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PDF versionIncivility hurts the pro-life cause
by John L Allen Jr on Sep. 11, 2009
One bit of gallows humor in Catholic circles is that sometimes the worst enemies of the pro-life movement are pro-lifers themselves. The point is that a handful of activists occasionally come off as so shrill, so angry and judgmental, that fair-minded people simply tune out the pro-life message.
That’s horribly unfair, of course, to the vast majority of people involved in pro-life efforts, who in my experience are respectful, idealistic, and eminently rational. There’s just enough truth to the perception, however, to make it worth a brief examination of conscience.
Sr. Carol KeehanCases in point are offered by the health care reform debate and the Kennedy funeral, both of which have occasioned some truly nasty commentary – much of it, naturally, in the blogosphere. Two Catholic personalities in particular have found themselves in the line of fire: Daughters of Charity Sr. Carol Keehan, president and CEO of the Catholic Health Association; and Basilian Fr. Tom Rosica, head of Salt and Light TV, a national Catholic network in Canada.
Both, I should acknowledge, are friends, and it pains me to see both facing unwarranted personal attacks. For that reason, I’m permitting myself to set aside my normal journalistic detachment in order to make a point.
I came to know Keehan when she began leading annual trips to Rome for board members of the various Catholic hospital networks in America, the purpose of which is to foster great understanding and a deeper sense of common cause between the Vatican and leaders of Catholic health care in the United States. (In the interests of full disclosure, I’m usually part of the program for these visits.) Sr. Carol enjoys obvious trust in official circles; when Benedict XVI came to America, she was part of the medical team travelling with the pope. Over the years she’s emerged as an important spokesperson for Catholic health care, including the church’s unambiguously pro-life position.
Fr. Tom RosicaMy friendship with Rosica dates to 2002, when he was the chief organizer of Pope John Paul II’s visit to Canada for World Youth Day. Since then, we’ve bumped into one another in a variety of settings. He’s perhaps the most truly “catholic” guy I’ve ever met, not only in the sense of speaking multiple languages and being a man of the world, but someone obviously in love with the whole depth and breadth of the Catholic tradition. He’s also a talented entrepreneur, as his performance with World Youth Day and his success in building a TV network from the ground up illustrate.
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Both CHA under Keehan, and Salt and Light under Rosica, have positioned themselves firmly in the Catholic middle. They’re faithful to the doctrine and discipline of the church, but also “non-partisan” in the sense of being open to a variety of temperaments, outlooks, and experiences.
For their trouble, both now find themselves under siege.
In Keehan’s case, the blast came from a blog operated by the Kansas City-St. Joseph diocese. In an August 6 posting, writer Jack Smith accused Keehan of “being at odds with the USCCB and the pro-life cause” on health care reform. (A USCCB spokesperson promptly denied that assertion.) Smith pointed to Keehan’s annual salary of $856,093 – which, as he noted, is turned over to her order – to suggest that she’s essentially a highly paid shill for the health care industry. The post has metastasized on the Internet.
With Rosica, the drumbeat stems from a pro-life website called “LifeSiteNews,” which prior to the Kennedy funeral invited readers to send protests to Cardinal Sean O’Malley in Boston. Some pro-life activists wanted Salt and Light to make a similar appeal to its viewers, which Rosica declined to do. He argued that it’s not the role of his network to put pressure on the bishops, and in any event, Salt and Light isn’t even an American operation.
When Rosica wrote a commentary appealing for calm, LifeSite posted an article setting him in opposition to Raymond Arroyo, a news commentator for EWTN who was openly critical of the funeral. (For the record, Rosica says that Salt and Light actually has good relations with EWTN.) That piece, according to Rosica, generated more than 500 hostile messages from people whipped up by the “LifeSite” coverage – some so ugly and threatening that they couldn’t be published for fear of triggering legal repercussions.
Of course, there’s plenty of room for legitimate discussion about judgments calls Keehan and Rosica have made. Maybe CHA should indeed push harder about abortion in the health care debate; maybe Salt and Light should have given more space to critics of the Kennedy funeral. In principle, there’s also nothing wrong with asking where a group that takes positions on public policy gets its money, and how that funding might influence its judgments.
I’m certain both Keehan and Rosica would be the first to acknowledge that raising such questions is entirely fair. There’s a world of difference, however, between respectful disagreement and character assassination, and some of what we’ve seen in recent days doesn’t just cross that line but obliterates it.
There’s much more I could say, but I’ll restrict myself to this: If Sr. Carol Keehan or Fr. Tom Rosica are your idea of enemies of the faith, it’s time for a reality check.
Moving forward, it’s important that influential Catholic leaders, particularly those with the greatest credibility in pro-life circles, find ways to call off the rhetorical fireworks. They don’t help the pro-life cause, and good people end up as collateral damage.
Abraham Lincoln once said, “I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.” Pro-life activists, like everyone else, ought to remember that this principle also works in reverse.
* * *
I spent most of this week in São Paulo, Brazil, giving a couple of talks at a conference on church communications. It was organized by the International Institute for Social Sciences, which is an Opus Dei-affiliated institution.
Brazil is, of course, the largest Catholic country in the world, and it’s an important point of reference for the life of the church all across Latin America. (Among other things, the current president of CELAM, the council of Latin American bishops, is Brazilian Archbishop Raimundo Damasceno of Aparecida.)
In many ways, Damasceno had the best line of the week. Apropos of communications strategy, he said: “It’s not enough for us to speak in the name of the Lord. We also have to act like the Lord.”
His point was that making pronouncements will rarely be persuasive if they aren’t backed by the credible witness of Christian life, down to the nitty-gritty details of how church officials and ordinary Catholics alike treat the people in their lives.
I posted a few blog entries on my experiences in Brazil, which can be found on the NCR Today blog.
One footnote: The two Americans scheduled to speak at this conference were myself and Ari Goldman, a former New York Times correspondent (and author of the terrific book The Search for God at Harvard) who now teaches at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. As it happens, I was forced to apologize for our stupidity, because neither Goldman nor I realized that we had to request visas to get into Brazil. At the last minute, therefore, both of us faced the prospect of not being able to make the trip.
In the end, I made it but Goldman didn’t. Conference organizers were able to get both of us special permission to enter Brazil without a visa, but that didn’t solve the problem of boarding our flights. Air carriers can be charged heavy fines if they allow people to board international flights without a visa, so they tend not to be moved by someone who swears to have permission but who doesn’t actually have the paperwork.
Goldman was turned away for his flight in New York, but I managed to persuade the good people at Delta Airlines in Atlanta to let me go ahead. Truth to be told, I flashed my letter of invitation to conference, which was in Portuguese, and described it as a “special entry permit.” Moreover, I made sure to do so after the regular boarding process had already begun, so that the desk agent didn’t have too much time to think about it. That strategy, admittedly a little slippery but in service of a good cause, did the trick.
A few Italians friends of mine were also in São Paulo this week, and they immediately told me that my years in Italy have served me well … I’ve developed an instinct, they said, for finding a way around seemingly rigid rules and structures, something the Italians long ago turned into a fine art.
Abortion is the new Meat on
Abortion is the new Meat on Friday: it's a badge of Catholic identity to be against abortion. You don't even have to know why it is wrong. But you are supposed to accuse those not as vocal as yourself of not being real Catholics.
Nemesis writes: "it's a badge
Nemesis writes: "it's a badge of Catholic identity to be against abortion."
I thought the badge of Christian identity was the strength and courage to love our enemies.
I remember once hearing an old hymn: "You'll know they are Christians by their Love."
Now it's by our condemnation to eternal hell of others and their associates in any way?
I must have missed that memo.
I'm still stuck at Love thy enemy.
or
Love thy nemesis.
I hate to pick on Desert
I hate to pick on Desert Chuck, because I could just about pick on any comment in this thread, but DC has become a project for me, so all you others just pretend you're the Chuckster this time.
So DC, how is a mother killing her unborn baby in her womb, or somehow defending that action, (like redirecting the argument to civility rather than the issue of abortion), showing love for our neighbors?
And you got the subject and object confused in your musical audition for NCR Idol...it's "They'll Know We Are Christion by Our Love".
ps. someone got close to the truth, and I don't remember whom because I replied to DC only, when they compared abortion to slavery in the 1850's. Abortion has nothing to do with choice anymore than slavery had anything to do with states rights. Slavery was EVIL then just like abortion is EVIL now. I hope that was civil enough for all you abortion enablers, I guarantee you that God will not be so civil with you at the Last Judgement.
and pps. Randall Terry's oraganization did NOT support the nutjob who killed Tiller the Babykiller.
JDS isn't God. JDS stated: "I
JDS isn't God.
JDS stated: "I guarantee you that God will not be so civil with you at the Last Judgement." So you're now in the judgement business JDS? Really? What did Frere do to deserve that? Show me where Christ was uncivil w/ Caesar and his practice of infanticide, abortion, genocide, and crimes against humanity? Show me just one verse from scripture where Christ condemned Caesar directly, took up a cause against Caesar, just one? Since Christ didn't speak out against Caesar, and his practice of abortion, infanticide, genocide and crimes against humanity he then was an enabler, like Frere is an enabler for abortion? Using your logic, God will not be so civil with Christ? It's love your neighbor, but you forgot the other half JDS, love your enemy. According to your post it sounds like you have a hard time with that command. He has "become a "project for you? What are you a bully? Furthermore, stop calling him "Desert Chuck", his name is Frere Charles, show him some respect. You think you're clever, but your not. Your bullying arrogance is palpable.
Q: Are you the example of the
Q: Are you the example of the incivility that this article speaks about?
A: Yes.
Commentary: You prove John Allen's point: You hurt the pro-life cause.
Yes, my brother
Yes, my brother Benedictine.
While some of God's people are loudly and harshly proclaiming what they are "against", it almost seems they have perhaps forgotten Who and what they are "for".
Prayers...
Your sister, Frances.
DEO GRATIAS
DEO GRATIAS
We love them by showing them
We love them by showing them Christ's light so that they can save their souls from eternal damnation. Sometimes that requires a tough variety of love. Let me give you an example. I find myself in serious sin from time to time. The priest I usually go to for the sacrament of reconciliation acts as if it's no big deal. I went to another priest at a different parish before Christmas and he yelled at me and humiliated me.
Who do you think loves me more?
There is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd priest loves me, just as their is no doubt in my mind as an adult that when my parents scolded me they did so out of love, to make a point, so that I would not continue to make the same mistakes.
The classic Christian definition of love can be found in chapter 13 of Corinthians 1. In it, Paul tells us what love is and isn't. Permissiveness is never love. Sometimes love is telling a person what he or she doesn't want to hear, but if it is told from a desire to help them achieve salvation, then it is the greatest love of all.
"Badge of Catholic identity?"
"Badge of Catholic identity?" You don't have to be Catholic---or religious at all for that matter---to be appalled at legalized killing of people whose existence is inconvenient to others.
I know that it is easier to
I know that it is easier to reduce issues and motivations of those who think differently to a simple "one size fits all". But the truth is that often times the decision for an abortion is much more complicated than simply being "inconvenient". If you care about the abortion issues and about those women struggling with the decison of having an abortion, it would be best if you were willing to step out of the box you have put these women in and study what some of the reasons actually are.
Thank you, John David...
Thank you, John David... well said.
I've always believed that the
I've always believed that the term "Pro Life" meant the respect for human life from conception to 'natural' death. I view right wing pro-lifers as only anti-abortion advocates. Their strong views on capital punishment negates their veracity of being "Pro Life." I have also quit listening to Catholic Radio because it's daily format of anti-Obama rhetoric is tiresome. Their final election eve assault was sad. I believe it was Johnette Benkovic who was shrilling that most of the babies aborted in this country are BLACK!!!
As a regular observer at an
As a regular observer at an abortion clinic I assure you that most of the babies being aborted in this country are BLACK. Sad indeed.
Thanks for your own efforts
Thanks for your own efforts to try and inject some civility into the discourse. In the last weeks, I joined an online group advocating pro-life political change. "Great!", I thought. But their communication is mostly along the lines of "More lies Obama tells." Which is hardly constructtive, or even necessarily true. It is, however, self-righteous and uncharitable. I also made contact with a local group which counsels women in problem pregnancies, now that I have time to volunteer. The first thing I received from them was an invitation to a fundraising dinner honoring a vitriolic politician from the right-wing. I begged off and told them "I think I should just pull out from volunteering."
There are nasty elements out there in the political world, as we all can see. It has infiltrated these supposedly pro-life groups in a very insidious - and I believe in the end - destructive way.
I have asked each group, "What are you doing that is constructively advancing the goal of no Federal funding for abortion?" Other than more right wing cant, neither has shown me anything that contributes to the debate. In fact, one of them has taken to attacking ME on my Facebook page, rather than answering the question. It is all disheartening.
Is it possible to get Salt
Is it possible to get Salt and Light network here in the US?
Sister Elaine, Salt and Light
Sister Elaine,
Salt and Light TV network is not available in the United States. However, the network can be watched online through its website 24/7:
http://www.saltandlighttv.org/prog_slprog_live.html
Anonymous, Thank you for the
Anonymous,
Thank you for the information!
Many of the fine programs
Many of the fine programs produced by Salt and Light are available on The CatholicTV Network.
see: www.CatholicTV.com
Right on the mark again John!
Right on the mark again John! Some are so shrill that many write off all Catholics as a bunch of nuts. I think your "Power Distance Index" would also apply here. Sites like Lifesite, EWTN, Diocese of KC/St. Joseph etc probably have a "negative" number for their Power Distance Index. In other words, they have no credibility and everyone should run as fast as they can from them. People hear them NOT because they are large in number or represent anymore that a tiny minority of catholics but because "the squeeky wheel gets the oil" and the remaining 95% of catholics are just fine w/ the church and we are just sitting on our laurels. IT'S TIME FOR THE MODERATE AND PROGRESSIVE MAJORITY TO WAKE UP! Otherwise we will all be painted with the same brush stroke and we will all look like a bunch of fundamentalists. They can quote encyclicals but couldn't recognize a quote from Christ to save their lives.
Real NCR readers: It's nice
Real NCR readers: It's nice to be able to read, early on, comments from fellow NCR readers before the shrill conservative police are notified by the traddie, conservative and father xyz sites, and given their marching orders to come to this site to flood it with their comments with "cut and paste" pieces possibly w/ the intention to crash this site.
Thank you for your
Thank you for your observation, Dr. Dale.
I had been puzzling over the commentary of those who clearly hold a strident disregard for NCR and its regular readers. What could be the motivation for such aggressiveness and vitriol? Why bother reading or posting on this site? One such comment in this thread claimed to pray daily for our "complete destruction". It seems to be only for the sake of venting pathological rage.
A supposed 'theology of life' is entirely undone by such murderous rage directed at one's brothers and sisters in Christ. It doesn't work on us, and it is even less likely to work when they engage non-Catholics. In the gospel account, our Lord equates such interior rage and contempt with the overt exterior act of murder (Matthew 5:20-24).
Yes, it's been reported that
Yes, it's been reported that they do the same thing at other sites. It was reported in Cardinal Sean O'Malley's blog that they did the same thing to his site recently when he attempted to explain his reasons for presiding at Sen. Kennedy's funeral. Now, of all people, Bishop Morlino in Wisconsin wrote that it was actually "sinful" for those who judged and wanted Sen. Kennedy to go to hell and not have a Catholic funeral! Aileen, God works in mysterious ways and is still in charge!
Who was that scholar always
Who was that scholar always on NPR getting interviewed by LBJ's old speechwriter?
yeah, Bill Moyers, right?
Was it LBJ?
Oh, yeah,
Joseph Campbell!
And how did Joe always sum up the mystery of our world's myths and legends:
"Seek your bliss!" or something like that . . .
If these here folks are all so very very angry at the National Catholic Reporter and those of us who read her responsibly . . .
If these folks are so mad at us who love our Faith so much . . .
Why do they not just "seek their bliss!"
I am not saying as they say "Leave MY Church!'
But dudes, get happy already!
What part of the Holy Spirit are you revealing today?
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
How odd. You correctly
How odd. You correctly praise John Allen for encouraging certain pro-lifers to be more civil, but then become decidedly uncivil and toward all right-wing Catholics, stereotypical them all as fundamentalists.
Do you not see you hypocrisy?
Where did I say "all right
Where did I say "all right wing Catholics" Michael Healy, Jr.? It was clear that I was referring to those conservatives who are sent over and flood the site. Go over to Fr. McBrien's Perpetual Adoration Site and see for yourself the garbage the right wing is throwing at him if you don't believe me.
"who are sent over and flood
"who are sent over and flood the site"...
And apparently go running back in tears and fits of anger? Because they sure can't hang around long enough for a conversation anymore. Ah, for some real conversation back-and-forth again, as in days of old on the cafe!
Annie, don't forget the good
Annie, don't forget the good coffee too!
John, the time for a call for
John, the time for a call for civility is long gone. The genie of hate and anger is out of the bottle and neither you nor anyone else is going to be able to put that genie back.
That was the real message of the Notre Dame brouha over President Obama. The highly organized squeaky wheels got all the grease. Why would they ever turn down the volume. Or why would sites like Lifesite news ever encourage turning that volume down--it makes them too much money.
And it isn't just on this one
And it isn't just on this one issue that civility has gone by the boards.
Just read a little about the proposed childhood sexual abuse legislation being discussed in New York.
The prize for the height of incivility has to go to Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of the Diocese of Brooklyn for publicly threatening to close the parishes of legislators who vote for the proposed Child Victims act that would lengthen the current statute by a few years along with allowing for a one year civil window for previously time barred cases of childhood sexual abuse - by anyone!
Wouldn't a threat like that against a member or members of the legislature violate some federal statute or, at the very least, doesn't such action by DiMarzion violate the separation between church and state?
Aren't we all as representatives of Jesus Christ supposed to protect the most vulnerable among us?
DELAWARE REMOVED ALL STATUTES OF LIMITATION IN REGARD TO THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN WITH THE 2007 PASSAGE OF THE CHILD VICTIMS LAW.
IT ALSO PROVIDED A TWO YEAR CIVIL WINDOW FOR PREVIOUSLY TIME BARRED CASES OF ABUSE - BY ANYONE.
Jesus has some harsh words for those enablers who put children in harm's way by not dealing with known sexually abusive bishops, priests, sisters or nuns when he said in the gospel of St. Matthew, chapter 18:5-6:
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
Col, my brother wrote for
Col, my brother wrote for Lifesite's top competitor and neither of them regularly made payroll.
The issue is that the extremists are asking the question if abortion ends a human life (a scientifically indisputable fact), then is it not murder? If mass murder is being condoned and even sanctioned by the civil government what is the appropriate level of response? Is 'civility' the only option? Is it an option at all?
I can't say that I have a strong moral opposition to those who would destroy abortion mills without causing injuries. I can say that I disagree with violence towards people. A large part of the ineffectiveness of the pro-life movement is that it trusts too much in the civil process which has failed to correct this horrible practice.
Certainly Obama's oft refuted assertion that abortion will not be covered under this plan is not helping the debate stay civil. Nor is his insistence that only those who agree with his plan have a place at the table.
ht
HT, civility never hurt a
HT, civility never hurt a cause. What has hurt the pro life cause is not their trust in the civil process. It was the abuse of that trust by the Republican party who promised them the world (under 20 years of Republican presidents) and delivered virtually nothing except for the Hyde ammendment. The Hyde ammendment passed with some Democratic support, which is NOT what is happening with Republicans in the health care debate.
When Obama says aboriton will not be covered under his plan, he is talking about the bill he will eventually sign in the future. Not the HR 3200 plan which is already dead.
Obama has repeatedly asked for Republican input and even put McCain's pet idea on the table. It looks to me like Republicans want to be the sole writers of this bill, not participants in the discussion. And even if that were to happen they would still find someway to insinuate that Obama was tricking them in order to pursuit his 'agenda'.
The real issue here is not abortion or health care, it's Obama. God Bless President Obama for refusing to engage on that level.
You are telling me that with
You are telling me that with President Obama insisting that abortion will not be paid for with tax money he is saying something BAD? I don't get it.
Isn't it kind of a waste of
Isn't it kind of a waste of time to hope and work for something that's never going to happen? Women are never going to go back to bearing far more children than they can possibly support. What will happen is superior birth control methods will be developed which make abortion largely unnecessary. But you can't talk about that or work toward that either, being Catholic. So what's the point of being in the debate at all? Why would someone spend their life demanding that women bear too many children? It's like spending one's life insisting that the world is flat.
Do you think they might
Do you think they might respond to the suggestion that they are "giving scandal" to others to such an extent that they are driving away many others who might be ardent workers for the Pro-Life cause except that they refuse to be associated with such vicious and vitriolic people?
No? Then they really aren't serious about building an effective movement as much as they are just looking for an outlet for their pathological rage.
That last paragraph says it
That last paragraph says it all. The "prolife" --more accurately anti-abortion-- crusade has evolved into an outlet where they find a certain camaraderie and a "religious" excuse to vent their patholigical rage.
yup. http://www.lifesitenews.
yup.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/sep/09091101.html
John: I'd like to know your
John:
I'd like to know your opinion of the episode of "Penn & Teller: Bulls---" on the Vatican, which aired on Showtime a couple of weeks ago. The magicians laid waste to the Bush administration's decision to free the Vatican and the pope from lawsuits by plaintiffs in child sexual abuse cases, as well as the church's position on gay marriage and, yes, abortion. I'm surprised nothing has been said about it.
There's plenty of anger from both sides out there and you're right, incivility is seeming to be the primary focus of many in the faith. I'm not sure if this is particularly Christ-like or not.
It think the point John Allen
It think the point John Allen was making was that the incivility is undermining the cause not that incivility comes only from those who claim to support the Catholic Church. Do Penn&Teller or Showtime profess a higher goal than providing entertainment?
Thank you John for speaking
Thank you John for speaking the truth about the antiabortionists being their own worst enemies.
Truth be told, I was a dues paying member of the American Life League. After reading their magazines which were so filled with self-righteousness, judgmentalism, intolerance, and hate, I realized their work could not be the work or fruits of the Spirit. Today, I lean more pro-choice politically due to the words and actions of many so called "pro-lifers."
Why in all this 'debate' is
Why in all this 'debate' is no one mentioning those precious frightened mothers who feel like they have no choice BUt to abort because information is NOT made available to them. I see NO adds for shelters for pregnant women on this site....NONE. WHY??? That's not politics, it's a real NEED. Politics quite frankly, is useless, both parties are long gone to the culture of death. Women need protection from being coerced into choosing abortion. Why are there no adds for pregnancy shelters and services to support women choosing life on THIS site? I think that is a valid question. Women feel pressured to have abortions all the time. Society is not friendly to the lonely and usually poor pregnant woman. And ironically, the more liberal secularism takes over the more our culture is becoming increasingly cold to the needs of the helpless and poor while many church stand silent by letting the culture of death run amok over it's most helpless lambs.
I mean no contempt for anyone, I know many of you here really do mean well, but I think it is because of your ignorance of the true issues at hand that so many of you are so calm and somewhat clinical about this horrible issue. If you really ...REALLY comprehended the horror of abortion on the woman, not just the baby, you would do EVERYTHING you humanly could to stop it. You'd be fasting and praying! I understand, but from where I stand I can only conclude you are all ignorant, because HOW can anyone ever knowingly support the dismemberment of helpless human beings and the exploitation of frightened women??
All this talk is meaningless. I personally know the frustration of pro-lifers because I am one, true blue dyed in the wool pro-life. If you've never wept in front of an abortuary you really can't understand the real issue. I see women and girls who are exploited and hurt by abortion. It fills me with nightmare like horrors. You would be horrified too if you stood for hours, praying, forced to be silent while you watched woman after women literally being DRAGGED into those filthy clinics (many clinics so filthy they might as well be back allies!!) by boyfriends, husbands and parents while the police/ security guards look the other way and make sure you stand behind the line.
I speak the truth.
Abortion really is the UN-choice.
http://www.theunchoice.com/
Please, open your minds and hearts...it's not a 'debate...it's life or death.
I have quite of bit of
I have quite of bit of knowledge about the infamous "Lifesite" blog and can assure you I don't know of any other website that is so uncaring, vile, mean, hatefull, threatening and obsessed with only two issues: homosexuality and ... abortion. Their mission is to ATTACK anyone and anything that is closely or even remotely associated to both! (The Canadian section has been closed as it violated the national hate propaganda legislation.)
Life Site News is not a blog,
Life Site News is not a blog, it is is a news service! They have their own reporters working for them on salary, like any news service does. They focus on family and life issues. They are always charitable, their facts are well-checked. Your characterization of them is uncharitable and inaccurate.
The LifeSite online news
The LifeSite online news service focuses on abortion and homosexuality, NOT on family and life. They are anti-choice and pro-death penalty. They are NEVER charitable and their facts are most often unchecked. Like other extreme right-wingers, they lie and thrive to hurt other people. NOTHING in them or their reporting ever reflects the Good News of Jesus, the Christ.
As I wrote previously, the Canadian branch was forced to close because it contravened our country's decency legislation.
A couple of years ago I tried
A couple of years ago I tried to trace their corporate links to find out who their parent corporation was and wound up on a CIA reroute site. I thought that was interesting.
That is really interesting!
That is really interesting!
ABSOLUTELY!!!! and one more
ABSOLUTELY!!!! and one more -incivility hurts the Body of Christ no matter who is doing it for any reason. One can be adamant without derriding another person's humanity. And only ones without sin can throw stones. There is more than enough in the Body that is not Christ to diable any of the faithful from holding stones - or denying the Body of Chrsit to another struggling member of the Body.
Well said and very much
Well said and very much needed to be said, thank you.
I too think the genie is out
I too think the genie is out of the bottle. Just look at what happened at the Presidents speech the other night. He was called a liar for saying what he WANTS in a bill - not for what is in a bill, but for what he WANTS. Now how do you lie about what you want to see in a bill? It was outrageous especially when the republicans (and it was a republican who said it) commonly site the "rule of law" for a standard. When we break the rules of town meetings and congressional speeches what will we stop at? Total anarchy? Will that wake people up?
I don't know Sr. Carol
I don't know Sr. Carol Keehan, but I do know Fr. Tom Rosica, and John Allen is completely right in what he writes about him. The bottom line in the pro-life struggle is CHANGING HEARTS AND MINDS. Of course the law should protect the unborn - as it should protect all defenseless members of the human family. But all the laws in the world are useless if people don't believe in them. We experienced this in the 1920s with Prohibition. It was well intentioned but, because so widely disregarded, it turned out to be a disaster by turning over the trade in alcohol to criminals. Abortion, like slavery in the 1850s, is not a religious issue. It is the No. 1 CIVIL RIGHTS issue of our day. Like slavery, it raises the question: "Who is a member of the human family?" A national organization devoted to changing hearts and minds about abortion, and doing so very effectively, in the Vitae Caring Foundation, headquartered in Jefferson City, MO., but active nationally. Through carefully crafted TV and radio ads, and placards in buses and subways, they are significantly lowering the number of abortions in places such as NYC, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and even bastions of academic liberalism such as Madison, WI. I have supported them financially for years. Check them out at www.vitaecaringfoundation.org.
Salt &
Salt & Light:
http://www.saltandlighttv.org/prog_slprog_live.html
Thank you, John. Clear and
Thank you, John. Clear and true. I had read both attacks and found it very disheartening. I am a Catholic sister and I know we are and will never be perfect, but I can tell you what a demoralizing experience it is to read similar genealizing, vitriolic, condemnatory blogs about religious women. Can we entertain hopes for a return to civil dialogue in that "big tent" which is, and always has been, our Church, open to saints sinners and most of us in-between? I hope so with all my heart.
Dear Mr. Allen, I feel
Dear Mr. Allen,
I feel grateful to some Pro-Lifers for their lack of civility. For some, to be Pro-Life is such a no-brainer, when in fact we should all rack our mind, soul and heart over the topic. Yelling and insulting have not yet replaced thinking and discerning. It takes different muscles, I guess :-))))
I guess I'm one of many who
I guess I'm one of many who has become a bit disillusioned with the sarcasm, condesencion, rudeness, and overall "I know better than anyone" attitude of many Catholic journalists and reporters of late. That attitude does nothing to promote anything for anyone. Instead it becomes devisive, negative and promotes a division within the Church, within society, and within the world. It really is time for folks to take stock of what and how they say things. I've always tried to see both sides of an issue before making up my own mind, but this assult, attack, disrespect, anger and superiority has only divided and will continue to undermine anything that may be tried or attempted.
Many need to take a few lessons from the Holy Father.
John, as usual, you are right
John, as usual, you are right on! The extremist fringe of the Catholic right is getting more shrill, angry and nihilistic. This "if you are not with us 100%, then you are against us" mentality did not start with the pro-lifers. It started with the Bush-Cheney administration's War on Terror. It was there that the American right-wing began to accuse anyone who did not agree with their campaign of invasions, lies and torture of a lack of patriotism. Now the Catholic right-wing accuses anyone who does fully agree with their Republican Party political agenda with a lack of Faith. The ghost of Joe McCarthy is alive and well.
Steve
With or against 100%,
With or against 100%, actually started with Jesus. He said, "If you do not gather with me, you scatter." Christ also said He came to bring division. The Life issue not only divides the Body of Christ with secular society, it is also dividing Catholics. We can argue all day long as to the legitimate tactics to advance the Pro-Life movement, but we should not let how we advance that issue divide Catholics. Everyone in this issue is called in his or her special way to get the message out. Stop telling others how to follow what Christ is calling them to do. Christ was the ultimate radical and this issue needs radicals as well as reason. The whole Church can unite with a multi pronged attack against the culture of death. It may mean conservatives and liberal catholics put aside party politics and unite, each with their own talents and methods. Otherwise the devil and Culture of Death win.
One of the challenges I face
One of the challenges I face in trying to be civil, is when I know that thousands of people are being killed everyday in America, and no one is stopping it. Once an individual or an enterprise decides that the loss of life does not matter, I cannot imagine them being dissuaded by "making nice."
That said, I'd love to read of evidence to the contrary.
Then ask your congressman to
Then ask your congressman to vote that the unborn are legal persons in this country with all rights. They won't do it but you can ask. The republicans like to say they are pro-life but they didn't make pre-born babies legal persons when they had total control - they didn't even try - so that tells me where they really stand. It was not the Democrats stopping them during the Bush years - they just don't really want to stop it so instead of yelling at all of us (who are mostly pro-life people here) tell your congressman.
In all the "noise" over the
In all the "noise" over the Kennedy funeral, where was the fuss about what a minimalist funeral liturgy it was? The assembly participation was abysmal, and (apparently) by design. Acclamations weren't sung (at least they eliminated the Gospel Acclamation since they didn't sing it), and the intercessions were more like another eulogy than prayers. It seemed that everyone who got near a mic took the opportunity to eulogize.
Eulogies belong at the wake service, and the Mass is supposed to be sung as much as possible, including (first and foremost) the Eucharistic acclamations. The Catholic Church lost out on a wonderful opportunity to show the world how lovely our liturgy COULD be.
Then again, was that "quick and silent" funeral the norm for the Boston area?
John, I can only add that
John, I can only add that incivility hurts Catholicism and its attractiveness to those seeking and needing Christ's healing and love.
Well, it has certainly pushed
Well, it has certainly pushed me away from the Republican party. Just too much hate. There always seems to be an emphysis on, not defeating the opposition, but destroying them. Always, always attacting the individual in the most personal way (not to mention the most distorted). I have looked to Christians to lead us to a more civil discussion, to demostrate a respect for the individual dispite disagreements. Unfortunately, more often than not, I have been very disappointed. We should be willing to see Christ in all others. It is not an easy task, I know (passions do run high), but if we are serious about our faith it is fundemental that we do this.
I have never posted on this
I have never posted on this site before as I just found it last night, but I wanted to respond briefly to Butterflys post. I and my husband are protestants, and we were thinking seriously of joining the Catholic Church this Easter. However, the pushing of right wing politics by so many Catholics, along with the incivility and animosity we find on some Catholic websites, has made us reconsider. It's beginning to look like the Catholic Church in America is a wing of the Republican party and that concerns us greatly.
Dear Disillusioned,
Dear Disillusioned,
I understand your frustration with the situation, but the November election and the percentage of Catholics who voted Democratic show otherwise. The Catholic Church is a 'big tent'/family with great diversity. It just happens that those who have gotten their theology entangled with extremist far-right politics are more noisy than the rest of us. The same goes for a minority of bishops. Every family has disagreements... and probably a 'crazy Aunt Sally' or two, that you wish you could hide in the attic when company comes.
.
There is no "perfect" church anywhere, not even the Catholic Church — because every church community is peopled with flawed humans. If you have heard the call of God, don't let ornery people keep you from the Eucharist and the graces our Lord desires you to have. Once you settle-in to the Church and find your niche, it won't seem so bothersome when the Catholic natives get restless and scrappy. Over time, you will also find a priest or two who will become invaluable long-term friends and spiritual confidantes.
.
Whatever you do, ...don't give up. A very wise and holy priest once told me that the folks in the Church who annoyed me the most were actually my 'ticket to heaven'. Those are the very folks who would force me to stay close to our Lord and his grace, just so I would be able to love those vexing people as much as He does. Truth be told, it's quite likely that I myself have been someone else's 'ticket to heaven' on occasion (smile).
.
Even on Catholic forums where the conversation becomes heated on occasion, I remember the words of the optimistic little boy surveying a big pile of poop he had to shovel... "there's got to be a pony in here somewhere!"
.
Welcome to the family.
Incivility? As Colkoch1 says,
Incivility? As Colkoch1 says, we're 'way beyond that. I understand that Randall Terry has become a Catholic, along with Newt Gingrich and who knows who else -- and Terry and his organization are supporters of the man who murdered a doctor in cold blood on a Sunday morning in his church. Time to step back and ask ourselves whether we really believe that all life is sacred -- including that of the 17,000 people who die every day in the US because they couldn't afford to see a doctor in time, or to pay for treatment. The current healthcare proposals do NOT change the federal policy with regard to abortions, and there is zero chance that Congress is going to vote to impose further restrictions as part of this package. When I went to Catholic college and university, we were taught to think for ourselves and make moral judgments. Is that a thing of the past?
I am especially concerned
I am especially concerned that the "lack of civility" problem is not limited to the abortion debate. We now live in a society in which Congressmen belive it is appropriate for them to stand up during a Presidential address to Congress and call the President of the United States a liar. I won't even go into the unpardonable behavior that greeted Congressmen and Senators when they tried to conduct town-hall-style meetings during the recent Congressional recess.
Being accussed of incivility, or simply bad manners, used to be something to be ashamed of. It now appears to be a badge of honor.
I couldn't agree more with
I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation, Ernie.
Being accused of incivility, or simply bad manners, used to be something to be ashamed of. It now appears to be a badge of honor.
The screaming, name calling, menacing mob mentality and sheer disinformation wackadoo, passing as public discourse is beyond astonishing. And, it destroys the credibility of the people who do it. In the midst of it all are folks carrying loaded weapons, just to prove they can. In the old days it would have been called what it is — ill-bred, trashy behavior. There's no excuse for it, and there is definitely nothing "Christian" about it.
Incivility is not limited to
Incivility is not limited to the political right wing---all those "Bush=Hitler" signs, and the personally nasty attacks on Sarah Palin were not exactly up to Emily Post civility standards.
visit: http://www.globaljusti
visit:
http://www.globaljusticemovement.org/get_involved.php
"On the one hand there is capitalism, an economic system governed by market forces but where economic power is concentrated in the hands of a few who own or control productive capital. On the other hand, socialism, in its many forms, is an economic system governed centrally by a political elite, with even more highly concentrated ownership and economic power. Logically, a third way would be a free-market system that economically empowers all individuals and families through direct and effective ownership of the means of production — the best check against the potential for corruption and abuse."
"Purpose of education is to teach people how to become life-long learners and virtuous human beings, with the capacity to adapt to change, to become masters of technology and builders of civilization through their 'leisure work', and to pursue the highest spiritual values." A.C.E.Network Mission
http://www.acenetworkmission.com/
It's so easy to call yourself
It's so easy to call yourself Pro-Life when you think all that means is to be anti-abortion. If these people would consider death penalty, unjust war, torture, etc. as part of their platform (and mean it!), they would garner so much more support.
And Colkoch1, you may feel the same exhaustion that I do - having defended Obama in the election, defending ND at their commencement, defending Health Care reform and arguing against death-panel nonsense. I'm tired of being in such a negative environment. Just listen to a.m. radio for a few hours and I actually find myself with anxiety and even depression.
My question is: Are we on this course of hostility for ever now? Probably so if there's money to be made.
Actually cat dancer, I'm
Actually cat dancer, I'm pretty optimistic about one thing. The condemnation and vitriol coming from the right is engulfing the right center and center. The more the right keeps fulminating the more the right center and center are moving left. They are forcing the silent center to make some decisions and speak up. This is all good. God does sometimes write with crooked lines.
"It's so easy to call
"It's so easy to call yourself Pro-Life when you think all that means is to be anti-abortion."
The appeal is not in its ease, but inasmuch as it's where to start. To put it another way, here's MY question: If I don't have the right to live, what use do I have for any other rights?
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