The Independent News Source
NCR on Kindle - NCR classifieds - YouTube - Twitter - Facebook - Email Alerts - RSS
PDF versionUnder fire, women religious leaders gather in New Orleans
Express determination not to let Vatican actions interfere with ongoing ministries
Aug. 12, 2009
Incoming LCWR president, Franciscan Sister of Perpetual Adoration Marlene Weisenbeck
New Orleans
Facing two Vatican investigations, some 800 women religious leaders from throughout the country have gathered here to discuss their congregations’ uncertain futures.
Many women, in informal conversations, spoke of their determination not to let these Vatican actions get in the way of their ministries and religious life, hammered out over decades, both through experience and through exchanges with Rome on congregational constitutions.
As if to underscore their concern for their ongoing apostolic missions, the women, at the outset of the three-day assembly of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, the umbrella organization for 95 percent of the women religious of America, toured several sites in this struggling city where women religious were working in a variety of social ministries.
The women filled six buses and spent a half day viewing their sister congregations’ works, offering personal encouragement.
“There are simply too many things going on in religious life to get derailed,” said past president of the leadership conference, Sister of Saint Francis Nancy Schreck, shortly before the buses left a downtown hotel.
At the 2006 leadership conference assembly members called for an effort to assist the women religious of New Orleans who were then responding to the previous year’s hurricane. As part of that response, the conference established the New Orleans Recovery Project.
Working with the Washington-based fund raising group, Foundations and Donors Interested in Catholic Activities, FADICA, the women religious, under the direction of Sister of Notre Dame Suzanne Hall, raised more than $7 million. The money is being used to fund schools, senior citizen centers, nursing homes, early childhood learning centers and a variety of other other social programs.
Nevertheless, despite the stated focus on ministry, it was also clear that the Vatican investigations are very much on the minds of the women here. Some said they are bewildered as to why they would be the focus of ecclesial concern now, especially when many clergy have come under fire for clergy sex abuse.
Some expressed resentment. “This is the year of the priest and they are investigating women religious,” one woman said sharply.
Some expressed sadness and disappointment. Still others said that a self-evaluation, albeit forced, can be a good and useful thing.
The first Vatican investigation was announced last December by Cardinal Franc Rodé, who heads the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. This study is aimed at U.S. women religious congregations.
NCR: February 3-16, 2012
Subscribe to NCR to get all the news and special features that aren't always available online. In this issue:
- US News: Bishops Host Conference on Immigration
Conference fields advocates' questions on law, policy
- Special Section: Deacons. Serving as parish administrator; roles of wives; and more
- Study: Black Catholics are more engaged
New study by Notre Dame researcher about parish involvement in America
The second Vatican investigation was announced in February by Cardinal William Joseph Levada, prefect of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Its stated purpose is to obtain a “doctrinal assessment” of the women’s leadership conference itself.
NCR interviewed more than two dozen women religious. Reactions to the investigations varied in tone and content. Most women expressed confidence that they would handle these matters thoughtfully. They also agreed the time together here will be most useful as it will provide opportunities to listen to each other and better discern the road ahead.
“We are being called to deeper reflection,” said incoming conference president, Franciscan Sister of Perpetual Adoration Marlene Weisenbeck. “It is important to stand on our own integrity as we go ahead.”
A number of women said their knowledge of the nature, scope and the reasons behind the Vatican actions is still sketchy.
Levada informed leadership conference executives in his February letter that his congregation’s doctrinal concerns date back to a 2001 meeting with the women leaders. He wrote them that his congregation had asked the women to report on initiatives “taken or planned” to promote three areas of doctrinal concern - ordination, the primacy of the Catholic church and homosexuality. He said that since then the women had failed to adequately respond.
The letter has confused some of the religious leaders here. Several women in executive leadership positions told NCR that the leadership conference executive team has visited the Vatican each year since 2001 and no one there had raised those three specific concerns.
Sister of Saint Joseph Mary Dacey, past president of the leadership conference, on the leadership team from 2005 through 2008, said: “We went every year for dialogue and to express matters of concern. We were there every year. They didn’t raise those issues in any way, shape or form.”
Several women said the leadership conference prizes dialogue and has tried to make itself available for communication. As an example, they said they travel to Rome on their own initiative each year to be available to meet with Vatican officials. It is the only women’s religious organization worldwide, they said, that takes this step.
One woman said that cultural differences seem to be at play here. She said the Vatican prizes clear top down authority structures while the women prefer collective leadership. She said that fluidity of the women’s conference’s executive team, comprised of pre-, current and post-presidents with each president serving a one year term, might have added to the confusion.
Another past conference president, Sister of Mercy Camille D’Arienzo, emphasizing she was speaking for herself, talked of her pain and disappointment.
“They [the Vatican] should be awarding medals to these women, not investigating them. What’s going on is very painful and disrespectful because women religious have been so loyal to the church. I feel sorry for all the women who are now placed under suspicion. I know my sisters and they deserve better.”
Becoming philosophical, she added, “I came to religious life not to please an institution. I came to follow Jesus. Christ suffered. This pain gives us a particular connection.”
Sister of Notre Dame de Namur Mary Daniel Turner, long respected for her scholarship and thoughtful perspectives on religious life, said tensions between the Vatican and the women religious of America date back at least to the 1950s “when we [the congregations] began to see we shared a common vision. “At the heart it is hard for Rome to understand us as moral agents in our own right.”
She added that the issues behind the Vatican investigations “are wider than women religious. The issues are those of the whole church. I hate to see this reduced to just religious life. It is deeper than that. It is a difference between the church of Rome and the U.S. church. I think we, the women religious, are asking what the laity is also asking. ‘Who are we as Catholics in a pluralistic society?' "
Another past conference president, Sister of Mercy Doris Gottemoeller, speaking to the process of the investigation of the women’s congregations, called for transparency.
As outlined to the women by the Vatican, the final result of the investigation of the congregations will be put together by the Vatican appointed Apostolic Visitator, Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus Sister Mother Mary Clare Millea.
Her report will be secret and will not be shared with the U.S. women religious. The reports made by visitation teams to various congregations, a phase of the investigation, are also to be secret and not shared with the individual congregations.
This particularly disturbs the women. Virtually all those who spoke with NCR called for transparency. Some said it would be a minimal requirement for active participation.
“We are used to evaluations. We have no problem with evaluations,” said Blessed Virgin Mary Sister Helen Garvey. “But we need a sense of fair play. There needs to be transparency.”
At the same time, women who have spoken with Millea and have been interviewed by her, to the last person, have given her high marks for hospitality and cordial nature. “She seems to have been an inspired choice,” said Gottemoeller.
Gottemoeller said that the investigation can also be a positive thing. “The church has a right for accountability. If we assume the attitude we have not made any mistakes in the process of renewal we would be laughed out of the church.”
Then, reflecting the uncertainty of the moment, she concluded: “Something will emerge that we cannot predict.”
Tom Fox is NCR editor. His e-mail address is tfox@ncronline.org.
I pray for the 'integrity' of
I pray for the 'integrity' of this 'investigation'. As a Benedictine Oblate, I stand in solidarity with my Sisters in Christ!
way to go, emma! i, too, am
way to go, emma!
i, too, am an oblate of the Erie Benedictines. it is all i can do to remain in the roman catholic church. why should i? i recently spoke with a priest and remarked that my father always said it is what we put into liturgy/church rather than what we "get" from it that is important. he spoke as a man. what i have to offer the church are gifts from a woman, and those gifts are not welcome. sex organs matter in the church, not who a person is. decades ago i felt called to the priesthood. my gender kept me from pursuing it. the "church" would say that it must be "god's will" that i not be a priest because i am female. but, i could not become a priest because of "men's" will.
i no longer have the desire to be a priest. i have put in my time, volunteered, been intellectually involved, am a benedictine oblate, worked for decades in public service, and cared for elderly parents. i have ministered. i have broken bread with many. i have been "a priest".
i have wondered recently why it is that vocations of religious life and vocations of singlehood are not sacramental. the "church" calls us to sacramental life. yet it exemplifies exclusion toward females. i can worship at liturgy -- officiated by a man. i can receive reconciliation to god -- officiated by a man. if i married, it would be officiated by a man. should i wish last rites when i die, again, they would be officiated by a man. i love men. but for men to be the only "official" ministers in the church keeps the church very, very unbalanced.
so, yes, i find the vatican's "investigations" into communities of women to be absurd. the investigations are merely another form of abuse directed at women. can anyone tell me why i should remain in the church? even its language excludes me.
Be coherent: leave the
Be coherent: leave the Church, then!
I see. Instead of fighting
I see. Instead of fighting against Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini the people who did should have just left these countries. That's a very interesting definition of coherence; a kind of totalitarian logic which says "in all things the hierarchy knows best; the logic of the enablers of abusers; the logic of 'don't rock the boat.'
They leave the Church.
They leave the Church. Coherence has nothing to do with it. Logic has nothing to do with it. Intellectual honesty has nothing to do with it. They will not leave the Church because if they do, no one will care about their writing or their words anymore. Their audience is in the Church, albeit an ever-shrinking audience.
For the rest, they will not leave either. Many of these folks just need to oppose something or someone. Many of them are aging hippies who cannot be happy unless they are rebelling. They have chosen the Church as the source of their opposition and rebellion.
In many ways, it is sad. But also, remember that Christ told the parable of the wheat and the weeds. Do not uproot the weeds lest in doing, some of the wheat is uprooted too. Further, we cannot judge who are weeds and who are wheat. Finally, some who are weeds may, with time, prayer, formation and conversion, become wheat.
Clint, you always state
Clint, you always state things truthfully and accurately. Keep up the good work and do not get discouraged by the illogical and mean-spiritedness you sometimes encounter here.
Mil, as you always ask
Mil, as you always ask Yvon:
Why are you always so mean-spirited?
Clint in his radical capitalism should find coherence and lessened cognitive dissonance by going to Temple at BankAmerica and not in the Holy Roman Catholic Church which specifically opposes his economic plan.
I don't know that there is
I don't know that there is any cognitive dissonance in Clint's writings. He truly believes he can worship at both the Temple and the Church. After all, the Vatican itself has a very interesting bank.
In the night upon the evening
In the night upon the evening of which Pope John Paul the Greater drafted plans for completely reforming the Vatican Bank including canning the entire board of directors, he died, mysteriously, one month into his promising Papacy.
Whom now do we serve?
Head for the desert, dudes . . .
That is the question. Who
That is the question. Who really is being served? Why do I have a gut level knowing that the entire mission of the Church is being bought and paid for by a small number of very wealthy international people whose interests do not lie along the path of Christ.
Quite the coincidence that JPI dies the night he finalized the over haul of the Vatican bank. I think I read somewhere that one of JPII's first moves was to place the Vatican Bank under his direct control. His second was to use those funds to build himself his famous swimming pool.
I love this: "But also,
I love this:
"But also, remember that Christ told the parable of the wheat and the weeds. Do not uproot the weeds lest in doing, some of the wheat is uprooted too. Further, we cannot judge who are weeds and who are wheat. Finally, some who are weeds may, with time, prayer, formation and conversion, become wheat."
And I love the Milbo response. I'll assume, in all Christian charity, that you both realize that you actually are NOT the One who can judge the wheat and the weeds, and, in fact, may just be judged by the One-Who-Can as the weeds that may or may not become the wheat.
You sound just, like, real angry with that older generation. and they say there is nothing new under that sun...
Mr. Clint, and remember you
Mr. Clint, and remember you are under Oath; are you now or have you ever been a member of the Republican Party?
Find coherence. Resolve your severe cognitive dissonance. Recognize your god is mammon, not CARITAS.
Or become wheat and service the poor, the hungry, the alien in our midst.
1. Recall King Solomon's test
1. Recall King Solomon's test and what it means.
2. Notice that a frequent response of "traditional" Catholics to those with different ways of perceiving their religion is "leave the Church."
3. Notice that this response never (or almost never) comes from "progressive" Catholics.
4. Now ask, who seems to love their church?
I do not "seem" to. I do.
I do not "seem" to.
I do.
You should stay in The
You should stay in The Church, but for all your heretical views, you probably shouldn't identify as an oblate. True workers do not scatter (nor complain so much!).
Specify please those views
Specify please those views you here anonymously discover heretical in my sister Oblate, and in what way.
You conclude: "True workers do not scatter (nor complain so much!)."
According to the latest social encyclical from His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI in expressed continuity with over one hundred years of Roman Catholic Dogma, Our Holy Father directly decalres that not only do true workers complain, but also organize in order that their complaints might be effective.
Do you also condemn Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI as "heretical" by your lights?
"can anyone tell me why i
"can anyone tell me why i should remain in the church?"
Because the Catholic Church teaches the Truth. To whom else could we go? she has been entrusted with the words of eternal life.
"even its language excludes me."
The highest creature venerated by the church is a woman, who's main "accomplishment" was having a child (something women do every day). The Church has been entrusted, she cannot change the nature of a sacrament anymore than she can allow men to have children, it's just not possible. Part of the sacrament of the Eucharist is when the minister stands "in persona Christe". Since Christ was a man, the maleness of the minister is set.
The very nature of the man is to "give his body" and of the women to "receive that body."
The Church is beautiful and her teachings are Truth. I pray your suffering is eased and you'll know the beauty and peace of these Truths.
Before I respond to the
Before I respond to the original post, I think we need to clear up a few things here. First, the Church has changed the number and kinds of sacraments. It wasn't until the Council of Trent that the current 7 sacraments were officially set down. Before then (read: for over 1300 years), different geographic areas had different numbers of sacraments. In fact, most peoples' favorite theology of the eucharist ("the holy sacrifice of the Mass") was "new" at the Council of Trent as well. Prior to that council, eucharistic theology centered on community.
Second, why is Christ's male-ness the most important part of his humanity? I am a man and I would hate to think that particular part of me is what defines me as human. Love, compassion, respect, and willingness to give of self are what we define as human traits. To stand in the place of Christ is to stand in love. You don't need any specific genitalia to love people.
Now to the original post: I cannot even fathom your pain and I'm sorry we treat women so badly in the church. I pray that we can come back to the heart of Jesus' message of equality and love soon. I also pray that those, like yourself, who have been neglected and hurt may lead us to a deeper understanding of redemptive suffering.
this is why to stay in the
this is why to stay in the Church
a compassionate love which seeks forgiveness
and family
not for the doctrine of the day
Deus caritas est
Well said Bobbo. That is why
Well said Bobbo. That is why she should stay in church. People like you who understand the message of Christ. That is what keeps me in the church; hearing people like you spread the message.
Dear Christina: I am a firm
Dear Christina: I am a firm believer that each time one mouths the rationale for exclusion, which worked when I was a kid, another layer of credibility is skinned off the underlying misogyny.
Like: "Since Christ was a man, the maleness of the minister is set." How Christina is his "maleness" set?
or: "The very nature of the man is to "give his body" and of the women to to "receive that body". So I am a woman when I recieve communion? I don't want to be a woman, any more than a women who discerns a call to priesthood wants to be a man.
It is becoming more and more clear that the church in proclaiming its rationale for exclusion is just as ineffective as when it refuses to do so.
Christina - My word. You are
Christina - My word. You are so, so infected by the virus that has been caused by popes who centuries ago belittled women out of fear or sex and of their own misguidance of intimacy, along with, in all probabilities, their homosexual tendencies. You appear to be a slave, and I hope you work through that.
I am with you 100%. I find
I am with you 100%. I find it more and more difficult to remain a Roman Catholic. I am a male married to a former Franciscan and we were so hopeful when JP II was chosen as Pope, but unfortunately, he was swayed by or chose to move "the church" backwards and/or to the right, and now it is even worse. The heirarchy is running scared and using fear, not love, as their "gospel"! They love all the rules and regulations and Canon Laws, which is just the opposite of what Christ wanted. That's what the Pharisees and Priests of His time were all about and he challenged all of that. The only reason I can encourage you to stay in the "church" is because you are who you are. And we, the real church (not the heirarchy) need as many of us as possible to challenge our current "leaders." - May God bless you with strength, grace, courage and love. You have been and are Christ to your fellow human beings. - Oh yes, I must say in addition, it is the women religious of this country who truly evangelized this country. It has been the women religious who started, staffed and ran the schools and hospitals across this country of ours. Oh, sure, the local bishops and priest wanted some credit for it, but it was without a doubt the women religious who are responsible for most of the the elementary through high school education, and some colleges/universities. Many of the hospitals are now "owned" by or run by non-church businesses, but they were certainly started by and run by women.
And what kind of recognition have you received from Rome? Let's see, Oh, yes we need to investigate you to make sure you're living your life the way "we" want it, but never mind the many priests who have transgressed their vows of celibacy and bishops who have turned their eyes away and just passed them on from parish to parish, or diocese to diocese.
Well, I could go on and on. Thank you for who you are and have been.
†J.M.J. I'm sorry, but I
†J.M.J.
I'm sorry, but I rather disagree with some of the points in this comment.
I don't think that the Servant of God Pope John Paul II moved the Church backwards or to the right. I think what he did was merely to continue what the Church has always taught and done, and I think he succeeded by the grace of God, because I still see the Four Marks of the Church: we are still One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.
I read somewhere that Christ didn't condemn the Law. Didn't He say that the Sabbath is made for man, and not man for the Sabbath? I think what He meant was that the Law is good, but we should not allow it to turn us into unfeeling automatons. We should rather explore what the Law is all about: it's about love. The spirit of the Law is the love of God for man.
We, the laity alone, are not the Church. We also need the hierarchy, the Pope, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles and the Bishops, the successors of the Apostles, to whom God gave the responsibility to look after. Sure, sometimes we need to speak out and to challenge, but we also need to learn to bow down when we must, and when our Church leaders speak to us in their authority, we must follow them and not question them. It's for our own good.
As for that part about the Sisters "truly evangelizing" the country, that ignores the work of the missionaries in the New World. What about the people like Father Eusebio Kino, who preached the Gospel in northwestern Mexico and the southwestern United States? What about St. Isaac Jogues and his companions and those martyrs whose blood strengthened the foundations of the Faith in America and throughout the New World?
Laudetur Iesus Christus!
Stay in the church we all
Stay in the church we all love, but fight like hell for justice and equality.
Dear Mary, Please
Dear Mary,
Please ignore the uncharitable comments directed to you by two others. That was uncalled-for on their part, nor does it help your questioning, frustration and perplexity.
I am also a life-long practicing Catholic and an Oblate of Saint Benedict (St. Meinrad affiliation). There is nothing wrong with pondering, questioning or even having doubts. I've long believed that our Lord allows this as a means of protecting us from the sin of spiritual pride. Those with an intolerance for ambiguity and questioning in the interior spiritual life, betray their own doubt by their obsession with certainty.
The reason we remain in the Church — in spite of hireling shepherds, flawed human beings (we all are), divisions, injustice — is because this is where our Lord in His Providence has placed us. He was not caught off guard, nor was He unaware that there would be trials within His Church. He has provided us with the grace we need to persevere... especially in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar — His true, actual, substantial, literal Presence in Holy Eucharist. For that reason (even if there were no other) there is no where else to go... just as the disciples said.
As an Oblate you are well aware of Benedict's teaching about 'stability of heart' even in the face of severe trial and human doubt. That is part of our Oblation Promise. Our Lord remains in the boat, even when the wind and waves threaten to swamp us — all we need do is stay in the boat with Him, and trust Him to calm the tempest.
All things are fleeting... this storm too, will pass.
Peace be with you.
Ahh Saint Meinrad's! how
Ahh
Saint Meinrad's!
how wonderful for you, Sr. Oblate Aileen
and a great grace (could be worse)
and please pray for me very much, your lost desert brother
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
Stay, because we need you.
Stay, because we need you. My vocation is to the married life, another vocation the Vatican does not hold as highly as that of the Priesthood, and we need you, a woman of faith, to stay in the church and work for equality from within.
Sorry, but I read the entire
Sorry, but I read the entire article and still have no idea what the problem is, what the alleged charges are, or why some religious orders are being investigated. This was like reading Kafka.... At the very least, it shows a disconnect between a church claiming to not know about bishop's actual public statements denying the holocaust while at the same time launching investigations on alleged internal transgressions regarding whatever it was some of these religious orders were alleged to have said/done/believed that nobody else has heard about... strange communications channels within our church...
Here's a partial answer. The
Here's a partial answer. The right is never investigated by this current Vatican unless it's absolutely publically scandalous not to do so. Marcial Maciel and the Legion of Christ come to mind. The allegations against Maciel are documented, personally testified to, and in the public record. They have been for decades--except for the daugher thing, and the underage mother who had the daughter. That's sort of new, but much more difficult to deny, DNA and all that.
The investigation of the LCWR is all about allegations from unidentified American laity and unidentified bishops. Now we're told the results will be secret and unavailable to the LCWR and their congregations.
How cool is that? Cheney has to be way jealous.
Which passage from Franz
Which passage from Franz Kafka do you discover isomorphic?
Women Rerligious will
Women Rerligious will continue to be a force. As a non-Catholic, I recognize their effort and trevail. But, as was stated during the 160s in describing the student and civil rights movement, you can not jail a revolution, or derail Women religious. Make Vatican Council III happen today.
I don't understand the
I don't understand the concern. If everything the various congregations of nuns are doing is so good, what can happen that would disrupt it? Or, might there be some things that the Vatican might think need correcting? Or, do they think their own judgment is supreme?
Dear Pedro, If the results of
Dear Pedro,
If the results of the investigation are kept secret---how can anything be corrected (if anything needs correcting). The Sisters will not know. How
fair is that?
LittleBear, this is a
LittleBear, this is a visitation not an investigation. I am baffled here. I think the visitation is necessary and I am hopeful, but I do agree that the results should certainly be made public. It makes little sense to keep the results private.
Pedro: If you are so
Pedro:
If you are so convinced that the visitation will be conducted in an honorable and Christian manner, then why this?
"Her report will be secret and will not be shared with the U.S. women religious. The reports made by visitation teams to various congregations, a phase of the investigation, are also to be secret and not shared with the individual congregations."
You need to stop believing in many other myths, as well.
"Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." John F. Kennedy
pedro, this question might
pedro, this question might also be asked: why are the men's religious communities not being investigated? hmmmmm? why, perhaps because they are MEN. within the church, men are 1st class and women are 2nd class.
"why are the men's religious
"why are the men's religious communities not being investigated?"
Or it could be that women religious are seen as such and essential part that it necessitates making sure they are doing well first. Like St Dominic, who founded the nuns before the friars, the church may be recognizing the prayer backbone that women make up.
However, since the seminaries were investigated a few years ago, I suppose this puts women religious in the middle (after seminaries and before men religious).
Mary, i think the issue is
Mary, i think the issue is not about being men or women. After the sex abuse scandal rocked the US Church, the vatican investigated homosexuality in the seminaries. the seminarians are certainly males. the investigation centered on them because at that time, they were the ones who were in need of help.
now, the vatican senses that there might be something wrong with the women religious; they should be helped as well. I dont actually see this vatican action as an attack but an act of charity. the vatican is just concerned with the excesses, if there is, among religious women. IT is unfair therefore that they are being investigated because they are women.
Nobody is 1st class or 2nd class in the church. Everybody is in equal footing; we just vary with the ministries we perform. and we have to be contented and happy with the ministry given to us by God. I am a man and i wanted to be priest. unfortunately, i already have a family and i can no longer be admitted to the ministerial priesthood. I am a Liturgical coordinator, i know the liturgy, i want to say Mass; but, i just could not. Should i complain against the church for this discrimination? should i say i am a 2nd class in the Church? of course not! Church laws are clear on this - i cannot say Mass. i have to accept what the Lord has given me as my ministry in the Church.
On the issue of ordination, I think we, men who have been serving the Church and oftern much better and knowlegeable of Church matters than priests, are in better position to cry foul for being discrimiated to the ministerial priesthood than the women. We are men, we have the fundamental requirement for becoming priests. but, we just could not be priests for whatever reasons. Yet, we do not complain. We simply obey and serve. Truly, our or my obedience and service do not make me a 2nd class citizen in the Church.
God bless.
It's your love for your wife
It's your love for your wife and the sexuality necessary for children that makes you ineligible for the priesthood. Those were your choices.
Your wife, on the other hand, had no choice and that makes her a second class citizen.
Forestking writes: "On the
Forestking writes: "On the issue of ordination, I think we, men who have been serving the Church and oftern much better and knowlegeable of Church matters than priests, are in better position to cry foul for being discrimiated to the ministerial priesthood than the women. We are men, we have the fundamental requirement for becoming priests." And what sir is that "fundamental requirement"? Need we say more?
You seem also to equate those who dissent and those who do not obey. There is a difference.
*We simply obey and
*We simply obey and serve"..........You see, that is exactly where the problem lies....Look at history, that is what Hitler's henchmen said!!! Truly your obedience and service makes you a puppet on a string, and a mouth piece for Vatican henchmen. The Sex Abuse Scandals that rocked the church happened because the boys club would rather scrape the bottom of the barrel for scum that obey and serve, then risk losing any of their power. So don't even try to compare the sociopathic sex offending child molesters to those with a different gender orientation. Any first year psychiatry student knows it's not true and to do so is a scapegoating lie. A lie needed to save the Vatican's dirty shameful part in all of it.
These investigations are just a smoke screen and as long as we just obey and serve they will keep abusing all of us.. children,good religious men, religious sisters, any one who dares to say THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES ON. Why aren't we marching in the streets, or at least boycotting the church and stopping their $$$ flow with out donations.
All the sisters I know are wonderful dedicated women, how dare the Vatican, Your obedience does not make you a 2ed class citizen, It makes you a spineless citizen!
Amen, amen. Again I say,
Amen, amen. Again I say, AMEN.
Pedro, Absolute power
Pedro,
Absolute power corrupts absolutely! The male hierarchy of the church have absolute power. They can and will do whatever they want to preserve "their" institution, as history has shown time and again. This whole process is frightening, not only for women religious, but for all of us who call ourselves Catholic. This is an enlightened time. Are we going to let them take us back to the dark ages??????
Anon., my friend, they only
Anon., my friend, they only THINK they do.
I do not know now the English translation, but Jesus told the Apostles exhausted from ministry: "Venez-vous a l'ecart . . ." Come away to a desert place . . . A wonderful French Dominican priest preached on this passage to us trembling Benedicintes in an Abbay in France back in early 1975, and I still recall his words, at least these few.
Come away as far as you can into the desert in search of God and meet a rich Catholic community of very poor Mexicans, and you have found God, and the power of God's Love, the one true and absolute power, of God's loving mercy.
Put away that television and pray alone in silent prayer, and discover the absolute power of God, which has been ever within, and among, and present.
In view of the wide
In view of the wide divergence from the gospel permitted and even encouraged by the Vatican in recent years, ought not the shoe be on the other foot? Would it not be more appropriate for women relogious to examine the Curia about their observance of gospel directives as spelled out in the documents of Vatican II?
NICE thought, Jay!! I like
NICE thought, Jay!! I like that a lot!
I second the motion! There
I second the motion! There is much to be investigated in the Vatican.
Who knew what; and when! The response to sexual abuse seems to have been coordinated from the Vatican. Why else would the actions of the bishops have been uniform from country to country?
From the Vatican Bank to ....?
Some have objected to the Pope meeting with Obama. Should Obama have met with the Pope?
The oaths required whould have prevented us from knowing that this planet is not the center of the Universe.
I suspect that the Vatican is more interested in indoctrination than education and analysis.
Why are those in religious life fewer than twenty years not included?
Why the secrecy?
Perhaps reason for the 'visitation' is because the LCWR haven't jumped on the bandwagon to affirm certain doctrinal policies that the sisters are suspected of a subversive agenda. Does silence mean consent?
Convince, convert; but don't coerce!
John XXII opened the windows. It seems they've been locked shut again.
How silly for someone to do a
How silly for someone to do a major investigation of women's religious orders then not share their findings, just issue yet another "secret" report...this isn't even good communication policy let alone Christian charity!
How does one correct findings or refute them when no one will inform them of the findings??
I agree wholeheartedly! As a
I agree wholeheartedly! As a relative newcomer to religious life, I would like to know what the report will say to the Vatican.
Oh, there will be "findings"
Oh, there will be "findings" shared. They just will more than likely not be the "findings" reported by Mother Millea and her assistants. The findings are kept secret for only one reason: so that they can be altered without anyone noticing. I am still troubled by another blogger's insight that the bishops are interested in the nuns' properties.
You end with the word
You end with the word "findings"---a familiar word in the Bush administration ( and now sadly Obama)---secret
Presidential findings. The Vatican has taken a page from our administrations--or vice versa. I suspect the later.
I appreciate Sister Mary
I appreciate Sister Mary Daniel Turner's remarks above because they are so very much on point.
Specifically she mentions that it is "hard for Rome to understand us as moral agents in our own right," that the issues "are wider than women religious. The issues are those of the whole church," and that it is "a difference between the church of Rome and the U.S. church," with the same questions being asked by women religious as are being asked by the laity in general - "Who are we as Catholics in a pluralistic society?"
I truly believe it is a time for reflection, renewal and reform in the Roman Catholic Church. I believe this will begin with today's People of God, in a bottom-up rather than a top-down movement.
Transparency and accountability are elements that are in short supply in the present hierarchical structures and that has been reflected in the manner in which these two "Investigations" have been communicated to the leadership of religious congregations and to the LCWR itself.
The fact that Mother Mary Clare Millea's report "will be secret and will not be shared with the U.S. women religious," is deeply disturbing, as is the fact that reports made to the two official Vatican Congregations involved are also to be kept secret "and not shared with the individual congregations."
Keeping secrets has brought the institutional church to its present state and continuing in that vein would not appear to be conducive to meaningful communication if the Holy See really intends to promote a dialog with religious communities in the U.S.
I appreciate the reflections of the women above and my comments, of course, are my own. I speak only for myself.
My thoughts are with them in New Orleans and I pray that their meeting will be a fruitful one.
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
Sister, it is about time for
Sister, it is about time for the LCWR to stop keeping secrets about their cover-up of abuse. Do you truly stand for the victims or just for the LCWR?
Anonymous on Aug. 27, 2009.
Anonymous on Aug. 27, 2009.
I would suggest that you consult SNAP---and ask them how many complaints were
made by victims against women religious.
Compare those numbers to complaints/lawsuits made against priests and dioceses
and see the difference.
Credibility is the first
Credibility is the first fruit of integrity. In all my years of interaction with bishops and women religious, the women understand this concept completely and practice it with steadfastness. The Catholic church needs the charisms of your fearless leadership.
What a wonderful statement -
What a wonderful statement - "Credibility is the first fruit of integrity." Thank you,"anonymous."
And where, exactly, will we see either credibility or integrity in an investigation of the doctrinal purity of women religious the results of which are kept secret - EVEN FROM THE WOMEN BEING INVESTIGATED THEMSELVES? Do the old men in Rome plan to just judge the sisters "guilty" and start issuing orders (i.e. "sentences") without even making public the basis of their conclusions? Just how credible do they think this will make them look? And how much "integrity" will we be able to see in them when they come to conclusions that they won't even publicly acknowlege and stand behind. This secrecy makes me smell the biggest rat in the western world and causes me to lose an untold amount of trust in men who shoud, I think, be among the most trustworthy of human beings. What a disappointment.
Since this is the Year of the
Since this is the Year of the Priest, perhaps the People of God in the U.S., a priestly people (according to Vatican II), should commission the women religious in this country to do an assessment of all of the U.S. bishops and priests, especially anyone who had any connection whatsoever to the child abuse cases. We should ask them to investigate what the bishops and priests knew and when the knew it, then have them make recommendations to the People of God and the applicable prosecutors offices around the country for appropriate action.
Unlike the report of Sacred Heart of Jesus Sister Mother Mary Clare Millea, investigating the nuns, the report to the People of God should be made totally public. We should, of course, remove from office anyone who does not cooperate with the People of God.
BRAVO! Let's make this "The
BRAVO! Let's make this "The Year of Investigating the Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and Pope." The results will NOT be kept secret.
As a recently ordained
As a recently ordained priest, please know that I have been assessed over and over again by my many religious women formators. This may be shocking to some of you, but women religious hold many high positions in seminaries and houses of priestly formation. But that does not serve those seeking to perpetuate this theater of grievance. Your victimhood is in danger by the fact that women religious do have power and do command respect. Just because I do not find Llama farming particularly edifying nor worthy of the prayerful time of a religious does not mean that I seek to oppress women religious. The faith and prayer life of an adult religious-whether male or female-is to be one of seeking the salvation of all in contemplation and union with the Savior. I say it's time to grow up.
New Father Andrew writes: "I
New Father Andrew writes:
"I do not find Llama farming particularly edifying nor worthy of the prayerful time of a religious"
I did not realize this was a particular charism of women religious, but perhaps you discovered such in your formation.
I heard through repeated warnings in the Peruvian highlands that llamas eagerly kick and spit, particularly when hot or confused or alarmed. Above all, do not blow air in their face, I heard.
Although I discovered them in fact quite peaceful and tolerant upon Machu Picchu (I blew no air into their faces, of course), I believe their kicking and spitting may be considered rather edifying among certain ancient houses of spiritual formation. See in particular Saint Francis of Assisi on perfect joy, or the apothegmes of the early Desert Fathers (and Mothers). Shepherding a herd of such abusive llama might be seen by some as "worthy of the prayerful time of a religious" and more than adequate formation for any future parish ministry, or even blogging upon NCRonline.org
I congratulate you upon the realization of your priestly vocation and pray very much for you. Please pray for me, too.
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
Let me see if I understand
Let me see if I understand this. In the U.S., it is men who have fouled the nest with financial improprieties, the sexual abuse scandal and the subsequent cover up. Yet Rome is investigating religious communities of women in the U.S., who have been nothing but faithful servants of the Christian community. Makes sense to me.
Jim O'Connor
Richmond, VA
"Vigorous minds will not
"Vigorous minds will not suffer compulsion. To exercise compulsion is typical of tyrants; to suffer it, typical of asses." Erasmus
"Conviction without experience makes for harshness." flannery o'connor
"Nuns make moral choices. Churchmen often make moral speeches and pragmatic choices." Tim Unsworth
Jim, you are saying that
Jim, you are saying that women have never been responsible for sexual abuse, cover-up, or financial scandals??? I guess their victims just don't count to the NCR because they can't gain political points from it.
Anonymous on Aug. 27, 2009.
Anonymous on Aug. 27, 2009.
Since this was posted on the same day, I'll assume that you
are the same who posted earlier.
Dioceses are not responsible to 'bail out' religious communities
of women (or men for that matter). If a religious has been accused
by name---and a law suit is issued against her and her community, and
if she is found guilty---that religious community is obliged to pay
monies to the victim.
This would be a high profile trial---do you know of any such
trials occuring anywhere in America? So before you accuse the
LCWR of 'covering up', you had better get your facts straight.
Consult SNAP---they have names, years, etc.
KEEP UP YOUR GOOD WORK. You
KEEP UP YOUR GOOD WORK. You surely have performed miracles.
I shall hope and pray and do
I shall hope and pray and do whatever I can to support these sisters who act with justice, who love tenderly, and who walk humbly with God. I have every confidence that the leadership of women religious who are under investigation have integrity, courage, and truth within them. "Something will emerge that we cannot predict" and of course, that's how the Spirit usually works in times of crisis.
Isn't secrecy what got us
Isn't secrecy what got us into the whole priest sexual abuse fiasco.
LCWR has always been above board, collaborative, faithful as have the communities they lead - vowed women deserve better.
And what about the exemption for "monastic" communities?
There is no exemption for
There is no exemption for monastic communities, at least not the Benedictine women who engage in ministries outside of their monasteries. We are subject to the visitation as well.
The latest word is that each sister will be required to respond to a questionnaire, and in the communities that are actually visited, each sister will be interviewed.
On the one hand, I am confident that my community is faithful to the teachings of Jesus and the Rule of St. Benedict. We live & pray together in community, we serve all whom we meet as Christ. On the other hand, I fear that the visitation will bog down in minutiae that neither Jesus nor Benedict seemed to care for all that much.
For example, there is mention of using "approved liturgical texts" as an area of concern. Our liturgy of the hours which we published for our community's use, employs the ICEL translation of the psalms which was commissioned/ sanctioned by the US Bishops. At the time we adopted this psalter, it was approved for liturgical use. Then the bishops conference balked, threw the whole lectionary project into the "on hold" basket, and finally approved the ICEL psalms for private use only. Are we supposed to toss out our books and totally redo our liturgy of the hours? Are we going to be reprimanded or found suspect because of the translation of the psalms we pray? It's painful to consider such interference in our lives.
Throughout the history of women's religious communities there are terrible tales of the pain which has been wrought by the interference of bishops in matters which belonged solely to the communities and their leaders. Would such interference prevent me from being a faithful monastic and following Jesus in my life and ministry? No, but it would be painful, and it is unnecessary and unfounded. We will continue to be faithful to our call. May God guide those involved with this visitation to respect and honor the integrity and autonomy of the communities, treating them as the responsible, dedicated intitutions that they are.
What is the official status
What is the official status of the Vulgate of past centuries? Was it tossed for the new (clumsier) translation back into Latin? Am I okay when I still dig it out, from memory, from record or from text?
How about a nice Spanish edition (not of castellano from Spain, and certainly not the opus one, but from Latin America)? That would be fun, or at least I find it so!
Oh
That's right.
I'm a dude and don't get investigated . . .
Sorry . . .
Thanks for your very kind and accurate reflection here of the Life, which I find very strengthening. Good to know you all are there.
pray for me please
frère charles du désert OSB OBLAT (Congrégation de Subiaco)
Post new comment