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PDF versionAbp. Williams laments 'chaos' over women, gays
Feb. 11, 2010
LONDON -- Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams warned Anglican clergy Tuesday (Feb. 9) that their debate about female and gay bishops is causing “chaos” that must be resolved if the Church of England is to be unified.
In a key address in London, Williams pleaded with the General Synod -- the church's parliament -- to start listening to each other and stop pursuing a “zero-sum, self-congratulating” course.
Otherwise, he said, “the present effect is chaos.”
The archbishop added, in an apparent reference to the Episcopal Church, that “certain decisions made by some provinces impact so heavily on the conscience and mission of others that fellowship is strained or shattered and trust destroyed.”
In December, the Episcopal Church, which is the U.S. branch of the Anglican Communion, elected an open lesbian as an assistant bishop in Los Angeles. The 2004 consecration of an openly gay priest as bishop of New Hampshire has caused deep dissent within the Anglican Communion.
As head of the worldwide communion, Williams is fighting to keep it from flying apart amid disagreements and feuds over gay bishops in the United States and female bishops in Britain.
What's needed, the archbishop said, is a new set of guidelines for the communion. “We need to look for a resolution that allows some measure of continuing dignity and indeed liberty to all.”
In an appeal for unity, the archbishop said, “The challenges of our local and global Anglican crises have to do with how this shapes our councils and decision-making. It is not a simple plea for the sacrifice of the minority to the majority.”
He called for a “major change of heart all round” among Anglicans and urged them to “discover an ecclesiastical fellowship in which we trust each other to act for our good.”
Like the Queen in who's name
Like the Queen in who's name he serves, Rowan Williams has the power to suggest. Unlike the Queen, Williams cannot compel anyone to listen to his suggestions, even a little, even once. Williams barely has authority in his own CoE archdiocese.
A question for would-be Catholic reformers who want to democratize the Roman Catholic Church: is the office of Rowan Cantur what you suggest for the Papacy? The CoE has democracy. What good has is done?
Almost 500 years after the English Reformation and Britain is on its way to becoming a majority Muslim country.
The question is what has two
The question is what has two thousand years of vatican degenerates done. The Catholic Church is dissolving everywhere people can read and write. The question is not as facile as democracy or some pagan maximus remnant. The current set-up could not be more destructive. The Church leadership is helpless with literate people if it cannot burn them for disobedience.
Is segregation the answer?
Is segregation the answer? Should gays form their own church, separating indeed creating a schism from both the Anglican and Catholic churches that put homophobia and misogyny ahead of Jesus' promise of salvation for all?
This is HYPOCRISY, pure and
This is HYPOCRISY, pure and simple, on the part of Archbishop Williams. He is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He is trying to appease right wing evangelical elements in The Church of England as he devalues gay and lesbian people, by taking a position that they can only be accepted if they are celibate. He can't see the value of same sex monogamous partnerships unless both parties remain celibate. Ridiculous as well as another form of violence against this group of people by the mere fact that he devalues them as he apologizes to them. The right wing elements he is trying to appease, are the same groups that oppose women's ordination and are trying to turn back the clock on women's equality in The Church of England. The Anglicans that are considering a conversion to Rome, are for the most part, anti-women's ordination in any form, and most definitely, anti-homosexual. These are the people the Pope is welcoming into The Church of Rome.
Wait. I thought the
Wait. I thought the Episcopal Church was the perfect Church? It has female clergy. It has openly gay clergy. It has no pope. Anyone can receive communion. You can support abortion if you want. It is the answer to every liberal Catholic hope and dream! How can it be falling apart if it has everything Jesus ever wanted in his church??
It's falling apart because
It's falling apart because the conservative bigots are ripping themselves from the fabric of the Church in an effort to preserve their own private club. Not an unknown phenomenon among many sects of Christians.
Spot on! It also has divorce,
Spot on!
It also has divorce, it also proclaims "ideals" without expecting anybody ever to aspire to them, it allows of liturgies all the way from high to low, it allows contraception (pioneered the way there, too, after initially talking out of both sides of its mouth) and never ever really interferes in government (except, of course, to urge tons of foreign aid to irresponsible basket case governments).....
You miss the point entirely,
You miss the point entirely, again. If you persist as you do in a polarized view of Christianity, then you will forever be divisive. If you see the Catholic Church as the opposite of the Episcopal Church, you then ignore our own scandals and divisions that are similar if not identical in their foundations. And, quite clearly, you cannot at all understand the hopes and dreams of anyone else, no matter what their standing is on any given issue, as your sarcasm and attacks blind you to those things. Jesus taught us that.
The problem seems to be that
The problem seems to be that many old religions are "falling" apart! The issues of gay marriage and misogyny are important issues that need better understanding by all groups of people.
Catholicism is falling apart partially because of its theology of sex. Every sin of impurity committed by the laity seems to be defined as a mortal sin by so many Bishops. Some sins such as abortion are calls by these Bishops for excommunication. Yet
Catholicism seems not to understand the scientific definition of abortion- the
separation of the embryo from the uterus. Catholicism now is claiming that the interference with the blastocoel implantation to the uterus is in fact an abortion, as is a side effect in some cases of Birth control pill utilization. Scientifically we know that well over 60% of all blastocysts in normal women do not implant. We know that a female athlete that is very active may also have a uterine lining that is hostile for implantation. The same thing is true in some depressed women and for some women on many types of medications. It seems to me that the good Bishops are once again failing to look down the Galilean microscope to ascertain the scientific facts. This is Episcopal failure- FAILURE TO EXAMINE WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SHOWING THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
We also know of the horrible sexual crisis caused by the attempted forced celibacy on some priests. Yet 5 years ago, we did not hear of the terrible sins necessitating excommunication or even kicking men out of the priesthood. This is simply hypocrisy and a call for the laity to live one standard and the cleric to live another. Of course the lack of proper Episcopal correction for the abusing priests who raped children or had affairs with women, of whom they heard confessions and distributed the Eucharist, often producing offspring has been rampant for 1000 years.
The lack of oversight of the Vatican Bank that is famous for the laudrying money and the fiscal irresponsibility of closed minded bishops and some pastors is a big reason for institutional failure.
The authoritarian mind set of the leadership with out an open forum for the People of God to understand the bases for decision making is perhaps the worst of all offenses. The idea that clergy can have a theology of decision making (mental reservations) that allows them to lie to their people is extreme hypocrisy. I am not implying the necessity of full democracy that might be in some ways be helpful, but I am implying and openness in decision making that the Episcopacy is not willing to use because of their own fear that ordinary people are not good enough to make ethical decisions, and their unfounded belief that the Episcopacy is equipped to make good ethical decisions. What we see is a very fertile mindset for hypocrisy and institutional failure.
So we, as Catholics, can not smugly look at the challenges of other denominations and call them failures when we should be trying to correct our own very bad problems.
May we all listen to the Holy Spirit for more peace and understanding so that we do not live so much through fear as through hope and love.
R. Dennis Porch, MD
It's 'falling apart' because
It's 'falling apart' because it's conservative members didn't like the results of it's democracy. Apparently democracy is only a good thing when your views control the results.
Rowan Williams is spending too much time and effort placating people who can't deal with the results of Anglican democracy. There is no placating them. There is only capitulating to them. That's not democracy. That's enabling behavior.
The Episcopal Church is NOT
The Episcopal Church is NOT falling apart in spite of the right wing evangelical elements that have broken away from it. It most closely resembles truly universal or catholic Church based on both Christ;s examples and teachings. True, thankfully, it has no pope. It can be argued with great accuracy that the current understanding of the Petrine ministry is so far off kilter from the first century understanding of a shepherd (bishop) that the current model only represents one that is of the imperial Roman empire and not of Christ, in the purest understanding. There is something called a right of conscience which most reactionary minds will never accept nor understand. The fact that the Episcopal Church has both female and openly gay clergy represents the INCLUSIVE nature of Christ's love, unlike the many other Christian communities who devalue and disenfranchise women and gay people, the Episcopal Church does the opposite and that, to me most closely resembles what a Catholic Church should look like. Hatred and violence against women and gay people can never be justified no matter how you try to paint it. By the way, the early Church did in fact invite ANY baptized Christian to Christ's table to receive communion. The primitive Church should be our model, NOT the imperial Roman empire model.
Chris--are you an Anglican?
Chris--are you an Anglican? Because if you are Catholic, you are not being true to your conscience.
The declining Sunday
The declining Sunday attendance and the multiplying schisms seem to indicate that the Episcopal Church is falling apart, in spite of the advantages of having priestesses, openly gay clergy, no Pope, democratically elected bishops, and even a Muslim priestess and a Buddhist bishop. Although the official position of the Episcopal Church is that only baptized Christians are to receive communion, in fact many parishes offer communion to anyone, Christian or not.
She has pared away doctrine and dogma to appeal to the spirit of the age and to private judgment. That path will lead her to something akin to Universal Unitarianism with vestments, or the Liberal Catholic Church, which claims "We are non-authoritarian, non-dogmatic and respect individual choice. We affirm inclusiveness and diversity."
Certainly hatred and violence against women and homosexuals can not be justified, but that has nothing to do with Holy Orders. Ordination is neither a civil or divine right, and the Church devalues and disenfranchises no one by not ordaining him (or her).
What does an ecclesial body that is non-authoritarian, non-dogmatic, and which accepts all beliefs offer?
For an informative analysis
For an informative analysis on the genesis of the Episcopal churches fracturing and current disintegration, read Paul Seabury's "Trendier than Thou" in Harpers magazine 1978 Dec issue. Over 40 years ago Seabury argued that a modern secularism , had entered the church in various forms most notably in pressuring
church leadership to ordain women priestesses. Once that occurred other trends
such as holding “alternative” services instead of Mass which bordered on pagan/ Nature worship began to emerge. Apparently one such “celebration” involved participants sitting in a circle with a severed Deer’s head inside St john the Devine Cathedral in New York. Today this type of activity may seem tame compared to whatever else goes on but at the time , these events prompted Seabury, a prominent political scientist, and a lifelong Episcopalian, to write the article for Harpers. If left unchecked Seabury predicted these secular trends would cause confusion, divisiveness and the eventual demise, of the church, an astounding claim at the time. Unfortunately his predictions have been highly accurate as the church is being torn apart on a daily basis.
A solution: let the Churches
A solution: let the Churches of Rome and Canterbury acknowledge each other as equally worthy forms or rites of Christianity. then let the traditionalists congregate in the one rite and the progressives in the other. This result would be much better than the atmosphere of self-destructive squabbling that both are presently inflicting on themselves.
For an informative analysis
For an informative analysis on the genesis of the Episcopal churches fracturing and current disintegration, read Paul Seabury's "Trendier than Thou" in Harpers magazine 1978 Dec issue. Over 40 years ago Seabury argued that a modern secularism , had entered the church in various forms most notably in pressuring
church leadership to ordain women priestesses. Once that occurred other trends such as holding “alternative” services instead of Mass which bordered on pagan/ Nature worship began to emerge. Apparently one such “celebration” involved participants sitting in a circle with a severed Deer’s head inside St john the Devine Cathedral in New York. Today this type of activity may seem tame compared to whatever else goes on but at the time , these events prompted Seabury, a prominent political scientist, and a lifelong Episcopalian, to write the article for Harpers. If left unchecked Seabury predicted these secular trends would cause confusion, divisiveness and the eventual demise, of the church, an astounding claim at the time. Unfortunately his predictions have been highly accurate as the church is being torn apart on a daily basis.
Certainly, autocracy is much
Certainly, autocracy is much more orderly than democracy. Democracy, like the human condition in general, is messy. Nazi Germany was much more orderly than the US was then or is now. If the goal is order in an organization, put an autocrat/tyrant in charge. So it is with the Church. To ensure order, give the Church the power to enforce its prescribed order with punishments (fines, imprisonment, torture, death) that will deter the expression of contrary positions (recall the Inquisition, especially the Spanish Inquisition). Now you have order. However, this orderliness has nothing whatsoever to do with the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and is actually contrary to both.
Honestly, I think Archbishop
Honestly, I think Archbishop Williams sees the writing on the wall that it is OVER for the Anglicans as he has known it to be. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Archbishop Williams eventually "swims the Tiber" before the ship sinks completely.
When the Vatican hierarchy
When the Vatican hierarchy can say there are no homosexuals in the clergy, then let them throw the first stone. When the Vatican gives all women equal rights as daughters of God, then it no longer will need to deny true motherhood to Mary by labeling her a "virgin," like a pagan goddess.
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