Parish petition drive draws support for women religious

This petition will probably "mark" Father Joyce as a traitor by the boys in Rome. After all, how dare he ask the Vatican to celebrate American Women Religious when the boys in Rome want to cloak them in habits and veils and "put them in their places." Millions of Catholics think of the Pope and his Vatican bureaucrats as right wing nuts who are centuries out of step with the teachings of Jesus. Still, I applaud the good people of this Pleasant Hill parish and I commend the good Fr. Joyce for his courage.

I wonder if they also circulate a Pizza after Mass Poll.

Father Joyce states he supports and appreciates all U.S. Catholic women religious throughout the United States. Does he support and appreciate the work of Donna Quinn, a Sinsinawa Dominicans who works as an escort at an abortion clinic in Chicago? What about the National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN), which stands in opposition against the Catholic Church's position on abortion, homosexuality, contraception, and the male priesthood? Joyce states that he supports "the holy and heroic ministry of our sisters." While many women religious are holy and engage in heroic ministry; not all do so. To make a blanket statement that he supports all U.S. Catholic women religious throughout the United States indicates that he is either blind and oblivious to what many of these women are doing or he is a complete fool and ignoramus. What is it Father Joyce? I support some women religious, but certainly not all. Donna Quinn is a complete disgrace and an embarrasment to sisters in general and the Dominicans in particular.

If you people want to be really "green," don't waste the paper. No one will look at them anyway. Besides, because some people in one parish happen to thing religious women in general are good (so does the Church, by the way) does not mean there are not examples like the Dominican in Illinois who works for an abortion clinic and the superiors who say that there is nothing wrong with it.

I totally agree with this

I don't like this at all. And I don't like the way NCR has been reporting on this issue. NCR and Fr. Joyce are setting this up as an "us against them" mentality, pitting parishioners against Rome and the Holy Father, and preying on the sensibilities of gullible parishioners. Rome has a very good reason for investigating women religious in this country. People who can't see or understand this probably never will.

It should be noted that when the book, 300 Excellent Catholic Parishes [out of 18,500] was published about a decade ago, Fr Brian Joyce's Parish at the time St Monica was listed..

What a great idea! I hope that many more parishes across the land will put out petitions after masses and send them along to Rome. Of course, Rome isn't interested, but this gives people a chance to witness anyway.

I lived in the Oakland diocese only 16 months and was not a registered parishioner at Christ the King (I generally worshiped at nearby St. Catherine of Siena Church in Martinez). On those occasions when I did worship in Pleasant Hill, I found Brian Joyce to be a strong proponent of ecclesial renewal called for by the world's bishops at Vatican II. I'm not surprised by his decision to enlist support for our U.S. sisters.

Hey, fellow pastors out there in Catholic Land: Do what this pastor did and show support for our women religious who have served the American church so well since our country's beginnings!

Speaking only for myself, I think these Vatican moves are pure, unadulterated crap!!!

And to Mother Superior leading the so-called "visitation": Please reevaluate your participation in this sham. Don't let the boys in the Vatican continue using you as a pawn!

Bravo, Fr. Joyce! Would that all pastors follow your lead. Your statement was beautifully crafted and says what so many of us feel so deeply.

Not only do women religious have to face this unwarranted "inquisition," we in the pew will probably be asked to pay for it--no joke! The Vatican has asked US Bishops for over one million dollars to fund this nonsense.

If there is no petition in one's own parish, there is always the website Thankyousister.com. I urge all NCR readers to visit the website and write to our women religious as they anticipate what awaits them. I would think gratitude would move us all to do so.

Wonderful action Father Joyce to let people in the pews know about what is happening to the Nuns in the USA. I hope that more parishes have priest who are willing to take action when they see something that is not needed. The inquisitors also want the Nuns to pay for this investigation to the tune of over One Million Dollars. God bless you Father Joyce for allowing the people in your parish the opportunity to support the Nuns. Your courage is to to be admired and I hope that the conservatives do not take revenge for you actions. Jesus never said that he wanted a Church of only leaders. We the people are the body of our Catholic Church as well as the Deacons, Priest, Bishops, Cardinals, the Pope, and yes the Nuns.

Ok. One parish out of how many Cathoilic parishes in the U.S.

Beautiful... I think my parish would be supportive of a petition like this, but I'm certain the Bishop and our pastor would VETO it. It's not even a topic open for discussion at this point. Bravo, Christ The King parish!

This would all be based on some kind of idea that the Church really cares anything about what the people think.

I'd sign a petition which said that the nuns should get back into their habits!

Why is NCR ignoring/not printing anything about the story of the Sinsinawa sister who escorts women into an abortion clinic and has not been disciplined by her superiors? It is for reasons like that that the Holy See is justified in investigating whether women religious actually believe in the Catholic faith.

Yes, there are a few Nuns who are too far-out and need to be reviewed.. But why such a sweeping search?

It is depressing to see that the rulers of my Church are now trying to
deflect attention from their refusal to tackle the problems in their own
male bailiwick by attacking one of its most Christian elements If they were serious about trying to improve the Church, they would be asking for the help of these religious women in running the Church, and not looking for flaws in their laudable efforts. Instead, they regard them, and all women, as inferior to males. Why else do they insist on implying in the Mass that Jesus did not
come to save women? I refer to the words of the Nicene Creed which says in
part, "Jesus Christ .Who for us men and for our salvation came down..".
Surely the phrase reads better without the word "men".

I hope and pray that my Church will soon turn from its current path leading
to total irrelevance, and once more become a trusted moral leader.

I am a proud member of Christ the King and happy to say I signed this petition on Sunday. I was taught by nuns in grade school, highschool and for 2 years of college and owe these women a great deal. Yes, some were not were not highly educated but they sacrificed much for us. Following Vatican II, these brave and holy women transformed themselves into true partners of Christ spreading his gospel and bringing the Beatitudes to life. Yes, there are probably a few women religious who push the limits and maybe even go against the male dominated hierarchy, but in no way does the church need to spend money to conduct a top secret investigation into their lives. They should be commended for going about God's work and living their lives in virtual poverty. Who cares what they wear--it is usually stuff they find in resale shops or get as a donation. They do not live in secrecy or hide behind closed doors so shouldnt be treated as potential traitors!

What is it that Fr. Joyce and others are concerned about? If the American sisters are truly the models of service and fidelity that they say they are (just look at the gushing praise in the petition), what is there to fear about a few questions? They should be welcoming the Vatican visitation as a means to show off their on-going good works.

Or, perhaps they are afraid that it will be noted that their accomplishments are a thing of the past and are simply memories of a time gone by.

Perhaps they are afraid that the visitation will highlight the differences between vibrant religious orders like the Nashville Dominicans or the SOLT Sisters that are bursting at the seams with new, young members, compared to those that are dying out like a parched weed in an Arizona summer. In facing those differences, they’d have to admit that there is something beneficial to traditional practices.

Perhaps they are afraid that they won’t be able to explain why professed members of Catholic religious communities are actively promoting and encouraging abortions, or why labyrinths and other new age prayer innovations are found on motherhouse grounds.

I don’t know what the fear is, but I do know this: if employees of my company were openly and publicly critical of my company’s policies, products, and services, they wouldn’t be given the benefit of a three year investigation.

I live in Cleveland area of Ohio, and have read a great deal about this controversy. First off, I am not your typical Catholic because I joined the church as an adult and after being baptized Episcopalian, visiting and considering many different churches and denominations especially Unitarian Universalist. I have to say that my joining the church is not something I regret, but I have begun to reconsider it except for groups like Call to Action and Futurechurch, which keep my faith afloat.

I do not understand why the Catholic Church has such defensiveness, guardedness and resistance over issues that must be dealt with. Namely, that many parishes are having to close due to lack of priests. Secondly, due to the child sexual abuse crisis, the Church has an obligation to consider the underpinnings of how that occurred for centuries. I am a child services social worker who saw a lot of this first-hand. And finally, there is absolutely no justifiable reason why a priest must be a man, must be a celibate man or an unmarried man! Married and female priests should be allowed to be ordained.

Contraception also should be dropped as an issue or "doctrine", because the Church doesn't have the right to "guilt" people over family size and wanting to have sexual relations without conceiving.

I guess you don't need to ask but I am also in support of keeping abortion safe and legal. Catholics for Pro-Choice is an organization that exists. Most of the conservative voices I hear (whether about support of nuns or other issues) are so unaware that Catholics differ in social contexts as individuals. They would seek us to be a melting pot, homogeneous in our beliefs.

My higher power is not the pope. The structure of the Catholic Church and its papal hierarchy will be its downfall. Dogma decided by a bunch of men who overlooked the molestation of children for ages. It is time for a breath of fresh air and another Vatican overhaul like in Vatican II. Or just keep losing members, families, church parishes and buildings, funding, nuns, respect...because that is what is happening.

All this anger from the sisters and their supporters reminds me of James 1:21, "The anger of man (women) never accomplishes the justice of God."
I don't think it's the good works that is the problem but the new age spirituality (come on, you KNOW it is there), the disregard for the founding charism, an an "american" view of obedience which is really not christian. Maybe the visitation could be done in a different way, I don't know. But the reaction of the sisters and their supporters gives one pause to wonder about the anger. If your so angry, how can you do any good? And the very disrespectful language about the Vatican...that does not sound like something that should come from a Christian, let alone a consecrated religious. From what I am reading there is a lot to be desired in the area of civility.

Abortion. Homosexuality. Womenpriests. Nuns in secular clothing. Pedophiles.

We are an angry lot. We have strong opinions. Abortion kills an unborn child. Homosexuality is disordered. Womenpriests are not what Jesus wanted. Nuns in secular clothing are disrespectful to religious life. Pedophiles are criminals who destroy young lives.

We are mad as hell.

Stop killing our children. Stop acting like the heathens who built the Golden Calf that Moses broke with the Tablets. Put your habits back on and respect your vows. Stay away from my kids.

We are afraid. We feel helpless. All we want is for things to be the way they used to be, for people to stop hurting each other, for people to get along, for people to help others, for people to have some respect, for people to behave themselves, for people to take life and God and the rules seriously.

Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Jesus welcomed everybody to the table. Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors and prostitutes. Jesus cared more about whether you loved than whether your outfit was proper.

Abortion is legal in this country. Perhaps we need to work to make it unnecessary.
Homosexuals do not choose their orientation and they have every right to have the same life as heterosexuals who also do not choose their orientation.
Jesus never said that women could not be priests. (The Jesus-picked-only-men-as-apostles thing is a very poor reason.)
Nuns/Sisters can serve God just as well in a pair of jeans as a habit, just like anybody else who has dedicated their life to God. Go visit a L'Arche home sometime.
Pedophilia is a serious psychological disorder which needs to be understood and dealt with so that no one with this condition ever has contact with any child.

Thank you, Fr. Joyce, for your courage.

What is wrong with an investigation? This just betrays the typical American paranoia for anything which would somehow infringe on their so-called freedom. And with the reaction of priests and religious, I wonder whether these people who have negative reaction to this visitation ever understand what true freedom is and what they are trying to protect by all means.

I have 50 dollars that says this parish has rampant liturgical abuse.

Hey, people of God -- what's with all the hateful rhetoric? The Church, fortunately, is a wide umbrella, despite what those of us who are very conservative (traditional) or very liberal would like to think. Most Catholics fall in between and ALL of us, I believe, are trying to serve God. Let's give each other a little compassion and understanding.

I'm almost embarrassed to be pro-life, because so many of my fellow pro-lifers sound like absolute lunatics. No matter what the issue, they manage to work in abortion and then talk about it in a way that persuades absolutely no one at all to their point of view. I also think there is a kind of hubris in being so absolutely certain all the time that they are right and that anyone who disagrees with them "should leave the church".

Bravo to our convert from Cleveland! I am with you all the way. Forcing rules down anyone's throat never works. It seems to me a schism is coming...those that want to be told what to do and not think for themselves will go with Rome. Those who believe in a personal loving God will be able to follow the teachings of Vatican 2.

I taught with the sisters(Adrian Dominican and Benedictines) for 12 years. These were and are truly warm,loving people. They were involved in the surrounding communities. They were Christ to the poor on the streets and to the students in the classroom. Isn't that what we are here for to be Christ to others? Doesn't our prayer to Our Lord come from the heart and not from a "how to" guide from Rome? And speaking of investigations, I think we need the lay people to investigate the heirachy over this pedophile debacle that still goes on and the lay people need to get to the bottom of the systemic practices, lies and lack of transparency that has caused scandal. I really feel that Rome (the Vatican and the heirachy) lost their moral standing for many Catholics with their lies, their poor handling of the situation and the way they bullied the children and their parents throughout this pedophilia scandal.

So, why are we suppose to listen to them on anything like birth control, abortion(I am not for it but figured that out on my own...didn't have to be told by the Pope how to think about it) women priests, married priests, divorce? So many lay people have totally lost the respect that they once had towards them.

It seems that it probably died with Card. Joseph Bernadine, a truly wonderful shepherd, good leader and supporter of our priests and sisters and lay people (whether they were gay, divorced, of different color, or different religion he was a brother to all of them). We in Chicago sure do miss his leadership and loving, humorous ways. Now we are stuck with King George and he has all the priests afraid of him. He is nothing but a liar and a bully. And then the heirachy wonders why so many people are leaving the Catholic church? Please do not answer this with your pious platitudes and righteousness. God loves freedom, not force. It is an invitation to follow our Lord not a command.

It seems to me that the point of the Christ the King peition is support of the sisters as whole, not of the questionable actions of a few.

My goodness these ladies taught us, established schools and hospitals and safe places for the poor and unwed to give birth to their babies.

All Catholic women owe sisters for establishing high schools and colleges in support of the education of women.

They were the ones who went ahead, establishing a Catholic presence with the priest many times reaping their harvest.

In September 2009 US House of Representatives passed a resolution honoring the Catholic sisters of America. It was signed by all the house members ;about the only thing that got 100% of approval by both Democrats and Republicans.
It is beautiffully written and should be read by all American Catholics.

If I did not know any better I would say this was Salem, Mass in 1689- lets throw them in water with a stone and see if they float.

I won't even mention that they did not molest children and that the sisters have to pay all costs of the investigation.

Thank-you Christ the King parish for your courage and wisdom.

Milbo and Susana deserve each other. The Vatican has no right to demand that women religious degrade themselves by answering a counter-productive "survey." The fact they are calling this an ivestigation automatically insinuates that they did something wrong. The money needed to cover the expenses would be better served helping the homeless, hungry, and marginalized. Any true Catholic would know that. Milbo and Susana, you should be ashamed to call yourselves Catholic...You're bringing down the integrity and universality of the church. I think you two should start your own church.

I truly feel if we had more pastors like Brian Joyce, the church would be more like Christ. I think most of his critics know that. They've just surrendered their ability to think for themselves to an often fallible authority.

Father Brian is an amazing example of what a modern priest should be!

Fr. Joyce is a great example of what a modern priest should be.... in the 70's. I attended his parish for some time, and always got this creepy used car salesman vibe off of him, like he were running for office. He's great at pressing the flesh and flashing the pearly whites, and he sees himself as some sort of cutting-edge harbinger of things to come in the future, progressive church. The fact is, he's getting very old, and his brand of 60's style protest/liberal-chic activism plays pretty well at his parish, because he knows his audience. He also knows his limits and what he can and can't get away with.

Fact is, Fr. Joyce is popular with like minded feminists and limousine liberals and plays to his base: end of story. He will go away pretty soon. His ilk used to be a dime a dozen, but are retiring and passing the mantle to young priests who roll their eyes at this sort of self-satisfied nonsense.

Fr. Joyce is popular with stretch pants "hair do" nuns. Fr. Joyce can have his tacky Novus Ordo guitar strumming parish with its Protestant trappings! The fact is, the Vatican has every right to look into the crazy world of US women's religious orders. These women have thrown away the religious habit, adopted stretch pants, skirts, earrings, makeup, gym memberships, and quasi-lesbian hair dos. They have become secular nuns. What they are is a joke. Most Catholics like to see nuns in a religious habit, but these sisters want to dress, live and act like they are graduate students in a college dorm. Why don't they just become Protestants?