothers all over the country have come forward saying they, too, had been told their babies had died but had never believed it. Some people have dug up babies’ graves to find that they contain stones or the remains of unrelated adults or animals. Spain’s Attorney General, Cándido Conde-Pumpido, said he did not believe there was a national conspiracy behind the trafficking. Regional prosecutors across Spain are investigating each case individually. (The Tablet)
Oh, so there are sinners in
Oh, so there are sinners in the Church?
Sinning is one thing,
Sinning is one thing, sneering contempt for injustice is quite another. Sadly that sneering contempt and lack of decent empathy is what I expect from self-appointed defenders of Catholicism.
I agree with ATF above. Let’s
I agree with ATF above. Let’s have a church that’s more FOR (more an advocate) than a church that’s AGAINST. I think the hierarchy and I have a different view of pluralism. Certainly we have our beliefs and we should be firm in those beliefs, but that doesn’t mean that we deny others the right to exercise their beliefs.
For example as ATF says, the “Church” is against gay marriage. Ok. Don’t perform gay marriages, but don’t deny others in our society the rights and privileges accorded marriage.
Picking up the local archdiocesan newspaper an article can be found in almost each issue opposing this or that piece of legislation. Rather than oppose the legislation, I think the teaching authorities in the church should make these situation teaching opportunities to reinforce Catholic teaching; make it a positive.
Wilson also captured the more
Wilson also captured the more traditional clerical style among some of today's younger priests this way: "I've got a stock tip for you: Buy birettas!"
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When B16 was installed I went long on fiddleback chasuables, plaster of paris statues, and framed altar cards. Made a fortune.
Most of the people around this pope think modern communications ,consists of buying a good, reliable crystal set with a pair of earphones. In Benedict's Vatican, today if you talk to a room full of cardinals about the need to furnish Vatican offices with "word processors", they will inquire where it might be possible to obtain clay tablets with accompanying styli in great enough quantity to meet the need for office supplies in the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Holy Office?
Amazing: all this talk about
Amazing: all this talk about why the Roman church is losing ground in South America, and the hope of this Asian bishop (who does sound very good), when the problem is that the Roman church is dying.
The church is dying because it very quickly became inhumane and becomes more so every day. One of the images of Jesus in the Gospels comes from the prophetic tradition: the prophets were God's initiative on behalf of human beings (including women). Jesus was God in the world on behalf of human beings. "Be not afraid! I am with you."
Unfortunately, the Roman church talks about prophetic justice, but does not live prophetic justice. The thrust of the modern Roman church is "Who can we condemn and who can we exclude."
I have come to the conclusion that the only reason women are baptized by the Roman church is that male children cannot produced without women. The Roman church expects women to collude in indoctrinating male children into the women-hating stance of the Roman Church.
Sadly, we do collude in our own imprisonment.
KK
The thrust of the modern
The thrust of the modern Roman church is "Who can we condemn and who can we exclude."
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Especially the latter, in which the captain at the helm of Peter's barque is determined to restore Jansenism as the guiding principle of the Church of the future. A process of separating the "elect", the "orthodox" from the "heretics" and the "impure", the ""compliant from the "rebels". Rally the myth-imbued peasantry yearning for a re-statement of what it means to be Catholic. To return to a universal identification of Catholic culture, piety and liturgy.
It's everything Vatican II was not. Make no mistake about it, this is Pope Benedict XVI's way of leaving his stamp on the history of the papacy. By pursuing a policy of retrogression and suppression.
Nothing is secular;
Nothing is secular; Everything is Sacred.
Mr Allen, Has the research
Mr Allen,
Has the research from Brazil looked at the difference between spirituality and religiosity? Many of the students I teach claim to be "more spiritual than religious". They don't claim "secular" as their label, whether they know what that means or not. They do however do not claim a religion and claim to be spiritually-oriented.
Is this the same case in Brazil?
Also, if the Pentecostal church in Brazil is growing, then why isn't the Catholic Pentecostal movement considered part of that growth? Why would people have to move to the Protestant Pentecostal Churches in order to fill their spirituality needs. Catholicism has lots of spiritual traditions that could enliven the youth and enliven the church.
Exactly - the Catholic
Exactly - the Catholic Charismatic Movement could easily provide the praying, supportive community that people are finding in the Pentacostal church. Probably their bishops are afraid of promoting it - afraid of rocking the boat and having Rome frown at them. Rome suppresses feelings and views them with a lot of suspicion.
"...the Catholic Charismatic
"...the Catholic Charismatic Movement could easily provide...."
By some accounts the CCM is doing a good job. The INTERNATIONAL BULLETIN OF MISSIONARY RESEARCH counts 120 million Charismatic Catholics in the world, mostly in Brazil and the Phillipines.
John Allen's data and observations are always helpful. Here are some more inclusive data: vocations in Brazil are up 700% and the increased contraceptive options have dramatically cut Brazil's fertility rate from 6.2 in 1960 to 1.9 today. So smaller families among Catholics (as well as secularism) could also have something to do with the drop in Catholic numbers. Possibly.
Ah! Finally a semi-official,
Ah! Finally a semi-official, but unspoken, synonym for "secular" arose in this piece: the unchurched - for whatever reason...
"Secular" and "secularism" keep being bandied about as though the hearer or reader should understand them. It's like they're throw-in words for describing ---- whatever! There are secular Islam; secular Catholics; secular events etc. Secular is good as coupled with "Islam" and bad when with places and people associated with christian pasts. It's a handy word but it's use is much much too common to hold water any more.
I would counter that for
I would counter that for Catholics in the U.S. and Europe, the problem is not secularism but relevance. Sex is real, contraceptives are a blessing not a curse, gay people are normal and not "inherently disordered." Jesus never said a priest had to be male or had to be celebate and there are not enough male celebate priests to keep our faith alive. Women are thinking, creative, intelligent people who want to participate fully in the Church as men do.
We need doctors and families to discuss when a pregnancy may endanger the life of a woman and not have the decision made by an old man who has never married, never had children, and wears skirts. In vitro fertilization has given tens of thousands of women the joy of children they never could have otherwise had - teach us how to be ethical in using in vitro rather than throwing up a total barrier because you can't figure it out.
It is not "secularism" at work when we protect individual liberty in a democracy by giving freedom to individuals to choose contraceptives, sterilization, or to marry regardless of gender, race, religious affiliation, or color of hair, shape of nose, and size of cranium. It is recognition that my neighbor may not agree that "the pill" is wrong and has a right to decide for herself, not have that choice made for her by a religious institution that claims the right to deny her that choice because she works for them. You might as well require women to wear a veil in public, as fundamentalist Islamists do - they are as wrong as the Church is in trying to make the government the instrument of the Church.
Pretty soon a day will come
Pretty soon a day will come when the Church will no longer be an artificial institution populated by people who are automatically affiliated by family traditions. The Church of Christ is for adults who are born to a new life with a total commitment to the Law of God as manifested by Jesus in the Beatitudes. A new generation of Christians will do away with obsolete signs of power, with formal ritualisms, with arbitrary dogmatisms and witness the salvation manifested by the Resurrection.
How good it is to read the
How good it is to read the many good comments on "secular" in this queue. I especially liked the one in which the writer states a conviction that everything, all creation, is sacred.
One way to reconcile the
One way to reconcile the Brazilian and Chinese data on the popularity of Church for the young is to consider the element of rebellion among the young, the moment when they decide "I'm grown up and am going to think for myself. State or quasi-State religion or atheism then yields to secularism in Brazil and faith in China.
When religion has for all intents and purposes been State, and State and/or Church comes across as arrogant and intolerant of any questioning, rebellion is fostered. Where the Church has cozied up with dictatorships, this effect will be magnified.
Some of the messages above are evidence of rebellion among the readership. To them I would say that not all Priests and not all Bishops are exactly alike.
It's astonishing the negative
It's astonishing the negative feelings expressed against the church. Are these from Catholics who are genuinely worried about the faith? Would they be happy, and perhaps join the church, if the Catholic church have women priests, gay priests, allow contraception, abortion, sex before marriage etc?
No, of course not. The Catholic church is not perfect, it never claims it is or was. But when her opponents hop on their high horses and claim moral superiority, it tells a lot about themselves. Get over it! The church is here and there to stay.
I have lived in a Muslim country and two ex-communist countries. Everyday I thank the Lord that I can now retire in a Christian/Catholic country, imperfect as it may be, but at the very least, it views me as a human being surrounded by culture and high art. There I am no longer considered a slave
to Allah which allows me to be honor-killed if I outtow the line and neither am I no longer considered a comrade of Mao/Stalin which regards human beings as mere economic units.
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