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PDF versionWhere hype meets reality
Nov. 23, 2009
Bishop Kevin Farrell (CNS/Nancy Wiechec)
Somebody with a flair for taxonomy could probably go to town creating tongue-in-cheek categories for news stories on the Catholic beat. Entries might include the “scandal” story, the “sleeper” story (one whose significance takes a while to sink in), and the “woe-is-me” story (involving anybody put upon by officialdom).
Then there’s what might be called the “invitation to hype” story, meaning a development that stirs massive discussion and controversy, even though its real-world significance isn’t actually all that great. A classic example came in 2007, with Pope Benedict XVI’s decision to authorize wider celebration of the old Latin Mass. Intense debate ensued about what the move augured for the direction of the church, yet two years later the tiny number of people regularly attending Mass in the old rite could probably be captured with the Italian expression quattro gatti e un cane -- “four cats and a dog.”
At least in the United States, we may have a new entry in the “invitation to hype” category, with the Vatican’s recent decision to create new structures, called “personal ordinariates,” to welcome former Anglicans wishing to become Catholic.
Depending on who’s talking, the move has been breathlessly styled as:
- A bold gambit to end the 500-year-old schism between Catholics and Anglicans, which dates to the English Reformation in the 16th century;
- A serious blow to ecumenical relations, amounting to Catholic “poaching” in a moment when the global Anglican Communion is already in crisis;
- A sharp lurch to the right for the Catholic church, since those Anglicans most likely to be interested are traditionalists opposed to homosexuality and women’s ordination;
- The beginning of the end for priestly celibacy in the Catholic church, since these ordinariates will have married priests;
- A stunning choice for diversity inside Catholicism, since these ordinariates will preserve much of the liturgical, spiritual and even doctrinal heritage of Anglicanism.
Somewhat buried in that avalanche of speculation, however, is the reality that the actual number of Anglicans likely to sign up, at least on the American end, is remarkably small -- so much so that some Catholic leaders are openly wondering whether there’s even a market for one of these new ordinariates in the United States.
“I don’t see any great rush in the Anglican community to come over in a group,” Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas told NCR Nov. 14. “My feeling is that most of the Anglicans who want to become Catholic have already done that.”
NCR: February 3-16, 2012
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“Personally, I don’t see the need for it [an ordinariate] here,” Farrell said.
Farrell’s impression may offer a good barometer of the broader American scene, since Texas has long been the epicenter of the “Anglo-Catholic” movement in the Episcopalian church, which feels the greatest affinity for Roman Catholicism. (The 2 million Episcopalians in America represent the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which numbers some 77 million.)
Fr. James Massa, who heads the U.S. bishops’ office for ecumenical relations, agreed. While there may be significant movement in England, Massa told NCR Nov. 16, the numbers in America are likely to be “far fewer.” Massa said that while “several thousand” Anglicans may become Catholic in England under the new deal, at least in the short term such numbers in America aren’t in the cards.
In part, those impressions are based on reactions of conservative Anglicans to Rome’s offer.
The Anglican Church in North America, a new denomination created by conservative Anglicans in the United States and Canada in 2008, issued a statement in late October predicting that “this provision will not be utilized by the great majority of [our] bishops, priests, dioceses and congregations.”
Massa said that aligns with his impression that most of these Anglicans “seem committed to seeing whether this new Anglican province can thrive.”
Farrell said that since the Vatican announcement, he has not received any feelers from local Episcopalians interested in signing up for an ordinariate. In the main, he said, Episcopalians who join the Catholic church actually want to be part of a local diocese, not a separate structure.
“They want to be Roman Catholics, and are willing to change in order to do that,” he said. Farrell said that over the last two years, roughly 250 Episcopalians have joined the Catholic church in his diocese.
The Vatican first announced plans to create new structures for Anglican converts in late October. In essence, a “personal ordinariate” amounts to a non-territorial diocese, governed by an “ordinary” (in most cases, a bishop) and including its own clergy, religious orders and lay members.
On Nov. 9, three weeks after the initial announcement, the Vatican released a papal document containing the legal blueprint for those new structures, in the form of an apostolic constitution titled Anglicanorum Coetibus (“On groups of Anglicans”).
According to explanations offered by Vatican officials, these new structures would be similar to the ordinariates that already exist in various nations for the armed forces. They’re designed to allow Anglicans to preserve much of their spiritual and liturgical heritage, including the tradition of a married priesthood. While individual Anglicans have always been able to become Catholic, these new structures would allow whole groups of Anglicans to join the church in corporate fashion.
Vatican officials have presented the decision as a response to requests from Anglicans, rather than something initiated by Rome. The best-known such request came from a network of churches called the Traditional Anglican Communion, which claims a following of 400,000 people around the world, including 5,000 in the United States.
How many of those Anglicans will decide to become Catholics, however, remains to be seen. Observers say the bulk is concentrated in Africa and India, where they represent a strong majority within local Anglican churches -- thus diminishing the incentive to leave.
Massa said that while the immediate impact of the Vatican move may be limited, it’s nonetheless a “bold” decision that could have long-term implications in two ways: First, as a template for incorporating the spiritual traditions of other branches of Western Christianity into the Catholic church, such as Lutheranism; second, as a stage in a gradual “blurring” of the distinctions between Catholics and Anglicans -- perhaps especially in Africa, where both churches are growing rapidly, and where both share a basically conservative stance on matters such as homosexuality and women priests.
John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His e-mail address is jallen@ncronline.org.
Haha. That Bishop would have
Haha. That Bishop would have no chance playing poker at a table with people who know the game for real. Rookies always try to downplay their hands when it's real good, the hardly more experienced sometimes tries to test whether he can jack up the pot, while the pro know how to read his audience and play accordingly. I'm from Dallas. This is the great Unification that every Episcopalian I know has been talking about for so long, at least four years! I'm talking about lay Anglicans and Seminarians. Sorry, I don't know any "pastoral" presiders (I won't go so far as to call them priests due to the lack of efficacy in their right apart from full communion with the Church, which, is there any other kind of communion? either you have it or you don't). But seriously, from Laredo to Dallas to Shreveport, they are ready and eager.
I'm guessing that you are
I'm guessing that you are called "Anonymous" so that no one can remind you of this entry when the data actually comes in. Just the facts, Jack.
the holy father benedict 16th
the holy father benedict 16th acknowledges the legitimacy of the anglican priestly ordinations -- last month he gave a bishop's pectoral cross to the archbishop of canterbury. higher ecclesiology aside, common sense tells us that a bishop does not give such an item to a fake pretend bishop. earlier another holy father gave a bishop's ring to another archbishop of canterbury. so really, catholics like myself who are disgruntled by roman hostility to women, gays, liberation theologians ... can cross the thames with the holy father's blessing.
Why do you feel as if you
Why do you feel as if you need B-16's blessing? People are defecting from the Roman church everyday. Besides, if you're not towing the Vatican line most Catholics say you have already left anyway, might as well make it official.
"Most Catholics" don't say
"Most Catholics" don't say any such thing, but leave their neighbors in some holy peace. There is small minority THAT NEVER STOPS SCREAMING AT EVERYONE to leave the Church. Get behind me, Satan.
You should go on these blogs
You should go on these blogs and you will see that "Most Catholics" actually DO say such a thing. Go on Beliefnet and Catholic Answers. They have made it very clear, as has the RC bishops in the US that you can not defect from teachings of the church and still call yourself Roman Catholic. There will be no female priests or the right to conscience when it comes to artificial contraception. Not in the RCC. So yes, they do say such and thing and in your bishop's eyes, if you believe in these things you have ALREADY LEFT! You can either go to confession and repent or leave. Keep telling yourself that they aren't saying this. You're only lying to yourself.
To be fair the internet does
To be fair the internet does unfairly concentrate those voices all together. I have been there and they are very spiritually draining places but that is just the ultra-vocal minority concentrated in one place. Most parishes have people who are much more modern/progressive compared to those places. Sure you could find a parish here or there that is like those websites, but those are still in the minority.
The gift of challenging my beliefs to hang out at those places for a while is I am more comfortable in my beliefs, which are on the open-minded, real world, style Catholicism. Yes I know there are those "love it or leave it" folks out there, they were there before and there will be some more in the future, yet my spirituality and faith goes beyond the dividing, extreme rule-centric people.
I am glad you posted this. I
I am glad you posted this. I have been excommunicated by Catholic Answers, and I am sure that if the Church ever decides that on does not have the right to exercise one's conscience that I would have reason to leave the Church and never set foot in a Catholic Church again.
There are many who would turn the Church into a cult. I am glad that their numbers are not as many as I was led to believe.
Thank God for that. Yes,
Thank God for that. Yes, indeed.
No doubt the bishop has
No doubt the bishop has established a number of filters between him and who ever might want to contact him about the ordinariate. Father James Massa is a professional at ecumenism who no doubt is unhappy about the end round done around him.
I'll believe it when I see
I'll believe it when I see it.
quattro gatti e un cane --
quattro gatti e un cane -- “four cats and a dog.”
In this context, John, so long as they are all wearing the correct and matching vestments (and if any of the cats or the dog are a former bishop, they get to sit in their new episcopal conference) nothing else really matters.
If one person sees the light
If one person sees the light and leaves heresy because of this decision, if one child goes from eating bread to receiving Our Lord worthily in the Blessed Sacrament, if one well intentioned man goes from promoting heresy to Celebrating Truly the Mysteries of Redemption it is worth it. May we as Catholics grow more perfect in love and accept any "younger sons" that come Home and celebrate with them.
It is this brand of ARROGANCE
It is this brand of ARROGANCE that is so against everything that Jesus taught!
You mean the arrogance of
You mean the arrogance of believing in objective truth?
Actually I believe that Jesus VERY MUCH believes in objective truth rather than "your religion is as good as mine!"
BTW: if you think that converting people to the faith is arrogant than perhaps you would like to read about the many martyrs of the faith who DIED for other's souls!
There were martyrs on both
There were martyrs on both sides, just so you know. There was nothing BUT ARROGANCE on how this whole thing took place. The Vatican didn't even have the decency to alert the Archbishop of Canterbury of their actions. I imagine most long time RCs are angry at the Vatican's move. You think for the majority of these "Anglicans in name only" it's a true conversion to your faith? I imagine for only a small percentage it is, but most of these guys are very much Protestant at heart. They won't be in your churches for long.
Can you look into the heart
Can you look into the heart of a person?
Also:
1) If you actually think that NCR, and the people who comment here, are really an example of "what most lont time RC's" think then your wrong.
2) The Catholic faith does not make decisions due to popularity poles and what contemporary societies think. Worshipping God and saving souls is the duty of the Church. Leading others to the sacraments is our goal.
3) Many of the Anglicans who are converting are realizing the importance of the papacy. They saw the chaos which engulfed the Anglican Communion.I think that many of them will sincerely convert.
The only Episcopalians who
The only Episcopalians who want anything to do with the Roman Church are the anti-woman, anti-gay crowd.
So the Church must only
So the Church must only accept perfect people? No "anti-woman, anti-gay" sinners? Did Jesus come to call everyone, or only those we are comfortable inviting to dinner? The Catholic Church is a church of imperfect sinners, so we have space enough both for NCR readers and those whom they have judged to be "anti-woman" and "anti-gay."
LOL, you missed his point
LOL, you missed his point completely. Try having another look at it.
I believe that there will be
I believe that there will be an avalance in the future. When Prince William takes the throne, if not before he is king, he will convert to Catholicism and there will be once again an earthly king to promote the values of our Heavenly King.
I see no indication that
I see no indication that William is inclined to overturn what Henry VIII did in 1534. He lives and relates to modern times and I see no indication he would want to turn the clock back to 1534-era practices. He is not interested in the imagined faux-Utopian times of the past.
Times have changed and the English monarchy has changed since medieval days. It is a much diminished role of just a figurehead. The modern world has moved beyond infallible earthly monarchies.
Why would someone upset with
Why would someone upset with gay clergy even think of joining the Catholic Church!
The only difference between
The only difference between 'openly' gay clergy and closeted gay clergy is that the openly gay have the integrity to admit their orientation.
I don't think it is a secret
I don't think it is a secret for those in the know that very few of those unhappy with the Anglican Church who are still members were going to cross over. This was largely going to be for the group calling itself "The Traditional Anglican Communion" and few others. Anglicans generally are content to say that they are unhappy, and vow "one more thing and I'm outta here" than actually leave.
Even if there isn't enough for an Anglican Ordinate in United States (which I doubt), there certainly is enough for one for North America.
If one "Anonymous" would
If one "Anonymous" would write her name we might value her opinions.
The Vatican can keep its
The Vatican can keep its offer. I'll stay in the Anglican Communion. Those that join your church are only leaving because they are anti-gay and anti-woman. They don't really believe in the tenants of your church. I imagine most will come crawling back to Canterbury after a while or they might just stop attending churches all together.
The one who used the
The one who used the expression "quattro gatti e un cane", referring to the pope's tiny audience, is the Vatican correspondent for RAI 3 television who was severely criticized by church officials and removed from his position.
The old-time imperial types
The old-time imperial types are globally in retreat. Potential membership in the club of oldtime mutual sympathizers is diminishing; the remaining few understandably need to console each other. So, the joined hype of Catholic/ Anglicans is also understandable. Smile. The New cannot be reversed.
Join the New, Oldtimers. I did.
What most Catholics and non
What most Catholics and non Catholic commentators don't know, is that far before this decision was made, there were already Anglican use parishes within the Catholic Church, in which former Anglican parishes get to keep their Anglican liturgical traditions, and have been for several years. There aren't that many of them, and I think most of them are in Texas, and definately almost all in America. Still most Catholics aren't aware of these parishes. I don't know that many Anglicans have flocked to the Catholic Church to participate in these liturgies (most of the converts from Anglicanism that I know go to the regular Roman rite liturgy), and they haven't overwhelmingly caused the church to become more conservative. I don't see how this "new" structure for Anglicans who want to become Catholic will have a very big effect on the church, at least in America, as these parishes have already existed here for years.
Actually Father Mitch Pacwa
Actually Father Mitch Pacwa on EWTN had a good show on 12/2 explaining the New Apostolic Constitution for the Anglicans.It was very interesting,I urge you to check it out.It does not matter if 500 Anglicans cross the Tiber or 500,000 all are welcome.As for the liberal Catholics who count this as another move by Pope Benedict that they hate lol Wake up.You are really wasting your time if you think the Church's positions on homosexuality or women clergy are going to change!I mean really.So please check out that local Episcopal Church...I am sure you will love it there.Rainbow flags anyone?
It is opinions such as these
It is opinions such as these which serve to cause confusion and division in the first place. Liberal Catholics do not hate the pope, the church, or even right wing bigots such as yourself. We have faith in the Church (aka the People of God) and trust that the Spirit will continue to move the Church along into the challenges of the future. I would urge you to read up on Church history. You will be suprised to see that many teachings have evolved and changed throughout our 2000 year history. It takes courage to stay within the Church and face controversial issues head-on. The easy way out is either to leave the Church, or retreat into a dogmatic conservativism. And yes, I will take a rainbow flag....perhaps do you have one with the Papal Tiara upon it? I really wish the pope would bring that back. I mean....it's FABULOUS...
irishryan: The hatred,
irishryan: The hatred, ignorance and hypocrisy that you have expressed in your posting on this particular thread tells me you are not a disciple of Christ but a disciple of the cult of personality and right wing reactionary media like EWTN. I think it is perhaps YOU who need to wake up. Your homophobia and misogyny are evident and this in itself tells me you are not a Catholic Christian but instead a pharisee in Catholic clothing. Jesus ALWAYS included the disenfranchised, and I'm certain that would include those with rainbow flags. He never asked someone to LEAVE his table and I quote you, "check out that local Episcopal Church." You seem to enjoy devaluing others with different opinions and in doing so I find it hard to believe that you really know who and what Jesus taught, lived and stood for, most of all, the LOVE that Jesus expressed for all people. I'm not buying your cheap shots and the damage they may do to others.
Right on.
Right on.
The Apostolic Constitution
The Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus is a landmark policy decision that will work, it will be administered by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, whose personnel is very loyal to Benedict 16, who was their boss for many years.
Anglicans will come, they ask to come, and the doors were opened very wide by the Pope. Only time will tell, how many, and from where, and for how many years.
This extraordinary decision will have many impacts on the Catholic Church (the correct name, "Roman" Catholic only refers to the "Latin" Church or Western Church, see Canon 1 of the Code of Canon Law.
On celibacy for the clergy: it is only required of the Latin rite candidates for the priesthood, the discipline of the Code of the Canons of the Oriental Churches approved by HH John Paul II, it is not required. In the most catholic of Middle Eastern countries: Lebanon, 50% of all priests are married men, according to Cardinal Pierre Nasrallah Sfeir, as he stated during the first Synod (2005) called by HH Benedict 16. (The new situation is that among the 3 groupings of churches within the Catholic Church: Latin, Oriental, and former Anglicans, only the Latin Church still has the mandatory celibacy for the priests. For how long, only God knows.
As to women "clergy", an important distinction must be made: THERE IS NO TRADITION EITHER IN THE WEST OR IN THE EAST, OF WOMEN PRIEST. As to WOMEN DEACONS, the situation is different. See Letter to Romans 16, 1, and Canon XV of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon, 451 A.D., which provides that no women shall be ordained deacon before her 40th birthday. During the Synod on Asia in the 1990's the Chaldean Patriarch of Bagdad asked the Pope to re-establish the diaconate for women. This issue has not been rejected by Rome, it is merely pending. It should be recalled here that the diaconate for men was out of existence, as a permanent status, for many centuries until Vatican II).
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