Excommunicated lay board dissolves itself, one member reconciles

Interesting development. Of course why should he have to re-recite the Nicene creed when he never renounced it to begin with? Even further, during the sacraments of initiation, nobody EVER takes an oath of loyalty to the church nor any specific bishop. This is a very disturbing element in this development.

It wasn't the Sacrament of Confession, silly. It was a public act of renouncement of his prior disobedience.

We owe loyalty to our God, not a bishop, who is human and not a divinely chosen king. I wonder if these men in high places in Rome shouldn't be put in small places where they can live in the real world with real people.

It seems that people in the church, who use the WAY of Jesus as their way of justice and love, are no longer accepted in the church. One gets the impression that we must die to the church to find Jesus. Out of the ashes, I look for the WAY I learned.

It used to be that every convert (I think they can still do this) and anyone under excommunication or interdict had to recite the Creed and pledge their loyalty to the Church and the local Ordinary. Its nothing new.

Secondly, if someone is baptized, confirmed, etc. the loyalty is presumed. When you publically break faith, you need to mend that injury and explicitly confirm your loyalty.

Lastly, Archbishop Burke did not break the seal of Confession, so that's a nonstarter.

He should laisicized and excommunicated for breaking the seal of the confessional. He is one of a number of rotten eggs in the clergy of the Church who does not understand that those of us of the lay community will no longer accept the idea of pay, pray and obey.

We as American Catholics are a force that the church is sooner or later going to have to face honestly and openly and understand that we are different from the rest of the lay community around the world who are so willing to allow themselves to be led blindly by the nose and blindly accept the authority of the Bishops and Cardinals.

We in the lay community in the U.S. have had our eyes opened by the events of the recent past (Sexual Abuse Scandals) that it seems that the Hierarchy both here in the US and in Rome want to forget about and they seem to be trying to force us back into willining blind compliance with their decisions.

Shame on people like Bishops Burke, Naumann and Cardinal Egan. You are not the kind of leadership we so badly need right now we need men of compassion and caring.

I find it amazing how many folk who call themselves "faithful Catholics" cheer when some priest or nun rebels against a bishop but then assume the laity of that parish or the donors to their order must continue to obey their lead as though nothing happened! If the principle of obedience no longer holds, then why should anyone listen to the breakaway priest or sister? We're not Catholics because we believe the bishop is king - but the same goes for the priest, the sister, the DRE, the local self-important "theological expert" (most of whom couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, theologically).

If you break communion with the Church Jesus founded 2,000 years ago and the 1.1 billion members currently alive today world wide, then that's YOUR problem, not ours and not the local bishop's. But renegades rarely see it this way. Being their own gods, pope, and moral centers, they feel completely at ease telling other people what to do while claiming an exemption for themselves. Just notice how angry they get with 'dissent' from within their own ranks!

Not a few 'conservative' parishoners have been dealt with cruelly by those who profess to be open-minded, progressive, future-church apostles who otherwise cheer disobedience to the hierarchy while demanding draconinan obedience to themselves. St John's 3rd letter is so timeless in this regard.

David C Gross,

Americans need to understand that the Church ISN'T a recent phenomenon, and has seen "Americas" of the past rise and fall. The Church shouldn't change itself to suit the trends of the latest global empire - it's up to YOU as a member of the Church to show faith, trust Her and follow the example of Her holy saints, martyrs and Popes who died to themselves in order to love Christ through the unshakeable Church He founded.

Human beings may make errors, but the Church will never fail. We request Her to change to suit our preferences and prejudices at our peril. That way leads to Protestantism.

God bless you, and keep well

In the Catholic world, newly-prdained priests DO promise loyalty to their bishop or religious superior and his successors. Sorry to burst the bubble of anyone who thinks the same discipline applied to, say, Unitarians, is in force here.

What a sad state of affiars for the Roman Church. One of the happiest days of my life was when I was recieved into the church. I was a political victim of a child abusing bishop. I felt that the church left me and I needed another ecclesial catholic home. I joined the United Indepedent Catholic Church and now am a diocesan bishop. We see the name for unitry in diversity, not unity in conformity. We accept all of God's children as equals in our church. At least my gifts are accepted and valued. God bless the parish of St. Stanislaus and I hope that it sticks to its rights.

The good bishop is not a diplomat. More like him would help the faithful understand that their faith journey will not always be fun. Obedience to things we don't like and don't understand is part of a faith filled love that God demands of us as Adam, Eve, Jobe, Abraham, Moses,Galileo and others have learned through time.

Funny to read about the church Christ established 2000years ago!!! Christ was Jewish and taught us to live in LOVE and NOT LAW. He formed communities of people coming together to celebrate our ONENESS OF BEING -- CHRIST WITHIN -- KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN, ETC., to break bread together and share the cup.

In all my studies I find no where that Christ founded the Church -- Catholic or Christian. Christ was doing just the opposite -- live in compassion and acceptance of self and one another as I do you. Starting of a church happened long after he walked the face of this earth. It was created by men of power just as the history of all religions tell us. Buddha didn't start Buddhism and so on down the line.

For more fun check your history and see who took the Apostolic lineage with them when the split happened!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares and what is the big deal.

Christ must be groaning with all this pomp and circumstance and craziness of misuse of power and belief systems totally missing the point of his powerful message.

We could get a life!!!!!!!!! and live the true teachings of Christ -- acceptance, love, compassion and nonjudgment of self and others. It is difficult to find an organized place for coming together in prayer who follows Christ's true teachings. Most of what is preached is all about fear and horrible we are, etc. Who can be ordained and who can't -- who can recieve the the sacraments and who can't -- who can I condemn to hell and who will I pronounce "saved".

Like it works that way. What strange folk we are -- how we accept others' power over us like they have it over us. Only if we give it to them does someone have power over us.

All of this "stuff" going on in St. Louis and the quotes from Archbishop Burke of what he is doing and has the power to do are laughable if it weren't so sad of how many lives are being hurt because of innocence of believing their hands, head and hearts are in his power.

My belief is we all create the learnings we want in our lifetime. So it all is just learnings folks are bringing to themselves to learn and grow. So I guess we should all just back off if we aren't involved and observe with compassion as each person sets up their learnings and send love. From Burke to every other person who thinks he/she has the power to pronounce with authority "you're saved" -- "you lost salvation"... Maybe we should all get out of the proverbial sandbox and stop "playing God", whatever that means. (G.O.D. -- Good Other Directed) Burke, it is okay to leave the sandbox. We've all read the story about "The Emperor Has No Clothes". It took a child to see it the way it was. Innocence!!!