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Women religious study to include 'soundness of doctrine'
Next phase has women religious heads filling out detailed questionnaires
Aug. 03, 2009
Mother Mary Clare Millea
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PDF versionThe woman charged with carrying out the investigation of U.S. women religious congregations last week sent major superiors letters containing information that for the first time confirms the Vatican-sponsored effort will involve an examination of “the soundness of doctrine held and taught” by the women.
When the study was first announced it was explained that it was intended to examine “the quality of life” of U.S. women religious, with an eye to finding out why vocations have dropped over the years. Initially, some women religious expressed confusion and skepticism concerning the purpose of the investigation. They questioned its intent.
Mother Mary Clare Millea, superior general of the Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the apostolic visitator charged by the Vatican with directing the study, sent a letter dated July 28 to the heads of women religious congregations, along with an Instrumentum Laboris, or “working paper."
The paper outlined the next phases of the investigation, including the thrust of a questionnaire that the religious heads are to fill out and return to Millea. The paper also explained in greater detail the focus of the Apostolic Visitation.
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Read Mother Mary Clare Millea's letter to the women religious congregation heads.
Read the full text of the "Instumentum Laboris and appendices."
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Phase one of the study, which included interviews with the religious superiors, ended July 31. Phase two calls on the heads of the orders to fill out and return questionnaires relating to the life and operation of the orders. Phase three involves visitations to selected congregations.
The areas of concern identified in the questionnaire include identity; governance; vocation promotion; admission and formation policies; spiritual life and common life; mission and ministry; and finances.
The Vatican investigation was initiated last December by Slovenian Cardinal Franc Rodé, who heads the Vatican’s Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. The working paper, distributed by Millea, comes out of his congregation. It specifies that Millea will be responsible for transmitting a detailed and confidential report to the congregation upon completion of the study.
The working paper also said that information about the congregations will be sought from local bishops.
The paper states: “The Apostolic Visitation will focus on the fundamentals of the religious vocation, including consecration by profession of the evangelical counsels through public vow within a particular religious institute wherein members exercise some external apostolic work(s). Particular attention will be given to the significant witness of the vowed commitment given by women religious within the heritage of each institute’s charism and in fidelity to the Church’s teachings and to the renewal indicated by Vatican Council II and post-conciliar documents. It will examine, for example, promotion and retention of vocations; initial and ongoing formation; the concrete living out of the evangelical counsels; common life and religious houses; the structures and practical application of internal governance; the soundness of doctrine held and taught by the religious; the nature and variety of apostolic works; and the overall administration of temporal goods.”
The Apostolic Visitation, the working paper explains, “is intended as a constructive assessment and an expression of genuine concern for the quality of the life of all members of apostolic institutes of women religious in the United States whether or not these institutes are manifesting signs of new growth or may have experienced decline during the last several decades.”
“The Visitation hopes to identify the challenges women religious face and to promote and encourage fidelity, integrity and growth within religious life.”
The heads of the women’s orders will receive the questionnaires in September and will be asked to return them by Nov. 1.
During the second phase, all U.S. women religious are similarly being asked to reflect on the questions in the working paper that major superiors will answer. Order heads are being asked to provide a copy of the working paper to all U.S. women religious.
In her letter to the order heads, Millea wrote: "Although this Instrumentum Laboris is being distributed directly to you, the major superiors of the institutes in the United States, success of the Visitation itself will depend on the active participation of all women religious in our country. For this reason, I am asking each of you to make this enclosed document directly available to every sister of your institute."
The working paper stated that after careful analysis of the data received in the questionaires, a representative sample of religious institutes will be chosen for on-site visits. These will begin in early 2010.
Finally Millea, the paper states, will “present a detailed and confidential report with recommendations to the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life.”
The paper also says that “if any sister wishes to express her opinion about some aspect of her religious institute, she may do so freely and briefly, in writing and with signature, specifically identifying her institute by title and location. In order to respect each sister’s freedom of conscience, any sister may send her written comments directly and confidentially to Mother Mary Clare Millea at the Apostolic Visitation Office" in Hamden, Connecticut.
It states that the on-site visits will be conducted by a team consisting of vowed religious who have been appointed by Millea, with the approval of the Vatican Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life.
All order heads have been asked to suggest names for possible visitors “in accord with criteria communicated directly to them.” To be eligible to be on a visitation team, women religious must first sign fidelity oaths to the Vatican and to their bishops.
The paper states that team visitors will speak individually with members of a religious community at the visitation site. “In so far as possible, every member of the community at a site visited will at least meet and greet one of the visitors during the on-site visit. Sisters who do not reside at the site who request to speak with a Visitor shall be permitted and welcomed to do so at the site visited.”
Dealing with the cost of the visitation, the paper states that ach religious institute or center chosen for an on-site visit will be asked to
provide hospitality for the visitors and assistants "and, if at all possible, transportation costs related to the visit."
The paper says that all visitors will be bound by strict confidentiality. “No Visitor will express any judgment either in writing or orally to the major superior or any other member of the religious institute visited either prior to or during or after the Visit. The Visitation Team will together prepare a specific and detailed report to be given directly to Mother Mary Clare Millea.”
Catholic News Service interviewed Millea last week and asked her who would be paying for the visitations. CNS reported that she declined to discuss specifics related to the study's cost, including how it is being financed. Millea told CNS that U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is not funding the effort.
"Anyone who has contributed has not wanted their name to be publicized," she said. "The (Vatican) congregation is conducting the visitation so they're ultimately responsible for financing it," she explained. "We have a project that is going to last three years. We are welcoming the support of individual dioceses, individuals or groups who would be willing to help defray the expenses."
The 341 religious institutes of women in the United States contain approximately 59,000 women religious. Communities of cloistered, contemplative nuns are not officially part of the study.
Meanwhile, the Vatican has opened a second investigation into the umbrella leadership organization of the U.S. women religious, the Leadership Council of Women Religious. The leadership council meets next week in New Orleans for its annual gathering.
Fox is NCR editor and can be reached at tfox@ncronline.org.
It does seem like the vatican
It does seem like the vatican is at this stage embarked on some unconscious programme to render catholicism nothing more than a marginal sect. Not only have we the spectacle of the institution's sheer contempt for women generally, but now we have them treating women religious who have been one of the major sources of inspiration in the last decades, like supsected dissidents in the old Soviet Union. Shame
Here is my take on what this
Here is my take on what this all about – the über-traditionalists trying to provoke an inverse, “constructive” schism within our Church:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/7/20/135043/796
and
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/7/30/132543/854
Dear Frank, Tears came to my
Dear Frank,
Tears came to my eyes as I read your two-part article. It resonated as truth — a very sad and tragic truth. The dominant religious powers in today's Church are actively seeking to orphan a majority of practicing Catholics who threaten their power. The focus on women — the desire to dominate them body, mind and soul — is particularly disturbing.
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The politics of the Church have never presented an attractive picture of the love and mercy of our Lord. Historically, whenever the Church hierarchy have swung en mass to the extremes, the concept of justice has been perverted to enable an unholy dominance for its own sake, having little regard for individual souls. In its hay-day of absolutist power the Church was known to persecute and even put its own to death — some like Joan of Arc would later be declared by that same Church to be saints. Today, absent the ability to imprison or kill its own people, the hierarchy has instead opted to use the Eucharist and reception of Holy Communion as a "reward" for adherence to rules, or by making life within the Church a miserable experience via continual "investigations" of laity... including religious women's communities. It is a corruption of power having little to do with Christian spirituality.
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The second Vatican Council closed its last session four months before I graduated from high school. The ensuing forty-plus years have felt very much like a wilderness wandering experience. In the early decades, information about the Council and its teachings trickled down through diocesan and parish channels. The average laity had no access to the documents — there was no Internet or means to "Google" for reliable information. The Internet age and rapid satellite communication has changed all of that. Well educated lay Catholics could read and learn for themselves what the Council taught — not the least of which was the importance of the individual conscience and freedom of religion (the right and duty of prayerful thought). This was coupled with an eagerness to read and study Scripture. Freedom of thought and conscience seem to be where the battle lines are drawn today. As one 'neo' Catholic writer gleefully phrased it, following the 'problematic' Council, John Paul II set in motion an ecclesiastical time bomb of appointments, set to explode and reverse the post-Council trends in the 21st century. That is where we are now. The harsh and heartless mantra is: 'submit to this male dominance and legalism, or leave the Church'.
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The all male hierarchy has become somewhat of a caricature of shepherding. The same men who denounced the murder of Terri Schiavo at the hands of her philandering husband (in accordance with a state law designating a woman the "property" of her husband), then gave episcopal permission for that same man and his live-in girlfriend (with whom he had illicit children) to marry sacramentally within the Catholic church. That was a direct violation of Church law, allowing a spouse and his paramour to marry each other after colluding in the death of the lawful spouse. It appears that Terri's only value as a woman and human person was her value as a media circus for a hierarchical political agenda. So why are we surprised at the disregard shown to women religious and the desire for male dominance over even their very thoughts — to re-clothe them in a Catholic 'burka' concealing their womanhood and its dignity?
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Jesus wept over Jerusalem — who killed its prophets; who engaged in all manner of religious elitist legalism and perverted the Law of God for political gain; who abandoned strangers, sinners, widows and orphans; who was consumed with nationalism and a desire for military might; — who rejected Him as Creator Lord, and his simple gospel of love for God and neighbor. I can't help but wonder if He now weeps for his Church.
There is nothing contemptuous
There is nothing contemptuous towards women in the Vatican's action. It is a legitimate exercise of its authority, and long, long overdue. The only criticism I have is that it is not being carried out on all religious (male and female). If it reduces the Church to a "marginal sect" it is because only those belonging to that "sect" are faithful to the Gospel. Jesus warned that that might indeed happen, and that in such a situation it is better to be in the minority than with the crowd. Better to safeguard the truth than to join the hordes in error. Let us pray that God's will be done.
You want your will done.
You want your will done.
This has nothing to do with
This has nothing to do with anyone's will, save the only One Who matters: Christ. Since the Second Vatican Council ended, there has been a mass misunderstanding of the nature of the Church. This is due, in part, to the nature of the council. In all previous councils, the Church fathers met to take some action related to heresy, schism, or doctrine. The previous councils defined and/or affirmed specific doctrine, ended specific schisms (or attempted to do so), and/or condemned specific heresies. The Second Vatican Council did none of those things. Rather, it attempted to take those doctrines that had been defined and affirmed throughout the centuries and update, not the doctrines, but the means by which those doctrines are communicated.
Regrettably, many in the Church, including members of the hierarchy, the priesthood and the consecrated life, saw the Council as an opportunity to update the teaching of the Church and make it more palatable and acceptable to the 20th century, which was never the Council's intent. They stripped the liturgy of its beauty, its timelessness and its mystery. They watered down the traditional teachings of the Church and were swept away, as St. Paul warned, by all sorts of false doctrines. They did all of this, and considerably more, under the guise of the "spirit of Vatican II" and on the basis of the idea that the Church belongs to each of us, its members: after all, if the Church is "ours" then we have the freedom and the right to define its nature. Thus, your comment that "you want your will done" makes sense in that context. After all, if the Church is ours, then truth ultimately comes down to "your will" or "my will".
But, what is finally beginning to again be recognized, after forty years of wandering through the desert, is that the Church is not "ours". My wishes, my will, for what the Church "should be" are meaningless, just as the will of everyone else is meaningless, because the Church does not belong to me, nor to anyone else. The idea of "MY Catholic Church" as so often expressed on these NCR comment boards, is patently false. The Church belongs solely to Him Who created and founded it, and Who sustains it by His infinite mercy and guidance: Christ Jesus. This is Christ's Church, not mine. And it is Christ, through His ministers, the Holy Father and the bishops in communion with him, who interpret the will of Christ for His Church. This was Christ's specific plan when He appointed Peter to shepherd the others. Christ did not set up a committee, nor did He intend His Church be governed by consensus. He knew full well the dangers inherent in any system wherein truth is subject to consensus, or, even worse, majority vote. Thus, He established His Church on the rock of Peter. Thus, Peter and his successors, and the Apostles and their successors (the bishops) in union with Peter, guide and govern the Church.
This is how it has been since the Church's beginnings. St. Ignatius of Antioch reminded us of that fact in the second century when he wrote "Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia": "Where Peter is, there is the Church". No matter how much one may will or wish it otherwise, no matter how much one may wish that the Holy See would not seek to insure that the teaching and ministry done in the name of the Church by women religious in this nation, the truth is that it is not up to us. Christ has established HIs Church according to His will. He does not ask our approval for His plans. He only asks whether we will be faithful to His will.
Dear Clint, Your superb
Dear Clint,
Your superb explanation of what happened before, during, and after Vatican II is the best I have come across in years, and one that priests, religious, and laity would do well to read. I thank God for great Catholics like you. Keep sharing your faith and thank you for so doing.
In Jesus and Mary,
A Hopeful Nun
Thank God there will be an
Thank God there will be an examination of the "soundness of doctrine." Many priests and religious men and women have traded adherence to doctrine for a political agenda. If they don't agree with the Church's teachings, they should do the courageous thing and leave!
Such a very Catholic
Such a very Catholic Christian response, "Just leave, then"...It doesn't show a bit of care for the multitudes who have been supported, taught, counciled, and challenged to grow as fully human Catholic Christians by our women religious as well as simply by women who make up the huge majority of people ministering in the Catholic Church in the U.S. Thanks to ALL who minister!
I was not aware you had been
I was not aware you had been appointed as God so you could call into question God's call to the cloth? Perhaps you need to lead this inquisition? Perhaps you have an inside tract?
Sadly it will not be a study
Sadly it will not be a study of the soundness of doctrine.
Very few Catholics actually understand the idea of doctrine - that is the formal teaching of the Church. Example: How many can explain the doctrine of the primacy of conscience?
Based on some statements from US Catholic Leadership - some of them don't understand or they hope those they lead don't understand Doctrine.
Looks like it is time for a Witch Hunt of the Holy Women.
Father Hesburgh as chairman of the International Federation of Catholic Universities from 1963 to 1970 led the movement to redefine the nature and mission of the contemporary Catholic university.
Maybe it is time for the US Women Religious to do the same.
Maybe those in charge of the
Maybe those in charge of the institutional church should be investigated for their degree of faithfulness to the Gospel of Jesus. That investigation is the most overdue of all!
How very Christian of you! I
How very Christian of you! I am sure you are a faithful and sinless Catholic.
fr. Joe Sanches
In other words, they don't
In other words, they don't agree with your political beliefs. Interesting. Well, then they must be wrong and investigated.
Adding salt to the wound: the
Adding salt to the wound: the communities must pay the travel and lodging expenses of the entire team when the team comes to visit.
The team is made up of uninvited guests; they or the Vatican should pay their way.
A Sister, Where is your sense
A Sister, Where is your sense of hospitality? Remember you could be entertaining angels from God. If you have problems with the expenses for these most distinguished guests, I will suggest to my pastor that we not take a collection for the Sisters in December and instead take the collection for the expenses of these guests. Perhsps all the parishes in the USA should do the same. If you had nothing to hide you would not be worried. Serve God with love!
I am not worried, so please
I am not worried, so please do not assume so.
And, in turn, the visitors may be hosted by angels themselves.
How about some respect?
The religious sisters of this
The religious sisters of this nation have my deepest respect, far more than any other group in the Church today, in the way they demonstrate their particular charisms and their understanding of justice and charity. They understand and live more of Catholic Christian tradition and community than anyone.
The uninvited guests very
The uninvited guests very likely being entertained by angels from God.
I for one would not give to a second collection to pay for the expenses of theses visitors. I prefer to give my money to support the many ministries of the good sisters.
It makes me really sad to
It makes me really sad to read responses like Milbo's. Nothing in his/her response sounds like something Jesus would say. Does it feel good to feel so right and hurl words like bullets?
linda, hurling words like
linda, hurling words like bullets is one of Milbo's specialties..... he is just acting his part like a faithful Pharisee, defending a faith without Christ, defending a faith with the law. The law is his faith.
I agree, it is very sad to read his responses. Nothing he says reveals that he really has met Jesus Christ. What is revealed is that Milbo needs to meet Jesus Christ and to invite Christ to live in his heart. But Milbo doesn't really believe that he needs Jesus Christ. He has found dogma is to be idolized instead and dogma as the Truth. But we know, Jesus is the Truth.
But from all I've read from Milbo, he has decided that doctrine is Jesus Christ. This is why Milbo is very uncharitable in his comments and cannot discern the truth of his own erroneous and cold hearted dogmatic ways.
Butterfly, my dear sister,
Butterfly, my dear sister, "he has decided that doctrine is Jesus Christ" ??? You are too angry to make a rational statement. Please explain what you mean by this. Truth hurts but it will set you free. Butterflies are suppose to be calm, gentle, and peaceful. Perhaps a more appropriate name for you would be "Pitt-bull" or "Hornet" or "Scorpion" Please be more gentle and more lady-like.
Milbo, you are always side
Milbo, you are always side stepping and when you are confronted with having to answer for yourself, you do not answer, but you howl like a starving wolf in a hen house. Please explain yourself.
Is Church doctrine more important to you than Jesus Christ's teachings for us to love one another? Please, try to answer instead of calling me names like "Pittbull" "Hornet" or "Scorpion." The truth hurts, but here it goes: You are the one being mean-spirited.
Butterfly, I am consistent.
Butterfly, I am consistent. You are not. I say the same thing to the members of the Society of Saint Pius X and arch-conservatives as well as the far left and other fringe groups--liberal and conservative. If someone is not happy. leave. If you knew your Scriptures, you would know that Jesus let the rich young man walk away because the rich young man did not want to conform to Jesus' message and way of life. Butterfly, I know from your previous posts that you have no tolerance for those who disagree with you. What do you say to SSPX? Your tirades are irrational. Jesus is whom I worship but I believe in apostolic succession and respect institutional leadership. You obviously do not. Your personal attacks are disturbing. Butterfly, I pray for you and ask that you pray for me. I am not giving up on you my dear little sister. I love you like an older and wiser brother who has a special fondness for his naughty and foolish baby sister. I will continue to correct you when you are wrong, educate you when you are misinformed (which seems to be always) and most importantly pray that God softens your hardened heart. Peace my dear sister, Butterfly.
Dear Milbo,(the Voice of
Dear Milbo,(the Voice of Reason?????)
Who are you to correct anyone on this site?
You are not the older or wiser brother of Butterfly or anyone here---so stop the arrogant patronizing.
The people who write on this site have the right to express their understanding and feelings on various situations. You do not know their experiences or closeness to people involved.
And one more thing, Milbo---you think that you embody REASON---but your practical experience of being either a woman or a woman religious is zero.
Little Bear, are you a women
Little Bear, are you a women religious? An answer to that question may explain some of your illogical statements in the past.
Milbo, Milbo, Milbo, you need
Milbo, Milbo, Milbo, you need to begin to understand that love is not logical. Love is not logical. Love is not logic.
A heart is not full of logic, but it can be filled with love from God. If we are truly grateful for the gift of love from God to us, we will share that love with everyone, even those we disagree with. Look to the example of Christ in the Gospels.
Love is never logical. You cannot explain God's love with logic. If I do not make sense to you, it is because you are of this world and have not entered into His Kingdom yet. His Kingdom is at hand, but you do not believe in His love, in His Holy Spirit. Enter into His Spirit of love.
You believe in your logic. Period. Logic is not love. Big difference in how one perceives reality.
SSPX is not part of the
SSPX is not part of the Catholic Church. When will you people who read nothing but the NCR actually realize that?
SSPX ??? What is SSPX?
SSPX ??? What is SSPX?
Oh by all means, Milbo 1,
Oh by all means, Milbo 1, let's deprive the aging sisters of such things as health care, by all means. Your sense of justice and charity overwhelms me this afternoon.
Annie O, perhaps I can give
Annie O, perhaps I can give you a lesson in economics. If the Sisters have X dollars for activities and they are given more dollars they can do all the political activities that they do that represent their political agenda. If the extra dollars are taken away from them, they would have to choose between helping the retired and infirmed sisters or their political activities. With the present leadership of Women Religious, they would probably decide to euthanize the older sisters rather than give up the far left agenda they endorse. Is this too complex for you to understand?
Milbo 1, You have no idea
Milbo 1, You have no idea what you are even talking about. I would suggest you look into what these good women have done and are still doing for all people. The schools they ran for the immigrants in the past, the hospitals they started and ran. Every thing they did for very small stipends. Even now they are running soup kitchens for the homeless and other selfless interprises. I think you just need to cease and desist until you know what you're talking about and not what you think you know.
Why do you assume that the
Why do you assume that the "present leadership of Women Religious... would probably decide to euthanize the older sisters"?????? What a pathetic thing to say!!
Why do you say this Milbo? Where do you get such stupid and ridiculous assumptions from?? Please supply us with some information that might enlighten us to this allegation against the sisters that you believe is the truth?
Is it really rather not based in truth but on a lie, and on what is inside your own mind of hatred towards women that would lead you to make such a charge????
Please supply us here with some documentation, not hearsay or just from your mind. Yours is a wicked condemnation of these sisters that I have found to be holy women. Yours, I believe, comes from a hatred for women and fear of women, that women should conform to your idea of women, not Jesus' intentions or purpose for women.
Be a gentleman, and do not call me names. Do not make charges against women who are serving the Lord. Do not accuse them of doing wrong, when they have done no wrong.
If they are over 75 and sick,
If they are over 75 and sick, Obama Care will "counsel them as to end of life options."
There are many people who are
There are many people who are jittery about the idea of living wills and such, and would rather just let other people make those decisions for them. You, perhaps, Anonymous, are one of them. Or perhaps you are just an ideologue. Or some other scenario.
To get to the issue:
Many other people are doing living wills and such on their own OR as soon as they learn that it is even a possibility. I would guess that you favor a culture in which people who know they have that option will make that choice, and all others should not because they are too poor or stupid to have learned the legal options that they have.
But if you believe that the Church believes that a person has to utilize all possible technology to keep themselves alive indefinitely on machines, you are wrong.
Of course you sign on as
Of course you sign on as "anonymous" with that stupid, bald-face lie about our President and euthanasia. Apparently you are not only critical of the Sisters, but one of the lunatic fringe who show up uniformed, ignorant and insane at the town hall meetings, without any intelligent discourse or alternative. Are you on Medicare, Medicaid, received health care from a Veterans hospital or clinic? Anyone you know? How about dropping out of it and then writing about our president. You know quite well, or you choose to listen to that Oxhead Rush L. there will be nothing but the OPTION to receive counseling - perhaps by an educated and compassionate Sister - to let you decide how you want your inevitable end to be. Home, hospice, family present, priest there, music, whatever. Now stop being covertly racist, anti-the Good Sisters and go to some old conservative priest for some serious penance. And stick to the subject, Anonymouse. This is about the ludicrous attempt to exert the ever-important CONTROL over anyone not in the hierarchy, you know the guys who wear dresses.
jg, you speak from anger and
jg, you speak from anger and not from rationality. How is "anonymous" racist?
So anonymous is a liar
So anonymous is a liar because he signs on with anonymous, but you are so correct because you give us full disclosure with your full name and identity, jg? Guess what jg, I can sign on with the same initials!! Everyone here is anonymous. As for the rest of your comments, they are not even worthy of a response.
This is bullshit! The
This is bullshit! The Congress - bipartisan Senate has a proposal which states that IF DESIRED, every 5 years someone may REQUEST to make their wishes for end-of-life care. This encompasses making living wills, stating if you want a feeding tube inserted, etc,
Don't make statements when you don't know what you're talking about.
It's interesting you bring
It's interesting you bring this up. I have just recently had a most interesting talk with a very conservative John Bircher type. He thinks if the Republicans get their way with Obama's push for health care, the only people who will benefit are under 55 and have good corporate insurance. The rest of us, as in the majority of us, will be left to our own devices.
It's the very first time this self admitted flaming liberal ever agreed with a Bircher and both of us are furious with our ever so duly elected Senator Max Baucus. We both laughed and laughed at the fact we both saw the same truth. At least on this issue.
I guess that means there is hope for unity, if not hope for uniformity.
I just like how Obama wants
I just like how Obama wants to rush this through with no discussion and yet it took him longer to pick out a puppy than he wants Congress to overhaul the nation's health care. In actuality, the puppy is a more important choice for Obama because Congress will make sure they are exempt from any national policy.
You betray your true self.
You betray your true self. It is a political agenda, the agenda of the status quo. Women and all others in their places....including, I'm sure the "upstart" president.
"Obama care" would surely
"Obama care" would surely take better care of them than any present institution!
Do you know what hyperbole
Do you know what hyperbole is? I was making an exaggeration to illustrate how radical the LCWR has become in advancing their vicious agenda. They will stop at almost anything. I don't believe they would euthanize anyone or at least I hope not.
What are you talking about
What are you talking about "they will stop at almost anything." They will stop at a red light? They will stop at a stop sign? They will stop thinking because a man who thinks he is more superior told them to? And why do you feel so threatened by the Sisters that you want to control them, as if they were not fully human and were your slaves or pets?
As regards hyperbole, your use of it is abusive because it tells a lie and goes beyond mere exaggeration to creating a truly false image of their character and it is food for the ignorant and gossipers to accept it as "truth."
What you are calling hyperbole is actually character assassination.
Butterfly, you are the angry
Butterfly, you are the angry queen of character assination. You have called people on this website Nazis, women haters etc. . Your nastiness is not characteristic of a butterfly. As far as hyperbole being food for the ignorant, perhaps that is you. I am praying for you little sis.
Milbo, there you go again,
Milbo, there you go again, you are going around and performing the character assassination against these Sisters and anyone who does not agree with you, as well instead of dealing with what is in front of you, are dodging the issue here. You have decided to judge them and me as well and you always twist everything around to suit yourself and your agenda.
Somehow you have metamorphosed me into a queen. Wow!! I'm moving up in the chain of name tags. Your resort to name-tags on me only shows how much of a immature bully you really are and demonstrates you really can't address the issues at hand. You are exposing yourself as not just nasty but utterly desperate.
The resemblance to certain political and religious fringe elements in the Church to Nazis is in their attitude against others, condemnation and desire to punish and blame or scapegoat others, rationalizing hatred for others, and a desire to Lord it over others authoritatively and absolutely, destroy and assassinate the character of all perceived enemies (which is the precursor to real assassination), as well their unhealthy narcissism and insistence that only they have the truth and if I use the term - should be seen in that context only. It is not like the name-calling that you resort to for merely the purpose of belittling someone and bullying them. If I have used the term or called anyone that it is a call for them to see these elements and begin to recognize the pattern that it resembles in spirit to their very own. Be watchful of your own words and acts, for they resemble not Christ's.
Butterfly, please think
Butterfly, please think before you write.
No, it's not the complexity
No, it's not the complexity that is beyond my understanding. It's the toxicity.
Milbo, how mean and petty of
Milbo, how mean and petty of you. Oooh, if they don't play my way, I'll take my ball and go home. Grow up. Where in what universe do you reside to believe the declining orders of Sisters have fund to entertain, not angels at all, but toadies of the Vatican trying to prove what? If they want to harrass anyone, they could start with every country's Bishop orgs. Let the clean house where the floor is dirty. When it comes to charity, love, outreach, care for the poor and sick, don't look to the Vatican, Sweetie, find it in your own backyard - you know, the nearest convent or community of Sisters. Mean petty people can't really call themselves Christian now, can they?
JG, liberal groups like Voice
JG, liberal groups like Voice of the Faithful call for people to withold financial support for those they disagree with. Are you willing to say that these liberal groups are petty and mean? Are they saying "if they don't play my way, I'll tke my ball and go home?" Be consistent and less mean-spirited.
We're not worried because we
We're not worried because we have nothing to hide. The concern has to do with lack of funds. Most of our communities are struggling, like everyone else. We get no monies from the Church. The only income our communities have come from the salaries of the sisters who still are working, and very generous donations. If we were to visit the Vatican, would they pay to put us up? I doubt it.
Sr. Christine, Why not
Sr. Christine, Why not request your Lay Community donate sufficient funds to support the visit. You have many rich families supporting your community and many have more than enough in their savings and investments to last three or four long lifetimes. Greed has taken over throughout much of our country and your locale is no different than any other part of the United States!
Tom Warren of Aug. 07, Unless
Tom Warren of Aug. 07,
Unless you are a Republican senator, living off of the fat of the land, and having the best medical care and retirement package that America can offer---you don't know a cow pie from a can of brown shoe polish!
Sr. Christine, is speaking from her actual experience---of which you have none. Rich Lay Community? Do you mean Lay Associates? Many of these folks are on fixed incomes and are barely making it themselves from their Social Security Checks that they receive at the beginning of each month.
Perhaps, as a visit to a greedy part of the United States---you should visit Detroit. Go around there and see how many people are unemployed---looking for work anywhere.
If you are going to write---at least write about what you KNOW to be true---not what you THINK is true.
Dear Milbo, I'm a woman
Dear Milbo,
I'm a woman religious and I quite agree that we could be entertaining angels from God. Why are we filled with anxiety? If the Holy Spirit inspired Vatican II, can the Holy Spirit not also inspire this visitation?
Maybe we will be given some excellent counsel and some wisdom from Rome. If the Apostolic Visitation results in giving us women religious sound advice as to how we can become holier and more fruitful sisters, I am all for it!
Best Wishes
from a Hopeful Nun
A Hopeful Nun, I certainly
A Hopeful Nun, I certainly apologize if any of my comments offended you. You seem to be reasonable. Any advice for all of us as to how to be holier and more fruitful is needed; even Rome and the Apostolic Visitation itself needs these things. I pray that this is not a witch-hunt as others have suggested, but a fruitful dialogue. Hopefully both groups will learn from each other. And hopefully the Church will be enriched in Her mission. Please keep me in your prayers. Best wishes to you from a child of God in need of His love and mercy.
Dear Milbo, Anyone who signs
Dear Milbo,
Anyone who signs off with: "A Child of God in Need of His Love and Mercy" has already received both, in my opinion. Thank you for your reply. You are very kind and intelligent and have the courage of your own convictions and you will speak the truth, no matter what the cost. As such, I suspect that you honor Christ above all else.
Yes, we all will learn a great deal from this Apostolic Investigation, if we are open to God's graces. I keep imagining Jesus walking on the storm at sea with His disciples in the boat, so afraid and calling out in terror, until Jesus said: "It is I. Do not be afraid." Jesus is in the midst of the storm and we need not be afraid, in spite of the waves that are splashing us!
I will pray a "Hail Holy, Queen" for your intentions every day, beginning now, when I hit the send button.
In Jesus and Mary,
A Hopeful Nun
Dear Hopeful Nun, what kind
Dear Hopeful Nun, what kind words. You are a model for all of us. Yes, Christ is with His Church. We, earthen vessels, must reach out for him. I had a thought that all of us, myself included, do not see the real dangers ahead. We have allowed ourselves to be divided and are not addressing the true dangers--the ever spreading culture of death which seems to gain momentum each day. Please pray for us dear Sister and for our country. I am sure your prayers will have efficacy with God and thank you for your prayers for me. Milbo
"Uninvited guests"? I wonder
"Uninvited guests"? I wonder if Jesus thinks the same of us each time we show up to his house for mass?
Agreed. Each year a nun from
Agreed. Each year a nun from a local convent makes an appeal for funds for religious orders. These women truly live the poverty of Christ. Surely the Vatican can scrape up enough money to fund this effort. If the congregations studied pay the way for their evaluators, how can they truly say it was done objectively?
I would say all the sisters'
I would say all the sisters' works of charity are totally based on "sound" doctrine...can we say the same about the bishops? What works of charity are the bishops engaged in??
The study is appropriate --
The study is appropriate -- and overdue.
I would like to ask on what
I would like to ask on what authority you make your comment. You sound like you are on the outside looking in. Have you ever been a member of a religious comunity? Or as presbyter are you a diocesan priest who can have what you want and be financially taken care of including food and cleaning bills by your parish. It is amazing what you are "entitled" to at the parish expense
I am curious about why you
I am curious about why you say that. What do you know that I don't know? And do you have any solid evidence that there is a problem?
Something stinks about an
Something stinks about an "investigation" ordered by men who wear long dresses of women who wear slacks. The American Catholic Sisters have been the backbone of the church in America. Today they are in the forefront of immplimenting social justice to the poor and homeless and uneducated in America.
Remember that Charity without
Remember that Charity without Truth is simply foolish sentiment. If there are Sisters out there implementing social justice programs (which is admirable) but not keeping the teachings of Christ and our Holy Mother Church while they do so, they do no more good than any other secular humanitarian effort.
If I understand my faith
If I understand my faith correctly, charity ultimately IS truth.
I'm saying this with all
I'm saying this with all sincerity: either you don't understand your faith correctly or you are not of the Catholic faith.
The good news is that our Holy Father just released his first social encyclical "Caritas in Veritate" (Latin: Charity in Truth), which explores the role that Catholics should play in working for the good of society, while also drawing on moral truths and the teachings of the Gospel. It is a good read for those who interested in addressing social issues in an authenticly Catholic way.
I sincerely hope that this
I sincerely hope that this study turns out to be what it is claiming to be--a true measure of the lives and challenges of women religious in the Catholic church. Perhaps I am a bit paranoid as my first reaction was to think, "witch hunt!"
Dear Rev. Sandra D. Costa,
Dear Rev. Sandra D. Costa, Unfortunately the name you use says it all. To the best of my knowledge there are not women Reverends in the Catholic Church. Perhaps this is why the visitors from Rome are investigating!!
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