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PDF versionPondering Islam and its discontents
by John L Allen Jr on Nov. 05, 2010
While Americans were preoccupied with midterm elections, the besieged Christians of Iraq faced yet another threat to their survival -- survival of the literal sort, not merely political. The blow came with an attack on a Syrian Catholic church in Baghdad, Our Lady of Salvation, which was seized by Al-Qaeda terrorists during Sunday Mass. A police raid left an estimated 57 dead and more than 60 wounded.
A radical Islamist web site linked to Al-Qaeda said the church had been targeted as a "dirty den of idolatry," apparently in reprisal for the refusal of the Coptic church in Egypt to hand over two wives of Coptic priests believed by radicals to have converted to Islam. The web site proclaimed that "all the churches and Christian organizations and their leaders are a legitimate target for the mujahedeen."
As fate would have it, I was in Cleveland last night speaking at Notre Dame College's Abrahamic Center on "Vatican Interfaith Relations with Islam and Judaism." I'll summarize here what I said -- not because it offers any magic wand for preventing the kind of bloodshed we saw in Baghdad, but because the tragedy illustrates anew the urgency of deep and creative thinking about Christian/Muslim tensions.
My thesis was the following: The last decade has witnessed a historic shift from Judaism to Islam as the paradigmatic interfaith relationship of the Catholic Church.
That's not to say Judaism has become unimportant, or that Catholics won't continue to work on the relationship. Islam, however, has become the primary interfaith concern. Not only is Islam where the bulk of the church's time and treasure is being invested, it's the new template for all of Catholicism's relationships with other religions.
The Shift to Islam
Four factors have driven that shift.
First is simple arithmetic. There are 1.6 billion Muslims and 2.3 billion Christians in the world, which adds up to 55 percent of the human population. For good or ill, the relationship is destined to be a driver of global history. Second, the terrorist attacks of 9/11, and subsequent outbreaks of Muslim radicalism such as the assault on Our Lady of Salvation, have made Islam a burning preoccupation for the entire world.
Third, Pope Benedict XVI's speech at Regensburg, Germany, in September 2006 unleashed massive new energies in Catholic/Muslim relations. The speech triggered a firestorm in the Islamic world, because Benedict began by citing a 14th century Byzantine emperor to the effect that "Muhammad brought things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Yet it also galvanized thoughtful voices on both sides of the relationship -- most notably, it produced "A Common Word," an initiative of 138 Muslim scholars, representing all the schools of Islam, acting together for the first time to outline common ground between Christians and Muslims.
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Fourth, the demographic transition in Catholicism from the West to the Southern hemisphere is producing a new generation of leaders from Africa, Asia and Latin America, where Judaism generally does not have a large sociological footprint. This Southern cohort didn't live through the Holocaust, and they generally don't feel historical responsibility for it -- seeing it as a Western, not a Christian, atrocity. Relations with Islam, however, are a front-burner priority, since many of these southern Catholics live cheek by jowl with large Muslim communities.
Four Implications
There are four key implications of this shift from Judaism to Islam, not merely for how Catholics engage those two religions, but for all the church's interfaith relationships.
1. Intercultural, not Interreligious, Dialogue
Pope Benedict is notoriously skeptical of interreligious dialogue, on the grounds that it can imply a surrender of identity on both sides. He prefers what he calls "intercultural" dialogue, meaning joint efforts to defend shared social, cultural and political values -- especially vis-à-vis what Benedict has memorably described as a "dictatorship of relativism" in the West.
In practice, that means that rather than debating doctrine, Christians and Muslims should work together on matters such as the right to life, care for the poor, multilateralism in foreign affairs, and a robust role for religion in public affairs. That's what Benedict had in mind when he proposed an "Alliance of Civilizations" between Christianity and Islam during a May 2009 speech in Amman, Jordan.
The primary aim of inter-cultural dialogue is practical cooperation, not doctrinal reform. Islam is a natural vehicle for that approach, because Muslim religious leaders often share Benedict's concerns about watering down their identity.
What would an "Alliance of Civilizations" look like on the ground? For one thing, it suggests that the natural home of a European Muslim middle class could be political parties that defend traditional morality and encourage believers to bring their faith into the public square. To some extent this future is now in Germany, where, as ironic as it may sound, a small but growing number of Muslims are becoming Christian Democrats. Or consider the Philippines, where one of the country's main political parties is known as the "Christian Muslim Democrats," a fusion of center-right parties of both Christian and Muslim inspiration.
Benedict's trip to Africa in March 2009 offered a classic example of what intercultural dialogue looks like in practice. When the pope asserted that condoms are not the solution to the AIDS crisis, it triggered blowback in Europe but striking displays of support from Muslim leaders in Africa. For instance, Sheikh Mohama Oussani Waziri, the deputy imam of Cameroon's national mosque, told NCR his only regret was that Benedict had not waited until arriving in the country to make his statement, so they could have delivered it together.
Intercultural dialogue also dovetails with what I've described as the "evangelical" thrust in Catholicism today, premised on a strong defense of traditional Catholic thought, speech and practice. In an era of identity concerns within Catholicism, theological innovation is not the order of the day, but efforts to defend shared values resonate well.
2. Support for "Healthy Secularism"
During Benedict XVI's Sept. 2008 trip to France, he endorsed what French President Nicolas Sarkozy has dubbed "positive laïcité" -- a French term for which there is no exact English equivalent, though the usual translation is "secularism." The basic idea is that religious freedom and church/state separation are positive things, as long as they mean freedom for, rather than freedom from, religion.
The emergence of Islam as the church's central interfaith preoccupation has turbo-charged support for "healthy secularism."
Proof can be found in the Middle East. Squeezed between two religiously defined behemoths, Israel and the Muslim states which surround it, the tiny Christian minority has no future if fundamentalism prevails. Their dream is to lead a democratic revolution in the region. That outlook reflects a basic law of religious life: secularism always looks better to minorities who would be the big losers in a theocracy.
Momentum towards healthy secularism in Catholic thought has implications well beyond the Middle East.
In both Europe and the States these days, there's considerable debate about the political role of the church. Critics, including many Catholics, sometimes argue that bishops are "too political." Americans, for instance, are still chewing over the role the U.S. bishops played in the health care reform debate.
If there is a force in Catholicism capable of balancing the scales, it's likely to be the relationship with Islam, and the perceived need on the Catholic side to offer a credible model of the separation of religion and politics. That points to a keen irony: The specter of shariah might do more to give Catholic leaders pause about blurring church/state lines than a whole legion of liberal Western theologians.
3. Beyond 'tea and cookies' dialogue
Today's core issue for the Vatican in dialogue with Muslims these days is "reciprocity" -- a bit of Vatican code for religious freedom. The idea is that if Muslim immigrants to the West can claim the benefit of religious freedom and the rule of law, then religious minorities in the 50 or so Muslim majority countries in the world, as well as sub-regions of other nations where Muslims dominate (such as the northern states of Nigeria), should get the same deal.
The classic example usually cited by Christians is Saudi Arabia. The Qur'an is considered the national constitution, and public expression of any religion other than Islam (more specifically, Wahhabi Islam) is prohibited. The ban is enforced by the Mutaween, or religious police.
Today there are an estimated three to four million Christians in Saudi Arabia, most of them "guest workers" in the oil business or in domestic and service industries. According to official Vatican data there are 1.25 million Catholics in the country, the second largest Catholic population in the Middle East after Lebanon. Those numbers help explain why reciprocity has become the cornerstone of the church's agenda for Christian/Muslim dialogue.
That emphasis on reciprocity is like a tremor, signaling a shift in the tectonic plates of Catholic psychology.
As long as Judaism was the paradigm for inter-faith relationships, Catholic thinking often began and ended with repentance. Because the relationship with Judaism unfolded in the shadow of the Holocaust, and centuries of Christian anti-Semitism, the natural Catholic instinct was for an examination of conscience -- how the theology and the praxis of the church went wrong, and how it needed to be reformed in order to be more tolerant of other faiths.
With Islam as the paradigm, however, Catholics are more inclined to push back. To reverse the classic Biblical image, Catholics are learning to see not only the mote in their own eye, but the beam in the other's -- to object to the lack of religious freedom, the crisis of authority, and the rise of extremism in some Islamic societies. Most Catholics would think it obscene, for example, to engage any Muslim leader these days without at least mentioning the mounting attacks on Christians in Iraq.
To put all this into a sound-bite, the church's approach to interreligious dialogue is moving beyond the tea-and-cookies stage, where the point is simply to be polite to one another. Today a more balanced form of engagement is emerging, which promises more substantive, but also more potentially combustible, conversations.
4. A preferential option for the Shi'ites
Shi'a Islam represents only about twenty percent of the global Muslim population (the vast majority of Muslims are Sunnis), but Shi'ites make up 75 percent of the population in the critically important Persian Gulf region, which produces 30 percent of the world's oil supply. There's a "Shi'a arc" stretching from Lebanon on the Mediterranean coast to the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, with Iran at its core.
Experts today talk about a "Shi'a surge" within Islam. Conversions to Shi'a are occurring in places such as Egypt and Syria. Forces driving the trend include Iranian-sponsored missionary activity; the fact that Iraq has emerged as the first Arab state led by Shi'ites; and the rising star of Hezbollah in light of its success in the July-August 2006 war with Israel, coupled with the appeal of its charismatic leader, Hasan Nasrallah.
In the 21st century, the Shi'a branch of Islam is likely to become the primary object of Catholic efforts to engage the Muslim world.
Sunnis, in many ways, are the Protestants of Islam -- congregationalist, lay-led, devoted to scripture alone. They even have some of the same problems. Without a strong center of authority, Protestantism in the West sometimes struggles to stand up to secularism; Sunnis, who often lack credible "official" leadership, sometimes have a hard time discrediting radicalism.
In intriguing ways, Shi'ites are much more "Catholic." There's a strong emphasis on clerical authority; an approach to the Qur'an accenting both scripture and tradition; a deep mystical streak; devotion to a holy family (in the case of Shi'ites, the blood relatives of Muhammad) and to saints (the Twelve Imams); a theology of sacrifice and atonement; holy days, pilgrimages, and healing shrines; intercessory prayer; and strongly emotional forms of popular devotion.
Though the comparison is hardly exact, a study of Islam offers clues to a great historical counter-factual: What might Christianity look like if Catholicism had failed to hold the line in southern Europe in the 16th century, and had become the minority Christian tradition?
Catholicism is the only Western form of Christianity with a presence in traditionally Shi'a cultures, such as the Maronite Catholics in Lebanon, Syrian and Chaldean Catholics in Iraq, and Armenian and Chaldean Catholics in Iran. Catholics can engage Shi'ites in a way that Western ambassadors and United Nations officials never can -- not only on a political and humanitarian level, but from within shared spiritual and religious commitments.
Final Thought
In sketching these implications, I've tried to stay on a descriptive rather than prescriptive level -- presenting what's actually happening, rather than passing judgment on it. If there's an "ought" to be deduced from this series of "is" statements, it's simply that Islam matters.
The relationship with Islam demands the best efforts of the whole Catholic church, not simply a narrow caste of dialogue experts. It has to penetrate beyond conversation with the Islamic "moderates", who, as Cardinal Angelo Scola of Venice has pointed out, tend to represent an intellectual avant-garde. Catholics need to reach out to what Scola calls "traditionalist" Islam -- the overwhelming majority of faithful Muslims who aren't looking for some post-modern hermeneutic on their faith, but who also want to live in peace.
If you don't believe that deserves to be a towering Catholic priority, go ask the people of Our Lady of Salvation in Baghdad.
* * * * * *
A note to "All Things Catholic" readers in the Cleveland, Youngstown, Erie, New Castle, and Pittsburgh areas: I'll be at the Villa Maria Education & Spirituality Center in Villa Maria, Pennsylvania, on Nov. 11 for a day-long presentation on two hugely important trends from my book The Future Church: Evangelical Catholicism, and expanding lay roles.
Information can be found here at vmesc-adult.blogspot.com/2009/08/john-allen-future-church.html, or by calling 724.964.8886.
Even if you've heard me talk about the book in other venues, we're going to focus in depth on these two trends in a way I've never done before, and I'd love to have you join the conversation.
[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His e-mail address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
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John, thank you for a
John, thank you for a masterful exposition of a subject with multiple implications not only for the Church but for all of society as well.
Aside from the enlightening
Aside from the enlightening description and comparison of the two main factions of Islam, John avoided explaining what everyone knows to be the elephant in the room, namely the relative silence of the Islamic leaders condemning the barbaric attack on Catholics during Mass in Iraq. Fifty plus Catholics, women and children included, were murdered their crime being inside a "den of Idolatry". The excuse that two wives of Coptic priests converted is nonsense and seeks to find explanation other than pure religious hatred for Christians in general and Catholics in particular. What is needed is not simply more dialogue but immediate, clear, and condemnatory Islamic declarations that such behavior will lead to eternal damnation and a loss of Heaven for any Muslim that commits such acts. The rest as St Augustine might say "is just straw"
John, you left out something
John, you left out something that also influence the Christian-Islamic relationship: the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by the United States, supposedly a Christian nation.
Have any of your read Paul
Have any of your read Paul Moses' "The Saint and the Sultan?" It shows how the kind of dialogue that occurred during the fifth crusade between St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan Malik al Kamil could help show us the way to promote peace between Christian nations and their Muslim counterparts. Indeed this should be a towering priority for all: Christians and Muslims alike.
I had heard of that exchange,
I had heard of that exchange, but had no idea that there was any record or representation of that, or that it had actually happened. I thought it was a Fransiscan legend without historical basis. Thank you, I will see what Moses' interpretation looks like. Do you think it's St. Francis or Moses we are reading in this book?
Mr. Allen, there's only one
Mr. Allen, there's only one way to deal with Islam: Convert Muslims to Christ. Seriously. I realize that goes against conventional wisdom but what has dialogue accomplished? Has dialogue reduced the number of innocent people (Christian and non-Christian) murdered by Muslim "extremists" (even of their own faith)? Has dialogue encouraged responsible Muslim religious leaders and theologians to move against those who take Allah's name in vain? Has dialogue resulted in the "reciprocity" that the Pope and other Catholic bishops desire so much?
Mr. Allen, you miss one fundamental difference between Jews and Muslims. Jews are not committing suicidal genocide (the ultimate definition of suicide bombing) against innocents. Rabbis and theologians are not encouraging Jews to act in this matter. Indeed, any Jew worth his faith would find such behavior abhorrent.
The fact that the Church has never adequately dealt with Islam's disregard for the innocent reflects Catholicism's growing moral flaccidity, if not outright bankruptcy, in geopolitical matters.
This is THE salient point in
This is THE salient point in any exchange with Islam. The moslems that just "want to get along" need to condemn this abhorrent activity if we are to take them seriously. That means condemning the offenders and groups by name and by incident, loudly and inequivocally. So far this has not happened, and, I must admit, i don't expect it to.
None of the Christian leaders
None of the Christian leaders have ever criticized the 932+ lies Bush and his cronies fabricated to invade Iraq (a Muslim country). Bush went to Pope before war and got his blessings. Before the war, Bush and senior Bush put sanctions on Iraq to weaken and destroy the culural center of Islam.
US- a chritian country - had provided platform of rift between Iran and Iraq and provided chemical and weapons of mass destruction to destroy each other by putting seeds of hatred amongst Muslims. Pope never condemned these things - probably blessed these ideas as a promotion of christianity.
Iraq war has created hundreds of thousands of widows and orphans in Iraq and are everyday looking at opportunities for war anywhere in the World all with the help of Churches. Christians in Muslim countries are used by USA and Christian establishments to spy on those countries to weaken those countries.
Christians are the biggest supporters of Israel that has occupied Palestinians land and Christians thru UN. US sanctions such persecution and provides Military assistance to humilate Muslims in the whole world.
Christians do these acts because they think all their sins have already been forgiven and they can support all these crimes.
Actually, Jews (by name only)
Actually, Jews (by name only) are are committing suicidal genocide in Palestine. They are suicidal because they sacrifice their own people for the sake of a false god called "Zionism" and they are genocidal because of their efforts to exterminate the Palestinians.
Also, Islam, as well as Catholicism and Judaism, has never stopped re-garding innocents. Muslim leaders have in no uncertain terms condemned acts of terrorism and oppression of non-Muslims.
Well, if 138 scholars out of
Well, if 138 scholars out of 1.6 billion Muslims are willing to talk, there must be hope for peace.
lets pray for the
lets pray for the perseverance of their faith...
"Let's pray for the
"Let's pray for the perseverance of their faith"? Fr. Benedict Groeschel has prayed to God "to give Muslims the grace to understand the rest of us."
John, I appreciate the
John,
I appreciate the thought you have put into describing the situation with Islam. I feel that every time the dialogue with Islam is approached from a westerner, it turns into an intellectual discourse that rarely mirrors the real situation on the street. Having a dialogue with Islam, especially the traditional wing, means that we must subjugate ourselves to the rules of Islam. I say this because Traditional Islam has already set the necessary preconditions and precepts to carry out any sort of dialogue with non-Muslims, especially the Christians, the People of the Book. Without having these preconditions met by the non-Muslims, then it is useless to argue, think, invent, or voice out your sides of the arguments. These preconditions include servitude on the part of Christians to Islamic law, Shariah. Whether you like it or not, Islam has already put us under its jurisdiction and has already determined what course of actions and treatment that we will receive, and that is nothing else other than second-handed citizenry. Just ask any Catholic, or any Christian from the Middle East who have lived under the tyrannical rule of Islam.
Islam has to drop some demands from its code of law. These demands are the following:
1-Jizyah (What moderate Muslims refer to "poll tax," which incidentally has to be paid while the Christian is "degraded, humiliated and made miserable."
2-The label "kaffirs" or lightly translated infidels, against Christians and Jews.
3-physical Jihad (This is impossible and will never happen)
4-the policy of containment or boxing of other religions, especially Christianity. This means that we have to have freedom to preach our religion just as they have the freedom to preach theirs.
5-Killing of apostates.
6-Dropping the physical punishment of those who break the Sharia law.
Since all these points are embedded in Islam, I am very skeptical how far our dialogue will advance. It's impossible for any Traditional Muslim to even think about dropping any one of these Islamic doctrines, which clearly violate basic human rights.
IF these demands are not dropped, then everything we say or do to advance the dialogue with Muslims is nothing more than a "noisy gong" and a "clanging cymbal." Islam is bound to use force to implant itself all over the world.
I noticed very little press
I noticed very little press on this horrific act of terror against Iraqi Christians. Not in the West nor in the Muslim world. It was ho hum business as usual. At the same time the UN Human Rights group, laughable, included nations like Iran castigating the US for human rights abuses.
Muslims need to be held accountable for these things and their muted reaction to them. I suggest the book The Closing of the Muslim Mind by Robert Reilly. It illustrates the truth of what the Pope said at Regensburg. The Sunni rejection of the role of reason explains a great deal of why they do what they do. But we cannot tolerate the ongoing persecution of Christians in the Islamic world.
Obesity does not appear to be
Obesity does not appear to be a major problem
for Mulim people.Maybe their religious beliefs
and practices keep them healthy.Effective life of restraint?
Edward Pender
The Christian communites of
The Christian communites of the middle east are under siege. We need to pressure the governments of these nations, which tend to be Islamic States to protect their Christian minorities. In Iraq especially, Christians have endured horrific persecution in the past few years. These ancient but small Christian communities cannot be allowed to be wiped off the map. Western Governments and Pope Benedict must engage the Islamic governments to do more.
They are our brothers and sisters and we cannot forget them.
May the God of Peace
May the God of Peace reconcile the Muslims to one another.
As usual John Allen gives us
As usual John Allen gives us a scrupulously refined statement on Catholic/Islamic dialogue. Thanks, John. Would that grassroots Catholics would internalize the insights you have offered and press their bishops to reflect on them as well.
This was a very interesting
This was a very interesting article which seemed to cofirm much of when I worked in Iran during the time of the Shah. At that time Shia seemed quite extraordinarily catholic above all with the central place of the murder of Ali. The chador made women look like Mediterranean peasants of my youth Every home had pictures of the saints and devotion to many female saints including Mary. I met many who were genuinely religious in the sense of caring desperately for their neighbours although there were also many usually younger people with a more authoritarian pharasaic form. The Shah was widely regarded as flashy and vulgar and distrusted for his policy of collectivisation. The gentle humanity of the Mullah Nasruddin was deeply part of the culture. There was however such an intense distrust of Sunni and its strange women's fashion of face masks that I have often wondered how coexistence works, for example in Bahrain. I have often wondered how much of these memories are of a world that no longer exists.
Great article, John, as
Great article, John, as always. I have just come back from Paris where I went to see the new French movie, Des hommes et des dieux, based on the 1996 assassination of the seven Trappist monks at the monastery of Notre Dame de l'Atlas in Tibhirine in Algeria. The movie is powerful, well-researched, brilliantly acted and moving beyond words. Central to the movie's theme is the situation of Christians living in an Islamic land. The Trappists demonstrated an extraordinary commitment to living a spirituality of encounter at the basic human level of work, everyday exchanges and prayer. Terrorism has not destroyed this endeavour. If anything, judging by the number of conferences, books, encounters and initiatives that the Tibhirine tragedy has spawned, the desire of Christians (specifically Catholics) to become involved in face-to-face dialogue with Islame has increased. This may not be the case in the USA where the Ground Zero Islamic Center controversy and the on-going and related political contexts diminish the prospects for dialogue.
Mr. Allen This was a very
Mr. Allen
This was a very good article!
Sir, How may I obtain a copy of the two talks that you will be giving on Nov 11 at Via Maria, Pennsylvania?
Thanks for all you do to build the Church which Christ founded.
In prayer
C.J.
In this piece, John Allen has
In this piece, John Allen has presented a very thoughtful and insightful descriptive analysis of the Catholic/Muslim reality. In particular, I found three points he makes quite telling: the shift in the center of gravity of the model for interfaith/intercultural encounter/dialog from Judaism to Islam; the potential shared structural realities between the Shia tradition of Islam and Catholicism; and that the conversation between Islam and Catholicism needs to take place in real time and not only in theological ivory towers. Much to ponder on here.....
Excellent column.
Excellent column.
Mr. Allen's article is great,
Mr. Allen's article is great, expecially having us see that we can work with Mulsim's in many ways.
Christians got along very well in Iraq until we destroyed Iraq's societal structures. Also, other Muslims have been attacked as much as Christians. Now terrorists groups exist, growing on the hatred of the foreign invaders, usually seen to be christian (the USA). If some Muslim country would have taken over France and Spain and destroyed them for 10 years, how would we feel and think?
John, you have been a
John, you have been a favorite reporter of mine for a long time. I have read your books. I was probably one of the few Jews in the audience at Notre Dame College in Cleveland last week to hear your talk. Wonderful as it was, I must tell you that it scared me somewhat. In the last 25 years I have come to believe that the Catholic universe has come to terms with its behavior during WW II. This is comforting to Jews as we are now facing almost two billion people who express great hatred for us daily. To have the entire Catholic world turn its face away from us and towards Islam is scary. We are only thirteen million worldwide, as you stated, and will eventually need the protection of a large religious group as the Islamic world grows in both size and hatred. Do not abandon us; we need you.
@ Anonymous Jew Do not
@ Anonymous Jew
Do not fear...Muslims do NOT hate Jews---they are simply against injustice and the person who practices oppression and injustice. Please extend a hand in friendship to a Muslim and find out for yourself instead of being afraid.
@J. Allen
Interesting but very "Western". It sounds as if Catholics simply want to exploit Muslims to further their own agenda both political and social....?
Instead, it would have been better if the attitude had been one of MUTUAL co-operation---one based on mutual respect. Then the Question would have been---How can Catholics help Muslims be better people and How can Muslims help Catholics be better people? Both religions are on a quest to "submit to God's will" and we can help each other in this quest.
Sharia---many of its principles have already been adopted by the "West" for example, the idea that all people are equal under the law, all people are innocent until proven guilty, That there should be a balance of powers between those who apply justice from those who govern....etc. And Yes, these ideas are also found in Jewish law---the Halaka. ----but then, peace and justice are part of God's will.
Quran, Surah 3 verse 104
let there arise out of you a band of people
Inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right,(good deeds) and forbidding what is wrong (bad deeds): They are the ones to attain felicity.
This sounds like something Jesus Christ (pbuh) could have said. Muslims and Christians may have different ideas on the nature of Jesus Christ(pbuh) but we both follow the same message that he was trying to teach---to become better human beings by struggling to follow God's will.
Very insightful piece John.
Very insightful piece John. There's one glaring omission however: the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. If that hadn't happened I doubt Iraqi Christians would find themselves in the dire situation they find themselves in today. Under Saddam Hussein they even enjoyed a certain amount of respect. The problem today is that they are seen as co-conspirators with the west. What tragedy! And where's the west when they need them?
I think Pope Benedict's stand on "intercultural", rather than inter-religious, dialogue is spot on. At the heart of both Catholicism and Islam are two fundamentally different world views, which are ultimately irreconcilable. The best we can do is see some of our shared values while recognising our many differences.
Liberal Protestants on the other hand seem quite happy with inter-religious dialogue even they don't seem to know what that entails. The Archbishop of Canterbury suggested once that Britain should adopt Shariah Law. Shariah Law! That is a set of laws which is completely incompatible with civil laws in most western countries. We have to be careful not to compromise our own beliefs while we engage with other religious groups.
KM's reply is only half of
KM's reply is only half of the problem (i think actually mentioned in the article: how can two religions talk when BOTH refuse to give up on the idea that any talk can only lead to the conversion of the other? even the jewish-catholic dialogue is overshadowed by the catholic (not jewish, BTW) requirement that ultimately (some undefined moment in the far future) jews will accept christ?!
anonymous' reply is funny - once again stating that the only reason for dialogue can be catholic guilt over the holocaust and ending in the words "we need you"
we don't.
full stop.
the jewish nation has existed all this time IN SPITE OF, and the Jewish state WITH ABSOLUTELY NO HELP FROM the catholic church.
it would be nice if some kind of agreement can be reached whereby the church receives all it wants vis-a-vis property and taxes in israel in return for some kind of guarantee that it will battle against (vatican sponsored) jew/israel baiting such as the recent synod.
however, based upon israel's incredibly bad negotiating skills (leaving gaza in return for more misiles, ceasefiring at lebanon in return for a re-armed HZBL threat, leaving sinai in return for a cold peace.... ad nauseum) chances are the vatican will receive all and israel nada.
so yes, dialogue with islam all you want. pray that you dont talk all your way to oblivion.
Among the world religions
Among the world religions Islam appears to carry fundamentalism to its extreme. This is not according to my interpretation of Islam but that of someone born into a Muslim family with a deep understanding of the Koran, the Hadith and Sharia . A major source of this understanding is the book ‘Why I Am Not a Muslim’ (1995) which was written under the pseudonym of Ibn Warraq.
Warraq shows that the Koran evolved over several centuries (just like the Christian Bible), and is filled with contradictions, absurdities and incomplete thoughts (again, just like the Bible). As for Islamic tradition and practice, Warraq shows how Muhammad simply incorporated a number of elements from Arabia's Pagan history into his 'new' religion.
Perhaps the most important thing demonstrated by Ibn Warraq is that Islam is fundamentalist by nature, and not by some peculiar and aberrant recent development. All Muslims, not just the fanatics, believe that every word of the Quran is quite literally the word of God,
But Warraq's best work is done in showing exactly how dangerous Islam really is. Beginning with Muhammad, violence, intolerance and human rights abuses have been part and parcel of Islam to this very day. This cannot be ascribed to isolated Fundamentalists, but is built into the very core of the religion. Islam is Fundamentalism - it cannot be otherwise.
Islam was never a religion of tolerance and it is not tolerant by nature. Despite the way the apologists would like to depict it, Islam was spread by the sword and has been maintained by the sword throughout its history
There is no way that Islam can reform itself and remain Islam, no way can it ever be made compatible with pluralism, free speech, critical thought and democracy. Anyone convinced they already possess the truth have no need for such things.
Islam succeeded through aggression and intimidation. The early Islamic conquests, for example, were extremely aggressive:
"Islam, in particular political Islam, has totally failed to cope with the modern world and all its attendant problems-social, economic, and philosophical." Nor does the author hold out hope for improvement. Take the matter of protecting individuals from the state: "The major obstacle in Islam to any move toward international human rights is God, or to put it more precisely . . the reverence for the sources, the Koran and the Sunna ."
Ibn Warraq's assessment of Islam is exceptionally severe: the religion is based on deception; it succeeded through aggression and intimidation; it holds back progress; and it is a "form of totalitarianism." Surveying nearly fourteen centuries of history, he concludes, "the effects of the teachings of the Koran have been a disaster for human reason and social, intellectual, and moral progress."
The apologists of Islam dishonestly tried to play down the terrorism and barbarism of the group they themselves insisted on calling "Islamic fundamentalists" by insisting that these latter had nothing in common with the real Islam - "the real Islam is peaceful" they claimed, "the real Islam respects human rights, the real Islam treats women as equals, etc."
When he imposed the death sentence on Rushdie, Khomeini was but following a precedent set by Muhammad, the founder of Islam, himself, who was not above getting his revenge or settling disputes by political assassinations.
Jihad as Warraq shows, is clearly enjoined by Islamic Law, and there are numerous passages in the Koran which exhort the faithful to kill the non-believers or non-Muslims. Warraq also explodes the myth of Islamic tolerance - Islam conquered by the sword, and in the process destroyed Eastern Christianity and the ancient Persian culture, looting and burning churches and fire temples; devastated India and plundered literally thousands of Hindu temples.
The sorry plight of women in the Islamic world is also shown by Warraq to be a consequence, a logical consequence of the misogynous principles scattered throughout the Koran, the Hadith and the Sharia: a woman is seen as inferior in every way, both morally and intellectually; she can only inherit half the amount that a man does, her testimony in the court of law is worth half that of a man; she cannot marry a non-Muslim, she cannot divorce her husband, certain professions are forbidden to her, and so on.
Warraq underlines the totalitarian nature of Islam, showing why it is incompatible with respect to human rights. Not only women are inferior under Islamic Law, but so are also non-Muslims living in Muslim countries. Nor does one have the right to change one's religion or belief under Islam - an apostate is to be killed.
My only quarrel with this
My only quarrel with this article is I have found Protestants to be for spirit filled and open minded than many Catholics and certainly most Muslims. To put all evangelical Protestants into one narrow-minded catagory is quite narrow minded and shows a lack of understanding of the various Protestant movements, including Quakers who are evangelical and one of the "peace churches", not to mention the Episcopal Church, normally thought of a liberal who see themselves as Evangelical. Other Evangelical churches more conservative on issues of abortion and homosexuality that one thinks of as "Bible" toting Christians are surprisingly loving and spirit filled. I would rethink lumping all Protestant Evangelicals into one hat and dismissing them all as narrow minded and rigid. They run the spectrum of religious thought one normally associates with open-minded persons.
Religion is stupid. All this
Religion is stupid. All this text wasted over whose version of an imaginary sky daddy waving his magic wand is ridiculous. Just saying. But continue with your delusion-fest.
As a Catholic American
As a Catholic American citizen who has studied Islam and Islamic terrorism at length I find this dialogue useful as presenting the dilemmas we who attempt to be both Christian and patriotic confront. In my most pessimistic moods, I believe it will take the Catholic Church to contain and resist the global encroachment of subversive Islam which is willing to utilize western traditions and legal systems of tolerance to establish beachheads where fundamentalist Islam will secure itself for continued efforts to displace and replace traditional Judeo-Christian cultural, legal, and political systems. Islam can not admit to full religious tolerance between equal faiths and separation of Church and state in any western sense as this is contradictory to religious doctrine; to do so is unfaithful to Islam as the only truly just government is one ruled by the Koran. That moderate Muslims resident in the west fail to discuss, address, or pressure these precepts and remain overwhelmingly silent as Islamic terrorists continue jihad does not give me confidence of a peaceful solution through dialogue with those same religious moderates. The solution to the extremist threat remains one of elimination; actually impossible, but as a degree of normalcy settles in, counter terrorism agains Islamic jihadists will be an aspect of global security for decades to come. The intellectual challenge to pressure moderate and other Muslims to confront their dilemma of internal contradictions of their faith will take continued efforts by the Catholic Church based on legitimacy and historic precedent. During my less pessimistic moods, I hope for positive aspects of Islam-family, morality, and conservative of natural law to be brought forward and become part of the dialogue. I lived in Muslim countries for 3 years and found rural areas to be safe and supportive of diverse individuals, but the Muslims were not very well 'churched' or knowledgable of possible interpretations of their holy book, not unlike many Catholics and Christians also. I pray that extremist interpretations do not become the standard, but I fear that such efforts of educational extension as funded by Saudi Arabia are not nearly transparent or tolerant enough. My last comment as a defender of the successful Judeo-Christian foundation of the west is that any time one hears Allah Akbar used, we freely offer Issa Akbar as our educational efforts to teach tolerance and acceptance. Amina.
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