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PDF versionPope, cardinals don’t need prayer; they need to listen
Nov. 11, 2010
(CNS photo/Paul Haring)
COMMENTARY
Recently I finished reading Xavier Rynne's monumental volume on the Second Vatican Council. I didn't read it when it was first published because I was struggling through theology, just trying to get a grip on the dogmatic and canonical mysteries of the Catholic church I was born into and into which I had thought I'd soon be ordained.
Reading the book now was more soul-jarring than had I read it then. What's so shocking?
At the council there were a significant number of bishops, archbishops and cardinals who actually had a handle on the real world and on the reasons the Church Triumphant left by Pius XII was so out of touch. This is shocking in light of the fact that these men were raised in a radically different church, steeped in clericalism, power and control.
Some of the men I read about had a much better grip on reality than most of the gilded hierarchs that have been inflicted on God's people over the past two decades. Pope John XXIII and his cohorts may not have liked everything they saw when they opened the windows of the clerical bunker, but at least they realized that before they condemned what they didn't know it might be smart to check it out.
Today's collection of bishops is radically different. Many of them, at least the ones who are regularly holding forth on what is wrong with everything around them, sound and act as if they are living in a hermetically sealed alternate reality. They are convinced that the world "out there" is wrong about most moral and ethical issues. They of course, being the divinely appointed teachers of the human race, are always right. They act and sound as if the only acceptable way for the world to exist is according to whatever norms, models and structures these satin and silk-enshrouded anachronisms hand down. They firmly believe the outside world, steeped as they claim, in secularism and relativism, must change to the extent that it clearly reflects their myopic view of existence.
The pope keeps agonizing over these encroaching threats of "secularism" and "relativism." Many of the bishops, wanting of course to gain favor in the pontifical eyes, parrot the papal pronouncements in their own attempts to communicate to their "faithful." I have struggled to figure out just what the pope means. I am losing the struggle because I have only a smog covered clue … what he's afraid of is that people out there in the real world … the abode of the vast majority who aren't Catholic clerics, don't think the way they're supposed to think and that means they don't think like he does.
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The Vatican announced Nov. 8 that the pope would hold a meeting Nov. 19 of the world's cardinals, of which there are 183 according to the 2010 Annuario Pontificio, the topic of which will be the world-wide clergy sex abuse scandal. He's also inviting the latest batch of appointees although technically speaking they won't be real cardinals until the following day when they get to put on their scarlet raiment for the first time.
The meeting, according to Vatican press dispatches, is supposed to include "prayer and reflection." If nothing else, the proposed gathering shows that the worldwide nightmare of clergy sex abuse, which the popes, cardinals and bishops have been desperately trying to shut down by every means imaginable, has finally gotten the pope's attention. If it has the pope's attention and he took the unprecedented step of calling this kind of meeting, you can be sure a lot of the Vatican luminaries who surround the pope and "advise" him have finally realized that the problem isn't going away.
The trouble is that this will end up being another meaningless disappointment. The worldwide sex abuse nightmare doesn't need "prayer" and "reflection" now and it never needed it because these pious sound-bites are really ineffectual attempts to shift the attention from the gravity of the real problem. If prayer and reflection worked, the problem would have been gone long ago. What the pope and the cardinals really need is an unvarnished assessment of just how horrendous the world-wide scourge really is and an unvarnished admission that the pope and the collected cardinals and bishops are not just part of the problem. They are the problem.
Pope John Paul II summoned the U.S. cardinals to Rome in April 2002 and told them sex abuse of a child is a crime and a sin. Duh!!!! After this meeting several of the cardinals continued to confirm their abrasive and uninformed attitudes by mouthing off to the effect that it's all a media exaggeration and that priests and bishops cannot be held accountable to civil authorities.
Nothing happened and nothing could have happened just as nothing can possibly happen in the upcoming extravaganza.
If the pope wants to get a real picture of the sex abuse phenomenon, presuming his emotions and intellect can handle it, he needs to talk to the right people. When he and these people get together all he needs to do is say is "Hello! Have some nice esperesso." Then he needs to sit quietly and listen, no matter how long it takes.
He needs to listen to the victims, not just for two minutes apiece as he has done with the dozen or so he's met, but for as long as it takes for him to get a slight glimpse of the horrific nature of this worldwide pandemic. From all he has said so far it's clear that he's a long way from "getting it." He needs to absorb their fears, their anger, their disappointments and he needs to hear their demands.
He needs to forget about defending the perverse actions of the bishops, archbishops and cardinals because there is no honest defense.
He needs to listen to the men and women survivors who have arisen from their prisons of fear and shame and have pulled other survivors together in world-wide support groups. He especially needs to listen to these people because they are the ones in the driver's seat of this whole debacle, not the churchmen who thought they had control of it throughout the decades and even centuries. The popes and the bishops never had control. If they did they would not have had to lie so much.
He needs to listen to some of the attorneys from the United States, Canada, Ireland and England, especially the ones the Exalted Lord Bishops have vilified because these same attorneys forced them to look at the damage they had caused. Many of these attorneys have done what the bishops and priests were either unable to do or afraid to do … they listened, they believed and they provided support.
He needs to listen to the psychologists and psychiatrists who have struggled to help so many victims find peace.
He needs to listen to the same mental health professionals who have tried in vain to wake the episcopal aristocracy up to the harsh reality that most Catholic priests are very immature and some deeply troubled. Unless something radical is done, the sex abuse debacle we have been living through will hardly be the last one.
He needs to listen to those who have been telling him that mandatory celibacy doesn't work.
He needs to listen to those very few priests and even fewer bishops who have stood with the victims and survivors, always at great cost to their own careers. He needs to listen well as they describe what it's like to try to help people whose souls have been shredded and who can't possibly believe in the same God the holds out.
Above all, the pope needs to sit and listen to the devout, faithful, generous and loyal mothers and fathers of the victims. He needs to hear from these men and women the anguish they felt when they learned their little boy or little girl had been raped and molested. He needs to see and hear the abject horror they experienced when that terrible blow was followed by one much worse .. that the man who did this was a priest!
The pope and the cardinals are wasting their time and a lot of the people's money … money the donors naively thought would go towards helping those in need instead of supporting an anachronistic and hedonistic lifestyle. They are setting themselves up to deliver yet another elaborate public relations "happening" to the world. The Vatican spokesman keeps telling us the pope is deeply concerned about the clergy abuse "crisis," There is little doubt that he is, but not because of the massive harm done to countless victims and their families and to the disappointed faithful who are tired of waiting for the "church" to do something meaningful.
He and the cardinals are deeply concerned, but they're concerned for the wrong reasons. They see their credibility, their power and their relevance eroding at an ever increasing rate. They see a rapidly growing number of Catholics who refuse to be treated as children by the bishops and who pose a very serious threat to the crumbling myth that the pope and the bishops know what's best for all. They see the growing chasm between the moral code the hierarchy is trying to persuade everyone, even non-Catholics, to accept and the reality of what is really happening out there in the world they are so afraid of.
This meeting will come and go as will the elaborate ceremony the next day when the pope will formally invest the 31 new members of the "Sacred" College. In the long run the most concrete effect of it all will be the added business for the Roman robe makers. The pope, the Vatican and the rest of the world's hierarchy will not bring about the needed change because they are unable and not simply unwilling to do so. Their personal interests are far too deeply ingrained to allow then to make the sacrifices needed to step down from their thrones and be for the suffering and marginalized rather than for themselves.
The pope and the cardinals have betrayed the real church. They have perpetrated the sexual and spiritual violence just as much as the priests who physically violated the victims. They need to be willing to say "I hurt you" and not hide behind Vatican mumbo jumbo and double-speak.
They need to acknowledge that the formalities and legalities they have relied on to protect their own interests have been secondary and equally vicious acts of violence against the victims.
They need to admit that restitution is essential and deserved by the men and women abused by the immediate perpetrators but also by the church.
They need to acknowledge that they have intentionally tried to shift the responsibility for this worldwide debacle to other persons, to societal forces and even to the victims themselves and they need to admit without qualification that they, the hierarchs of the church, are solely responsible for the horrific damage to the victims and to the Body of Christ.
It is beyond hope that anything but more useless words will come out of this meeting. The fallout will be even more evidence that the institutional church is completely incapable of initiating a change in its self-destructive course.
Editor's Note: Read Eugene Kennedy's take on the pope's meeting with the world's cardinals: Sex abuse doesn't top cardinals' agenda -- literally.
[Tom Doyle is a priest, canon lawyer, addictions therapist and long-time supporter of justice and compassion for clergy sex abuse victims.]
"The Emperor's Clothes" We
"The Emperor's Clothes"
We need to stop giving these patriarchal poser/misfits legitimacy and so much attention.
Once again it is NCR and Mr.
Once again it is NCR and Mr. Doyle that are so radically out of touch. The Gospel does not change to suit "modern" attitudes in morality, etc. The Church has a constant and unchanging call to repentance. The graying of Catholic "progressives" is upon you and there is no reason to think you will survive. Liberal orders have no vocations and therefore no future. It's time to realize you have already left the Church. You keep waiting for a "Pope Bernardin". Well, he is not coming. The next one will continue to confirm his brethren in the faith as did his predecessors.
AND MILLIONS OF Catholics
AND MILLIONS OF Catholics will keep leaving the church. Yes, it is all very simple.
"The Gospel does not change
"The Gospel does not change to suit "modern" attitudes in morality, etc." So you're saying that the Gospel actually supports the silence and attitude that perpetuates the sexual abuse of children by clergy. Jesus would be very surprised to hear that.
"The Gospel does not change
"The Gospel does not change to suit 'modern' attitudes in morality, etc."
True enough.
But how we apply the gospel message to changing times must change. There is much about life not addressed in the gospels, yet we are challenged by our Christian faith to deal with such challenges. Jesus challenged the religious authorities of his day and place about their interpretation and application of sacred scripture. Are you not prepared to do the same? Life is not static. Law may be black and white, but life is anything but.
"The Church has a constant and unchanging call to repentance."
Debatable. While Jesus instructed the sinner to sin no more, the Lord also told his listeners to forgive indefinitely, i.e., without limit. We know from human psychology (itself a product of God's creation) that the act of forgiving benefits the one doing the forgiving, not necessarily (or at all) the person being forgiven. We know from the three parables in Luke 15 that it is God, not man, who takes the initiative to bring back the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost sons --- unrepentant sons at that!!! Jesus would not ask his followers to do what God would not be prepared to do. This unconditional love --- our eternal salvation --- constitutes the Good News, i.e., the Gospel message. Jesus knew human psychology and, by word and example, taught us in a very real way how to save us from ourselves by following God's two greatest commandments, love God and love neighbor. All other laws ultimately stem from these two commands.
As for the rest of your comments, feel free to vent your feelings of frustration with the reality of change in the Church of Rome, papal and episcopal attempts to stifle such developments notwithstanding.
Change is not just coming.
It's already here and will continue.
Tim, by saying that 'The
Tim, by saying that 'The Gospel does not change to suit "modern" attitudes in morality, etc.' are you saying that sexually abusing children is OK and that church coverups of such activity are OK? That is, after all, the "modern" attitude in morality that we are talking about here.
If that's what you are saying, then you are the one who is out of touch.
Maybe sir, it is you who are
Maybe sir, it is you who are out of touch. The Gospel, indeed, does not change, but that does not mean it's interpretation is exhausted. Only fundamentalist believe that it is. Secondly, Fr. Doyle's comments are appropriate and are striking examples of how the hierarchy of the Church wants to turn a blind eye to the harm it has done to our most precious ones-children! They have failed to serve the Church in a Christ-like manner. They have failed to listen to the needs of the people and respond properly and timely. The need is to defend and protect our children. The Jesus of the Gospels responded to the needs of the people when the Jewish hierarchy was basically oppressive and for itself! That is what we have today, a hierarchy that is nothing more than the Pharisees and Scribes who demand forgiveness when they have themselves have failed in this department. It is time for the Catholic Church to wake up and get with the program before it is too late! It needs to end the Child-Abuse that has destroyed so many lives. It needs to be transparent and humble enough to acquire the talent and service other Catholics whose expertise can help in healing this infected sore. Sir you tell me where in the Gospels where it is okay to allow such evil acts to prevail. In fact, it is the opposite. Jesus warns about the abuse of our most vulnerable (Mark 10:13-16)-children-it is a passage that was meant for the Shepherds of the Church. The Church has prayed, now is time for responsible action on the part of it's leadership!
THE EVIL WITHIN
THE EVIL WITHIN
The church has lost much credibility in its mishandling of its sexual abuse problems.
It certainly can't help other "victimizing institutions...." until the hierarchy admits that they themselves, the bishops, have been complicit in enabling and covering up this problem for centuries, not decades. Something they have been unable or unwilling to do thus far.
Without action, more words of concern from the pope simply won't be of enough help and talks by individuals with a history like Cardinal William Levada can only make one wonder.
Where is the outrage, where is there any confession of fault? Why the hierarchs haven't broken their arms patting themselves on the back for all that they have supposedly accomplished in the last eight years is beyond me.
Their lack of outrage at the evil that has festered in the institutional church shocking. How can there be no acknowlegement of the systemic failures within this institution? Do the hieraarchs really not recognize it?
Bishop Thomas Paprocki may have the right idea but the wrong target with the Exorcism conference he has organized in Baltimore for these two days (11/12+11/13) before the USCCB meeting opens this coming week.
Enabling sexual predators in their perfidy, covering it up, transferring them to different parishes, dioceses, countries, harassing, threatening and intimidating real victims and their families, denying responsibly and accountability, lacking transparency, filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy in the U.S., viciously opposing statute of limitation reform in every state where it has been proposed, blaming everyone and everything from American society to the New York Times for its failures....yes this is Evil.
BUT THE EVIL IS WITHIN.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/us/13exorcism.html
Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com
These arrogant old
These arrogant old men,dressed in scarlet and wearing red prada shoes and funny pointed hats(all costing a small fortune) have neither the interest nor the courage to deal with the sexual scandals that have rocked the church...until the money runs out and the churches are empty they will not change.....
They behave like medieval princes annointed by some divine right, looking down on the faithful who never give quite enough money and never behave quite properly......
so sad
Amen!
Amen!
Of all the canards that makes
Of all the canards that makes no sense in all this is the claim that celibacy is the problem. No proof of that have ever been offered. The only problem with celibacy is that gave perverts a place to hide. No celibate ever abused a child, and celibacy has never been shown to lead to child sex abuse. If celibacy were the problem then why are the incidences of abuse higher among married Protestant clergy than among celibate Catholic priests?
Yes some members of the hierachy are responsible. They are responsible for letting perverts into our seminaries in the time after Vatican II. They allowed good and faithful candidates to be excluded. So after the apostolic visits of the '90's when some seminaries were completely shut down and others completely reorganized the problem of priestly sexual abuse has dropped dramatically. Today despite unbelievable and welcome scrutiny the incidences of priestly sexual abuse are dramatically lower than those of married Protestant clergy, or public school teachers.
Faithful bishops, priests, and Popes have tackled this problem and the fact that they are succeeding gets little notice. We continue to hear horror stories from the 60's through the 80's when the "spirit" of Vatican II bishops and admission officers held sway. Now that they have been deposed or died off the faithful bishops are righting the ship. God bless them.
I hate to intrude on a good
I hate to intrude on a good ideological rant with facts but contrary to what Kscrawler says, many of the priests in question were the product of Pre Vatican II seminary formation. Just check the dates...
Yes, a certain type of
Yes, a certain type of pre-Vatican II clerical hucksters and their "Benedictine" apologists who'd like to carry us back to the good old days of Clement VII, and who sing the praises of the pope's new coat of arms with the tiara restored.
It really has little to do
It really has little to do with ideology and everything to do with emotional immaturity, narcisism and a lack of boundaries. I am involved wuith counseling and education and I have found such types on both sides of the ideological/theological spectrum. Believe me, we've had our problems with abusers! Is it really reasonable to make all those we disagree with the villains and bad guys, and to assume the villains and bad guys are all people we disagree with? Isn't this, in seed form, what is ultimately behind purges and persecutions? Just a thought.
"[W]hy are the incidences of
"[W]hy are the incidences of abuse higher among married Protestant clergy than among celibate Catholic priests?" Are they? Source, please. Without means of verification, your statement is no more than your personal opinion, and cannot responsibly be offered as fact.
On the other hand it could be
On the other hand it could be that other other Christian Churches were and are more honest about reporting and recording these crimes.
Thus it appears that the catholic churches' numbers are lower
Actually as you can see from
Actually as you can see from these articles the opposite is true. The reporting from the Catholic Church has been better than that from Protestant denominations.
Here is the link:
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
Or if you don't like that then here is one from Newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html
Here you go. Glad to have
Here you go. Glad to have cleared that up for you.
Ok the first link compares Catholic clergy to Protestants and teachers in public schools. This is the summary of the report
"The issue of child sexual molestation is deserving of serious scholarship. Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests."
Here is the link:
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
Or if you don't like that then here is one from Newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html
"No celibate ever abused a
"No celibate ever abused a child," you say. But this is a circular argument. 'Celibate' implies absence of sexual contact, while child abuse IS sexual contact. Thus the abuse has put an end to the celibate state; this is the only way your statement can be construed as true. A prior vow of celibacy and a present state of celibacy are two quite different things.
Uhm, no... "Celibacy" is a
Uhm, no... "Celibacy" is a promise not to get married. Therefore, as ALL unmarried people, priests should not be having sex.
So a LOWER incidence somehow
So a LOWER incidence somehow is the solution. How about the incidences of cover up and using ANY tactic to defend the sinful priests with little thought to their VICTIMS.
It would seem as if you are
It would seem as if you are replying to my post, but that cannot be the case because I never said that a lower incidence was the solution to anything. I was merely reporting that the horror of the crimes and sins committed should still be reported accurately. If you can point out to me where I said that was some sort of a solution, then I'll apologize for it. Since I don't think you can I will accept your apology in advance.
Nor did I ever defend any sort of cover up. All I was and am pointing out is that we need not lie about the extent of the horror. It was bad enough as it was without exageration. Once again your apology is accepted.
What about the horror stories
What about the horror stories that we hear and/or read about from the 1920's, 30's, 40's, and 50's? The fact that such stories exist in large numbers completely undermines your theory that people misinterpreting Vatican II were/are the problem.
Your argument that our statistics are dramatically lower than other groups (Protestant, teachers, etc.) is irrelevant. If we have a systemic problem in our Church, then we need to fix it, and the evidence confirms that we do.
www.bishopaccountability.org
Would Jesus have accepted "well, at least we're not as awful as the Gentiles" from his disciples? Doubtful.
You are correct that celibacy does not cause pedophilia in a well-adjusted, sexually mature person. However, an all-celibate environment does more than simply "give perverts a place to hide." It attracts sexually immature, maladjusted individuals. Furthermore, it creates a mystique among the laity and the clergy that celibate individuals are "more special" than "regular" people and that they are less likely to do anything wrong, which makes parents and children alike much more trusting, allowing an abuser to reach more victims. Additionally, the all-celibate environment ensures that a priest-abuser's superiors (most likely) are not parents. The perspective of actual, literal parents (not figurative parents, as the clergy are supposed to act, and many of them do, for better or worse) is crucial in dealing with crimes against children.
As to the graying of the Vatican II movement? You must be looking in the wrong places. There are plenty of us young folks sticking around.
I sometimes think there is
I sometimes think there is another way in which mandatory celibacy contributes to the problem: since the celibacy is promised in a vow to God, every sexual act is a breaking of the vow and a very serious sin. Thus, in an immature person, the barrier becomes blurred between what for most people are harmless or easily forgiveable sexual experiences, and totally destructive and exploitative deeds. The ultimate relativism, where child-rape and intimate kissing between adult friends are taken as equivalent breaches of the code.
I don't know what the mental health professionals say about this, and if I am wrong will be glad to accept the results of their research.
Kscrawler, you misunderstand
Kscrawler, you misunderstand what Fr. Doyle is saying. Celibacy by itself doesn't cause pedophilia, but the clerical culture, in which pedophilia has thrived, is so aloof from the the problems and understanding of regular people that clerics who advance in it live in denial and are unable to deal with this problem.
Many of your other assertions are absurd. At the top of the list is your assertion that sexual abuse did not become a problem until Vatican II. Many of the most notorious pedophiles, including Fr. Maciel, got started long before Vatican II.
Good couple of catches,
Good couple of catches, Cashelguy. Another thing Kscrawler either misconstrued or simply omitted is that the sexual abuse scandal/crisis is not simply a thing caused by priests. The scandal/crisis continues because those with jurisdictional responsibility and powers caused it and cause it to continue. It's the higher-ups who are the true perpetrators of loss of respect for the institutional church and its official representatives.
My reaction to this 11/19 papal action is complex: a)too little; too late b)is it even possbile that, in one day, personal/collective transformation can take place? c)I hope that Fr. Doyle's darker prognosis doesn't come about; it'd be nice to hear something concrete, real, and truly pastoral for a change. I'm not putting any bets on it though.
If you are right then why
If you are right then why have the incidences of abuse dropped off so dramatically since 1980?
1) We will not know for
1) We will not know for another 10-20 years what the rates are from say 1980-1990. Even if they have gone down, as long as we keep the same hierarchical paradigm with little or no lay involvement in monitoring the behavior of the clergy, future generations of young children will be doomed to the same fate as the bishops settle back into their old bad habits.
2) We have no idea what the situation is in the 3rd world where there is not an aggressive media presence and the police and prosecutors can be easily bought off. One thing that is clear at the Bishop Accountability web site is that a growing percentage of newly discovered pedophile priests are rental priests being foisted upon us by 3rd world bishops, some of whom are likely trying to move them out of their own diocese while picking up some cash in the process.
Most victims take decades to
Most victims take decades to come forward. Of course totals will be less for more recent decades.
I never said that child abuse
I never said that child abuse did not become a problem until after Vatican II, but the incidences of it spiked after Vatican II and have dropped off considerably since the apostolic visitation and the cleaning of the garbage out of our seminaries in the '90's. There have always been, and always will be sinners in the Church. If you think I'm wrong about this read the book, "Goodby Good Men", to understand how good candidates for the priesthood were systematically weeded out in the post Vatican II seminaries.
Below is a link on the John Jay report I used for my post.
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/PriestAbuseScandal.htm
Here is a quote from the link above:
"The distribution of reported cases by the year the abuse is alleged to have occurred or begun shows a peak in the year 1970. However, considering the duration of some repeated abusive acts, more abuse occurred in the 1970s than any other decade, peaking in 1980"
Operative word is reported
Operative word is reported abuse. Far more abuse victims don't report and many take decades to come to the point where they can report.
Celibacy is a tricky issue
Celibacy is a tricky issue when looking at the Catholic sex abuse crisis. Yes child sexual abuse occurs in all segments of society, but one must look at the role celibacy plays in the decision to enter the seminary- from my experience with Catholic priests, I know that many were attracted to the priesthood because it offers them a way to serve while at the same time sublimating the sexual desires that they feel ashamed of and disgusted by. I think this is tragic and unbelievably sad. So yes, shame and guilt about sexuality does factor into the decision to be celibate, and therefore celibacy must be considered when trying to understand the Catholic child sexual abuse problem. So it may not be celibacy per se that is related to the problem, but who celibacy attracts.
Regarding "faithful bishops, priests and Popes have tackled this problem". Surely you must be confused. How do you define "tackling this problem"? Yes, the bishops got their public relations going in 2002, but only in response to massive media scrutiny and scandal and lawsuits. They had to do something. So they held a meeting in Dallas, put together a charter for the protection of young people, instituted safe environment plans. All well and good for the future, but what about the past and present? You do realize that 2/3 of the serving bishops in 2002 were found to have shielded, protected and shuffled around sexually abusing priests, right? This is criminal behavior, plain and simple, done, as the Irish bishops admitted publicly, to avoid scandal and protect their wealth and assets from civil suits. Did any of them admit to their role in hiding criminals from the justice system? Did any of them admit to having parents and sexually abused children sign oaths of secrecy? Did any of them turn over lists of sexually abusing priests to civil authorities? Did any of them cease fighting victims and their families in court? Did any of them resign? (yes, one did- Cardinal Law, but he was immediately given safe harbour in the Vatican where he heads a basilica and receives a large salary).
In other words, they haven't "tackled the problem". They have done pr. There are many, many criminal bishops at work still across the world, and many, many sexually abusing priests still at large and still active in the church. And they continue to attack and fight victims who simply seek some compensation for the very damaging abuse they suffered. This is not "tackling the problem".
"If celibacy were the problem
"If celibacy were the problem then why are the incidences of abuse higher among married Protestant clergy than among celibate Catholic priests?"
This is a defamation which cannot be supported with any facts whatsoever. There is no evidence child abuse cases amongst Protestant clergy even begin to approache what has come to light in recent decades ,and what lawyers for sex abuse victims expect remains buried in diocesan chancery archives the world over. Not to mention the records in the Vatican going back centuries.
This laughable claim quoted above is, however, a puny effort to minimize the enormity of clerical crimes and the obstruction of justice committed in the Roman Church up and down the line of authority from the pope himself to the smallest parish. It may very well constitute the most egregious example of institutionalized corruption and cover-up in western history.
The time has arrived to dump the college of cardinals and force Benedict's abdication. They are both anachronisms.
So you think I made up the
So you think I made up the information about abuse by priests versus ministers below are two links supporting my claim. I now look to you to support your claim that "There is no evidence child abuse cases amongst Protestant clergy even begin to approache what has come to light in recent decades"
Ok the first link compares Catholic clergy to Protestants and teachers in public schools. This is the summary of the report
"The issue of child sexual molestation is deserving of serious scholarship. Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests."
Here is the link:
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
Or if you don't like that then here is one from Newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html
In lieu of any evidence to prove me wrong I accept your apology in advance. No need to thank me.
There is empriacl research
There is empriacl research which shows that Catholic clergy are no worse than others. That is, of course, not good enough - any is too much. But why is ther none of the same crusading zeal about the other99.6% of abuse - might that lead in uncomfortable directions like fingering state school teachers or mummy's latest serial boyfriend?
And as for Doyle's need to 'listen to the psychologists and psychiatrists', didn't their pseudo-worldly freudian insouciance (cf.Kinsey) mislead bishops and others into taking a soft line?
If we had taken seriously the traditional teaching about the objectivity of moral norms we'd all be much better off.
kscrawler, You have just
kscrawler, You have just exposed yourself as an apologist. You believe all you have to do is throw some money in the collection plate every Sunday and your saved. You don't want to live in the real world do you ? Do you actually follow letter for letter , word for word what the church tells you to do? I used to ,but not anymore. If you where brave enough to look into the history of the church from unbiased sources you would not like what you see or read. Sexual abuse and priestly rape has gone on for as long as the church has called itself Catholic. The church used fear of eternal damnation to keep their wicked little secrets quiet. That won't work anymore. In the middle ages very few people were educated except royalty or religious. The modern communications of today can spread news around the world in seconds not decades or even centuries.If the hiarchy can lie about the sexual abuse how can you believe anything else they try telling you? For the record I was molested when I was 12 by an older boy who was being mentered by the local priest . The local priest was having sexual affairs with several young ladies from the parish and fathered several of one ladies children besides stealing the parishes money for himself. the boy who molested me went to the seminary and is now a priest who after many diocesan transfers is a chaplain in the military. I feel sorry for you for not wanting to open your eyes and see things as they really are.
"You believe all you have to
"You believe all you have to do is throw some money in the collection plate every Sunday and your saved"
Please defend that statement and show from anything I have ever posted on here that I believe that to be true. Are you familiar with the term "projection"?
"Do you actually follow letter for letter , word for word what the church tells you to do?"
Of course not, but I try to, and when I fall short I repent and try again. I don't decide that I know better than what Christ has taught through his church. I try and fail, repent and try again.
"If you where brave enough to look into the history of the church from unbiased sources you would not like what you see or read. "
I am over 60 years old I have a degree in Renaissance and Reformation History, and am an amateur historian. I suspect my reading of, and knowledge of Church history is better than average. Now please explain why you feel it's ok to accuse me of cowardice?
Now I am sorry for the pain you endured as a child. In fact I'm sorry because it appears that it has so wounded you that you are actually the victim of what you accuse me of when you said, "I feel sorry for you for not wanting to open your eyes and see things as they really are."
I have no illusions about their not being sinners in the clergy. It has always been true, and will always be true. But neither do I believe that all are sexual predators, that all bishops cover up abuse, or that it's part of the institutional plan of the hierarchy. It is horrible enough that it need not be exaggerated beyond what it really is. I have cited in several posts evidence of what I believe to be the case. It is sadly, you that is in such pain that looking at the issue objectively has become impossible. I understand that and will keep you and your pain in my prayers.
"No celibate ever abused a
"No celibate ever abused a child, and celibacy has never been shown to lead to child sex abuse. "
Say what?
Very few members of the Roman
Very few members of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy know how to listen. This begins with the Pope. Their minds, ears and hearts have been closed to new ideas. They really are not interested in listening and thus, the Church continue to rot at its' core. Women and glbt human beings have never been the subjects of the "listening process" in The Church. The imperial system of top down leadership has failed every Catholic and it only continues with the same old status quo. They are incapable of listening because they are self-absorbed and obsessed with the idea of power. Tom Doyle has written a powerful article here and I salute him. Yes, the Pope and the Cardinals have indeed betrayed the real Church, but add to that list all of the bishops. Shameful.
The pope et al are very good
The pope et al are very good at listening --- to those who tell them what they want to hear! Otherwise, nein, nyet, no, au wiedersehen, dumbos.
While I agree with most of
While I agree with most of the statements in this article, and the issue that time has come for the Holy Father to face the reality of today's clergy, and the atrocious acts against the inocent, I don't agree with the statement on celibacy. Celibacy has nothing to do with the crimes and immoral actions of some priests. Celibacy is the scapegoat! Please don't fall in that trap. The problem is that our modern priests, and seminaries, (by modern I mean within the last one hundred or two hundred years), have totally forgotten what is the mission, the vocation and the spiritual life of a priest. They all have forgotten what it takes to be a priest. It is so simple and yet so difficult to understand. While I am not going to enter into the debate of what it means to be celibate or why the requirement, or what it does for the spiritual growth of that one who has been given the Grace to take care of the our Church, the people, I urge all my brothers and sisters to pray, meditate, and contemplate about it.
A celibate clergy attracts
A celibate clergy attracts those who wish to hide their homosexuality. If celibacy were optional, and IF we had LGBTQ and female priests wouldn't the true pedophiles look elsewhere to ply their trade? Gay boys and men are obviously attracted to the Church, but if those boys and men were NOT told that their orientation is "intrinsically evil", perhaps they might become good LGBTQ priests and not seek out the young boys and girls who are such easy prey. Imagine a church where 10% (or so)of the students at St. Pious High School who ARE LGBTQ would see healthy role models living an open life and demonstrating in their everyday lives that they are part of the human family who get the same respect and support as any other person.
Seminaries have deteriorated
Seminaries have deteriorated into little more than sanctuaries of refuge for sociopathic misfits and the mentally or emotionally dyfunctional. Close them and return to an apprentice-style of training for lay men and women which could be carried out in any parish.
The "career" cleric thoroughly grounded in canon law, theology,scripture, and philosophy can always be selected from the more educated middle aged to older men and women in specialized "graduate" training facilities. These carefully trained experts would move up a career ladder leading to consideration for the episcopate. They are chosen from the more promising apprentice- presbyters who wish to move up more quickly. Just as members of any other profession do now.
I hardly consider myself a
I hardly consider myself a "sociopathic misfit". The seminaries are very good at screening people. If I wanted a "career" like so many of you on here see it, I wouldn't have given up everything I had, like my job. Let's face it most Catholics can't even name their own bishop. Do you honestly think that we all quit or jobs to pursue some imaginary career that no one can even identify?
“Celibacy has nothing to do
“Celibacy has nothing to do with the crimes and immoral actions of some priests. Celibacy is the scapegoat! Please don't fall in that trap. The problem is that our modern priests, and seminaries, (by modern I mean within the last one hundred or two hundred years), have totally forgotten what is the mission, the vocation and the spiritual life of a priest. They all have forgotten what it takes to be a priest. It is so simple and yet so difficult to understand.”
I’m afraid, my friend, you have fallen into the same trap as have so many, who have thought themselves, discerners of the proper techniques of priestly or religious formation. That trap was, is, and will continue to be, “one size fits all.”
Grace builds on nature, not the other way around.
Young men attempting to form themselves according to an accepted pattern of prescribed clerical behavior, by accepting pieties for theology, public or private devotions for sanctity, social involvement as prayer, obedience to unsound directives as virtue, chastity as holiness, are headed for a personal train wreck somewhere down the track.
As the priest progresses from station the station, down the track of life, he will discover that an artificial clerical life style instilled in the formation is indeed a weak rail to lean against for the support needed to survive.
Once the realization become internalized that the cult practices he freely submitted to no longer serve to resolve doubts, strengthen in times of adversity, or satisfy an inner need for sustenance and strength, trouble lies ahead.
Spiritual formation does not come all scripted out, ready for wear, just follow the simple instructions. Yet, such has been the belief. It is a systemic, institutional failure that has wrought much personal and social damage.
Jesus proscribed the clerical practices of the priests of his day. “Do what they say; but do not follow their example.”
Who else is tired of
Who else is tired of seminarian bashing?
"....people whose souls have
"....people whose souls have been shredded." You can't get more succinct than Doyle's description of the state of an abuse victim.
AMEN!
AMEN!
'DITTO" THIS COMMENTARY IS
'DITTO" THIS COMMENTARY IS THE BEST TO DATE REGARDING THE ISSUE!
Fr. Doyle is right on. Even
Fr. Doyle is right on. Even the "magical hysteriam" can't refute his logic, other than try and defrock him. Thank God the Holy Spirit is sheding its light on the hiprocracy of the hierarchy.
Speaking of useless words...!
Speaking of useless words...! If any good is to come from the sex abuse scandal...and I PRAY it does...maybe it'll be less bloviating by cynical clergy! Why become a priest and be part of the church if the church makes you so unhappy. It doesn't help! To same most priests are immature is a sweeping generalization. I dare say there are plenty of immature men in other professions. In some cases bishops acted on the advice of healthcare professionals who claimed "Father could be made better." We know that to be untrue. It also should be noted that B16 has done far more than his charismatic and self-centered predecessor, who preferred to bury his head in the sand for more photo ops. Much work lies ahead, but much good work has begun. To say B16 is ignorant of the complexities is also unfair. History reminds us of papacies that were far from prayer and reflection. Growing closer to God is never a bad thing. Indeed the church needs to get back on track, repair the damage, seek justice and make amends. Victims need to heal and forgive too. Cynicism and sarcasm will not help the victims at all, just as capital punishment doesn't deter crime. I'd say you need to listen too...to a loving God who called you to minister the Good News! Let's have some!
Hi. My name's Kent Dean.
Hi. My name's Kent Dean. What's yours?
These eminent worthies
These eminent worthies commence their careers at an age when most other professionals retire, and do so within a closed, self-referential world convinced of its uttermost importance but completely out of touch with a reality that is hardly aware of their semi-comatose existence. One can hardly expect them to hear, let alone listen to a clamoring world - even if supplied with state-of-the-art hearing aids.
You need to heal from your
You need to heal from your hatred.
Thomas P. Doyle I applaud
Thomas P. Doyle I applaud you, but I have to ask, if you really believe that nothing useful will come out of this meeting, then why in the world did you write this, and why do you continue to hammer away at this problem? Surely something will come out of this, even if what we see is more of the same. That will be one more piece of evidence that these guys do not do anything about the problem because, as you put it, they are the problem. Nothing about the sex abuse gets done because these are the very ones who covered it up, or at least the ones who are powerful. Because the other underlings just follow suit. So it is safe to assume that the ones who caused the problem are still very much in charge. Be patient! No one lives forever!
You are right JayB -"So it is
You are right JayB -"So it is safe to assume that the ones who caused the problem are still very much in charge." However, in a curious way, so are we, and we continue to allow them, facilitate their continuity. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea on how to "fire" them and "transform" or "renew" our church. It's also a momentous job that requires many. I just hope and pray that the NEEDED reform and renewal does happen and that the history of our church which really resides in the heart of Jesus can reflect with joy and pride that "we did it" and that it didn't just happen...or not.
Is it your belief that
Is it your belief that nothing has changed. There are large number of faithful bishops who have been appointed since the scandals peak that have done a marvelous job under immense scrutiny. To ignore their work is patently unfair.
And what's your take on the
And what's your take on the Easter Bunny?
Well said! The pope,
Well said! The pope, cardinals, and bishops can pray 24/7, but, until they admit that the heirarchy has serious problems and act to make significant changes, nothing will change. Ben Franklin said it best: "God helps those who help themselves."
Excellent! This commentary
Excellent! This commentary has to be required reading for all the bishops, cardinals and the pope, himself.
I am a lifelong practicing
I am a lifelong practicing Roman Catholic. I am now a member of parish in Kirkwood, Missouri. I have not been a victim of abuse.
I have seen the efforts of my Church to deal with victims of abuse by priests and I don’t see the matter being handled in the way in which I was brought up in my faith. The examples of selflessness, compassion and dedication to the Gospels which I have experienced throughout my life in the Church are inconsistent with what continues to be a serious threat to the continued existence of the Roman Catholic Church as a faithful expression of the Gospels of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Roman Catholic Church efforts to reconcile with its victims of sexual abuse are failing. The failure has been because of a lack of willingness upon the part of Church leaders to simply ask, humbly and contritely, for forgiveness from those which they have harmed. It is incomprehensible to any adherent to a faith which professes to be a true expression of the Gospels of Jesus Christ that someone who has harmed another would not seek to reconcile themselves to that fellow Church member and God by asking forgiveness. The leadership in the Roman Catholic Church needs a refresher course on the Sacrament of Reconciliation (formerly Penance).
Roman Catholic Sacraments are outward signs instituted by Christ to give grace. The Sacraments are rooted in the Gospels, and in the case of Reconciliation, in the role of a priest as an intermediary. Christ told the Apostles what they bind and unbind on earth shall be bound and unbound in heaven; it is in this teaching that the Church has its roots for the role of the priest as intermediary for our seeking temporal repair for sins against God. The process is one whereby a sinner may reconcile themselves with God and restore themselves to God’s grace.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation has three essential parts; the penitent forms the proper mindset acknowledging they have done wrong against God, “confessing” sins before a priest and, requesting and obtaining absolution from the priest. The Roman Catholic Church has an obligation to set itself right by its victims in order to remain a true expression of the Gospels of Jesus Christ. In the matter of abuse victims, the roles are reversed. It is the Church through its leaders, and if necessary its members, which must form the proper mindset and acknowledge its wrongdoing. It is the Church through its leaders, and if necessary its members, which must confess its sins to those which it has harmed. It is the Church through its leaders, and if necessary its members, which must request and obtain absolution from those which it has harmed.
No one can know how forgiveness for the sins of the Church would look but, the first step is to ask. If Church leaders will not do so, then it falls to members to do so if the Roman Catholic Church is to remain a true expression of the Gospels of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you Father Doyle. At
Thank you Father Doyle. At this point, its all about damage control and appearances
Finally someone telling it
Finally someone telling it like it is! It's always about power & money. If only the pope, bishops, & cardinals would "listen" & follow Doyle's advice, we would then be able to begin the healing, the suffering & wrong that has been done to so many people. It is time again to reopen the windows & let the Spirit in!
The other victims in this
The other victims in this tragedy are the many faithful, good priests who daily do the work of the Church. How must they feel as they venture out in their priestly clothing? Do they feel eyes of derision upon them? Are they self conscious of every move they make, i.e., can they smile, give a hug to someone, be friendly?
Yes, the souless perpetrators have done their worst.
How can this ever be undone? It can't. Will our Church lose all credibility? I pray it doesn't.
The answer is "yes" to your
The answer is "yes" to your questions, except "NO" this can not be undone. I can no more imagine a "recovery" any more than my grandfather could believe we went to the moon. All a hoax, he said.
Peggy, you raise a very good
Peggy, you raise a very good point, and one that has concerned me for the past 8 years since the scandal broke. I believe that part of this problem that you describe is due to the very individuals [priests, bishops, cardinals, pope] that we share a concern about not acting when they had the chance. Certainly, these 'good' priests were aware of what their brothers in the Lord were doing when molesting kids. They chose to turn a blind eye to what was going on, probably in the name of brotherly loyalty. That's when the cancer metastasized and spread throughout the institutional church. The physicians [bishops and cardinals] failed to administer the appropriate chemotherapy, and as a result the cancer was institutionalized and became systemic. Unfortunately for the patient, even the most radical surgery and radiation will not eradicate the disease. We must let go of this patient and allow him to pass on. The only real solution is to convene a General Assembly of the People of God and allow the Spirit to show us the new direction.
New wine in new wineskins! "Let the dead bury their own dead." This is the opportunity provided by the Lord for rebirth in the Spirit of Jesus and not the spirit of Rome. Alleluia!
This article is a virtual cry
This article is a virtual cry of dispair by someone who has been hurt by the sexual abuse crisis in a manner that can be compared only to an actual victim.
When one experiences such com-passion with so many victims, in the intimate realities of their abuse and degradation as individuals it must be almost unbearable.
This pain is compounded by his faith, his personal identification with and intrinsic love for the very "company of Jesus" responsible for the abuse. Worse,he understands the state of that "company" which made it possible as well as its single minded, remorse deprived drive to restore its persona rather than its Person. That persona and its "infrastructure" are the causal imperatives and conditions which made the abuse possible and which impel inevitably towards repetition rather than reform and renewal.
Father Doyle, please keep the faith, the anger and the cause.
to "dennism": What evidence
to "dennism":
What evidence do you have that "the company of Jesus" is responsible for the sexual abuse of children? Wow! Be careful with your accusations based on your personal ideology. God is the Judge, and I doubt He asked you for help. Jesuits are not more or less to blame than any other Order, or secular priest, or member of the Hierarchy, or the lay people which remained silent in fear of retribution for so long.
My dear Raquel, you
My dear Raquel, you misunderstood what dennism was saying. He was not referring to the Jesuits as the "Company of Jesus" being responsible for the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. He was talking about those who are supposed to be in the company of Jesus: priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes.
I think he is perfectly correct when he refers to the infinite and intimate betrayal this has been to ALL followers of Jesus: all of those in the company of Jesus. The sexual abuse of kids and the coverup by Roman Catholic church authorities strips that organization of any identity with Jesus. That particular institutional church makes a mockery of everything that Jesus tried to show us. That Roman Catholic Church is no more Christian than any ATHEISTIC group.
Once again, I admire and tremendously respect the frankness, compassion, and courage of Fr. Tom Doyle, OP [Dominican]. How he is able to continue to remain in the Roman Catholic Church amazes me when one considers how anti-Christ it has become. I believe he is an honorable man and is apparently remaining with that institution out of a sense of following his conscience. Whatever the reason, I admire his dedication to Jesus.
Nicely stated Romano. I
Nicely stated Romano. I would only add that for priests of integrity, like Tom Doyle, the betrayal of their calling must be a very difficult thing to swallow. The betrayal by their fellow priests is bad enough, but the enabling behavior of their bishops must hit even harder. It would be similar to our Marine General Staff hiding and then promoting a bunch of proven deserters to their ranks.
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